Lady Gaga needs her own thread

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I'm not trying to position her as some sort of rnb/hip hop conquerer, her producers and collabs and overall sound certainly make it an undeniable aspect of her career and that's how she's managed to be so successful, by straddling the genres and capturing as many music demographics as possible. I think Just Dance with the Akon and Colby O'Donis (?) guest spots was very strategic in that regard. But she has veered away from that since. She has managed to use that opening to take some things to the top of the chart that aren't typical of what's commonly been reigning, and as you said she's going to be referenced for a while, and nobody loves to reference hit songs like wannabe hit songwriters.

musically, Friday, 13 November 2009 04:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol @ this being yet another gaga analysis thread

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm genuinely surprised by the resistance and negativity. She's only occasionally GREAT (Pokerface, duh), but is generally at least decent and, it seems to me, deserves a lot of credit for authoring her own music and image in a field usually attaches "stars" as decoration to other people's work. Plus she's kinda subversive, in a dumb/funny garishly contrived way that's both grating and perversely appealing. I can't say I LOVE her, cuz the material's way too uneven so far, but I'm more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt for a while.

Why all the hate?

from alcoholism to fleshly concerns (contenderizer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

because ppl give her backhanded compliments like "subversive, but i dont really like most of her songs"

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol @ this being yet another gaga analysis thread

― hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:15 PM (30 seconds ago) Bookmark

how could it not?

from alcoholism to fleshly concerns (contenderizer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

I like her Queen-sounding ballads, but I want to LOVE them.. I think if she perfected her songwriting further she could nail these.

billstevejim, Friday, 13 November 2009 04:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

because ppl give her backhanded compliments like "subversive, but i dont really like most of her songs"

― hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:16 PM (40 seconds ago) Bookmark

Are you saying that people (like me) who are intrigued by her image/style and maybe like a couple songs are the reason that other people get all irritated by her? I'm not sure I understand...

from alcoholism to fleshly concerns (contenderizer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

I can't say I LOVE her, cuz the material's way too uneven so far, but I'm more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt for a while.

I think it's a combination of this with the out and out pretension displayed from the outset? When first presented with GaGa, a hitherto unknown pop artist who dresses fairly garishly, rambles on about Andy Warhol and how her project is a deconstruction of fame, but whose music does nothing to follow through on her stated goals, gut reaction is to write her off as the celebrity equivalent of an undergrad student babbling about post-modernism to sound intelligent. It was all a bit too calculated to feel genuine, a bit too 'quirky' for its own good.

wrapped up, packed up, ribbon with a donk on it (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

i dont think anyone here is saying they 'hate' her really tho

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

is it like totally lame and old-fashioned to ask that someone make some decent songs before they get credit for having a persona or whatever?

the gaga songs i've heard are boring, hookless, rote pop exercises. they are so dour and un-fun.

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's a question of - what is she: musicians or performance artist? And she scans initially and presents herself as a pop star (i.e. musician first and foremost). So while the image and so forth might be interesting, the central part of the package (the music) is sometimes good but never great.

wrapped up, packed up, ribbon with a donk on it (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

Re the quality of her songs overall:

One of the problems with having written one incredible, indelible, perfect pop hit along with all your other perfectly decent journeyman work is that it tends to make the rest look like, well ... like perfectly decent journeyman work. You know?

from alcoholism to fleshly concerns (contenderizer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

poker face is 'incredible' 'indelible' 'perfect'??

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

what is this indelible perfect pop hit you speak of

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah she could really be more show-not-tell instead of just going "this is post-modern! it's pop art! it's very gay and transgressive, can you handle it america!?"

windows XD (some dude), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

If she were just an entertaining persona - a self-aware Paris Hilton writ large, lampooning our fucked up and strange relationship with the concept of celebrity fame and money I would be totally down with her. But her shtick includes videos, albums, and songs. So the middling quality of those necessarily have a bearing.

wrapped up, packed up, ribbon with a donk on it (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

its super great but i prefer the song when presented by the avant-pop artist nosferatu

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

now thats subversive

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

@Alex in Montreal: you phrase that as if performance art/musicianship are mutually exclusive?

musically, Friday, 13 November 2009 04:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

i kinda feel like if you look back at some of the more high concept or kind of subversive stars in pop history, probably most of them made a big impact well before they really got credit for exactly what they were doing or started to really spell it out for people

windows XD (some dude), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol criss angel poster

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

Pop star fails to sufficiently satirize pop music for non pop music fans shocker

Death to False Meta (Noodle Vague), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's like, I don't want NO gaga, I just want the Socratic Ideal of GaGa and not this bullshit real world version we are stuck with.

xp Not mutually exclusive! More that, if music is being included as part of your performance art, it had DAMN better be as good as a) your ideas, b) the rest of your performance and c) the music of the genre/scene/etc. that you are participating in/commenting on

wrapped up, packed up, ribbon with a donk on it (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

If you try to satirize something you're not better or smarter than in any way then you're just..I dunno, Meet The Spartans?

windows XD (some dude), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

NV i think the point here is that ppl who LIKE pop music find her stuff middling at best

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

Pop star fails to sufficiently satirize pop music for non pop music fans shocker

Yeah, whatever.

a) most of us ARE pop music fans.
b) she's made it perfectly clear that this is what she intends to do.

wrapped up, packed up, ribbon with a donk on it (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

shes poorly satirizing all the way to the bank tbf

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

if you're going to claim the title of satirist/cultural commentator/provocateur and declare this fact in every interview you have in your first four months or so of exposure, you should not be surprised when people judge you on the basis of those claims.

wrapped up, packed up, ribbon with a donk on it (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp so?

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

she's kind of like Marilyn Manson in how she just hammers home her agenda constantly and is like, looking around the room to see if she's getting the reaction she's looking for

windows XD (some dude), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

so kudos for a successful business plan in this economy xp

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

marilyn manson could be a worse comparison

see-those-tit-ies (J0rdan S.), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

i don't really understand what that sentence means

windows XD (some dude), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

sure, i mean she has achieved her goal of being famous

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

thats all im saying

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

I like the pretension, the transparent phoniness of the art posturing, the whole "my art is my celebrity" shtick. I don't like it cuz it's clever or deep; I like it cuz it's dumb, fun and funny. And cuz it somehow throws into harsh relief the fact that she's not a product, that she's a real person doing this very strange (and rare and probably terrifying, exhilarating) thing for a living. Kinda like Marilyn Manson in that regard. The goofball pretension adds a quality of humanity, of awkwardness to a genre that can sometimes seem rather impersonal. Or so it seems to me. I liked Peaches for similar reasons, though more (much more). I guess other people relate to other pop stars for other reasons...

from alcoholism to fleshly concerns (contenderizer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

honestly i wouldn't really give a fuck how she acts if i had just a single goddamn one of her songs in the non-album tracks section of my ipod

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

i am listening to bad romance now. i mean, really?

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

gaga ooh la la

see-those-tit-ies (J0rdan S.), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol it sounds like 6 people wrote parts of songs and then a 7th guy had to put them all together

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

man were there ever a bunch of lady gagas around here on halloween

just joussin' ya (bernard snowy), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

she's a bad artist, but that's her best song imo xp

k3vin k., Friday, 13 November 2009 04:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

i could list off reasons why i don't like it but that would bore everyone. suffice it to say imo it is a horrible song.

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

i mean it makes her other songs sound like songs i would actually enjoy.

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

Re some earlier discussion, Pokerface really IS a perfect indelible incredible pop tune. To me, anyway, and I don't think I'm alone in that. It's least good enough to justify the sub-par follow-ups and cheezeball image-mongering (for an album or two). I suspect it'll become one of those songs that represents & summarizes its era in the American pop memory banks.

Agree with those who are disappointed & underwhelmed by most of her other would-be hits. I have friends who get all excited about them and make me watch youtube videos, but so far I agree that she's usually more interesting & entertaining than musically successful. And I guess I'm okay with that.

from alcoholism to fleshly concerns (contenderizer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

y'all suck. gaga ruelz, she writes great songs.

The Brainwasher, Friday, 13 November 2009 04:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp one thing you might be able to help me with is what makes poker face so above and beyond her other tunes iyo

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's kind of a cop out answer, but catchiness. I think it's an incredibly appealing song, just based on sound and feel. I went around singing it for WEEKS after hearing it only once. I don't know any music theory, so I can't really articulate this in a comprehensible fashion, but it hits me in a way that very few pop songs do. First time I heard it, it struck me in the same way that Hey Ya and Crazy did a few years back. It struck me as the sort of thing that would instantly and effortlessly appeal to almost everybody -- not just the typical audience for "that kind of thing", but everybody. Kids, moms & dads, indies, rockers: anyone with any taste for pop tunes. And it seems to me that I was right. Everybody I know likes it.

I don't think anything else she's written even comes close to Pokerface, but that's okay, because tons of people have adequate careers without ever writing anything that universally appealing. And she's just getting started.

from alcoholism to fleshly concerns (contenderizer), Friday, 13 November 2009 05:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

I don't understand the "biggest melting pot" thing...sure there are a couple different things going on in her music at once, but that can be said of virtually everything else on the pop charts.

It seems she does this with more intensity than most, not only in her music, but especially in her image. In the video for "Bad Romance" I can see influences from Goldfrapp, Annie Lennox, Bjork, Britney Spears, Cher, Christina Aguilera, Gwen Stephani, Madonna, Marilyn Manson, Roisin Murphy, Rihanna, Soundgarden...

She's definitely pushing the "weird" enveloppe for a pop star and I think it might even alienate a bit of her younger female audience, but as said above will attract the gay crowd like flies.

The melodies and choruses just aren't strong enough.

I don't know how the choruses to "Paparazzi" and "Bad Romance" can be considered weak. And I'm pretty sure if Britney had done "Poker Face" most people here would have wet their pants. If we're honest, I think the general problem has to do with Lady Gaga herself rather than her music, which ranges from decent to great pop music.

LeRooLeRoo, Friday, 13 November 2009 05:09 (4 years ago) Permalink


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