When did Doom Metal/Black Metal and the like become "hip" and why?

I mean there's a distinction to be made between "indie kid" and "hipster".

also i wouldn't call myself an indie kid! i may be deluded but i wouldn't call myself an indie kid.

I got into metal after getting into free jazz.

When I listen to Death Metal, I feel like I'm engaging more often with a sonic tradition that arose from the earth primordial to send early man into spiritual convulsions around his campfire.

I don't know too much black metal, but it only rarely has done anything like that for me. Black metal often seems to come from the same place as open mic nights and burlesque shows. At the moment, I can't why I feel this way.

"I can't explain". (It will require further listening and thought)

Renfests and shit, you know?

LJ is an indie almost adult

at a certain point i think we just have to accept that in the internet era all kinds of ppl like all kinds of shit and quit worrying about "hipsters" or whoever invading whatever musical clubhouses we've built for ourselves.

― eight woofers in the trunk sb'n down the block (M@tt He1ges0n),

yes but im not worried about hipsters invading clubhouses (j0hn and co think im invading their clubhouse anyway lol) im just asking why do people think like this.

because people like clubhouses?

and its not just doom/drone/BM it's for any subgenre that's become hip and why haven't others become hip.
But obviously hip is subjective. These genres are hip in some circles and not others. Dragonforce and girly goth metal like Nightwish are hip amongst some people but probably not with critics so much.

oh and i see j0hn replied on the old thread so I shall repost his answer here

i know DM was the most commercially successful form of extreme metal in the states in the early 90s, it's basically the bread and butter metal for a lot of people after the thrash generation got old ;), but was it ever actually hip? I dont mean hip as in elite circles of demo tape traders in the late 80s but hip as in actual hipsters like the NY hipster types who are into BM?

well, famously, Peel was into grind. thurston moore and some others IIRC were namechecking DM a little, I think moore's been pretty interested in "extreme" metal from pretty early on. and some of these death metal guitarists are total tone merchants, it's one of the reasons I'm a death metal partisan - there's plenty of black metal guitarists who get amazing tone of course but there's also the sort of autopilot Boss distortion into Boss delay black metal sound that just bores me to tears - and there've always been some from-hipper-circles ppl goin "seven churches is fucking amazing." but anyway yeah - I mean, getting "hip" used to take a lot more digging, but within some hip circles I think there were plenty of artsy dudes seeking out Eaten Back to Life and Mental Funeral and sarcofago or even krisiun and so on.

― a full circle lol (J0hn D.), Friday, 11 December 2009 17:55 (53 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hah, xpost re: grind

I have a theory. Black metal became hip because the early 90s version of it had a punk rockness to it; it was crude, poorly recorded, 123go stuff. This appeals to the lazy, lo-fi, one-take side of indie rock people. Death metal, on the other hand, is intricate, difficult music, frequently of great precision - it's hard work and sounds like it. This puts off indie rock people, who are drawn to sonic casualness, whether real or feigned.

― neither good nor bad, just a kid like you (unperson), Friday, December 11, 2009 6:05 PM (44 minutes ago) Bookmark

for the most part, yeah. and I'd say this goes for grind too. critical acceptance, crossover appeal with noize dudes and punx/indie folks for the exact same reasons.

but what's weird is that there's also plenty of crude death metal that doesn't get written about. something like autopsy hits a lot of the same buttons, imo.

maybe because this isn't really the death metal norm? (i.e. there's nobody at darkthrone's level that sounds as punk they do in the death metal world)

...just waiting for someone to come back at me with, "but obituary are punk as fuck!"

and in a way, yeah they are. but you know what I mean.

...I hope?

xpost

j0hn & pfunkboy yeah it's a good discussion, it's more i have a reaction to the word "hipster" anymore...

i mean...jeez though...this goes back a ways too, though...extremer metal and punk have been basically merged since, jesus, like 85-86 in a lot of ways?

so if you think indie rock is an extension of punk, and at least "classic" indie was in the U.S., then isn't this just more of the same?

i dunno - it seems like it isn't that much of a leap from liking Black Flag and hardcore or punk with the sped-up polka beat to liking death metal.

maybe we're just too old?

xpost:

yes. but the leap to liking darkthrone must be that much easier then, right?

when i was a kid i couldn't even barely understand the difference between why CoC and DRI was "punk" and like Exodus or Kreator was "metal" or whatever

xp - i'm pretty much an amateur/dilettante in a way when it comes to this - which could very well place me in the "hipster" category, though I'm too old, I think, to have ever been an "indie kid" - but stuff like Darkthrone and Immortal to me sound quite similar to Death Metal only with different vocal styles and production values, and I like them in the same way.

For all the leaps from punk to metal and vice versa its funny how metalcore has never been hip. It might be a commercially successful subgenre but it never crossed over as hip to the general public (yeah i know that's a different sort of hip ) like nu-metal did. In the way that disco was huge and seen as naff by loads,hated by critics, but really hip amongst the general public.
Though I am glad metalcore never got as big as nu-metal as its fucking awful mostly.

general public and "hip" are kind of in opposition though.

but stuff can become hip amonst the mass buying general public. Like disco was like I said. I suppose hip and hipster are separate.

linedancing was hip amongst a huge part of the general public and not just the usa either!

Aside appros of nothing:

As an outsider, I'm amused by the amount of genre hair-splitting that goes on among metal fans. Is this funeral doom metal, or drone doom metal? Yuck, you got your brutal death metal in my progressive death metal. The black metal of my youth was so much more fun than this depressive black metal. Screw your factions, lets make blackened death metal. No, you!

How much simpler it all was in the days of mods vs. rockers.

is there really a difference between "hip" and "latest fad" or "flavour of the month"?

i thought we were talking about hipsters and not the general public.

xxpost:

yeah, metal is a lot like electronic music in that respect.

Yuck, you got your brutal death metal in my progressive death metal.

hip vs. hipster is really muddying the waters!

well sarah like most threads we can expand on the subject and go off on different tangents then come back to LOL Immortal eventually.

pretty sure most everyone was talking about hipsters. tho I guess cradle of filth have nu-metal level pull w/teens. (or did at least.)

xxp - yeah, but if we're not clear on what phenomena we're talking about, the resulting discussion could be pretty dysfunctional.

Are we talking about a particular class of "hipsters" that previously were classified as indie kids, or are we talking about people from other "non-mainstream" musical clubhouses getting into metal?

xxp - yeah, but if we're not clear on what phenomena we're talking about, the resulting discussion could be pretty dysfunctional.

it's ilx! Everyone justs posts how they like. Just wait until Geir posts in this thread!

internet democratising everything also means u can effectively exhaust genres more quickly than ever before so to fill the gap ur left hunting round for genres u might have otherwise before disregarded

very true.

you know it is precisely the fact that you all are discussing this that has dampened my nascent enthusiasm for metal, in general.

i ~think~ i might like doom-y stuff in that i like earth and kyuss and whoever (am i doing this right?), but the metal dorks' hyperawareness of OTHER PEOPLE getting into THEIR thing is a huge turn off. esp since it seems like a lot being a true metalhead or non-hipster seems couched in the idea that if you weren't into metal when you were an angry or disaffected teenager, any interest you now have is just a put-on

Plus is anyone going to
http://blackmetaltheory.blogspot.com/

http://www.publicassemblynyc.com/events/view/1148 ?

though democratising might not be the best term - more like being able to download just about everything for free.

tht's the new democracy

xp - gbx - yeah, i think we're in the same boat - i just got over that arriviste stigma and decided to like and express my like for things regardless. If that means I'm a "hipster," I don't care.

sounds like poser talk to me.

(j/k)

i am a poser and i don't care.

metal was soooooo not cool when I was an angsty teen. this was definitely part of the attraction.

yeah ditto, i guess. what strikes me is that you'll encounter the same anti-poser sentiment in, say, hip-hop or noize, but it doesn't seem as thoroughly institutionalized as it is in metal. unsurprising, given extreme metal's historical association with the fringe (satan! murder! drugs!).

when I was an angsty teen, I definitely felt like there was a punk - metal divide, and on the punk side, it was acceptable to like new wave, goth, industrial - but metal was a different clubhouse.

xp alan: exactly. metal is/was a safe place for a v particular kind of teenage (<--- important!) weirdo.

that also was on the football team - from my experience.

If BM and Doom were really hip then why aren't the xx loving hipsters posting here saying how they love it? ;)

lol

Ecuador, you missed a verse:

You need coolin', baby, I'm not foolin',
I'm gonna masturbate into you,
Way down inside honey, you should just be glad your here,

http://www.viceland.com/blogs/en/2010/03/08/not-fit-to-print-transcendental-metal/

We present it to you in its entirety as a stark warning of what happens when you approach the most inherently comical form of metal with absolutely no sense of humor or fun.

Listen to the Muddy song. Don't read it.

we missed the black metal symposium ii
http://blackmetaltheory.blogspot.com/2010/06/black-metal-theory-symposium-ii.html

markers is hosting the 3rd one in 2011 with Metallica playing their new Arena BM album ... And Bandwagons For All in full

oh man so many good times in this thread

contenderizer's slim moon post & slim moon posting here - thanks, thread!

hah, i forgot all about that.

I've heard stories about Prof Scott Wilson. I'm confident that guy is True Metal.

also i wouldn't call myself an indie kid! i may be deluded but i wouldn't call myself an indie kid.

― 102. LJ: British. 5. (acoleuthic),

lol

markers is hosting the 3rd one in 2011 with Metallica playing their new Arena BM album ... And Bandwagons For All in full

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:06 PM (50 minutes ago)

irl smile @ this

All metal has become hip now. I'm convinced of this. Everywhere I go I see metal people.

Nate, it's just you; you have the 666th Sense.

Nate lives in a metal club.

with King Diamond and Joey DeMaio

demo tape limited to 3

jyou have the 666th Sense

irl

[loling implied]

when does the unhip get added to the title?

when they figure out how to give you mod powers on any ilm thread with "metal" in the title ;)

there is probably a better thread to bump than this one but w/e this is the best thing ever http://scrapyardmagazine.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/h-creates-bizarre-marketing-scheme-to.html

Monday, March 23, 2015
H&M Creates Bizarre Marketing Scheme to Sell Punk and Metal Inspired Threads
I spend a lot of time on Twitter, and while much of it fades into the background, this caught my attention.

Apparently, H&M hired a team of people to make metal music, metal logos, band histories and a distro AND post online about the legitimacy of said music. Why? To sell a new line of metal and punk inspired clothes, of course.

But it wasn't enough just to doodle some made up band logos and slap them on some pants. No no, H&M is going whole hog. They created a fake label page that happens to sell all of these bands! Here's the facebook page for "Strong Scene Productions." And their website! Yes, it's supposed to look like that. All of this was created super recently too!

If that wasn't weird enough, there's a bunch of corporate sponsored accounts on Reddit saying that these bands are TOTALLY REAL. While it's not uncommon for major corporations to create accounts on social media to sell stuff, H&Ms dedication seems oddly bizarre and specific.

THEY PAID. H&M PAID to have a song called "Vaginal's Juice Dripping into Cadaverous." By a band called Yvaeh (subtle), a "Malaysian" band. It's like they took a page from Ghost Bath. Only, WEIRDER. This YouTube account was made yesterday, by the way. They PAID to invent fake NSBM bands, LANY and The One. (Although The One is really a band, but no idea if this is the same band or if they're NSBM/Nationalists.) Regardless of everything else weird about this, it is definitely BAD MARKETING tocreat fake racist bands. Bad, H&M. Bad.

I'm not one to be all "METAL SHOULD STAY UNDERGROUND, POSERS!" but I do wonder why H&M didn't pay actual bands. Or just invent fake logos without the elaborate backstory.

the Facebook page is just next level

Wow. The guys behind the campaign aren't idiots though, and clearly know their stuff. Pretty sure H&M never expected to be paying for a mocked-up Xerox demo cover with a gun being inserted into a woman.

Right... so this was an art project of fake bands based on the patches on H&M clothing but nothing actually to do with H&M? Seems like a lot of effort to go to, but it got publicity because of it so worked, I guess. Website is down.

prefer the idea of H&M doing it but that's good too

Mingering Metal Mike

Are you on drugs? We love H&M!

http://youtu.be/0z7sRasK9tM

Some rumours it's one of the guys from Moonsorrow.

http://exclaim.ca/music/article/you_can_finally_own_action_figures_of_sleeps_dopesmoker_dudes