The Death of Cinema pt. 94

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Knocked Up's postrelease prestige print ads featured a scintillating line about how marriage differs from Everybody Loves Raymond as an example of its Wilder-caliber screenwriting. I'll be pleasantly surprised if I like it, but I know the way to bet.

I've seen one episode of The Sopranos, let's talk about that now.

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

"Wilder-caliber screenwriting" often didn't even meet Wilder's standards.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:23 (7 years ago) Permalink

i think we should just keep talking ourselves in circles forever.

Whatever keeps us from actually watching movies, right?

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

That "Everybody Loves Raymond" line was v. lame

Tom D., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

I bet it'll be the clip for its Best Original Screenplay nom

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

Irony: I am going to see Knocked Up tonight for $2 at the awesome cheap theater near where I live. Well, no, I guess that's not really ironic at all.

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

ok i am not going to have this argument again, if your really think you don't actually have to watch movies to pass judgment on them, i dont think we have much to talk about

s1ocki, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

To be fair, he wasn't passing judgement on Knocked Up but an archetype that overlaps with a perceived fanbase for that film.

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:35 (7 years ago) Permalink

YES

food critics, Christ

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

Morbs contructs these phony binarities: if you love Apatow films, you're a meathead who will ignore a Tsai Ming-Liang release.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

Can't one hate both?

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

I mean, wtf, a Renoir or pre-American Lang film wasn't getting the George Cukor Radio City treatment.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:39 (7 years ago) Permalink

no, I actually don't believe that particular phony binary

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:40 (7 years ago) Permalink

food critics, Christ

-- Dr Morbius, Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:37 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

haha

s1ocki, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:41 (7 years ago) Permalink

To be fair, he wasn't passing judgement on Knocked Up but an archetype that overlaps with a perceived fanbase for that film.

-- Eric H., Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:35 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

and ya whatev, it's all ill-informed sophistry to this food critic.

s1ocki, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:41 (7 years ago) Permalink

xp

(That 'binary' is, of course, true 99% of the time; check the b.o. tallies)

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

actually lang was pretty well distributed in the '20s. renoir, no; but shit, hollywood brought over just about all the major talents, front and behind camera, from germany in the early '20s.

lang was not an art-house director: he was making big-budget films in a studio as big as any in california.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

The b.o. discrepancy can be attributed to the fact that people who would be into TML movies are all paying off their grad student loans.

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

oh, and buying every new Criterion DVD sight unseen.

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

i'm not going to say Knocked Up (or numerous other youth-orientated Hollywood flicks) is a bad film (because i haven't seen it) but i stand by my 'this looks like i will hate it' thing and still find it interesting to look at why that is (not here tho). morbs probably doing a different thing ala momus vs tarantino.

blueski, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

and i def wouldn't bother making judgement about apatow fanbase - esp. not when his films get the love they do on ILE.

blueski, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

oh, and buying every new Criterion DVD sight unseen.

like the people on their forum? (actually if you think ILE/F threads are bad...)

impudent harlot, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

i don't think TML is very good. doesn't much to speak to my experience, doesn't much create forms that interest me.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

like the people on their forum?

Like all cinephiles in flyover country.

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:49 (7 years ago) Permalink

is Knocked Up YOUTH-oriented? Appears aimed squarely at 21-34 to me. But that is the New Adolescence, I guess.

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:50 (7 years ago) Permalink

hah i was gonna say "speaking to my experience" = why i rate apatow highly (well, not the only reason)

impudent harlot, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:50 (7 years ago) Permalink

its all KNOCKED UP's fucking fault.

pisces, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

But that is the New Adolescence, I guess.

kinda but i concede that Apatow, even with Superbad, has cracked it with getting people 16, 26 AND 36 roffling in the aisles

blueski, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

is Knocked Up YOUTH-oriented?

It's het-oriented, and those hets who secretly fantasize about kissing Paul Rudd.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

My only peeve about Knocked Up sight unseen is how it was being sold as some sort of sleeper when it had as big a promotional push as any other summer blockbuster of the Michael Bay ilk.

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

so you had a problem with the marketing of the marketing.

s1ocki, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:57 (7 years ago) Permalink

I don't believe I'm the one that's been bitching about Knocked Up on this thread.

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:58 (7 years ago) Permalink

look, if something valuable and good about past cultural arrangements (in this case, smart/euro/avant/classy movies being more widely loved or just more widely available -- if this was even true, but let's just say, for argument, it was) is dying, we just have to grit our teeth and let it die, frankly. why? cos there's no solution to the "problem" that's feasible let alone right.

what do you do, other than submit all production to some kind of morbs-approved board of culture? how does one prevent apatow films from getting to their audience? or insist that same audience go to a bergman retro instead?

gff, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:59 (7 years ago) Permalink

hah i was gonna say "speaking to my experience" = why i rate apatow highly (well, not the only reason)

-- impudent harlot, Thursday, September 13, 2007 4:50 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

yeah me too! i was saying that taiwanese guy wasn't my stuff.

damn me for being het, i guess.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 13 September 2007 16:01 (7 years ago) Permalink

look, I wouldn't at all be surprised if KU turns out to be superior to the whole of 'mumblecore.'

The solution, as always, involvbes voting with your wallet. And The People are doing so with the same perspicacity they have in the 2000 and 2004 elections.

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 16:02 (7 years ago) Permalink

that is specious bullshit

gff, Thursday, 13 September 2007 16:06 (7 years ago) Permalink

perhaps! It's even worse in the other popular arts. Britney gave a trainwreck performance?? How could they tell?

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 16:08 (7 years ago) Permalink

(cuz it sounds way more interesting than her stellar past)

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 16:08 (7 years ago) Permalink

look there's more to the huge industrial/cultural changes afoot than demonstrating, again, typical little-manhattan handwringing about the great unwashed. if you want to make some connection between Apatow and GWB, go ahead, but it's gotta be something more substantial than "ppl other than me, dr morbius, famed internet complainer, are retards"

gff, Thursday, 13 September 2007 16:10 (7 years ago) Permalink

Britney gave a trainwreck performance?? How could they tell?

oh COME ON

blueski, Thursday, 13 September 2007 16:11 (7 years ago) Permalink

forget Apatow.

"we" like movies and presidents that go BOOM. The End.

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 16:12 (7 years ago) Permalink

socialism

acrobat, Thursday, 13 September 2007 16:16 (7 years ago) Permalink

Great thread.

Dom Passantino, Thursday, 13 September 2007 16:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

Irony: I am going to see Knocked Up tonight for $2 at the awesome cheap theater near where I live.

Possible irony: I am finally going to see the Mexican gay art film (and Armond White fave) Broken Sky tonight, which I rented from Kim's Video. And if you fellas wanna see some REAL snobs, meet the staff there.

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 16:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

enticing

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 13 September 2007 16:25 (7 years ago) Permalink

one half of Coldcut made the remark in an interview once that he was totally okay with the whole Ninjatune thing having a very limited audience, because "most people don't care about music!" and pointed out some woman walking by with a baby carriage as an example "they've got lots of other stuff on their mind." etc.

People are always going to make and consume twatty bullshit, that doesn't mean the slightly more sophisticated and exploratory entertainments have to die. If anything the modern marketplace has and will continue to provide the Long Tail stuff with more lucrative rewards and a more widespread audience than we've ever experienced in our lifetime.

El Tomboto, Thursday, 13 September 2007 16:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

That's true. It makes me happy to think that "Mon Oncle" is still making money!

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 13 September 2007 16:33 (7 years ago) Permalink

If the work of any of these directors is analagous to Ninja Tune I will happily let the whole fucking shebang die.

Matt DC, Thursday, 13 September 2007 16:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

(I have no opinion on the subject in question, just wanted to get that shot in)

Matt DC, Thursday, 13 September 2007 16:45 (7 years ago) Permalink


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