Rolling Metal Thread 2009

Very sad, not to mention grisly.

But us metal writers are pretty much the only press that will give this album any attention, despite its very broad appeal.

could be that metal fans are the only target for their sound anyway, whether they are metal or not. their name, doom-and-gloom atmosphere, and the chunky guitars on certain songs probably make it seem metal than any other genre to non-metalheads. the only Katatonia fans I've met in person have been metalheads my age (mid 30s). the audience when I saw them a few years ago was decidedly older, too.

I don't know what the point of that speculation was, other than to say that I guess I categorize them as metal by default since they used to do death metal, and only metal fans like them?

I think Katatonia's sound has advanced enough to the point where it can appeal to anyone who digs vintage goth/darkwave, and the subtle Massive Attack thing they have going on NITND sure doesn't hurt either.

I'm reminded me of all the bitching and moaning from non-metal folks who say they want to like so-and-so metal band but can't get past the harsh vocals...you want textured singing in heavy music, well, here it is. Doesn't get much better than this record.

On the subject of melodic doom metal, the new Swallow the Sun record sounds pretty good (and its cover artwork is excellent). That said, I question the decision to title the record "New Moon," when the "Twilight" film of the same name is set to be released only a few weeks later.

well they are of and from metal and if only metal writers write about them it could be because they have only ever been on metal labels! i mean, duh. most non-metal writers will only write about what they get for free and they are generally unadventurous and dull-witted and have horrible taste.

what i've never understood, and i've written about it more than once, are the bigger non-metal labels and their inability to lure katatonia away from peaceville (and at one time century media). they have EVERYTHING it takes to be huge. great songs, dedicated fan-base, deep catalog. but then we all know how stupid most big labels are. you wouldn't even need THAT much more money to make them bigger than they are. just a little more than the two dollar promo budget they currently have.

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You're very right. Katatonia should be getting a more aggressive push Stateside. Their contract with Peaceville is now up, I recently heard...

xp I don't know, I feel like Swallow the Sun fans and Twilight fans are unlikely to overlap. I mean, they're both pale and angsty, but they tend to be of different genders. I have the new record, but haven't had an opportunity to listen to it yet. They sure moved a whole lot of merch when I saw them live, though. They were quite awesome.

seems like koch and roadrunner have done okay opening opeth up to new crowds. another band that should have been snatched up by the beast years ago. i mean, its not like i think the big companies DESERVE to have good bands on their labels when its obvious the only thing they have going for them is money, but it just seems like its their JOB to steal good bands from tiny labels. it's an insult that their hasn't been a big money bidding war for katatonia. it boggles my mind. and what they choose to spend millions on is likewise just as mind-boggling.

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Katatonia just need to put out a rock radio-friendly power ballad like Three Days Grace or something, then they'll be in demand.

they've put out plenty of songs over the last ten years that are totally radio-ready. they just don't have money behind them. you need money.

On an unrelated note, is it common knowledge round these parts that John Dyer Baizley from Baroness did the art for the recent Flight of the Conchords album? (I just put 2 + 2 together myself, is why I'm asking.) Pretty cool!

hah, I saw an ad for the conchords album while walking around and did a double take! looked it up afterward and thought the same thing - pretty cool!

and the katatonia talk sadly reminds me of anathema. they never did break out of the metal ghetto, did they? despite obvs. wanting to SO BAD. their stuff is even more accessible than nu-katatonia's. (circa a fine day to exit, anyway. stopped listening since then.)

and to be clear, I did like a fine day to exit. just lost track of the band for whatever reason.

i agree totally. another band that should have been HUGE. *sigh* i dunno, i just love the idea of actual GREAT bands selling out theatres and stadiums and being popular. it used to happen! lots of bands were great and popular!

same here, by the way. i still listen to a fine day to exit and love it a lot, but i just never got the stuff after. still think they were one of the best rock bands of the 90's. let alone metal bands.

yeah, modern rock radio is totally weird but def not in a good way. just a big cesspool of the most generic no-names ever. totally depressing.

but maybe if anathema couldn't even keep two metal dudes on board after releasing such a solid album, it says something? now what it says, i couldn't tell you!

and wow, this katatonia IS great!

Anathema's attempts to reposition themselves made them sound kinda like Elbow iirc - really didn't think it was a good look on them

Cave In from 'Jupiter' onwards is a good example of breaking out the metal ghetto w/ your head held high, I think, though I guess they didn't have any radio hits or whatever and the beardo-metal/metalcore they busted out of is a bit of a different ballgame to what's being talked about anyway. But still.

wait, do these bands actually want to break out of "the metal ghetto"? i mean, isn't that the very definition of selling out in "their world"? maybe these guys don't actually want to be on a major label, you know? it's a shame either way.

also: let's not forget grunge/Nirvana damage... and Metallica damage, too.

gotta hear that there new Katatonia, tho.

"Cave In from 'Jupiter' onwards is a good example of breaking out the metal ghetto w/ your head held high"

I dunno. Seems like they've been licking their wounds for a few years now...

Would you believe that I love Opeth, work closely with Agalloch, but have never (knowingly) heard Katatonia? Should I start with this one?

i reckon start with 'brave murder day'. (i have not heard the new one tho')

whatever Scott thinks you should start off with will be the correct choice imo.

xp

I vote starting with this one, just because it was the first studio album I'd ever heard by them (I also heard the 2007 live album and liked that, but not as much as this).

brave murder day and discouraged ones will always be my faves, but i like it all pretty much. nate might want to check out the debut since he's a dooooooooom lover.

can't believe this song is 12 years old!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_UfoXQ3tic

where does the time go?

that guitar sound...

total heroin to me.

hey they reissued the first october tide record, right? everyone needs that too.

you can check out both october tide albums on youtube. they are both great. kinda like having 2 bonus katatonia albums under another name. brave murder day-era katatonia, that is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxM_K66prHY

wait, do these bands actually want to break out of "the metal ghetto"? i mean, isn't that the very definition of selling out in "their world"? maybe these guys don't actually want to be on a major label, you know? it's a shame either way.

maybe kind of a stupid phrase that I used there but I would say that, for anathema at least, there was definitely an attempt to appeal to a broader audience. and not because they had watered-down their sound but because the band had naturally evolved into something that really should have appealed to a broader audience if they were getting written-up in anything other than metal mags.

I don't consider that a sell out move but I'm sure some do. whateva.

and agreed with nate on cave in. I like jupiter just fine (or did when it came out, it's been a while) but the cold reception to that foo fighters-sounding album basically almost killed the band, right?

and brave murder day, discouraged ones, or the newest katatonia are all fine places to start. but try to listen to at least two! they're all fairly different animals.

Antenna killed them with the fans. They got the backing of the likes of Kerrang but the new fans were fairweather fans and didn't stick with them. The album was awful, one cd i wish i never bought.

Yeah I didn't make my point re Cave In very well... it was 8.30am here so hey. Jupiter was/is a good example of changing up what you do, sounding sincere about it (YMMV but I think so) and having people broadly accept the fact that you've moved on. I think most people would agree they haven't lived up to what potential 'Jupiter' had I guess... I never heard 'Antenna' I must admit

that's my point, tho: can a troo metal band still legitimately break out of the extreme metal ghetto, sell millions of records, and retain the respect of the EM fanbase and their peers in the underground? on a major label no less?

xps(?)

Not sure how close they are to seven-figure sales at this point but Mastodon haven't done a bad job of this all things considered... unless having a gaggle of dull shitfondlers grousing about you on messageboards negates the respect that you *do* still maintain, in which case the answer is no it is probably impossible

The only Katatonia I have is The Black Sessions-- am I getting a fair idea of them from that?

The more I listen to Aztlan Underground's self-titled album the more I wish anyone else here had heard it. Angry Mexican dudes doomgrunting in ancient native languages, then screamranting against churches and empires in English. Sometimes free-jazz metal, other times long twisty punk/prog stuff. Most exciting metal record of the year I think but what the hell do I know.

Managed to acquire that Arabrot EP. Loving it, although possibly only the title track is classically what might be thought of as metal?

http://www.myspace.com/aztlanunderground

sounds interesting but not very metal.

xp

Jupiter was Cave In's peak for me. I thought Until Your Heart Stops and Beyond Hypothermia were kinda baby-steps and even at their best Botch wiped the floor with 'em. So the move toward something more conventionally rock yet still mathy and awesome was a natural, and wise, choice. Had they recorded three albums in a row in that style they'd be revered today, I think.

xp to Ioannis: The two tracks there are not admittedly as metallic as other ones on the album like "Moztlitta" or "Smell the Dead."

yeah, i just listened to some snippets from the album and am now very curious indeed. excellent guitar sound, btw.

Has anyone else heard the album by the frankly ludicrously named Trippy Wicked & The Cosmic Children Of The Night? Dorset stoners with a kind of southern edge to them, not exactly revolutionary but right up the alley of a fair few people here, I supect.

The only Katatonia I have is The Black Sessions-- am I getting a fair idea of them from that?

I would say so, that's a really good look at their post-Brave Murder Day output (though you really should pick up BMD if you haven't heard it). But I think they really stepped things up with Viva Emptiness and The Great Cold Distance (an album I have yet to tire of), plus the performances of the older stuff on Live Consternation are superb.

the wolves in the throne room album from this year will be in my top 10 for sure.

Regarding Ioannis' question (several XPs), I think Slayer are a pretty good example of a band that managed this. (Maybe too obvious an example?) Even now, their sound feels fairly "extreme" to me, they're obviously beloved by extreme metal bands and the media who cover the scene, and they're big enough to play arenas. Katatonia, on the other hand, don't feel like extreme metal at all to me, except in reputation. I agree they should be much bigger than they are; I also think this album will be something of a breakthrough. It needs to be championed, though, by a Pitchfork (or someone like that): some mainstream media pub that has a readership that will follow the critical lead and dig the sound.

Funny thing is, though, Pitchfork will almost surely ignore Katatonia, yet they will give Krallice (coincidentally from Brooklyn!) a Best New Music tag (which it deserves, because it is in fact the best new music). And Pitchfork readers will listen to Krallice and (largely) ignore it because it is blindingly heavy, yet they won't be exposed to Katatonia, which a larger percentage of them would presumably "get."

Kinda took the word "still" in the question to mean we were looking for a reasonably contemporary example, like the last five years at most? I don't think Slayer are irrelevant to the issue, quite the opposite, but they'd done all their breaking out by like 1988

heathenfest was great, prob the first festival style thing where i liked everyone i saw (missed the opener because the dude at the venue lied to us when we called and asked what time doors were. jerk.) The big surprise was Vreid, who were just an amazing wall of sound.

Sad side is that it was really really poorly attended, esp compared to paganfest which normally sells out up here. club was maybe at 25% capacity.

XP to DJ Mencap: Whoops! I totally ignored the "still" in the question. Indeed, this narrows the field somewhat. (Though to be fair, I think this may be a greater issue in America than it is in European countries, and while metal in America is thriving on the fringes, it's not really a force in the mainstream *at all*, except in the cases of Metallica and Slayer.)

well sure, yeah, but the question really should apply to post 1st-gen-thrash extreme metal, i would think--you know, like death metal and beyond. the era most likely to be covered by Decibel basically.

xps

yup, i'd say the past five to ten years is what we're concerned with here.

many xps

and Mastodon is a great example, but they don't even consider themselves to be a metal band (in the troo sense) these days, right? plus they're nowhere near even mid-'80s Metallica-like sales/status, i don't think.