― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 11 July 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
But Kula Shaker probably were born in 1972
― jamesmichaelward, Thursday, 11 July 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Robin Carmody, Thursday, 11 July 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Nate Patrin, Thursday, 11 July 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Michael Daddino, Thursday, 11 July 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
back! back! back!
http://arts.independent.co.uk/music/features/article2991258.ece
those kulkarni reviews up there are fucking godhead.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 24 September 2007 09:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
He's still only 34? Fuck me.
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 24 September 2007 09:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
kulkarni's indie gig review is one of the most pissed-off pieces of music-writing i've ever seen, and although it's largely successful, i'd rather see his fire directed at the current crop of View Monkey Enemies, or Just Kate Allens.
― Just got offed, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
well yeah, but um the melody maker folded, the nme is shit, and the mainstream media seem to be more keen on employing each other's nephews and nieces (etc.), and they'd never throw that kind of heat down on a hyped act. maybe some bullshit website or everett true vanity project would print it, but that's not the same thing.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
http://www.drownedinsound.com/user/view/46684
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
only one thing to do: bring it down from within. go undercover y/n
(it would take a monumental effort not to be sacked within a week for slating a band they're meant to promote)
dom, you've made a good start, but SFG are small fry. let's raise the sights, shall we?
― Just got offed, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
i am probably talking shit re they don't do that any more -- it's just those two reviews, especially the 1995 one, i can *still* remember, so they matter to me a great deal.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:21 (5 years ago) Permalink
Kulkinari is the only writer from the mid 90s NME/MM axis that I would still bother going back and reading, _but_ his musical taste was dreadful and Sleeper were actually better than any band he used to plug of his own accord (lol monster magnet lol).
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
it's A-OK to slag off James Blunt and Athlete in the modern music presses, but if you DARE touch our new young Sheffield darlings....
to blanket-murk indie like that probably doesn't take into account the fact that there may have been some good songs, and hey, i even LIKE 'hollow man' (last track on K) if not the rest of the album. i guess you need a measure of absolutism to make people sit up and notice (not to mention strengthen your rhetorical thrust).
― Just got offed, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- Dom Passantino, Monday, September 24, 2007 11:23 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
think he liked wu-tang clan. iirc the wu came to london c. 96-7 and MM put them on the cover. kulkarni did the story. i don't think he really got to interview them though. it was kind of confusing...
taylor parkes is worth going back for. and johnny cigarettes invented lol britpop zing culture, no?
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
I thought Neil had (still has I'm sure) great taste, at least in its range which was quite rare in the more visible writers of the time. He was pretty obviously a product of John Peel so to speak.
Didn't realise that was your review Dom, my friend actually emailed it to me to say how good it was (I don't read DiS much)
― DJ Mencap, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
NK was the first indie press writer to go to bat for R&B music as well, wasn't he? Or at least R&B that wasn't Janet Jackson.
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
him and steven wells, probably.
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:44 (5 years ago) Permalink
actually simon price, big booster of 'crazysexycool' iirc.
This reviewer is so ageist he should never have been allowed to be one.
The 90s was badly in need of retro music. Hip-hop and house/electronica was about to destroy music, and Britpop was needed to re-estalish the tune ass all that mattered again.
Kula Shaker may not be particularly good but they should not be critized for being retro and writing proper tunes, because that's just a positive thing.
― Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
the tune ass
― Just got offed, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
I heard Geir Hongro wants to kill all black people. Confirm/deny?
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
you've made a good start, but SFG are small fry
Scouting for Girls have the number 12 album this week unfortunately.
Dom, Monster Magnet are great!
― Raw Patrick, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
I used to go to school with a girl who had a... that guy from Monster Magnet (Dave something) poster on all of her workbooks and folders. She was about 6'3". They sucked.
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
Covering ALL yr folders in MM is going too far I admit. You have to leave some to cover in Kyuss posters.
― Raw Patrick, Monday, 24 September 2007 11:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
It's a satanic drug thing, you wouldn't understand
xpost
― DJ Mencap, Monday, 24 September 2007 11:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
This is not about skin colour. Black people should also write proper tunes, and when they do they do it just as great as white people.
― Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 11:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
"And that's the end of that chapter"
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 24 September 2007 11:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
Kula Shaker weren't that bad in retrospect. Oasis were actually worse than Kula Shaker, I think (worse tunes, stupider lyrics - some achievement! - more derivative, dreary plodding feel) Athlete are far worse than Kula Shaker, Scouting for Girls are are worse than Kula Shaker by a distance as great as the distance between the 2 farthest points in the galaxy. I suspect most 2nd division britpop and nearly all lammo music is not only worse than Kula Shaker, but actually much worse. (this is not saying much I know)
― Pashmina, Monday, 24 September 2007 11:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
<i>Kulkinari is the only writer from the mid 90s NME/MM axis that I would still bother going back and reading, _but_ his musical taste was dreadful and Sleeper were actually better than any band he used to plug of his own accord (lol monster magnet lol).</i>
i have just discovered that jw locked the 'RONG' thread on nb, so let me just say RONG, and that monster magnet>>>>>>sleeper, and that kulkarni is deathlessly genius. his musical taste was fucking dead sharp, and i own many fine albums thans to his advice.
― stevie, Monday, 24 September 2007 11:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
Man, if ONLY we still had an ILXor who was capable of starting Sleeper vs American rock band threads....
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 24 September 2007 11:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
Kula Shaker should be judged by the only criteria that matters, their melodies, which is were they fall short of - among others - Oasis by ripping off old Stone Roses songs and calling them their own.
― Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 11:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
ripping off old Stone Roses songs
How dare they steal those original Roses tunes.
― onimo, Monday, 24 September 2007 11:54 (5 years ago) Permalink
"...fashion journalist Alexis Petridis in The Guardian..."
Ha ha ha 10/10 Dom.
Oasis entire career has been based on lifting other bands' songs, Geir!
― Pashmina, Monday, 24 September 2007 11:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
Oasis are lifting riffs, Stone Roses are lifting actual melodic lines. Important difference. "Into The Blue" is an entire lift of "Bye Bye Badmen". Oasis were only influenced by, say, the piano theme from "Imagine" without ever copying it note for note.
― Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
Lots of hip-hop tunes are based upon lifting riffs or tunes from older tunes note for note though. Which is one of the reasons why hip-hop is inferior.
― Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
Surely a great tune stays a great tune? In fact, copying an extant magical melidy is the best thing to do.
― Raw Patrick, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
melody, obv.
Surely a great tune stays a great tune?
But when it is composed it is composed and it doesn't need to be recomposed.
It's better to compose a new tune in the exact same style, and chances are it may be a great tune too.
― Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
Geir is on his hobby horse here and shouldn't be encouraged (I kinda thought he'd grown past some of these ideas but I guess getting misty-eyed for britpop has reawakened the zealot in him), but I can't help myself: Geir between the sort of "theft? tribute!" melodic cribbing that Oasis does and sampling, I know the latter seems more creative to me. Oasis picks your pocket and tries to look innocent; hip hop folds your dollar a half-dozen times and hands in back to you in a shape you wouldn't have guessed at. Lifting a riff honestly and recontextualizing it = writing; aping a style or two as Oasis did = pastiche.
― J0hn D., Monday, 24 September 2007 12:30 (5 years ago) Permalink
Pastiche is musical genius.
― Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
And a good tune shouldn't be changed or "shaped" it should be kept the way the composer intended it.
― Geir Hongro, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
most composers, including Beethoven, Chopin, and all the romantics you claim to like, disagree strongly with you on this point, as the use of a theme by another composer is a time- and tradition-honored practice; the only constant is that one does not keep the melody "the way the composer intended it," as to do so would be pointless. That is to say: most composers would say your assertion there is nonsense.
― J0hn D., Monday, 24 September 2007 12:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
ban geir
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
but Oasis used the stolen melodies in a real kind of interesting way by bolting them to a shoegaze / drone rock non dynamic tempered with the first wave of over compression made them more than whatever parts they were a sum of. maybe. i wrote a proper piece about this, but it's bad form to link yr own pieces on ilx isn't it. it's like oasis changed the form but not the content or something.
― acrobat, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
BAN GEIR BAN GEIR BAN GEIR BAN GEIR BAN GEIR BAN GEIR BAN GEIR
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
i wrote a proper piece about this, but it's bad form to link yr own pieces on ilx isn't it
Let's hope no-one tries to do this on this thread
― DJ Mencap, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:52 (5 years ago) Permalink
in all seriousness, ban geir
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:54 (5 years ago) Permalink
Wellllllll...
Oasis reduced the whole of the alternate/indie sector to "top ten hits, anything else isn't good enough" and all the inventive / quirky / etc bedrock disappeared.
― Mark G, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
His age hasn't prevented him from still talking bollocks though, I notice.
― Ned Trifle II, Monday, 24 September 2007 12:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
sign my petition to get a Geir Hongro quote into Bartlett's
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 01:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
i guess my point is that there's still journalistic validity in a completely biased review -- as long as it's entertaining and not just bile for the sake of it.
If I wrote a really entertaining and very biased review, slaughtering an otherwise critically acclaimed hip-hop album because it didn't have any great newly composed tunes and had way too little melody and way too much rhythm, then it would be really great and useful? For hip-hop fans even?
― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 09:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
High time we made a stand and shook up The views of the common man DJ'ss the man we love the most Could you be, could you be squeaky clean And smash any hope of democracy? As the headline says youre free to choose Theres an egg on your face and mud on your shoes One of these days theyre gonna call it the blues
And anything is possible when your'e Sowing the seeds of love Anything is possible Sowing the seeds of love
I spy tears in their eyes They look to the skies for some kind Of divine intervention Food goes to waste! So nice to eat, so nice to taste Politician grannie with you r high ideals Have you no idea how the majority feels? So without love and a promised land Were fools to the rules of a government plan Kick out the style: bring back the jam
Anything is possible when...
Sowing the seeds The birds and the bees My girlfriend and me in love Feel the pain Talk about it If youre a worried man Then shout about it Open hearts Feel about it Open minds Think about it Everyone Read about it Everyone Scream about it! Everyone Everyone Everyone Read about it Read about it Read it in the books in the crannies And the nooks there are books to read
― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 09:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
depends on your definition of 'entertaining' really.
To take your point slightly, what you really want in this situation is someone who can say "I really like white guitar based melodic poo, so understand me chillun, when I say that this Kula Shaker album is a pile of crap and even Cast are better"
sort of thing.. right?
(post certified sarcasm-free)
― Mark G, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 10:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
Yes. (Except Cast isn't better) ;)
― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 10:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
How come you never see white guitar based melodic poo anymore
― DJ Mencap, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 10:17 (5 years ago) Permalink
if it was entertaining then it would be entertaining. but i somehow doubt it would be.
― stevie, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 10:57 (5 years ago) Permalink
oh come on, the work of geir hongro appearing in the national press would be entertainment enough surely.
― acrobat, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 11:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
Remembering the horrible reign of the v similar Tom Cox as Guardian pop critic I can tell thee no.
― Raw Patrick, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 11:33 (5 years ago) Permalink
Geir Hongro's Tribes Of Pop
― DJ Mencap, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 11:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
If I wrote a really entertaining and very biased review ...
it might not be "great" or "useful", but if it was well-written and entertaining and made me laugh, or even get wildly angry, then yeah, job well done.
― grimly fiendish, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 14:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
Geir Hongro, if all that matters is tune, why don't bands just play the lead melody one note at a time on a keyboard with no arrangement or production at all? Surely these indie bands you big up and love so much have a sound that adds to their appeal? For you anyway...
― max r, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 17:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
Why would anyone listen to any of those Britpop acts when you could listen to any of the superior acts from the 60s and 70s that they ripped off? Pulp were pretty good, though.
― max r, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 20:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
The tune isn't all that matters, it is just what matters the most. Plus the belonging chords matter just as much, which means it needs at least a backing instrument that is able to play chords.
Why would anyone listen to any of those Britpop acts when you could listen to any of the superior acts from the 60s and 70s that they ripped off?
Because the world needs new songs. Not the same old songs, but new ones. In the same style, but with new melodies. After a while, you get sick of humming the old songs, and you need new songs to hum.
― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 21:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
what happens once robert pollard has written a song with every possible melody? (eta: 2015)
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 21:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
Before anyone has managed to write a song with every possible melody, Sufjan Stevens has released a concept album covered every single American state. And with non-concept albums in-between even.
― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 21:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
"Because the world needs new songs. Not the same old songs, but new ones. In the same style, but with new melodies. After a while, you get sick of humming the old songs, and you need new songs to hum."
But why not new styles as well? What's the difference?
― max r, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 22:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
Nothing wrong with new styles as long as the contain hummable songs. The new styles of the past 20 have been too much about rhythm and repetition though, not enough about melody and harmony.
― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 22:36 (5 years ago) Permalink
Plus entirely new styles are not needed. One should rather mix the styles already existing, creating new conglomerations of already known stylistic elements.
― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 22:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
Eh? Don't you think your criteria for what makes a song enjoyable or worthwhile is bit limited, Mr Grongo?
― max r, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 22:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
It's the only criteria that mattered until 1920 in classical music, and until the late 80s in popular music.
― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 22:54 (5 years ago) Permalink
That's nonsense. Classical composers were always experimenting with different orchestral arrangements, new instruments, etc... And there's been experimentation with production techniques in pop since at least the late 60s.
― max r, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 23:03 (5 years ago) Permalink
I was going to send this thread around to some friends b/c of the interesting review but then the thread got derailed. still derailed i see.
― Billy Pilgrim, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 00:45 (5 years ago) Permalink
But melodies were always an important part of 60s pop and 19 century classical music, even if there were other elements too the melody was always there at the bottom.
― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 09:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
geir do you like harry warren?
― Pashmina, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 10:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
i regret reviving this thread.
fucking geir.
-- That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, September 24, 2007 2:48 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Link
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 10:46 (5 years ago) Permalink
Votes for imagebombing?
― Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 10:47 (5 years ago) Permalink
there should be a 'killfile last 100 posts' function
― Just got offed, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 10:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 10:51 (5 years ago) Permalink
ilm has been silent for 17 minutes, as the LBZC plots its next move
― Just got offed, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 11:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
― roffle roffle, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 11:14 (5 years ago) Permalink
I couldn't find a .jpg of three pots and one kettle, sorry.
― roffle roffle, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 11:15 (5 years ago) Permalink
― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 11:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
TS mr idée fixe vs the holy trinity of lazy, adolescent snark.
(ha, xposts)
― Pashmina, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 11:20 (5 years ago) Permalink
That looks like a Yello video that never was.
― NickB, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 11:24 (5 years ago) Permalink
Personally I think their comeback album is indeed better than any of their two 90s albums. They have stripped away all of the "indie" elements and gone fully fledged hippie-pop with quite a hint of 70s softrock/pomp pop. Which fits them greatly.
― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 01:55 (5 years ago) Permalink
I like "Tattva."
― Mr. Snrub, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 02:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqncFetwku0
Yeah, they sucked
― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 18 March 2008 23:18 (5 years ago) Permalink
I'm happy to say that KulaShaker never graced my stereo - I thought they were bollocks.
this DG guy OTM
― DG, Tuesday, 18 March 2008 23:25 (5 years ago) Permalink
Mr Snrub OTM 2 posts ago
― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 18 March 2008 23:30 (5 years ago) Permalink