2008 Primaries Thread

THATS WHAT IM SAYING

tracer, if you think that kicking republicans out of office and shoring up a massive democratic majority in the legislature is going to lead to less corruption over time, then you are most likely retarded.

the beltway consensus is that huckabee and obama are up because they represent a break from "the partisan politics of the past"

bullsh*t - they are up because they talk good and seem like winners; people just want things to get better than they are, for their looming insecurities about their finances, the environment, and the war to be stanched (immigration panic is a stand-in for these insecurities) and for an adult to be in charge - these challenges will require partisanship in order to get anything done over the republicans who will back and fill as long as it takes

haha jhøshea yeah ok

what we should talk abt is how obv conflicted bill is at the prospect of hil becoming president of the united states of america

i mean he really hates her right

elmo i actually don't really give a shit about "corruption" - i think it's actually the only way half the sh*t in the US gets done

Tracer Hand's War

as long as there are sterling ethical Dems like John Murtha around...!

Romney wins Wyoming GOP Caucus

Even Wyoming media shrugged. I had to struggle to find this on the Wyoming news site.

Bill Bradley got far less shafted by the media than Romney is now. Not shedding any tears here. "Interesting"

haha dig my selective censorship

jhøshea bill's autobiography contains another glowing encomium to hillary on like every other page - i guess you could say it's all calculated but it seems pretty real

actually democrats are less corrupt than republicans - which isnt saying much

sure part of that has to w/being the ruing party - but theres also just more tolerance for that sort of thing in their culture

looking like a winner is a big part of winning.

id say bill feels incredibly indebted to hillary - and intellectually he probably believes in her - but they have been married for 30 years so they do probably totally despise each other

but its his behavior more than any sort of reasoning that lead me to believe that hes not totally on board here - hes just seemed weirdly emotional and distracted the whole campaign

hey guys i feel better now

i think if elections were decided on the basis of logic and reason, we would have had Presidents Gore and/or Kerry. instead, we got Bush because Gore seemed like a robot, but then almost pulled it out when he got all fired up at the end. and we kept him because Kerry and Edwards presented a legal case clearly outlining the failures of the admin and people still went for the guy who admitted he kinda fucked up a little bit but was all aw-shucks about it. we won last time because people got shocked by katrina and finally got angry about the news, and we played to that against less attractive people.

if a partisan message decided elections better than one based upon personal characteristics, we would not hear regular interviews with undecided voters who fail to make any serious ideological distinctions between candidates, but want to vote for the person who seems the least "like a politician." if the message that one side is inherently better than the other got through to these people, it would have done so already. the best way to make it clear is by example - getting a transformational figure in office who can establish a solid majority that then produces solid results over time.

they have been married for 30 years so they do probably totally despise each other

i imagine just the reverse

"The people of Wyoming took the first step towards bringing true conservative change to Washington," Romney said in a statement. "I am honored to have won many of the first delegates awarded this primary season. As the Republican nominee, I promise to fight to seat all ofthe Wyoming's delegates at the national convention."

(I know I'm being an ass but lollers)

people still went for the guy who admitted he kinda fucked up a little bit but was all aw-shucks about it.

and who promised to save them from scary married gayz. "it's cuz people want a reglar guy" can easily mean "a reglar guy who panders to my bigotries." (obviously mexican terrorists will be the married gayz of this election. wonder if any gop operatives are trying to get immigrant-bashing initiatives on the state ballots, to really get out the nativist vote.)

the people who decided the election were not the people scared of married gayz

f the message that one side is inherently better than the other got through to these people, it would have done so already

Because it isn't true?

yes, we know about your strange ideas

tracer, if you think that kicking republicans out of office and shoring up a massive democratic majority in the legislature is going to lead to less corruption over time, then you are most likely retarded.

Bush and Gore, what's the difference?

^so fucking lame^ Keep those expecs at rock bottom.

sorry, but isn't it pretty elementary that majorities will seek to entrench their own advantage through corrupt means?

there's an old saw about power and corruption, but i won't insult your intelligence pretending i need to repeat it.

Yeah, keep those expecs of leaders who won't illegally invade foreign countries at the cost of thousands of lives and billions of dollars at rock bottom.

And honestly, as cynical as I can occassionally get about partisan politics, the issues of government transparency and reform are the strongest reasons why I cast my support for Obama.

Hillary now trying on Edwards' message: "This is very personal for me."

sorry, but isn't it pretty elementary that majorities will seek to entrench their own advantage through corrupt means?

duh. we also don't live in Zimbabwe. one side beats the other on policy every time.

^^lolz

joe trippi (GRAIN OF SALT) says hillary is broke http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/edwards_adviser_trippi_hillary_is_broke.php

what kind of reformer bona fides does Obama have?

or are you just going by "sit down with the insurance companies to fix healthcare"?

Yeah, keep those expecs of leaders who won't illegally invade foreign countries at the cost of thousands of lives and billions of dollars at rock bottom.

Yeah, Democrats and Republicans -- they'll all torture detainees, right? And repeal the Kyoto Treaty? Might as well go with Nader.

Clinton didn't sign the Kyoto treaty. Dems rolled over on torture (repeatedly)

what kind of reformer bona fides does Obama have?

-- Dr Morbius, Monday, January 7, 2008 1:06 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

or are you just going by "sit down with the insurance companies to fix healthcare"?

-- Dr Morbius, Monday, January 7, 2008 1:07 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

hey jerkass what are your solutions, then

He worked on ethics (lol) and death penalty reform in IL.

xp: I'm not running (this time), asswipe. Edwards's solutions will do.

i like how morbs is so deeply skeptical of everything pols say unless what they say is skeptical at which point he just laps that shit up without question

MORBS IN 2012!

fixing healthcare vs childish gimmicks

this race is very personal for dr. morbius

skeptical is the thinking person's default setting for life

you appear to have missed my point

whew!

ive been waiting for someone to bring a 9/11 truther mentality to economic issues

what kind of reformer bona fides does Obama have?

I know it's some bullshit to paste from a wiki but here ya go

As a state legislator, Obama worked with both Democrats and Republicans in drafting successful legislation on ethics and health care reform. He sponsored a law enhancing tax credits for low-income workers, negotiated welfare reform, and promoted increased subsidies for child care. Obama also led the passage of legislation mandating videotaping of homicide interrogations, and a law to monitor racial profiling by requiring police to record the race of drivers they stopped. During his 2004 general election campaign for U.S. Senate, Obama won the endorsement of the Illinois Fraternal Order of Police, whose president credited him with having been "immensely helpful in working with police organizations" on death penalty reform.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Clinton_fights_tears_Its_not_easy.html

That's all dandy, dave, but can he manage it at the Fed level, or will he continue along the lines of his Senate vote to make class-action lawsuits harder?

dr morbius : politics :: geir : music

i know it's iffy to micro-parse the stuff people say live, but "I have so many opportunities for this country" is not a phrase i'd like to hear