Velvet Underground Trainspotting Question

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what the hell is that? a 304-page hardback book, yeah, but what about the single with it?

hate it when Amazon has no info about the product.

and hey that Seattle 69 show is on the Nuns Are On The Seawall blog, it's listed as Retinal Circus. first new show (to me) to surface since the Gymnasium.

sleeve, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

!!! Had no idea ... Thanks! Is it good?

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

more from that Velvet Forum:
-the full Gymnasium tape
-the cale/sterling/reed rehearsals from cale loft 1966
-uncut recent Factory 66 tape

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

here's a list of uncirculated VU stuff that seems to actually exist.

i'm still hoping that footage of them on Upbeat! shows up somewhere. Lots of clips from that show are in circulation, but considering they made a handful of appearances i'm surprised nothing's around. About one of the shows: "The Velvets performed live on the Upbeat TV show in June 1968 (not June 1967). Moreover, contrary to Sterling Morrison's recollection, they performed a blistering, buzzsaw version of Run Run Run. Their rendition of Run Run Run went beyond their alloted time: thus, Upbeat cut away to a commercial while the Velvets were engaged in feedback frenzy with Lou's back to the camera."

city worker, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:32 (5 years ago) Permalink

that would be awesome. There was some comment (I think from Moe Tucker) that she couldn't believe, with all the cameras the Warhol crew had going all the time, no one just filmed a straight ahead version of one of the EPI shows.

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

Is it good?

here's wl/wh:

it's a soundboard!!! the only one I know of besides those Matrix tapes. as a result the vox are too loud and the guitars a bit subdued, but the overall recording is much clearer. I still think Problems In Urban Living (Cleveland Oct. 68) is my favorite live boot, love the guitar sound on that.

sleeve, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

that's a flac btw

sleeve, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:48 (5 years ago) Permalink

Already downloading from The Nuns site ... So weird that this stuff just keeps showing up. One thing I'm super interested in (that hasn't seen the light of day afaik) is a studio version of "Beginning to See the Light" with Cale.

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:50 (5 years ago) Permalink


The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:51 (5 years ago) Permalink

those Velvets Forum trainspotters mean business man.

sleeve, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:52 (5 years ago) Permalink

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

But yeah, the "Beginning" with Cale is mentioned in the Unterberger book - recorded at the "Mr. Rain" session apparently? With "fuzz bass"? There was talk of it appearing on a projected WL/WH "deluxe edition, I think. Which never came out obv.

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

LOL, yeah, obv.

The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Thursday, 15 October 2009 16:01 (5 years ago) Permalink

But ... maybe now that this singles set has come out, there's a chance of more VU material coming out officially? I think I read that Lou wasn't into having any more live stuff come out.

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 16:03 (5 years ago) Permalink

Hmmm, so I'm listening to this "Retinal Circus" VU show -- and I'm pretty sure some of these takes are the same as appear on Live 1969. Haven't a/b'd them or anything. It's an uncut tape of the show, though, which hasn't circulate as far as I know ... I think that those songs were thought to be from the Matrix, wonder what the deal is! MYSTERY. Sounds great, anyway.

tylerw, Friday, 16 October 2009 21:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

yeh, the wh/wh posted above is the same as the version on the live 69 album

zappi, Friday, 16 October 2009 21:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

er wl/wh

zappi, Friday, 16 October 2009 21:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, same w/ "heroin", "what goes on", "new age" so far. it's funny to hear these songs w/ audience applause -- on 1969 they cut off almost immediately, sort of giving the impression that the VU was playing to barely anyone. But here they've got a totally enthusiastic crowd. And why not, considering the godlike awesomeness of this "What Goes On."

tylerw, Friday, 16 October 2009 21:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

so I'm fairly certain that these are ALL tracks from Live 1969, albeit in unedited form ... Maybe "Some Kinda Love" is different? Not sure.

tylerw, Friday, 16 October 2009 22:04 (5 years ago) Permalink

interesting... now that u mention it the track times look very similar.

sleeve, Friday, 16 October 2009 23:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

going to John Cale talk at MoMA monday!

dan selzer, Friday, 16 October 2009 23:33 (5 years ago) Permalink

What? Nobody told me about it.

so hongro so aggro (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 17 October 2009 00:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

Oh, I see.

so hongro so aggro (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 17 October 2009 00:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

OK, I'm there.

so hongro so aggro (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 17 October 2009 00:49 (5 years ago) Permalink

John Cale talk is being postponed. Very sad.

dan selzer, Sunday, 18 October 2009 17:09 (5 years ago) Permalink

What was he supposed to talk about? Something specific, or just the Art of Being John Cale?

tylerw, Sunday, 18 October 2009 19:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

Sweet Jesus "Venus in Furs" sounds amazing here!

Adam Bruneau, Sunday, 18 October 2009 20:40 (5 years ago) Permalink

check the moma website under "Looking at Music 2". I think it as mostly about some art instillation/film he's got in the Venice Biennual now or something?

dan selzer, Monday, 19 October 2009 00:00 (5 years ago) Permalink

I was hoping he was going to talk in Welsh, about being Welsh.

oater to oxidation (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 19 October 2009 00:39 (5 years ago) Permalink

I think he was going to interview Joe Walsh, about eating Welsh Rarebit.

dan selzer, Monday, 19 October 2009 02:01 (5 years ago) Permalink

Cale and Walsh need to restart their long-dormant collab Walsh Rarebit ... shit was off the hook.

tylerw, Monday, 19 October 2009 02:04 (5 years ago) Permalink

ahem ILX user tylerw please report to the "five jazz album runs" voting thread

sleeve, Monday, 19 October 2009 02:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

Damn, gotta check out that Unterberger book. Boring writer but his subject matter's always interesting.

Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 19 October 2009 05:19 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeha, often when Unterberger inserts an opinion into his Velvets book, I find myself disagreeing with him. But as a reference, and as a history of the band, I think it's unparalleled. Also, tons of great photos/posters/ephemera, stuff I'd never seen before. And I appreciate that he has in fact listened to the bootlegs, which a lot of writers before him don't seem to have done. In general he doesn't seem too down with the experimental side of the group, even though he does give plenty of space to Cale's pre-VU work, as well as Angus MacLise, which is nice.

tylerw, Monday, 19 October 2009 14:48 (5 years ago) Permalink

There's no way I am gonna be able to finish reading it, tbh.

Trip Maker, Monday, 19 October 2009 14:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

OK, so I'm familiar with the differences between the original "closet mix" of the 3rd LP and the Valentin (sp?) mix that was put out in the 80's reissue series. I know that "Some Kinda Love" is a different take altogether on the Valentin one. My trainspotter question is: which mix does the recent 4 Men With Beards reissue have? "Cause I already have an original closet one and am kicking myself for not picking the alternate mix up a few years ago when it was cheap.

sleeve, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 06:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

4M reissue has the Valentin mix.

willem, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 08:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

awesome, thanks.

sleeve, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 08:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

Think I prefer the Valentin mix, tbh. At least, the take of "Some Kinda Love" is superior.

tylerw, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 13:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

preordered Kugelberg has arrived

Snop Snitchin, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 15:10 (5 years ago) Permalink

is it mainly photos/posters and stuff? not sure if I need to shell out the $$$ ... Does it come with a CD or something?

tylerw, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 16:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

I went to Kugelberg's apt once to talk about some post-punk/DIY stuff, and in this one room where he had his record collection, or small portions of it, he had all these cabinets with 12" sized panels, and in each panel was a copy of the first Velvet Underground record. Perhaps different states of peeling, different pressings, different photo states on the back, I don't remember, it was pretty impressive though.

dan selzer, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 17:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

Blimey, how many have I got now? I have the UK original, the Banana one with a 97% intact banana, um.... Oh, an HMV box set version, a deluxe CDversion, oh and how many more...

Mark G, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 18:22 (5 years ago) Permalink

Wow, mono White Light/White Heat from that Nuns Seawall blog is making me really happy. Of everything I've heard of theirs (Matrix excepted) that's the thing that most needs a legit release (and I kind of wonder why it hasn't happened already).

dlp9001, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 21:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, not sure why they haven't followed up that deluxe VU&Nico from six or seven years ago with deluxe editions of White Light and the third album ... Maybe VU&Nico didn't do that well, since it didn't have any unreleased stuff on it?

tylerw, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 21:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

i thought these would've come out domestically by now, but i scored Japanese versions a couple/few years ago of wl/wh, s/t, 1969 live, and V.U.
the only one that's not a big improvement is '69 live. both white light, and the velvet underground really sound noticeably "better"(IMO) than the mid-1990's releases. and v.u. sounds greatly improved over its original cd release

outdoor_miner, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 22:02 (5 years ago) Permalink

LPs? Yeah, I got the 3rd album, it was the only Valentin version readily available at the time.

Mark G, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 22:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

Oh, and does the V.U. one have that intro on "Foggy Notion" snipped from the CD?

Mark G, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 22:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

Hey, this is the trainspotting thread, innit?

I'll be picking up that singles box tomorrow from the postie!

Will report back tomorrow.

Mark G, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 22:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

Oh, and does the V.U. one have that intro on "Foggy Notion" snipped from the CD?

I believe that this is only on the original 1985 vinyl pressing but I dunno about the new 4 Men one. It's definitely not on the '85 CD.

speaking of trainspotting, check out this alternate version of VU!

Pre-release cassette sent to radio stations contained what was to be the original version of the album, with different mixes and with Ferryboat Bill in place of Ocean (version different from the Another View one).

(from , a great resource)

sleeve, Wednesday, 21 October 2009 00:14 (5 years ago) Permalink

there are 100s of lost VU albums rotting in landfills tucked into old taxicab seat cushions

I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 1 October 2014 23:17 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

You ought to give other people just a little chance, in record collecting anyway.

The "5" Astronomer Royales (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 1 October 2014 23:17 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

well some speculate he deliberately lost them so that they could be found again decades later

we may never know

I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 1 October 2014 23:18 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

but i can't help it, seeing "UNRELEASED VELVET UNDERGROUND ALBUM TO BE RELEASED" headlines today is irritating me.

― tylerw, Wednesday, October 1, 2014 8:13 PM (30 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it is obviously super irritating, both the people writing these articles & everybody reading them has owned this unreleased album since they were sixteen & found out music was cool, the regurgitation is distressing. hitchhike trivia attacks too.

schlump, Wednesday, 1 October 2014 23:45 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Real headline is that the matrix tapes are coming out.

tylerw, Wednesday, 1 October 2014 23:50 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

^OTM. I can't believe they're bundling them with like the 96th reiteration of the reissue.

I don't know whether to line up at midnight for this fucker or to resolutely ignore it for a while until the Complete Matrix Tapes come out on vinyl. Now that they've reached an agreement with Abrams, presumably they'll all come out eventually. Eventually.

hardcore dilettante, Thursday, 2 October 2014 01:56 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Yeah, annoys me that they're holding back that incredible Ocean and Black Angels Death Song

tylerw, Thursday, 2 October 2014 02:14 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

just donated to public radio (which i was meaning to do anyway) with the strategic purpose of winning tickets to this dinner
fingers crossed!

cross over the mushroom circle (La Lechera), Thursday, 2 October 2014 23:47 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

i guess i'd know by now if i won so :(

i gave it my all, shamelessly
that's all a person can do

cross over the mushroom circle (La Lechera), Friday, 3 October 2014 13:56 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Lechera Says....

Mark G, Friday, 3 October 2014 14:03 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

great news! i haven't lost yet! the drawing continues into next week. i think they're trying to sell more tickets and then maybe they will fill seats with winners like me and my date.

cross over the mushroom circle (La Lechera), Saturday, 4 October 2014 13:45 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

dude in the comments on that article seems to know what's up:

This is probably what it is:

May 11, 1965
Pickwick Studios, near Long Island City, New York

8-16 43rd Ave, Queens, NY 11101
Google Maps May 11, 1965 tape

John Cale - Lou Reed - Jerry Vance or Jimmie Sims

Buzz Buzz Buzz (one complete take + a couple of attempts breaking down)
Why Don't You Smile Now
Heroin (take 1)
Heroin (take 2)
Untitled Piano Piece 1
Untitled Piano Piece 1
A full review of this demo tape is available in White Light/White Heat - The Velvet Underground Day by Day by Richie Unterberger. Buzz Buzz Buzz is a Lou Reed original, not a cover of the 1957 hit by The Hollywood Flames. Untitled Piano Pieces are by John Cale alone.

Source: The Velvet Underground Web Page:

If it is this, the second take of Heroin surfaced when Hal Wilner played it at a tribute event to Lou:
(skip to 13:48 to hear the recording). So at least part of it is in the hands of a select few. We need to hear this.

Brio2, Friday, 10 October 2014 13:11 (1 week ago) Permalink

Buzz Buzz Buzz is a Lou Reed original, not a cover of the 1957 hit by The Hollywood Flames.
Was wondering about this, since Jonathan Richman did in fact cover the Hollywood Flames tunes.

Bobby Ono Bland (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 10 October 2014 13:14 (1 week ago) Permalink

wrote a little about it here over the summer:

tylerw, Friday, 10 October 2014 14:08 (1 week ago) Permalink

would be awesome if they opened it and it was actually a bag of 50-year-old heroin.

tylerw, Friday, 10 October 2014 14:13 (1 week ago) Permalink

Boping it's actually a cover of Buzz Buzz A Diddle It by Freddie Cannon.

Brio2, Friday, 10 October 2014 14:43 (1 week ago) Permalink

It's the remains of Waldo Jeffers.

dlp9001, Friday, 10 October 2014 18:21 (1 week ago) Permalink

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