Lady Gaga needs her own thread

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when I think of rnb for tacky queers I think of something like Boom Boom Pow, except better.

musically, Friday, 13 November 2009 03:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's hardly new or surprising that she's as successful as she is...even among the TACKY QUEERS. She wrote for Britney and obviously can write annoyingly catchy, disposable pop, but it's still pretty impressive how we're talking about her in the context of competing with hip hop/r&b....or rather, you are. I loathed even hearing people say "GaGa" up until I saw her acoustic performance of Poker Face, which was beyond entertaining. I think she's purely a spectacle at this point, with the potential to be more later. It's like, I'm reluctant to give her ANY credit, but you can't deny the obvious "Gaga Effect" that's taken place in music since her arrival. For better or for worse, she is going to be referenced for a while.

Spinspin Sugah, Friday, 13 November 2009 04:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think what annoys (annoyed? havent decided if im indifferent yet) is that it came across as so obviously trying hard to be exactly that.

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

Ne-Yo? Queer, certainly. Tacky...isn't that sort of the opposite of how he tries to code? His music's all buttoned-up class most of the time.

I won't deny that GaGa plays to the cheap seats and the trashiest common denominator, but there are enough redeeming qualities buried underneath all the bullshit that my attempts to write off or ignore her altogether have been unsustainable. What bothers me most about her at this point is that she has a half-decent idea of a commentary on the state of music, fame and celebrity in the 21st century, as well as raw musical chops (plays a decent piano, has a decent voice, knows her way around a hook or two) but somehow manages to (either through lack of effort or lack of experience) only release half-assed product most of the time. Like...the videos and the music and the performance art are all strike as if they were made by someone who had a really brilliant idea once but doesn't quite remember what it was.

wrapped up, packed up, ribbon with a donk on it (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

i wasn't serious about ne-yo

see-those-tit-ies (J0rdan S.), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

boo!

Hell is other people. In an ILE film forum. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

im just thinking mostly of

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

so obviously trying hard to be exactly that

OTM. There's something I find very grating about music or art or whatever that seems to be calculatedly designed to appeal not to me as a person, but instead as a demographic. Like women who insist that they "love the gays", there's an air about it all that makes (made?) me want to run for the hills.

wrapped up, packed up, ribbon with a donk on it (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

So...um. At this point I guess I love the idea of her and hate the reality of her. Or grudgingly tolerate it.

wrapped up, packed up, ribbon with a donk on it (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm not trying to position her as some sort of rnb/hip hop conquerer, her producers and collabs and overall sound certainly make it an undeniable aspect of her career and that's how she's managed to be so successful, by straddling the genres and capturing as many music demographics as possible. I think Just Dance with the Akon and Colby O'Donis (?) guest spots was very strategic in that regard. But she has veered away from that since. She has managed to use that opening to take some things to the top of the chart that aren't typical of what's commonly been reigning, and as you said she's going to be referenced for a while, and nobody loves to reference hit songs like wannabe hit songwriters.

musically, Friday, 13 November 2009 04:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol @ this being yet another gaga analysis thread

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm genuinely surprised by the resistance and negativity. She's only occasionally GREAT (Pokerface, duh), but is generally at least decent and, it seems to me, deserves a lot of credit for authoring her own music and image in a field usually attaches "stars" as decoration to other people's work. Plus she's kinda subversive, in a dumb/funny garishly contrived way that's both grating and perversely appealing. I can't say I LOVE her, cuz the material's way too uneven so far, but I'm more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt for a while.

Why all the hate?

from alcoholism to fleshly concerns (contenderizer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

because ppl give her backhanded compliments like "subversive, but i dont really like most of her songs"

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol @ this being yet another gaga analysis thread

― hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:15 PM (30 seconds ago) Bookmark

how could it not?

from alcoholism to fleshly concerns (contenderizer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

I like her Queen-sounding ballads, but I want to LOVE them.. I think if she perfected her songwriting further she could nail these.

billstevejim, Friday, 13 November 2009 04:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

because ppl give her backhanded compliments like "subversive, but i dont really like most of her songs"

― hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:16 PM (40 seconds ago) Bookmark

Are you saying that people (like me) who are intrigued by her image/style and maybe like a couple songs are the reason that other people get all irritated by her? I'm not sure I understand...

from alcoholism to fleshly concerns (contenderizer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

I can't say I LOVE her, cuz the material's way too uneven so far, but I'm more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt for a while.

I think it's a combination of this with the out and out pretension displayed from the outset? When first presented with GaGa, a hitherto unknown pop artist who dresses fairly garishly, rambles on about Andy Warhol and how her project is a deconstruction of fame, but whose music does nothing to follow through on her stated goals, gut reaction is to write her off as the celebrity equivalent of an undergrad student babbling about post-modernism to sound intelligent. It was all a bit too calculated to feel genuine, a bit too 'quirky' for its own good.

wrapped up, packed up, ribbon with a donk on it (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

i dont think anyone here is saying they 'hate' her really tho

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

is it like totally lame and old-fashioned to ask that someone make some decent songs before they get credit for having a persona or whatever?

the gaga songs i've heard are boring, hookless, rote pop exercises. they are so dour and un-fun.

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's a question of - what is she: musicians or performance artist? And she scans initially and presents herself as a pop star (i.e. musician first and foremost). So while the image and so forth might be interesting, the central part of the package (the music) is sometimes good but never great.

wrapped up, packed up, ribbon with a donk on it (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

Re the quality of her songs overall:

One of the problems with having written one incredible, indelible, perfect pop hit along with all your other perfectly decent journeyman work is that it tends to make the rest look like, well ... like perfectly decent journeyman work. You know?

from alcoholism to fleshly concerns (contenderizer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

poker face is 'incredible' 'indelible' 'perfect'??

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

what is this indelible perfect pop hit you speak of

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah she could really be more show-not-tell instead of just going "this is post-modern! it's pop art! it's very gay and transgressive, can you handle it america!?"

windows XD (some dude), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

If she were just an entertaining persona - a self-aware Paris Hilton writ large, lampooning our fucked up and strange relationship with the concept of celebrity fame and money I would be totally down with her. But her shtick includes videos, albums, and songs. So the middling quality of those necessarily have a bearing.

wrapped up, packed up, ribbon with a donk on it (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

its super great but i prefer the song when presented by the avant-pop artist nosferatu

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

now thats subversive

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

@Alex in Montreal: you phrase that as if performance art/musicianship are mutually exclusive?

musically, Friday, 13 November 2009 04:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

i kinda feel like if you look back at some of the more high concept or kind of subversive stars in pop history, probably most of them made a big impact well before they really got credit for exactly what they were doing or started to really spell it out for people

windows XD (some dude), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol criss angel poster

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

Pop star fails to sufficiently satirize pop music for non pop music fans shocker

Death to False Meta (Noodle Vague), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's like, I don't want NO gaga, I just want the Socratic Ideal of GaGa and not this bullshit real world version we are stuck with.

xp Not mutually exclusive! More that, if music is being included as part of your performance art, it had DAMN better be as good as a) your ideas, b) the rest of your performance and c) the music of the genre/scene/etc. that you are participating in/commenting on

wrapped up, packed up, ribbon with a donk on it (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

If you try to satirize something you're not better or smarter than in any way then you're just..I dunno, Meet The Spartans?

windows XD (some dude), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

NV i think the point here is that ppl who LIKE pop music find her stuff middling at best

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

Pop star fails to sufficiently satirize pop music for non pop music fans shocker

Yeah, whatever.

a) most of us ARE pop music fans.
b) she's made it perfectly clear that this is what she intends to do.

wrapped up, packed up, ribbon with a donk on it (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

shes poorly satirizing all the way to the bank tbf

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

if you're going to claim the title of satirist/cultural commentator/provocateur and declare this fact in every interview you have in your first four months or so of exposure, you should not be surprised when people judge you on the basis of those claims.

wrapped up, packed up, ribbon with a donk on it (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp so?

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

she's kind of like Marilyn Manson in how she just hammers home her agenda constantly and is like, looking around the room to see if she's getting the reaction she's looking for

windows XD (some dude), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

so kudos for a successful business plan in this economy xp

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

marilyn manson could be a worse comparison

see-those-tit-ies (J0rdan S.), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

i don't really understand what that sentence means

windows XD (some dude), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

sure, i mean she has achieved her goal of being famous

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

thats all im saying

hoos-kingofthedrugs (deej), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

I like the pretension, the transparent phoniness of the art posturing, the whole "my art is my celebrity" shtick. I don't like it cuz it's clever or deep; I like it cuz it's dumb, fun and funny. And cuz it somehow throws into harsh relief the fact that she's not a product, that she's a real person doing this very strange (and rare and probably terrifying, exhilarating) thing for a living. Kinda like Marilyn Manson in that regard. The goofball pretension adds a quality of humanity, of awkwardness to a genre that can sometimes seem rather impersonal. Or so it seems to me. I liked Peaches for similar reasons, though more (much more). I guess other people relate to other pop stars for other reasons...

from alcoholism to fleshly concerns (contenderizer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

honestly i wouldn't really give a fuck how she acts if i had just a single goddamn one of her songs in the non-album tracks section of my ipod

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

i am listening to bad romance now. i mean, really?

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

gaga ooh la la

see-those-tit-ies (J0rdan S.), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol it sounds like 6 people wrote parts of songs and then a 7th guy had to put them all together

omaha deserved 311 (call all destroyer), Friday, 13 November 2009 04:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

imo you need to get over your odd concern with the levels of enthusiasm people display in the taylor swift threads. oh no, people being excited about an artist, how awful.

really not into fans/critics talking like record label executives and poring over sales figures and whatnot just to declare that x or y has "flopped", though it's pretty obvious this is swift's most commercially successful era to date, which isn't necessarily good news, as it means she's wheeling "22" out as the next single :(

lex pretend, Tuesday, 19 February 2013 13:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

why does everyone hate 22, it's so joyous.

monotony, Tuesday, 19 February 2013 13:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

I don't have any concern whatsoever, Lex. I was simply impressed that she was touring football arenas (capacity: 65,000 or so), which is enough of an anomaly these days that I was wondering if she could fill it. Straight curiosity. Swift will do just fine with or without my support.

The only enthusiasm I've made fun of on the Swift thread is the squeeeee!-like levels of over-enthusiasm, imo. Which isn't even necessarily unwarranted, just easy to make fun of.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 February 2013 13:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

i don't think it really matters if a really huge artist tours late in the album cycle -- if anything it matters more when tickets go onsale, in terms of whether they're trying for a quick sellout, or if they want to sell tickets quickly enough that nobody considers moving it to a smaller venue. the Gaga thing is unique just because she only seems to be in America in off-cycles, seemed to be off the road or out of the country the entire time Born This Way was actually selling and spinning off hits.

some dude, Tuesday, 19 February 2013 13:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

I did think that was weird, but I think it's be because she simply can't tour behind the album all the time, everywhere. She was touring the US right before it came out; when I last saw her, she encored with "Born This Way," which was then all over the place. That was indeed about a year and a half ago, to the month. But she's been touring non-stop ever since. Looking at her setlist, the US dates would have still gotten a "Born This Way"-heavy show. It's weird to be at the end of a tour cycle for an album, but I suppose that's how everyone else feels most of the time!

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 February 2013 14:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

this assumption that pop stars have to be in the headlines or active at all times is odd, and it's impt to remember, quite recent, and the unrelenting ubiquity of rihanna is still the exception not the rule

This is not a recent assumption at all. Michael Jackson sang lead on a single, either solo or with the Jackson 5, every year between 1969 and 1975, then did it again between 1991 and 1997. Madonna released at least one single every year between 1982 and 1994. Prince released at least one single every year from 1976 to 2001. The Beatles released a single every year that they were together as a band. Celine Dion released at least one single every year from 1981 through 2008. etc etc etc

Ima R.A.E.D. (DJP), Tuesday, 19 February 2013 17:18 (1 year ago) Permalink


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