Lester Bangs - Classic or Carburetor Dung?

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Edward III, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 02:36 (seventeen years ago) link

I hate myself. Same damn thing last year, this year, on and on till I’m an old fart if I live that long. Shit. Think I’ll rape my wank-fantasy cunt dog-style tonight.

Classic.

ian, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 02:40 (seventeen years ago) link

I find his style unbearable.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 02:41 (seventeen years ago) link

The whole affected talky thing - it's like reading Thomas Friedman

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 02:53 (seventeen years ago) link

you read a message board all day and complain of "the whole affected talky thing"?? mindboggling.

ian, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 02:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, zing, I know. But it works fine for a message board, and not as well for essays.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 03:28 (seventeen years ago) link

motherfucker didn't have no message board, you schmuck.

chaki, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:25 (seventeen years ago) link

ian and myonga OTM -- reading bangs reviews of lou reed's TRANSFORMER and RAW POWER by teh stooges in stereo review when I was 15 turned me on to THE PATH and I'll always revere him for that. when carburetor dung was published in the mid 80s I was working at r0llin $toned where I combed the archives and read everything lester wrote for the rag (no wonder I got fired)anyway I was shocked because contrary to the conventional wisdom bangs wrote some of his best stuff there, breathtaking essays like "the carpenters and the creeps" and a stinging indictment of the counterculture in the wake of janis/jimi's deaths along w/runofthemill LP reviews that would just OPEN UP into streams of postbeatnick sartori and wizdom at the drop of a roachclip.

anyway I think his best work remains unanthologized. greil marcus didn't do lester any favors by printing the failed fiction, breakdown-period rants and lonely-guy musings in the second half of that book, put it that way. and I've always thought that anti-racism article was the precise moment when les "jumped the shark" turning into another self-righteous/hypocrite baby-boomer lecturing the young folks.

the second lb anthology was a huge disappointment, which I don't blame on editor john morthland (who's an lowkey genius writer/critic himself)but on the transitory nature of journalism , y'know how it's tied to the time it was written in. so reading about wet willie makes more sense in 1974 than it does now DUH. still the shocking thing about this book is how dated it feels. take the stuff on miles davis' electric funk -- arguably the most prescient influential and rich music of the 70s and gotdamn if lester didn't get it either he just blabs on and on speculating about miles' emotional state or whatever. bummer.

bottom line: I'm forever in his debt but I think lester bangs' memory/legend has been held up for so long that he's become a negative or even destructive influence, like w/pauline kael in film criticism his ghostly & intimidating presence hovers over the next generation of writers effectively scaring them off of finding their own voices and forging a fresh approach. at the end of the day thurston moore was right you've got to KILL YR IDOLS and find out the new goal.

m coleman, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 10:35 (seventeen years ago) link

bangs on sabbath. so damn perceptive to peg them as moralists.

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I've always thought that anti-racism article was the precise moment when les "jumped the shark" turning into another self-righteous/hypocrite baby-boomer lecturing the young folks.

but that's part of the history isn't it? laughner dies, bangs rejects r. hell's "never grow up" philosophy. it's not like he stumbled blindly into obsolescence, he was making some decisions about the kind of person he wanted to be. he recognized he wasn't gonna stay 21 forever and struggled with it and wrote about it, directly, openly. and I'd rather get lectured by bangs, who was decent enough to be forthcoming about his own foibles, then just about any other rock crit. (btw you're 100% otm about everything else)

it would be great to see the complete works of bangs published.

Edward III, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 14:28 (seventeen years ago) link

i dont get the complaints about his influence on writers. i'd like to see some examples cited. at least people were biting someone whose style is readable.

m coleman OTM as usual though i've never read any super old rolling stones. i didn't read him until i was 18, HOLY SHIT did i think he was awesome and an equal of Hunter S. Thompson who i had read when i was 15.

artdamages, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 14:33 (seventeen years ago) link

i dunno, i kind of liked that Lester completely missed the boat on Miles' electric stuff (xpost) -- shows just how way the fuck ahead of its time it was -- not even Lester "I Love Metal Machine Music" Bangs could see it for what it was. He really struggles with it and you can see that he's just on the verge of accepting and loving it (wouldn't be surprised if this happened later on, but he just didn't write about it).

yeah, a complete works would be cool (i'd buy it!) -- I guess I figured that the best stuff was in the two anthologies...but i guess not? What are some of the good unanthologized pieces?

tylerw, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 22:48 (seventeen years ago) link

He really struggles with it and you can see that he's just on the verge of accepting and loving it (wouldn't be surprised if this happened later on, but he just didn't write about it).

I'm inclined to agree with this. That series of befuddled essays turned me on to electric Miles in the first place ("wtf are these crazy records that are getting to Lester so much?"), and I'd say that if you can get past his value judgements of the fusion stuff, his ideas about the albums still hold up. Miles imagining a less-human future, etc, that shit comes off as kinda prescient to me.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 23:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I'll also back MC on the Miles stuff; there's some good reading in the Morthland anthology, but those pieces really disappointed me. I do like the long reggae excursion in which he decides Marley is a hippie and prefers Lee Perry because he's a fellow boozehound.

If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Thursday, 19 April 2007 00:01 (seventeen years ago) link

HOOS, that stuff about a less-human future is one of LB's major tropes; I definitely see what he's getting at, but as someone living in that future with plenty of truly human friends, I think he leans a little too hard on it. I wonder sometimes how much clinical depression figures into that stuff.

If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Thursday, 19 April 2007 00:03 (seventeen years ago) link

I do wish Lester had lived to write about Flipper. They were working his side of the street in more ways than one.

If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Thursday, 19 April 2007 00:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, good non-anthologized pieces include "Free Jazz Punk Rock" from a 1980 Musician, and a long interview with Brian Eno in the same magazine.

If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Thursday, 19 April 2007 00:06 (seventeen years ago) link

Cranky manfulness = authentic

Hurting 2, Thursday, 19 April 2007 00:11 (seventeen years ago) link

?

Tim Ellison, Thursday, 19 April 2007 00:19 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, good non-anthologized pieces include "Free Jazz Punk Rock" from a 1980 Musician, and a long interview with Brian Eno in the same magazine.

Supposedly he was planning on writing something along the lines of A.B. Spellman's Four Lives In The Bebop Business, with Eno as one of the...um...four lives.

Sara Sara Sara, Thursday, 19 April 2007 02:08 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah I would've loved that, I think.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 19 April 2007 02:59 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah those Musicianpieces were great. the classic "stone" stuff by Lester Bangs that I can excavate from the canyons of my mind:

"The Carpenters And The Creeps" (1971) a live review of the Carps that incorporates autobiography and actual music criticism, becoming a tour-de-force summary of then-current pop scene. Tightly written, too.

review of some Jack Kerouac paperback reissues around the time of his death, a hommage to beat at the height of hippiedom (1969)

the Janis/Jimi riff (late 1970) I think may have occurred during a piece abt something else, but it was definitely the only moment in the history of the publication where the virutes/values of the counterculture were questioned.

and his record reviews 1969-71 were the main event, not only for the writing but musical insight, at the point Lester was like his disciple Xhuxk Eddy in this respect: he listened to everything w/fresh ears including a lot of stuff that other critics didn't take seriously.

that's another reason post-1976 Lester bums me out, he's so jaded.

I've got xeroxes of this stuff but they're BURIED in storage bin :-(

but hey, I forgot that my all time favorite Bangs piece is included in Mainlines:"Bob Dylan's Dalliance With Mafia Chic."

m coleman, Thursday, 19 April 2007 10:57 (seventeen years ago) link

ha ha, yeah the "Mafia Chic" story is amusing because Lester spent about 100 times longer thinking about "Joey" than Dylan did.

I think that the Eno piece is on Perfect Sound Forever...

Who were the other "lives" Bangs was planning on covering in his proposed "Four Lives" book. Quine, maybe?

tylerw, Thursday, 19 April 2007 14:25 (seventeen years ago) link

I think Marianne Faithfull was one of them. There was a list in the foreword to PR&CD, which stated that three of the four lives were set and the fourth was up in the air.

C. Grisso/McCain, Thursday, 19 April 2007 14:27 (seventeen years ago) link

three years pass...

From "Lester Bangs - Last Interview" by a then-17-year old Jim DeRogatis:

Do you think there's a danger of rock 'n' roll becoming extinct?
Yeah, sure. Definitely.

What would there be to take its place?
Video games.

NYCNative, Tuesday, 8 March 2011 10:42 (thirteen years ago) link

now if only JDR had taken this^ to heart...

gravity tractor VS asteroid B612 (m coleman), Tuesday, 8 March 2011 11:33 (thirteen years ago) link

seriously,"video games = death of rock" was a popular music-biz meme ca.1982

gravity tractor VS asteroid B612 (m coleman), Tuesday, 8 March 2011 11:35 (thirteen years ago) link

Now that the music-playing game genre has been declared dead, I wonder how many adherents moved on to actual guitar playing.

bendy, Tuesday, 8 March 2011 12:03 (thirteen years ago) link

Have to say I never cared for either his writing style or, all too often, his musical tastes.

Lee626, Tuesday, 8 March 2011 12:22 (thirteen years ago) link

one year passes...

A couple of posts on Facebook alerted me to the fact that it's the 30th anniversary of his death. I'm guessing there are one or two older posters here who can say they met him. I interviewed Chuck and Marcus in '86; I'd like to think that if I'd started a little later or he'd lived a little longer, I would have tried to interview Bangs (and succeeded, I imagine--he seemed extremely accessible). I didn't start reading Creem till '80 or thereabouts, so I'd read very little by him before the first book came out--really only some Rolling Stone reviews in an early-'70s collection, and some RS reviews later in the decade, when Paul Nelson was publishing him regularly. I tried to write like him early on, and of course it was egregiously wrong. Blaming him for the misdeeds of people like me makes no sense.

clemenza, Monday, 30 April 2012 22:43 (eleven years ago) link

three months pass...

Haven't read it yet, but a New Yorker contributor on Bangs's influence on her:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/books/2012/08/how-lester-bangs-taught-me-to-read.html

clemenza, Thursday, 23 August 2012 13:51 (eleven years ago) link

that is a really, really fantastic article. i don't think i've ever actually seen anyone else -- apart from marcus in his intro to the bangs collection -- actually pin down what i love(d) about bangs's writing so much (haven't read him in a while): even at his silliest, he was a genuinely thoughtful, reflective writer. likening him to DFW is really inspired: i don't know why i didn't think of that before.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Saturday, 25 August 2012 05:08 (eleven years ago) link

one year passes...

I didn't think this was great, but I am glad it got made:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyDBcmNDyOc

Early on, I found the cutting of the interviews way too fast; I had doubts about the voice-over excerpts all the way through. (I don't know if it was just the way they were read, or whether it wasn't going to work regardless.) Bangs's friends back home are a very likeable group.

clemenza, Thursday, 26 December 2013 04:02 (ten years ago) link

Thought young Lester looked like Jake Gyllenhaal.

http://sandiegotroubadour.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Lester-Bangs-YEARBOOK.jpg

clemenza, Thursday, 26 December 2013 05:51 (ten years ago) link

one year passes...

Wonder if Mark Shipper wrote that ballot -- he did the "From the Cloud of Lester Bangs" notes in PR&CD.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 1 January 2015 17:23 (nine years ago) link

wish Robert Quine's I Heard Her Call My Name Symphony was a real thing

Rallsballs@onelist.com (stevie), Thursday, 1 January 2015 18:24 (nine years ago) link

eight years pass...

From the Creem mailing list:

LESTER BANGS AT 75

Lester Bangs is more than a genius, a savant, a beautiful soul, and the north CREEM star in the nighttime CREEM sky: he is also the rock critic that people, gun to their head, can name. In tribute to both his unfettered brilliance, and his name recognition, CREEM is celebrating Bangs in the way that he would appreciate most: hyperbolic praise, borderline slanderous revisionism, and by attempting to sell enough t-shirts riffing on our dead friend to fund a statue of Lou Reed made entirely out of ketamine.

Do we come to praise Lester Bangs? Bury Lester Bangs? Or did we just run out of money for the year and needed to bring in our December issue for under ten grand, and some Lester Bangs hoo-ha seemed the smartest way to do it? (The dead don’t do much, but they do work cheap.) And if it’s the latter, how did Lester Bangs know to plan his 75th birthday at the same time to save our asses yet again?????

Find out when The Lester Bangs Issue starts shipping December 1.

Until then, subscribers can log in to read all of Bangs’ original CREEM writing in our archive. Study up.

an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 18 October 2023 00:30 (six months ago) link

he is also the rock critic that people, gun to their head, can name

highly suspect there's only ppl who can name several music critics and ppl who can name none, not ones who can only name Lester Bangs

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 18 October 2023 09:44 (six months ago) link

Bangs is the only one who appeared as a named character in a hugely successful movie, though

Yngwie Azalea (stevie), Wednesday, 18 October 2023 10:25 (six months ago) link

I'm having trouble thinking of a rock critic who has appeared as a named character in even a low-budget indie straight-to-vhs bomb.

henry s, Wednesday, 18 October 2023 13:04 (six months ago) link

Leonid Brezhnev, Lenny Bruce and Lester Bangs
Birthday party, cheesecake, jellybean, boom

an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 18 October 2023 13:13 (six months ago) link

Bangs is the only one who appeared as a named character in a hugely successful movie, though

I could be annoying and say those ppl could then probably also cite Cameron Crowe but point taken.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 18 October 2023 13:33 (six months ago) link

and Ben Fong-Torres (is he a critic? I dunno). I didn't recall that Bangs showed up in that movie, too

Chavez video on MTV, July 1995 (morrisp), Wednesday, 18 October 2023 13:42 (six months ago) link

Yes but did Lester Bangs ever knock on stranger's door and ask to inspect their underwear do commercials for washing powder like Danny Baker did?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF4FVzLcWD4

The First Time Ever I Saw Gervais (Tom D.), Wednesday, 18 October 2023 13:42 (six months ago) link

I could be annoying and say those ppl could then probably also cite Cameron Crowe but point taken.

This is true, but the character in Almost Famous isn't actually Cameron Crowe, even if he is clearly an analogue for the writer/director of the movie. Forgot about Ben Fong-Torres and now reminded of his reference to his "old lady" in that movie.

Yngwie Azalea (stevie), Wednesday, 18 October 2023 13:58 (six months ago) link

"Best" appearance by an erstwhile rock critic playing a fictional role must go to Jann Wenner's performance as Mark Roth in Perfect.

Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 18 October 2023 14:05 (six months ago) link

It's news to me that Creem is even around

jmm, Wednesday, 18 October 2023 14:34 (six months ago) link

It was relaunched last year by the son of the original guy, and some other folks.

Chavez video on MTV, July 1995 (morrisp), Wednesday, 18 October 2023 14:36 (six months ago) link

It's also a pricey, subscriber-only boutique magazine now.

an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 18 October 2023 14:37 (six months ago) link

They advertise on Instagram a lot

Chavez video on MTV, July 1995 (morrisp), Wednesday, 18 October 2023 14:44 (six months ago) link


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