Good Charlotte: Classic or Dud?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (267 of them)

even when i was a little boy, Iron Maiden's sound appealed to me because they had a GROOVE.

― chaki (chaki), Monday, 12 May 2003 15:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm not feeling their funk either, but I got your back on this one Alex. Sure their whole image was kinda goofy in retrospect, but there is to be no disrespect for Maiden, ever. And certainly not from people who wished heavy metal never left the 70s.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 12 May 2003 15:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

Just better than about 99.99 percent of rock bands since 1980

And with that, the considerable burden of credibility was lifted from Chuck's aching shoulders.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 12 May 2003 15:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

>>there is to be no disrespect for Maiden, ever. And certainly not from people who wished heavy metal never left the 70s.<<

The first sentence about really creeps me out, though I hope it's a joke. Either way, I should add that the mythology and operatic vocal bullshit has been done both more rockingly AND more beautifully than Maiden by scores of dark-metal (and other kinds of metal) bands AFTER them, as well. (Including lots and lots of bands -- from Voivod to Guns N Roses to beyond -- that claim Maiden as an *influence*!) So it ain't just the '70s that blows them out of the water, believe me. (Partly, it's just that they're VERY VERY EASY TO IMPROVE ON.)

― chuck, Monday, 12 May 2003 16:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

>>The first sentence about really creeps me out,<<<

I meant "the first sentence above." (I.E. Anybody who thinks that there's ANY music that I'm not allowed to disrespect is, uh, wrong.)

― chuck, Monday, 12 May 2003 16:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

Alex, thanks to your earlier post I can't get "Look Away" by Chicago out of my head. I doubt this was your intention.

And Chuck, I don't know why you decided that because I don't like certain honky voices (Rob "Gangsta Barker" Aston, Justin "Urkel Soul" Timberlake) I'm incapable of finding the funk.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 12 May 2003 16:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

Partly, it's just that they're VERY VERY EASY TO IMPROVE ON.

So Maiden as a starter band if you like? Hm...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 May 2003 16:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

Either way, I should add that the mythology and operatic vocal bullshit

You've obviously never listened to the first two Maiden albums (pre-Bruce). I'm not saying you'd like them, but they have fuck-all to do with mythology or operatic vox.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 12 May 2003 17:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

Certainly there are lots of bad things to say about Iron Maiden (Bruce's vocals, the bad lyrics, the Eddie gimmick, some filler material on even their best albums, the post-'87 albums and the endless ripoff reissues and live cds) but at the end of the day they're in the same league as AC/DC, the Ramones and Motörhead: goofy and dated, but essentially beyond criticism in the most benign way possible.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 12 May 2003 18:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

The biggest problem with Iron Maiden is the way the instruments are mixed; there's too much bass and vocals and not enough anything else. I think their best moments are pretty spectacular though.

― Kris (aqueduct), Monday, 12 May 2003 18:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

Except that AC/DC, the Ramones, and Motorhead (all of whom have made some bad records, by the way, and all of whom are really only beyond criticism to those who choose not to criticise them) at least all played rock'n'roll music. You know, with a backbeat and stuff.

― chuck, Monday, 12 May 2003 18:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

>>but essentially beyond criticism in the most benign way possible<<

No. One's. Safe. (Honestly, that's a really ridiculous claim to make.)

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Monday, 12 May 2003 18:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

Certainly there are lots of bad things to say about Iron Maiden.......the Eddie gimmick

http://www.nolifetilmetal.com/Images/eddieanimated.gif

WHHAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTT???????

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 12 May 2003 18:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh OK, you're right Kris, Maiden records are mixed abjectly into this weird ultra-lite sound. And, yes, their lyrics were bad. In fact, they're more nostalgia than anything. B-b-but "Hallowed Be Thy Name"! "Flight Of Icarus"! "Aces High"! Actually they're a very Hongro band for me. To get into them now I need to listen just for the (vocal and guitar) melodies (which really were pretty classic much of the time) and overlook other stuff like the weak sound/production or the lyrics. Eddie - maybe the best thing about them at the end of the day - and the voice were both classic though.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 12 May 2003 18:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

(This whole 'funk' thing does seem a bit of a red herring though.)

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 12 May 2003 18:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

thats just my thing.

― chaki (chaki), Monday, 12 May 2003 18:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

BTW I saw the "Blow My Fuse" video on the Power Hour a week or two ago. It's not that great.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

maiden is still selling out arenas.

― chaki (chaki), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

They're playing with Motorhead in about a month. AND I'm going. AND I'm going to buy a fuckin' t-shirt, so you may verily bite me!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

Me? I saw Motorhead last year.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

alex dont yell at me

― chaki (chaki), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

I didn't yell at you, Chaki.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

ok ::stops crying::

― chaki (chaki), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

http://www.nolifetilmetal.com/Images/edanim.gif

"OH FOR GOD'S SAKE, BE A MAN!"

― Eddie (vassifer), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm more of a man than any of you muthafuckas, it's so pathetic. Except I forgot to buy tix to the concert. I'm always doing that. And even though I am reminded, right now, to see if it's sold out, I'm still not going to look. Cos I'm fucking hardcore like that.

― Ally (mlescaut), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

Iron Maiden and Anthrax were the only metal band I liked as a kid, mostly for the humor and the literary references.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

Don't get me wrong -- there are PLENTY of moments in the Iron Maiden oeuvre that get me shuddering with palpable disdain ("Quest for Fire" and "Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner" primary among them), but their moments of gloriously hoary majesty positively dwarf those moments. If you can't appreciate the unbridled röcktäcity of "Two Minutes to Midnight," "Number of the Beast," "Die With Your Boots On," "The Trooper," "Sanctuary," "Running Free," "Aces High," etc. etc. etc., than I can't help you, but I pity your dull, colorless existence.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 12 May 2003 20:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh yeah, Manowar did it way better, too. (AND they they had Scott Columbus's customized MARC Industries Drums of Death: "the ultimate drum system in the universe -- everything else is junk"!) But I dunno, maybe I *should* go back and check out those first couple Maiden albums, before what's-his-dork joined up. I haven't heard them in eons or more, I'll admit. Maybe Dickinson DID wreck the band Henry-Rollins-style, who knows? But I'm not paying more than a $1 each.

― chuck, Monday, 12 May 2003 21:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

Manowar might be more manly, and louder (and lightyears more rediculous), but their tunes are all so empty, really linear and simple - at least Iron Maiden had some substance to back all those arena anthems up (and enough humour to keep them from making total asses out of themselves). And by all means get those Di'Anno-sung albums, they're the band's best. If those don't convince you, you're beyond hope...

Anthrax have aged very badly by the way, I saw them a few months ago supporting Motorhead and they were just terrible all the way, the only thing I remember was a decent Caught In A Mosh.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 12 May 2003 21:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

>>>Manowar might be more manly, and louder (and lightyears more rediculous), but their tunes are all so empty, really linear and simple - at least Iron Maiden had some substance to back all those arena anthems up<<<

Not gonna say I disagree with this (I really don't care about Manowar one way or another; they just seemed to have a sense of humor that Maiden lacked, which is at least SOMETHING), except to say that the equation of complexness with "substance" is just silly. I mean, the Ramones and AC/DC and Motorhead were, uh, somewhat linear too, right?

― chuck, Monday, 12 May 2003 22:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

No, I'm not referring to Maiden's complexity (which IS overrated, the twin guitar melodies are dazzling but ultimately the songwriting isn't that adventurous), just that their riffs and melodies were really interesting and catchy in a fresh way whereas Manowar (and Running Wild, for example) only had these fairly old, tried-and-tested riffs and blew those up to huge epics.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 12 May 2003 22:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

Does this mean that in 20 years time, there will be a gaggle of over-educated music fans defending Good Charlotte and their schtick (a la Alex in NY's defense of Maiden)?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 12 May 2003 22:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

Iron Maiden have managed....what....twelve albums? If Good Charlotte get to album number four, I'll be very surprised.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 01:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

(Don't get me wrong - I'm squarely in the Maiden camp on this one. Why, it was only a few months ago that I was karaoke-ing "Run For the Hills")

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 15:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

Fittingly, I was wondering sometime yesterday if Alex was the kind of person who thinks the longevity of a band makes their work better than a flash in the pan's (which Good Charlotte may well might be, though I don't know why that would diminish the quality of the damn great CD I have of theirs, so who knows and who cares?). One of the problems with this mentality is you have to spend hours upon hours appreciating that some crusty nuthin'-better-to-do British clods have been doing something stupid for over 20 years (which in and of itself is less impressive than the Jerry Lewis Telethon, and I don't watch THAT, do I?). If Good Charlotte turn into youth counselors tomorrow, you can find out they were better than Iron Maiden in less than an hour (even if they're career has less endurance...ooooooh)! So you can get on with your day and read some Greek Mythology! Like Maiden!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 16:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, that "Iron Maiden paid their dues, Good Charlotte didn't" argument got under my skin, too. I'm amazed anybody even still falls for that old saw. Alex, Anthony is right: LONGEVITY DOESN'T MATTER, AND NEVER DID. Three minutes of ? and the Mysterians mattered more than 35 years of the Dead or Pink Floyd (or 20 of U2 or the Chili Peppers, or however many of Radiohead or Pearl Jam), and always will.

(P.S.: Preferring Iron Maiden to Kix means hating fun, period. Or maybe just hating hooks, wit, rhythm, melodies, weirdness, singers who can actually sing, and rock'n'roll. Same things, more or less.)

― chuck, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 17:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

Chuck, you could take your argument and say the exact same reverse, though RE: Kix and Iron Maiden. It's just as bad an argument as the longevity one.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 17:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

Who the hell is Kix? Are they a dub metal band a la the Chambers Brothers?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 17:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

They're really big fans of cereal.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 17:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

Iron Maiden and Anthrax were the only metal band I liked as a kid, mostly for the humor and the literary references.
Subthread:
Taking Sides... "To Tame a Land" vs "Among the Living"

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 17:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

No Ally, cereal is just a really big fan of THEM.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Well, however it works out, it's all delicious to me.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

Kix, like Quarterflash and Loverboy, aren't as good as Chuck thinks but better than everyone else thinks.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

Well, I just got back from a singularly awful lunch with my father, so fuck you all. For a start, longevity doesn't necessarily matter, but my point was that Iron Maiden have already well established themselves....love'em or hate'me, whereas Good Charlotte are still in the process of doing so. Thus, they shouldn't be compared as they are in different stages of their respective careers. It's like comparing John Mayer to Van Morisson or Michelle Branch to Joni Mitchell or the Vines to the Ramones.

There are oodles of bands who only managed one or two decent albums before splitting. That wasn't my point. However, I don't think Good Charlotte are doing anything interesting or original enough for them to milk it beyond album number three. Maybe they'll prove me wrong and re-invent themselves ala Talk Talk or Radiohead. Stranger things have certainly happened. All I know is that to me they're well below mediocre in the music department, and the fact that they insist on dressing themselves up like something they're not only adds insult to injury.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

But Alex, Good Charlotte are still alive and well....thus they have the opportunity to grow and develop, experiment with styles, mature with age, and become a long-lasting, viable musical entity, unlike the overrated sacred cow that Iron Maiden has become.

― NA. (Nick A.), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

Sacred Cow or not, Iron Maiden are still recording new music. Like a veritable shark that needs to keep moving to sustain its own life, they are still swimming.. You lifted that from a quote I made about Nirvana....a band who are no longer recording new music. No swimming there, I'm afraid.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

"and the fact that they insist on dressing themselves up like something they're not only adds insult to injury."

Huh?

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think you all are entirely missing the point, which is this: Good Charlotte lick orangutan nuttsacks blue.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

Jeanne, if you haven't been following the ongoing war between Anthony and myself about Good Charlotte being big ol' posers, may I direct you to practically ever other thread in current activity here on ILM, as it seems like a topic that we've well beat into the ground. I resent the fact that they present themselves like the Exploited yet ultimately make music better suited to Third Eye Blind.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

I just resent the fact that they eXist, and = sux0r.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

Skipping 167 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.