Search & Destroy: Sun Ra

Destroy: jazz recommendations from soul-less people.

Search: Atlantis. Title track finally fulfills fantasies I had of what Sun Ra would sound like: alien, cold, forbidding, etc. The rest of the album is pretty good too.

Destroy. Pictures of Infinity. Not really bad, but also not spectacular live album. Classic wrong entry album that makes you go "is this what all the fuss is about?"

Additional recommendations: Monorails and Satellites, Sun Ra playing solo piano. Like many Sun Ra recordings, this took a few listens (in this case separated over a number of years) before I came to appreciate it.

Other Planes of There. I don't know why this seems to be considered less accessible than Atlantis or the Magic City, both of which are too chaotic-sounding for me (at least in their title tracks). This starts off a bit more spare than the title tracks from those albums. There are some difficult moments, but overall I like it. The recording quality on the title track is perhaps "cruder" than that on "Heliocentric Worlds vol.I:," but I find it warmer, though I can't explain how such lonely and alienated sounding music can also be warm. At times I think I hear echoes of Varese (sp?). It includes "Pleasure" which always blows my mind. The last rack, which maintains more or less a waltz rhythm throughout is probably my least favorite on the album, but it's pretty good.

Angels and Demons at Play/The Nubians of Plutonia is a pretty accessible and enjoyable CD. (Did I just say anything there? Probably not.) Fate in a Pleasant Mood/When Sun Comes Out is also good. The first album is relatively straight, while the second one gets into more "uncompromising sonic exploration" sort of territory. The rediscovered bonus track of Marshall Allen playing clarinet is a treat. It sounds like he is work on a theme very close to one that appears on one or more other tracks (elsewhere), possibly "Next Stop Mars."

Destroy? I'm reluctant to say destroy anything, since Sun Ra albums I didn't like have often grown on me. I am less keen on his live albums in general than a lot of Sun Ra fans seem to be, though I love seeing the Arkestra live.

Correction: John Gilmore plays clarinet on this track.

Incidentally, Marshall Allen's Arrival Day is this Saturday (the 25th). It will be celebrated at the Tritone in Philadelphia.

I just found out that Szwed has a Miles Davis book coming out this year. Oh happy day!

The ideal starting point is the soundtrack to the Ra movie (can't remeber name). There's a lot of varied material there and it serves as a sort of Ra comp.

I like the group improvisations and the stuff he does with his moog (big slabs of noise: a take no prisoners approach there). Will have to get more records and the biog. Swzed is a good writer.

''in the credits to the ra movie (remake: Queen of the Damned) is the name WILLIAM DHALGREN: this has always intrigued me''

Why?

THESE records shop has a rack fully devoted to Ra (one of the guys who runs it absolutely worships him). That's where i got that CD from. Google it, they run a mail order service.

In a similar vein, I recently got "Black Myth/Out in Space" - "Out In Space" being another electronic maelstrom, this time lasting almost 38 minutes! Believe me, not a CD for the faint-hearted!

I have to confess however that I'm not a tremendous fan of his so- called "great" albums from the mid-60's: "Magic City", "Heliocentric Worlds", "Atlantis". I think these albums are remarkable but I don't find myself listening to them very often - they're more to be admired than loved. Certainly, if you're looking for jazz don't look at the "Heliocentric Worlds" albums - these are probably the least "jazz" jazz albums I've ever heard, closer in fact to Varese or even Boulez.

I have to confess however that I'm not a tremendous fan of his so- called "great" albums from the mid-60's: "Magic City", "Heliocentric Worlds", "Atlantis". . . . Certainly, if you're looking for jazz don't look at the "Heliocentric Worlds" albums - these are probably the least "jazz" jazz albums I've ever heard, closer in fact to Varese or even Boulez.

I don't really like those albums either. (I have only heard one of Heliocentric volumes, but I own the other volume and the other two titles mentioned.) Have you heard "Other Planes of There"? The title track covers somewhat similar material to "Heliocentric Worlds" but is much warmer and less rigid sounding. I don't mind jazz that doesn't sound much like jazz, per se, but I share your lack of enthusiasm for these albums.

I enjoyed 'Exotic Forest'. A constant bassline but lovely 'middle eastern' blowing (cliche alert!) and rolling percussion. And whenever sun ra plays on that piano (he sounds like a classical pianist who had burnt his hands but was still able to play) the music would change direction.

Definetely need to listen more. There's much more but i need to go to sleep.

anyway, will get some more recs soon...

Generally when I read that something sounds "middle eastern" in a published review, I find that it either sounds only very vaguely middle eastern or it doesn't sound middle eastern at all. (For instance "Circe" from "When Sun Comes Out" doesn't sound like anything a middle eastern singer would do, though the liner notes describe it that way.)

I'll try to track some of this stuff down (yet some more for the record pile but I need to visit the 'world music' section at tower anyway).

I don't care much for Flamenco singing, which sounds to me like degenerate Arabic singing (not that I am saying it really is, but to my Arabicized ears, it kind of sounds that way); but I do like the guitar. Where I take salsa classes, there is also a Flamenco dance class. The teacher's husband is a guitarist who plays for the class. When I first heard him playing I was amazed by how good he is. I did kind of a double take, like, wow, this guy is actually really good, not just the teacher's husband who happens to play a little guitar or something. In fact, do you know much about Flamenco guitar, because that's something I'd be interested in hearing recommendations for? (I probably should get off my butt and be daring and go to a little bar at the edge of what used to be the barrio, where this guitarist sometimes accompanies his wife, etc.)

yeah...i've looked into flamenco guitarists but I can't remember any names (i think there was a webpage somewhere, I suppose I feel a thread coming).

If not, could somebody hurry up and do it?

there WAS a bootleg about a year ago but i was assured this was official. i don't really know what to believe with rough trade cos it all depends who you speak to. try the scot with the beard. i assume you went to the covent garden one with the tramps and the cheese and the skaters and whatnot

if all fails i'll dub it 4 u

yes, I went to the covent garden shop.

muhaha in that case i will get a another copy and flog it on eBay

High points from "Live at the Wonder Inn": a performance of "Angels and Demons at Play" and "How High the Moon." The latter, of course, is just the sort of "material in a traditional jazz vein" I was talking about, but I like it nevertheless. I think I like this song now. I notice that during much of "Spontaneous Simplicity," someone is playing a clave rhythm. I have heard something close to the clave rhythm before in Sun Ra songs, but I don't think I've ever heard it played this overtly.

The sound on "The Majestic Session" is a little more problematic. When the music gets loud and all musicians are playing simultaneously, the distortion is pretty bad. It's a pity, since the energy is definitely there. I like Sun Ra's solo at the beginning of "Velvet," though it's hard to make it out. I haven't quite sorted through the four pieces titled "Majestic" 1-4. I think my favorite is the 4th.

I like the CD as a package (aside from the nasty adhesive which doesn't want to come off). The liner notes are good, and there are some very cool photos from the Wonder Inn. (For a more adequate review, check the one somebody who knows a lot mroe than I do posted on amazon.com.)

how about all of the supposedly 200-odd el-saturn lps out there that aren't re-issued ? anybody got some saturn vinyl they'd like to mention ? ok, recommending these odd small-run bootleg type lps would be pointless, but if everyone here had one real el-saturn piece of vinyl, it might be a different one from anyone else's here, hopefully

200+ privately issued lps -- some very limited, issued casually at gigs from the '60s to the '80s -- let's hear about the ones that haven't made it to the re-issue process and maybe may never re-appear -- made it into anyone's collection ?

how about it ? not s/d, more a special swap meet on saturn ?
some el-saturn record that you and possibly you alone might be able to say something about ..

i dunno my back is starting to hurt something fierce!!

you should have had your manager work free beer into the deal !

Lol, that Egypt box sounds so good!

https://sunrastrut.bandcamp.com/album/swirling

This should be fun

"seductive fantasy" sounds amazing

Found out that people are selling the 3cd Singles set for £11.50 online. That is a reduction on its initial price isn't it?

Anyway will soon have both versions of the singles.

Found out that people are selling the 3cd Singles set for £11.50 online. That is a reduction on its initial price isn't it?
I believe so. I noticed this on Amazon, ebay and elsewhere that it was marked down quite a bit. (Last I checked, the label itself was selling low-priced copies on discogs.) I picked up a copy from moviemars for really cheap myself. It's possible they're clearing out overstock and it's not going out-of-print, but anyone who's been thinking of getting this should do so now because even if stays in-print, it'll probably creep back up in price.

I was getting excited seeing all of these Egypt 71 posts on twitter and instagram, but of course it's one of those stupid fucking Record Store Day exclusives. Only $165 on discogs right now. I hate this stupid fake holiday.

I thought I got a set called Egypt 71 from Honest John's several years ago

you may be thinking of the 80's set with Salah Ragab

THere wee 2 sets reissued by Art Yard Horizon and a 2fer of Nidhamu + Dark Myth Equation Visitation not sure if I got one or both of those.

In 1971, in Denmark, at the end of a tour, Sun Ra suddenly decided to take his whole band to Egypt. They had no concerts and no contacts there, but Ra sold some recording rights to Black Lion to pay for the tickets and they flew out. They were stopped at customs and their instruments were temporarily impounded, but they were let through as tourists. Then they booked into a hotel facing the pyramid at Giza. Word got to Hartmut Geerken, then working at the Goethe institute, and he quickly threw a concert together at his house in Heliopolis, for which Brigadier Salah Ragab borrowed army instruments for the Arkestra to play (he was later disciplined for it). Ra's Moog had made it through customs and a Tiger Organ was hired. One of the audience (of 25) booked the band in for a Cairo TV session the following day. Then Ragab persuaded the Ministry of Culture to book a concert at the Balloon Theatre (for another tiny audience: only the first 4 rows were occupied). Two more concerts followed -- at the American University (for the cab fare) and the Versailles Club. They stayed for more than a fortnight, making a film while they were there and finally, by band-members selling various personal items, raised the money to fly home. Horizon (also known as Starwatchers and Sun Ra in Egypt Vol. 2) contains a big chunk of the now legendary Balloon Theatre concert (it burned down soon after their visit, as did the hotel in which the Arkestra stayed while they were in Cairo). The Balloon extract is an uncut block (tracks 1- 4 on the CD) and features a lot of Sun Ra's all-hell-let-loose Moog soloing, as well as a great version of 'Discipline #2.' The rest of Horizon is from the Heliopolis concert, kicking off with an instrumental version of 'Enlightenment' and 'Love In Outer Space,' (neither are on the original LP) segueing slowly into 'Space Is The Place' -- followed by drum orchestra, more Ra soloing on Moog, Tiger Organ and detuned piano (bloops, hoovering, whistles, Concords taking off) leading to a first lurching, then wild, 'Discipline #8.' Two bonus tracks, for the first time restored from the original concert, follow: 'We'll Wait For You' (with June Tyson) and 'The Satellites Are Spinning' -- which ends in full-on percussion. A classic recording of a classic band in great form."

that was from the forcedexposure page, not sure where it was being quited from but its between sets of quotation marks.

this is really hard to parse but it looks like the Egypt 71 box is coming out on CD in November?

https://sunrastrut.bandcamp.com/album/egypt-1971

looks like maybe just the unreleased material on CD, and the three original LPs will be available as individually-reissued vinyl releases ?

ah that makes (a little) more sense, thanks

however many extra box sets they got sold out in minutes, I looked 45 minutes after the email and they were gone

https://sunrastrut.bandcamp.com/album/swirling

this is fabulous!

Does anyone know anything about this book? http://artyardrecords.co.uk/its-after-the-end-of-the-world-by-gerald-jenkins/

sweet new single with 2 unreleased tracks

https://sunrastrut.bandcamp.com/album/sun-ra-quartet-featuring-john-gilmore-the-sky-is-a-sea-of-darkness-when-there-is-no-sun-to-light-the-way

My Egypt 1971 CD set finally showed up this week, it’s great so far. Really digging the weirdo synth stuff at the end of the first disc.

I didn't realize Marshall Allen still lives in the Sun Ra house in Germantown!

https://whyy.org/articles/jazz-legend-after-house-partially-collapses-gets-help-from-philanthropist-neighbors/

The fact that he still lives is already notable.

Unexpected Sun Ra update:

They're selling a 3CD complete album set in Edinburgh Woollen Mill for £4.99

Super-Sonic Jazz (Saturn)
Jazz by Sun Ra (Transition)
Jazz in Silhouette (Saturn)

Their James Pringle cardigans are nothing to sniff at either

Visiting Paris, seeing them Sunday night!

Sun Ra's house now a Philadelphia historic landmark
https://www.phillyvoice.com/sun-ra-house-philadelphia-historic-landmark-designation-germantown-arkestra/

Marshall Allen is still incredible at nearly 100. See them if you can!

Saw them open for Parquet Courts in 2018 - between both acts, it was one of the best shows I've ever seen.

"Sleeping Beauty" is one of the greatest compositions in any genre ever.

Sun Ra's Full Lecture & Reading List From His 1971 UC Berkeley Course, "The Black Man in the Cosmos" (Open Culture) : https://t.co/IdxXCyF2MS pic.twitter.com/nDKC3XWth2

— reaktorplayer (@reaktorplayer) July 29, 2022

Does anybody remember what year Sun Ra played Brixton Academy in the early to mid 80s. I thought I would find it with a simple google search but not finding a gigography that stretches back that far. Seeing listings for Academy cutting out in the late 80s.
Have been hoping i might be able to find out what he/they were playing. Should still be in a period where they were playing some really great space funk but also when he was doing gigs based in a more classic jazz style. I have some recordings from the time of the latter but do think I prefer the former.

according to setlist.fm he played there on 15 June 1984.

this Facebook post also refers to it.

this ad for it suggests the set style -- GLC always there w/the funk!:

Sun Ra headlines 3 days of jazz, funk, Latin, African and more... NME, 26 May 1984. #NME #MyLifeInTheUKMusicPress #1984 pic.twitter.com/cCeiZHfjRr

— nothingelseon (@nothingelseon) December 11, 2019

He played The Venue in Victoria Street (near Victoria Station) in 1982 and again in 1983, and the Fridge (Brixton) in 1985 -- with yrs truly reviewing lol (do not read if you hate me/want to post this on worst-music-writing-of-all-time thread etc)

Live! Sun Ra! The Chills! Three Johns! NME, 23 November 1985. #NME #MyLifeInTheUKMusicPress #1985 pic.twitter.com/eGILcKEka3

— nothingelseon (@nothingelseon) July 28, 2020

(@nothingelseon is a good resource for nme and mm ads, there's another guy who does pages from sounds)

ok thanks
Seems like it must have been a good one.

@dubdobdee wuz there: in the Fridge w @SunRaUniverse : (finding chaos under the sleek hood of taste &) "They pretend to indiscipline...they work for their fun here...it's the way it has to be." https://t.co/1HOByFZe0A

— Don Allred (@0wlred) August 27, 2022

Great review Mark! That Chills review was a stinker tho

I'm hoping that someone somewhere might have the audio of that night in June 84 cos I don't think I've seen it in the time I've been torrenting. Which is like 16 years.
Have heard some of his more classic jazz sets from the time which are pretty good and wondered to what extent a particular lineup of the band changed the sound o fa tune from 30 years or more earlier. Assuming that it was largely the same lineups playing the deep space funk and these standards etc anyway. Like if experience playing other musics put new slants on interpretation etc.
Do prefer the deep space funk but the standards and other older songs were done pretty well anyway.

I think I was still thinking that he was a pretty out free jazz player at the time so may have shaped my hearing of the set if he didn't get weirdly out. But have listened a lot more widely since. I think I enjoyed the set but probably didn't think it was quite up to like Say or the noisier parts of live at Montreux or something. So would love to get to listen back

https://www.library.upenn.edu/events/kislak-stacks/collecting-sun-ra

Zoom event tomorrow (Oct. 20 noon) with John Szwed talking about assembling an archive of Sun Ra recordings.

Thanks for sharing!

Marshall Allen interview - 100 years young this year!

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2024/feb/02/a-man-cannot-learn-without-discipline-jazz-guru-marshall-allen-on-life-with-sun-ra-and-turning-100