Van Morrison: your views please

I don't think I have ever met a single van morrison fan in person

anyway, yeah, I never got the "Veedon Fleece is a cousin to Astral Weeks" train of thought -- I think that might just be because neither of them have a real R&B flavor ... But both are great, no doubt about it. There was a Robyn Hitchcock single from the late 80s where he does both "Fair Play" and "Linden Arden" -- surprisingly beautiful stuff. I think Robyn starts off kinda making fun of Van, but seems to be swept away by the song as it continues ...

sure I own Astral Weeks and its pretty good and I heard Moondance and Brown-Eyed Girl a lot from the trustafarian hippies in college but ... I find this cult of his strange and mysterious

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xpost to shakey
that's funny, i know tons of van obsessives. my dad was one for starters, but Van was key to lots of ex-garage punk types I know who got into him through Them. He really did some amazing shit outside of astral weeks... If you think you hate Van, start with TB Sheets.
like 3rd/ Sisters Lovers, Blowin' yr Mind/ TB sheets has suffered from multiple versions and no set track listing; and the Blowin' yr Mind version misses the early RnB version of Madame George, which, in some moods i prefer to the AW one.

I think the best way to get everything he recorded between Them & Astral Weeks is on the Bang Masters comp, but I could be wrong... but yeah I have 3 records with slightly different line-ups of the songs on Blowin' Your Mind/TB Sheets. I like the one known as TB Sheets best (especially for the version of Madame George as you mention) but it's missing some good r&b stuff - especially "Send Your Mind" which is a great Them-styled stomper.

The only problem I remember with Bang Masters was that it included the alt.take of "He Ain't Give You None" and not the original.

I heard about that Hitchcock single but have never seen it anywhere. I got to thinking it was just a rumor.

I remember a friend bought a copy of a remastered Veedon Fleece a few years back but I haven't looked in years. Weird how what you see tons of one day is suddenly rare the next.

Most Van Morrison fans never leave their homes. I don't think I've ever seen a Van Morrison T-Shirt. I don't think I would wear one.

Count me in on the Veedon Fleece train. His vocal performance on Linden Arden Stole the Highlights is simply stunning-- which is saying a lot considering who we're talking about.

The thing that will make me an apologist for Van Morrison (at least his music) forever, is Beside You on AW. That song, the lyrics, the overall performance, everything...seems to have originated from some deep, haunted visionary place; there is some transhuman perspective going on there or something, like he's merely functioning as a mouthpiece for some urgent communication of nonetheless eternal archetypes. (which sounds like complete bullocks, I realize, but, never mind my clumsiness...give the song a listen, fucking amazing). Unfortunately, some of his late 70's and eighties stuff and whatever came later sounds as though he was forever trying to tap into that primal source once more, and failing to do so.

In any case, as noted upthread, Van Morrison is no "hippie" (whatever that even means). The man sings about TB, a forlorn transvestite, a young girl dying from junk, an obsession with an underage girl, etc.

Who Was That Masked Man from VF is amazing, too. Van does falsetto...

Spent a lot of today listening to bits and pieces of Van / Them records - something which hasn't, i think, been mentioned is the lovely sense of geographical precision in which he places the 'eternal archetypes' - , 'that train from Dublin up to Sandy Row' (I think of that line everytime i go to Belfast), even earlier in the Story of Them ' the Spanish Rooms up on the Falls' 'the Blues rolling down Royal Avenue, all the way past City Hall' - then on to London 'Watch the sun rise over Notting Hill Gate' ' in Friday's Child.....

The Stones did this a bit, I guess, setting their pilfered Rn'B loose in London and watching it learn the language, but I think Van was the most pigheadedly local of that generation of RnB singers from these islands; even the way, when he's trying to sing American, it always slips back to Belfast. I think, in a way, this is what allows him to inhabit a 'deep haunted visionary place' so convincingly - he renders the ordinary and the particular transcendent by making it strange, forcing us to look, rather than by mystical generalisation..

Nicely put, and I agree. Something like the "objective correlative", maybe? Or maybe I'm completely misusing that term...

Interesting. Geography -- or specific namedropping -- does play quite a role. Later works like On Hyndfort Street...and then the photo on Hymns to the Silence filling in the rest for those of us with no idea where he's talking about. I often wonder if my old non-descript neighborhoods could be transformed that way. I've also loved how he'll mention Kerouac, Mezz Mezrow and his perennials William Blake, T.S. Eliot...

I always assume Masked Man is Morrison doing Curtis Mayfield. And Linden Arden blows me away...glad to see so many others are equally gripped.

For me it's always been his vocal tics and not necessarily the ones that Lester Bangs pointed out in his essay. In this day of computer looping of tracks and complete vocal lines being recorded once and then copied, it's so much more rewarding to hear vocals that are inspired and spontaneous and happen only once...for me, in Cyrpus Avenue when he sings "That little girl done something" (is that even what he's singing. I'm awful with this stuff). And the "Rainbow ribbons in her hair." There are so many quick turns of phrase.

I understand when others say they can't get into the later work, starting, I would guess, with Wavelength (though A Period of Transition is pretty spotty as well). But if you can accept that it is a bit more trying and forced than his earlier work there is stuff to hear. I'm fond of "Hungry for Your Love," "Take It Where You Find It," even "Natalia" which sounds like he's taking lessons from Boz Scaggs (not a bad thing, but not really Van's thing).

I think the reason it bothers me less is because I heard those records (Wavelength, Into the Music, Beautiful Vision) much earlier than Astral Weeks, Dominic, Fleece... so it was introductory and I didn't have any expectations. And I think you're always a bit forgiving to the records that introduce you to an artist, even if they pale later on. And I probalby hear them a little differently. The production just seems like it's there, but I could see how others already schooled in the differences might take stronger note of them.

I often wonder if my old non-descript neighborhoods could be transformed that way

believe me, the Streets of Arklow aren't all that descript. It's a wonder what he does to quite ordinary places.

I think, in a way, this is what allows him to inhabit a 'deep haunted visionary place' so convincingly - he renders the ordinary and the particular transcendent by making it strange, forcing us to look, rather than by mystical generalisation..

-- sonofstan, Thursday, 27 September 2007 22:26

This is so fucking OTM.

yup.

If you think you don't like Van Morrison, try the live record It's Too Late to Stop Now...unbelievably great

i find how assholish he apparently is part of the appeal, he seems like the least likeable major star like ever....yet he writes these really warm songs that are sort of intergenerational classics, it's odd....

from M@tt upthread and OTM. I always find it strange how such an angry miserable SOB could deliver such heartfelt & flat-out joyous music -- think Brown-Eyed Girl, Wild Nights, Jackie Wison Said, Angeliou, Tupelo Honey, etc. Must be some rare variant of the tears of a clown personality -- misanthropes make the best happy music.

I always find it strange how such an angry miserable SOB could deliver such heartfelt & flat-out joyous music

Yeah - i know people who've worked for him and it's no holiday camp.
I think really, we should take the line from Astral Weeks about being 'Nothin' but a stranger in this world' literally - he has the sensibility of an outsider artist but, rarely, the talent to express it; it may be that the world he makes is the only one he can live in.

'the talent to express it in a - relatively - conventional medium' i guess

He is almost like a comedy stereotype of the bad-tempered belligerent Ulster Proddie with 12 chips on each shoulder

new record is awesome

I like Gerry's opening post!

i didnt realize there were so many haters..on th new lost highway cd...which th russians have a copy of already..hes loose and sly and fun and fat and good and u should get it maybe

almost independence day is dope as fuck

glad to see this has turned into a veedon fleece lovefest. side 1 just blows me away every time. I managed to get it on CD a few years back after a cassette copy wasn't returned to me (never lend favourite albums, even to good friends). Don't know about current availability.

I wish the doing all of Astral Weeks live US tour was not so expensive(with first dibs to American Express car holders).

Veedon Fleece has come out remastered, with lyrics and two bonus cuts: Twilight Zone and an alternate take of Cul De Sac.

so sad that "Warm Love" clip got removed (a while ago, but still). the only CD I want to actually physically purchase these days is Saint Dominic's Preview--title track might be my favorite-ever Van recording.

Misspelled:
Van Morris(s)on: The Smooth Jazz Years

they used to play "best of van morrison" in the health food store EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY, till i was sure i would never ever voluntarily listen to the guy again. but a roommate a few years later on insisted i listened to veedon fleece before i wrote the guy off, and i'm glad he did cause it's now one of my all-time favorite albums. reading this thread makes me realize i need to track down some of his other stuff as well (now i'm trying to remember which album it was that i liked almost as much as VF)

I love "Real Real Gone." His eighties and late nineties work needs reevaluation.

*in the health food store i worked in for 2 frikkin years

lindon arden stole the hiiiiighlight!

would highly recommend Common One to Veedon Fleece fans ... not quite the same deal, but a sorta similar vibe. Anyway, that is probably my fave Post-70s Van record. And I only heard it for the first time last year! Nice, long songs, some jazzier bits, great singing.

The later stuff is well patchy. Typical track: long slow lugubrious jam, Van grunting and reciting list of poets, gardens wet with rain, etc...
St Dominic's, as mentioned above, has some great things - jackie wilson said, title track, I will be There, some bizarre stuff (lion impressions) and some less memorable stuff towards the end.

There is no better brunch album than Poetic Champions Compose.

I have always enjoyed Tupelo Honey (the song).The album is pretty good as well.

they used to play "best of van morrison" in the health food store EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY, till i was sure i would never ever voluntarily listen to the guy again

cosign. it took me about a decade to recover

Put on Common One and then Miles' In a Silent Way. They flow perfectly. If picking up on CD, be sure to to wait for the remastered versions. They aren't coming with an excess of bonus material but a couple tracks and the sound is improved. And they're coming out in no logical order -- starting with His Band and Street Choir up through the past few years. (Van doesn't own Astral Weeks or Moondance outright so they're not part of this...) I don't think St. Dom's is out remastered yet. And to add to the confusion, some are out in the UK, I'm told.

Morrison treated his band and crew horribly. In the midst of "Fair Play," one of a handful of non-"Astral" tunes in the set, he decided he didn't like the tempo and screamed at his drummer to switch from brushes to sticks. Morrison was close enough to the microphone that the crowd couldn't avoid taking in the humiliation. He later summoned a roadie to the center of the stage to move his microphone and music stands a few feet away from him, then screamed an obscenity at him while telling him to leave the stage. Then Morrison launched into "In the Garden," a 1986 spiritual glorious enough to get him right with God, flaws and all.

From Dave McKenna's Washington Post review of Morrison on his current Astral Weeks tour

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/07/AR2009080703207.html

Ha! My friend got a refund from a show on the Astral Weeks tour because he didn't play any songs from Astral Weeks!

I'm surprised not to see more love for "Moondance" (the album) on here. That strikes me as a solid piece of work - but maybe I'm a sucker for pop-R&B with horn arrangements.

oh yeah "Moondance" can't be denied! Might just be too obvious ... but I love that record. So many good songs, wonderful vibe. Some of it is overplayed, but whenever I put it on, I love it.

Yeah, I guess it's always unfashionable to like something that's universally popular - better to pick out the obscure release only known to hardcore fans. But screw that, I say. Good music is good music.

speaking of obscure, if you only own one Van bootleg, here's the one: http://moonglampers.net/blog/2009/02/10/van-morrison-ksan-1971/ Don't know if the link still works, but seek it out elsewhere, if not!

it is sooooo good. "Friday's Child", "Just Like A Woman" ... Can't believe it hasn't been officially released. I vastly prefer it to "It's Too Late ..." (which is good, but not this good)

man this is good...though don't talk down about my baby!!! (being it's too late to stop now)

"Then Morrison launched into "In the Garden," a 1986 spiritual glorious enough to get him right with God, flaws and all."

such a great song. i said this somewhere else last week, but no guru no method no teacher is up there with any of my fave 60's or 70's van records. i love the whole thing from front to back. so beautiful.

don't talk down about my baby!!!
no, I don't mean to diss It's Too Late -- that is one of the best live records of the 70s, no doubt. But that bootleg is kinda unbelievable. Wait til you get to the Dylan cover!

listening now this is really great.....

sounds different though from It's Too Late, band doesn't seem as big in terms of number of players maybe...

I need No Guru No Method No Teacher and Common One

Is Hard Nose to the Highway good?

http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/v/van-morrison/album-hard-nose-the-highway.jpg
it's got a terrible cover, but otherwise, yeah, it's good!

last song "Purple Heather" is A+ Van