marketing of masculinity

I came out the womb wearing a tie

xx-post you realize you have basically described jabba the hutt rite

― it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, December 9, 2009 2:23 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

tbf jabba was pretty pimp

Michael White is the living example of a quote I have stuck to my wall: "I don't deserve credit for turning the other cheek because my tongue is always in it."

― WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, December 9, 2009 3:57 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hahaha

re: "The Dangerous Book for Boys"

my kid brother has that book, and let me tell you it's boring

it mostly consists of various diagrams of swiss army knives

dangerous, hah!

i really dont care abt quiche and khakis or whatever else is supposed to signify u meaty and awesome - if men have some little coffee drink and it makes them happy im down w/that - however there are some aspects of our society which deviate from traditional stoic masculinity in a way id rather not deal with

particularly the tendency of guys my age and younger to bond over pop culture in a formal near religious manner - so much nervous energy expended over dudes making sure they have the same opinion of and know all the lines from caddyshack

and it extends beyond pop culture sharing to some wider constant checking in that i cant quite articulate rite now - like dude dude did u see that chick she was awesome rite she was awesome remember that one chick omg yes remember her ok ok - dnw this bro culture neediness

id rather gaze mysteriously toward the horizon

I'm not sure that either of those is much of a deviation from old-school manliness. Memorizing/geeking out on pop culture is a modern variation on being knowledgeable about, I dunno, hunting or how to fix a riding lawnmower or whatever. Most of society has been removed from those kinds of tasks, so the communal knowledge that gets you into the man-group has changed.

Comparing penis size (either "look how hot my wench is" or "man I want that wench, she so fine) is pretty standard in history, too.

I think an early Bloom County strip mentions this explicitly.

― kingfish, Wednesday, December 9, 2009 2:19 PM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i remember this!

eh i feel like maybe there used to be some standard of not being so openly needy abt these things - u just grunt and nod xp

What David Altschiller, at Hill, Holliday/Altschiller, in Manhattan, liked about the spots, for example, was that the hero was naïve: in neither case did he know that he had on nice pants until a gorgeous woman told him so. Naïveté, Altschiller stressed, is critical. Several years ago, he did a spot for Claiborne for Men cologne in which a great-looking guy in a bar, wearing a gorgeous suit, was obsessing neurotically about a beautiful woman at the other end of the room: "I see this woman. She's perfect. She's looking at me. She's smiling. But wait. Is she smiling at me? Or laughing at me? . . . Or looking at someone else?" You'd never do this in an ad for women's cologne. Can you imagine? "I see this guy. He's perfect. Ohmigod. Is he looking at me?" In women's advertising, self-confidence is sexy. But if a man is self-confident-if he knows he is attractive and is beautifully dressed- then he's not a man anymore. He's a fop. He's effeminate. The cologne guy had to be neurotic or the ad wouldn't work. "Men are still abashed about acknowledging that clothing is important," Altschiller said. "Fashion can't be important to me as a man. Even when, in the first commercial, the waiter says 'Nice pants,' it doesn't compute to the guy wearing the nice pants. He's thinking, What do you mean, 'Nice pants'?"

― max, Wednesday, December 9, 2009 6:11 AM (14 hours ago) Bookmark

max quoting an article on advertising

but both the author and the interviewee are being a bit disingenuous, imo. i don't believe that advertisers of this era were simply noticing that men were not fashion-conscious. they were instead deliberately attempting to encourage a degree of neurosis in men in order to manipulate them into relying on products. the hook of the cologne ad is that the guy's self-doubt is relatable. in his slightly comical neurosis about his own attractiveness, he mimics the target viewer's doubts. so a connection in forged. and that probably works as a selling point, especially in a more-self conscious era.

but it also reinforces a much more basic psychological dynamic: that to be male is to feel inadequate about one's appeal to the opposite sex, and that to buy the proper grooming product is to assuage this anxiety. and advertisers KNOW that. they certainly know that about female consumers. ads for women's beauty products aren't based on the idea that female consumers DO feel "confident" about their looks. they're based entirely on the idea that they don't. they therefore don't instill confidence, they undercut it. and then they offer to sell it back to you. and that's exactly what's going on in the cologne ad.

in initially encouraging this kind of neurosis in men, advertisers probably had to depict it quite literally. thus the man is actually shown expressing doubt about himself. in this sense, it's a very primitive, first-stage ad of its type. ads selling sex appeal to women don't have to show her feeling self-conscious - due to decades (centuries) of fashion & beauty industry messages telling women that they aren't sufficiently attractive to begin with, advertisers can simply count on a profound degree of female self-doubt.

a little later on, as in our era, male doubt (like female doubt) can simply be assumed. now that "male consumers" have been buffeted by a few decades of conflicting, manipulative "you're not good enough" messages, it can be safely assumed that they are neurotic and confused about their own standing as men. ads can simply suggest that to buy this product will quell that confusion, will make you a real man. so it doesn't surprise me that we're seeing a lot of such messages.

dude

: /

?

!

My favorite marketed for men product = MAN TISSUES

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3207/2405941831_eb1ccafca7.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2240/2405942091_f9e1d13579.jpg

they were instead deliberately attempting to encourage a degree of neurosis in men in order to manipulate them into relying on products

OTM

LOLOLOLOLOL @ man-tissues

"LET'S FACE IT YOU LIKE WANKING"

Strong, Soft, Sorted.

british only?

Soaks all those spills, and is still kind on you

btw when product marketers attempt to produce poetry or little short stories on their products, baby Jesus cries

id rather gaze mysteriously toward the horizon

http://www.canvasreplicas.com/images/Wanderer%20Above%20the%20Sea%20of%20Fog%20Caspar%20David%20Friedrich.jpg

hitting a bunch of angles at once (yr too fat, men like bacon, FOR MEN ONLY)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3590/3538717595_b4010e8e3e.jpg

dunno whether or not that's been posted, thread's hella long

(deej - yeah, I think the man tissues are UK only. That's where I saw them.)

im just thinking "sorted!" wouldnt really translate well here -- oh good theyve arranged the tissues within the box

omg man tissues, I'm dying here.

Can someone explain "sorted" to me?

Somehow all I can think when I see Kleenex for Men is "it's okay to cry."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaghba_DDbg

What's the Aerosmith video that has a closeup of a man crumpling a tissue? I can't remember which one it is, but I remember the MTV VJ making jokes about it.

"sorted" - pretty much means taken care, all set, finished. Does that make sense?

Just realized that it's probably short for "sorted out".

ENBB is you a britisher? I never knew.

No but I lived there for two years which is when I saw the tissues etc.

"man tissues" is mystifying wtf lol. can't imagine anyone thinking that was a good idea in the states.

then again, men could benefit

my wife and i lolled at man-size tissues boxes we saw in ireland

Totally bought a box the day I first saw them btw. Too good to pass up imo.

btw I eat luna bars

have fun growing a vagina

(the dulce de leche ones are AWESOME)

I mean mostly I eat CLIF BARS! but sometimes we run out and I eat the wife's Luna bars. Come to think of it it is fucking ridiculous that we actually buy his and hers energy bars.

wait, luna bars are for women? fuck, no wonder jalabi chalabi behind the counter snickered whenever I bought one of those

i usually keep a few in the trunk of my car

http://www.beautyheaven.com.au/article_images/2009/July/July-20/CliniqueSkinSuppliesForMenMaximumHydrator.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/donaldparsley/mcoversmall.jpg

not particularly funny, just the other side of the coin, for full cognitive dissonance

Yeah are like the Lifetime TV of energy bars.

luna bars are a sorta rare instance of a product that's generally non-gendered having a special "for her" version. though i guess that's not uncommon in the health supplements industry...

I don't see those kinda bars being non-gendered at all, though.

dulce de leche vaginas ARE awesome. xpost

;)