Rolling Metal Thread 2009

wait, do these bands actually want to break out of "the metal ghetto"? i mean, isn't that the very definition of selling out in "their world"? maybe these guys don't actually want to be on a major label, you know? it's a shame either way.

also: let's not forget grunge/Nirvana damage... and Metallica damage, too.

gotta hear that there new Katatonia, tho.

"Cave In from 'Jupiter' onwards is a good example of breaking out the metal ghetto w/ your head held high"

I dunno. Seems like they've been licking their wounds for a few years now...

Would you believe that I love Opeth, work closely with Agalloch, but have never (knowingly) heard Katatonia? Should I start with this one?

i reckon start with 'brave murder day'. (i have not heard the new one tho')

whatever Scott thinks you should start off with will be the correct choice imo.

xp

I vote starting with this one, just because it was the first studio album I'd ever heard by them (I also heard the 2007 live album and liked that, but not as much as this).

brave murder day and discouraged ones will always be my faves, but i like it all pretty much. nate might want to check out the debut since he's a dooooooooom lover.

can't believe this song is 12 years old!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_UfoXQ3tic

where does the time go?

that guitar sound...

total heroin to me.

hey they reissued the first october tide record, right? everyone needs that too.

you can check out both october tide albums on youtube. they are both great. kinda like having 2 bonus katatonia albums under another name. brave murder day-era katatonia, that is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxM_K66prHY

wait, do these bands actually want to break out of "the metal ghetto"? i mean, isn't that the very definition of selling out in "their world"? maybe these guys don't actually want to be on a major label, you know? it's a shame either way.

maybe kind of a stupid phrase that I used there but I would say that, for anathema at least, there was definitely an attempt to appeal to a broader audience. and not because they had watered-down their sound but because the band had naturally evolved into something that really should have appealed to a broader audience if they were getting written-up in anything other than metal mags.

I don't consider that a sell out move but I'm sure some do. whateva.

and agreed with nate on cave in. I like jupiter just fine (or did when it came out, it's been a while) but the cold reception to that foo fighters-sounding album basically almost killed the band, right?

and brave murder day, discouraged ones, or the newest katatonia are all fine places to start. but try to listen to at least two! they're all fairly different animals.

Antenna killed them with the fans. They got the backing of the likes of Kerrang but the new fans were fairweather fans and didn't stick with them. The album was awful, one cd i wish i never bought.

Yeah I didn't make my point re Cave In very well... it was 8.30am here so hey. Jupiter was/is a good example of changing up what you do, sounding sincere about it (YMMV but I think so) and having people broadly accept the fact that you've moved on. I think most people would agree they haven't lived up to what potential 'Jupiter' had I guess... I never heard 'Antenna' I must admit

that's my point, tho: can a troo metal band still legitimately break out of the extreme metal ghetto, sell millions of records, and retain the respect of the EM fanbase and their peers in the underground? on a major label no less?

xps(?)

Not sure how close they are to seven-figure sales at this point but Mastodon haven't done a bad job of this all things considered... unless having a gaggle of dull shitfondlers grousing about you on messageboards negates the respect that you *do* still maintain, in which case the answer is no it is probably impossible

The only Katatonia I have is The Black Sessions-- am I getting a fair idea of them from that?

The more I listen to Aztlan Underground's self-titled album the more I wish anyone else here had heard it. Angry Mexican dudes doomgrunting in ancient native languages, then screamranting against churches and empires in English. Sometimes free-jazz metal, other times long twisty punk/prog stuff. Most exciting metal record of the year I think but what the hell do I know.

Managed to acquire that Arabrot EP. Loving it, although possibly only the title track is classically what might be thought of as metal?

http://www.myspace.com/aztlanunderground

sounds interesting but not very metal.

xp

Jupiter was Cave In's peak for me. I thought Until Your Heart Stops and Beyond Hypothermia were kinda baby-steps and even at their best Botch wiped the floor with 'em. So the move toward something more conventionally rock yet still mathy and awesome was a natural, and wise, choice. Had they recorded three albums in a row in that style they'd be revered today, I think.

xp to Ioannis: The two tracks there are not admittedly as metallic as other ones on the album like "Moztlitta" or "Smell the Dead."

yeah, i just listened to some snippets from the album and am now very curious indeed. excellent guitar sound, btw.

Has anyone else heard the album by the frankly ludicrously named Trippy Wicked & The Cosmic Children Of The Night? Dorset stoners with a kind of southern edge to them, not exactly revolutionary but right up the alley of a fair few people here, I supect.

The only Katatonia I have is The Black Sessions-- am I getting a fair idea of them from that?

I would say so, that's a really good look at their post-Brave Murder Day output (though you really should pick up BMD if you haven't heard it). But I think they really stepped things up with Viva Emptiness and The Great Cold Distance (an album I have yet to tire of), plus the performances of the older stuff on Live Consternation are superb.

the wolves in the throne room album from this year will be in my top 10 for sure.

Regarding Ioannis' question (several XPs), I think Slayer are a pretty good example of a band that managed this. (Maybe too obvious an example?) Even now, their sound feels fairly "extreme" to me, they're obviously beloved by extreme metal bands and the media who cover the scene, and they're big enough to play arenas. Katatonia, on the other hand, don't feel like extreme metal at all to me, except in reputation. I agree they should be much bigger than they are; I also think this album will be something of a breakthrough. It needs to be championed, though, by a Pitchfork (or someone like that): some mainstream media pub that has a readership that will follow the critical lead and dig the sound.

Funny thing is, though, Pitchfork will almost surely ignore Katatonia, yet they will give Krallice (coincidentally from Brooklyn!) a Best New Music tag (which it deserves, because it is in fact the best new music). And Pitchfork readers will listen to Krallice and (largely) ignore it because it is blindingly heavy, yet they won't be exposed to Katatonia, which a larger percentage of them would presumably "get."

Kinda took the word "still" in the question to mean we were looking for a reasonably contemporary example, like the last five years at most? I don't think Slayer are irrelevant to the issue, quite the opposite, but they'd done all their breaking out by like 1988

heathenfest was great, prob the first festival style thing where i liked everyone i saw (missed the opener because the dude at the venue lied to us when we called and asked what time doors were. jerk.) The big surprise was Vreid, who were just an amazing wall of sound.

Sad side is that it was really really poorly attended, esp compared to paganfest which normally sells out up here. club was maybe at 25% capacity.

XP to DJ Mencap: Whoops! I totally ignored the "still" in the question. Indeed, this narrows the field somewhat. (Though to be fair, I think this may be a greater issue in America than it is in European countries, and while metal in America is thriving on the fringes, it's not really a force in the mainstream *at all*, except in the cases of Metallica and Slayer.)

well sure, yeah, but the question really should apply to post 1st-gen-thrash extreme metal, i would think--you know, like death metal and beyond. the era most likely to be covered by Decibel basically.

xps

yup, i'd say the past five to ten years is what we're concerned with here.

many xps

and Mastodon is a great example, but they don't even consider themselves to be a metal band (in the troo sense) these days, right? plus they're nowhere near even mid-'80s Metallica-like sales/status, i don't think.

difference is, the major labels actually spent money on thrash. they backed it when they saw what kind of numbers groups like metallica were getting. the majors haven't really backed metal at all except for nu-metal and some metalcore stuff in recent years. they haven't tried to build audiences for new techdeath or black metal or any of the newer popular subgenres.

a lot of people dont think Mastodon are metal anymore

Scott, that is true, but I think it's also important to consider the industry as a whole -- how many innovative acts of any genre are on majors? (Aside from maybe hip-hop.) If, say, Baroness (Relapse) could break out to be as big as, say, the Arcade Fire (Merge), it would feel like a pretty impressive achievement, and one that isn't impossible to imagine.

It's less likely, though, to imagine, say, Nachtmystium achieving that sort of popularity (even though they make very accessible [and awesome] music, to my ear).

Van Slyke Paidbreed, Lacuna Coil, and Lamb of God

God dammit. I hate you, voice recognition. Anyway, bands like Hatebreed, Lacuna Coil, and Lamb of God have managed to make a dent into the radio arena and the marketplace in the last decade. Even Dimmu had some of their songs used in movie trailers. I think the big tragedy with Katatonia is that they haven't even managed to rise to their deserved level of prominence within the metal world.

I don't know, I think a band named Van Slyke Paidbreed could be pretty awesome.

If, say, Baroness (Relapse) could break out to be as big as, say, the Arcade Fire (Merge)

I'd like to see some actual numbers re this. I have the feeling that the Arcade Fire don't actually sell worth a shit.

Current Amazon sales rankings:

The Arcade Fire, Neon Bible: 31,153
Baroness, Red Album (also released in 2007): 7,363

Van Slyke Paidbreed would make a great username

why did you have to steal my thunder?

lol, xpost:

Van Slyke Paidbreed

new screenname, right there for the taking

I used Arcade Fire as an example because I recently read the Merge Records oral history, and in that book, a number like 400K was mentioned (w/r/t sales of the first Arcade Fire record). This is not verified by me, obvs. Just thinking indie rock on an indie label equating to extreme metal on an indie label.

Don't forget about Dethklok, both in fiction and reality.

I did some rudimentary research and yeah, Arcade Fire have in fact sold a shit-ton of records.

is that arabrot ep a rerelease from a few years ago? im sure i heard an ep by them 3 or 4 years ago. Was a bit lightning boltish iirc

Migtve been this i heard http://www.discogs.com/%C3%85rabrot-RepRep/release/1454663

Thing about Anathema is, they could've gone mainstream with Alternative 4 (where they sounded exactly like Nickelback) but they misses that bandwagon and then it becomes difficult to build momentum again. And in the case of Katatonia well...their relevance/glory days are more than a decade behind them, both artistically and in terms of commercial breakthrough - they could have broken when the likes of HIM and The Rasmus were en vogue. They now keep churning a similar album every year to a stable core of fans. Like Graveland, really.