Velvet Underground Trainspotting Question

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what the hell is that? a 304-page hardback book, yeah, but what about the single with it?

hate it when Amazon has no info about the product.

and hey that Seattle 69 show is on the Nuns Are On The Seawall blog, it's listed as Retinal Circus. first new show (to me) to surface since the Gymnasium.

sleeve, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

!!! Had no idea ... Thanks! Is it good?

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

more from that Velvet Forum:
-the full Gymnasium tape
-the cale/sterling/reed rehearsals from cale loft 1966
-uncut recent Factory 66 tape

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

here's a list of uncirculated VU stuff that seems to actually exist.

i'm still hoping that footage of them on Upbeat! shows up somewhere. Lots of clips from that show are in circulation, but considering they made a handful of appearances i'm surprised nothing's around. About one of the shows: "The Velvets performed live on the Upbeat TV show in June 1968 (not June 1967). Moreover, contrary to Sterling Morrison's recollection, they performed a blistering, buzzsaw version of Run Run Run. Their rendition of Run Run Run went beyond their alloted time: thus, Upbeat cut away to a commercial while the Velvets were engaged in feedback frenzy with Lou's back to the camera."

city worker, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:32 (5 years ago) Permalink

that would be awesome. There was some comment (I think from Moe Tucker) that she couldn't believe, with all the cameras the Warhol crew had going all the time, no one just filmed a straight ahead version of one of the EPI shows.

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

Is it good?

here's wl/wh:

it's a soundboard!!! the only one I know of besides those Matrix tapes. as a result the vox are too loud and the guitars a bit subdued, but the overall recording is much clearer. I still think Problems In Urban Living (Cleveland Oct. 68) is my favorite live boot, love the guitar sound on that.

sleeve, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

that's a flac btw

sleeve, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:48 (5 years ago) Permalink

Already downloading from The Nuns site ... So weird that this stuff just keeps showing up. One thing I'm super interested in (that hasn't seen the light of day afaik) is a studio version of "Beginning to See the Light" with Cale.

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:50 (5 years ago) Permalink


The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:51 (5 years ago) Permalink

those Velvets Forum trainspotters mean business man.

sleeve, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:52 (5 years ago) Permalink

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

But yeah, the "Beginning" with Cale is mentioned in the Unterberger book - recorded at the "Mr. Rain" session apparently? With "fuzz bass"? There was talk of it appearing on a projected WL/WH "deluxe edition, I think. Which never came out obv.

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 15:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

LOL, yeah, obv.

The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Thursday, 15 October 2009 16:01 (5 years ago) Permalink

But ... maybe now that this singles set has come out, there's a chance of more VU material coming out officially? I think I read that Lou wasn't into having any more live stuff come out.

tylerw, Thursday, 15 October 2009 16:03 (5 years ago) Permalink

Hmmm, so I'm listening to this "Retinal Circus" VU show -- and I'm pretty sure some of these takes are the same as appear on Live 1969. Haven't a/b'd them or anything. It's an uncut tape of the show, though, which hasn't circulate as far as I know ... I think that those songs were thought to be from the Matrix, wonder what the deal is! MYSTERY. Sounds great, anyway.

tylerw, Friday, 16 October 2009 21:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

yeh, the wh/wh posted above is the same as the version on the live 69 album

zappi, Friday, 16 October 2009 21:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

er wl/wh

zappi, Friday, 16 October 2009 21:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, same w/ "heroin", "what goes on", "new age" so far. it's funny to hear these songs w/ audience applause -- on 1969 they cut off almost immediately, sort of giving the impression that the VU was playing to barely anyone. But here they've got a totally enthusiastic crowd. And why not, considering the godlike awesomeness of this "What Goes On."

tylerw, Friday, 16 October 2009 21:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

so I'm fairly certain that these are ALL tracks from Live 1969, albeit in unedited form ... Maybe "Some Kinda Love" is different? Not sure.

tylerw, Friday, 16 October 2009 22:04 (5 years ago) Permalink

interesting... now that u mention it the track times look very similar.

sleeve, Friday, 16 October 2009 23:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

going to John Cale talk at MoMA monday!

dan selzer, Friday, 16 October 2009 23:33 (5 years ago) Permalink

What? Nobody told me about it.

so hongro so aggro (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 17 October 2009 00:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

Oh, I see.

so hongro so aggro (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 17 October 2009 00:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

OK, I'm there.

so hongro so aggro (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 17 October 2009 00:49 (5 years ago) Permalink

John Cale talk is being postponed. Very sad.

dan selzer, Sunday, 18 October 2009 17:09 (5 years ago) Permalink

What was he supposed to talk about? Something specific, or just the Art of Being John Cale?

tylerw, Sunday, 18 October 2009 19:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

Sweet Jesus "Venus in Furs" sounds amazing here!

Adam Bruneau, Sunday, 18 October 2009 20:40 (5 years ago) Permalink

check the moma website under "Looking at Music 2". I think it as mostly about some art instillation/film he's got in the Venice Biennual now or something?

dan selzer, Monday, 19 October 2009 00:00 (5 years ago) Permalink

I was hoping he was going to talk in Welsh, about being Welsh.

oater to oxidation (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 19 October 2009 00:39 (5 years ago) Permalink

I think he was going to interview Joe Walsh, about eating Welsh Rarebit.

dan selzer, Monday, 19 October 2009 02:01 (5 years ago) Permalink

Cale and Walsh need to restart their long-dormant collab Walsh Rarebit ... shit was off the hook.

tylerw, Monday, 19 October 2009 02:04 (5 years ago) Permalink

ahem ILX user tylerw please report to the "five jazz album runs" voting thread

sleeve, Monday, 19 October 2009 02:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

Damn, gotta check out that Unterberger book. Boring writer but his subject matter's always interesting.

Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 19 October 2009 05:19 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeha, often when Unterberger inserts an opinion into his Velvets book, I find myself disagreeing with him. But as a reference, and as a history of the band, I think it's unparalleled. Also, tons of great photos/posters/ephemera, stuff I'd never seen before. And I appreciate that he has in fact listened to the bootlegs, which a lot of writers before him don't seem to have done. In general he doesn't seem too down with the experimental side of the group, even though he does give plenty of space to Cale's pre-VU work, as well as Angus MacLise, which is nice.

tylerw, Monday, 19 October 2009 14:48 (5 years ago) Permalink

There's no way I am gonna be able to finish reading it, tbh.

Trip Maker, Monday, 19 October 2009 14:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

OK, so I'm familiar with the differences between the original "closet mix" of the 3rd LP and the Valentin (sp?) mix that was put out in the 80's reissue series. I know that "Some Kinda Love" is a different take altogether on the Valentin one. My trainspotter question is: which mix does the recent 4 Men With Beards reissue have? "Cause I already have an original closet one and am kicking myself for not picking the alternate mix up a few years ago when it was cheap.

sleeve, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 06:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

4M reissue has the Valentin mix.

willem, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 08:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

awesome, thanks.

sleeve, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 08:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

Think I prefer the Valentin mix, tbh. At least, the take of "Some Kinda Love" is superior.

tylerw, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 13:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

preordered Kugelberg has arrived

Snop Snitchin, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 15:10 (5 years ago) Permalink

is it mainly photos/posters and stuff? not sure if I need to shell out the $$$ ... Does it come with a CD or something?

tylerw, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 16:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

I went to Kugelberg's apt once to talk about some post-punk/DIY stuff, and in this one room where he had his record collection, or small portions of it, he had all these cabinets with 12" sized panels, and in each panel was a copy of the first Velvet Underground record. Perhaps different states of peeling, different pressings, different photo states on the back, I don't remember, it was pretty impressive though.

dan selzer, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 17:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

Blimey, how many have I got now? I have the UK original, the Banana one with a 97% intact banana, um.... Oh, an HMV box set version, a deluxe CDversion, oh and how many more...

Mark G, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 18:22 (5 years ago) Permalink

Wow, mono White Light/White Heat from that Nuns Seawall blog is making me really happy. Of everything I've heard of theirs (Matrix excepted) that's the thing that most needs a legit release (and I kind of wonder why it hasn't happened already).

dlp9001, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 21:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, not sure why they haven't followed up that deluxe VU&Nico from six or seven years ago with deluxe editions of White Light and the third album ... Maybe VU&Nico didn't do that well, since it didn't have any unreleased stuff on it?

tylerw, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 21:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

i thought these would've come out domestically by now, but i scored Japanese versions a couple/few years ago of wl/wh, s/t, 1969 live, and V.U.
the only one that's not a big improvement is '69 live. both white light, and the velvet underground really sound noticeably "better"(IMO) than the mid-1990's releases. and v.u. sounds greatly improved over its original cd release

outdoor_miner, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 22:02 (5 years ago) Permalink

LPs? Yeah, I got the 3rd album, it was the only Valentin version readily available at the time.

Mark G, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 22:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

Oh, and does the V.U. one have that intro on "Foggy Notion" snipped from the CD?

Mark G, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 22:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

Hey, this is the trainspotting thread, innit?

I'll be picking up that singles box tomorrow from the postie!

Will report back tomorrow.

Mark G, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 22:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

Oh, and does the V.U. one have that intro on "Foggy Notion" snipped from the CD?

I believe that this is only on the original 1985 vinyl pressing but I dunno about the new 4 Men one. It's definitely not on the '85 CD.

speaking of trainspotting, check out this alternate version of VU!

Pre-release cassette sent to radio stations contained what was to be the original version of the album, with different mixes and with Ferryboat Bill in place of Ocean (version different from the Another View one).

(from , a great resource)

sleeve, Wednesday, 21 October 2009 00:14 (5 years ago) Permalink

Wellp, mine's just arrived.

Mark G, Thursday, 27 November 2014 17:46 (4 months ago) Permalink

.. and you know that little bit of guitar that's on the VU album but not any CD edition of "Foggy Notion" ?

It's Longer! From the slate to the end of the track!

Mark G, Friday, 28 November 2014 15:14 (4 months ago) Permalink

Anyone seen this footage shot at the Boston Tea Party in 1967 (by Warhol no less )before?

Letsby Avenue (Tom D.), Tuesday, 2 December 2014 17:31 (3 months ago) Permalink

yeah it floated around in trainspotter circles earlier this year. definitely fun to see, but also very frustrating.

tylerw, Tuesday, 2 December 2014 17:42 (3 months ago) Permalink


You would think Fricke would get the name of Lou's first single right, but no it is NOT "Leave Her to Me"


some kind of terrible IDM with guitars (sleeve), Monday, 15 December 2014 05:24 (3 months ago) Permalink

what the fricke!
i don't even hate david fricke, but it seems like he should just call it quits on writing VU liners at this point. hasn't he said all he can say?
would prefer if they got someone interesting to write about the third record ... luc sante or somebody?

tylerw, Monday, 15 December 2014 15:20 (3 months ago) Permalink

You should have done it!

Root It Oot (Tom D.), Monday, 15 December 2014 15:23 (3 months ago) Permalink

Then again, curse of the sub-ed and all that...

Mark G, Monday, 15 December 2014 15:28 (3 months ago) Permalink

fricke's liner notes for peel slowly and see were revelatory for me as a young'un...

Nixon head is essential. (stevie), Monday, 15 December 2014 15:40 (3 months ago) Permalink

put me in coach! i've been vu trainspotting for 20+ years now...

tylerw, Monday, 15 December 2014 15:42 (3 months ago) Permalink

yeah, i think those PSAS notes are good

tylerw, Monday, 15 December 2014 15:42 (3 months ago) Permalink

fwiw the liner notes are good, it was just that one little thing and it's right at the beginning and it jumped out at me.

the photos and gig flyers are amazing. haven't actually listened to the Matrix CDs yet, just got it yesterday.

some kind of terrible IDM with guitars (sleeve), Monday, 15 December 2014 15:46 (3 months ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

This 6CD thing is a revelation. I mean, all the live Matrix stuff is amazing enough, mixed crystal clear, after decades of dodgy audience recordings this is like thunder from the heavens. Complaints about the incomplete nature of this set are legit (I think there were four nights taped?), and I am resigned to all of it coming out in five years, but whatever. I just wish there was more banter besides the instant-classic intro to "I Can't Stand It" - I may have missed something my first time through, though.

On top of all that glorious live material, the individual mixing decisions on the 1969 sessions disc seem very well thought out. Guitars sound so good on the new mix of "One Of These Days', all kinds of cool things I'd never noticed. second guitar seems much more prominent on the new mix of "Lisa Says" as well. Pretty much everything sounds better than/as good as the VU/Another View versions - I think the ones that have new mixes were never properly mixed down in the first place, as opposed to the ones w/original mix acetates? It's so confusing. The new mix of "Coney Island" in particular has much better vocals w/o the effects, you can practically see a young Jonathan Richman taking notes. The original mixes suit "I'm Sticking With You" and "She's My Best Friend", the new mix of "I Can't Stand It" really brings out the guitars again, fuck this whole disc is like a new listening experience!

some kind of terrible IDM with guitars (sleeve), Tuesday, 30 December 2014 04:41 (3 months ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...


tylerw, Thursday, 22 January 2015 20:28 (2 months ago) Permalink

fwiw a single-disc edit is now on Spotify

the top 40 is just the sound of autotuned crying (sleeve), Thursday, 22 January 2015 20:28 (2 months ago) Permalink

ha yeah, i've got the two discs, i just mean, release every second of these things.
anyway, i like the new VU mixes for the most part EXCEPT Ride Into The Sun -- what is going on there? bass sounds out of whack for most of the beginning, kinda messes up the whole experience for me. i guess it's cool hearing a new mix, but it is definitely not my preferred version.

tylerw, Thursday, 22 January 2015 20:30 (2 months ago) Permalink

The only new VU mix that I think misses the mark is "Lisa Says." The reverb on the 1985 mix was so perfect, and reinforced a certain quality that it shared with the Pretenders' version of "Thin Line Between Love and Hate." The new mix sounds claustrophobic and insular.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 22 January 2015 21:04 (2 months ago) Permalink

hmm will have to listen back to the VU Lisa Says mix...
as long as we're picking nits, the sequencing on both the 1969 sessions disc and the matrix discs could be better...

tylerw, Thursday, 22 January 2015 21:23 (2 months ago) Permalink

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