The Boo Radleys, Classic or Dud?

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I completely agree with Bee that Kingsize only reveals itself to be their best album after a fair few plays. I can understand if people give up before that stage, but it really is worth it. I was co-running the Boo fanclub at the time (had been since around the re-release of Lazarus), and I remember that for the first time, I wasn?t very taken with the early versions of the songs I was playing. The band didn?t seem too happy either, although I think they were just getting tired of a lot of things rather than being unhappy with the music. Up until that point, everything had seemed effortless for them ? they would breeze into a studio and knock things out at a fantastic rate. It all just *happened*. But Kingsize seemed like more of a slog.

When I check back, the finished album tracks were almost the same as the ones I was having a hard time with ? simple things like good sequencing brought the album to life a bit. Free Huey and Kingsize were grafted on as late additions (ironically the worst and best tracks). The early demo of Kingsize was drone-pop, and sounded like early Spiritualized, who Martin used to adore.

It was heartbreaking that they split on the back of such a great album. But if no-one is buying your records, what can you do?

Ian Edmond (ianedmond) on Tuesday, June 7, 2005 7:13 AM (1 year ago)

― Bee OK, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 15:23 (seventeen years ago) link

I've heard it dozens of times! I listened to it loads and loads and loads when it first came out about 8 or 9 years ago. Its appeal has not lasted. It's good, but C'Mon kids is better, never mind Giant Steps.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 15:24 (seventeen years ago) link

[Removed Illegal Link]

― Bee OK, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 15:25 (seventeen years ago) link

If that's who I think it is then I know Ian and his wife.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 15:25 (seventeen years ago) link

There isn't a Boos release that I don't *like* but I have to agree with Sick Mouthy on this one, sorry Bee. Kingsize isn't so much a slog to listen to, but the band do really sound like they're trudging through a lot of difficulty. The lyrics are goofy in some ways, but whereas previously they'd come off as charming, they now sound a bit embarassing. A lot of the musical ideas (the drill'n'bass bit at the beginning) just reeks of tokenism which is Brave Captain's downfall too. I dunno... Wake Up, Giant Steps had this really intelligent and insightful songwriting vibe whereas on Kingsize (and perhaps a little on C'Mon Kids) there's this forced, awkward vibe going on as if they're too worried to just let it flow and have a good time making music.

At the same time, with Wake Up (and GS) the emotions ran so much deeper to me. Wake Up was just this incredible concept album about mid-20s disillusionment wrapped up in a psych-pop parcel, whereas the Kingsize songs feel like they're rubbing up against each other and jostling all over the place. Rubbish artwork too.

I still quite like it though, despite myself.

― the next grozart, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 15:52 (seventeen years ago) link

I probably only listened to Kingsize a few times before selling it on, thought it was terrible. Oh well. But then I haven't wanted to listen to Wake Up or C'mon Kids for years either.

― Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 15:56 (seventeen years ago) link

I'd forgotten Kingsize even existed! That's how firmly it stuck in my memory...

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 15:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Is it "Monuments For A Dead Century" that has the absolutely mental squelch breakdown at the end where the sound coalesces and spins and pivots upwards through the centre, the guitars disolved into electronics? Cos that bit kind of encapsulates the album for me - the song itself is, from a distance, typical Boo Radleys "room with many doors" type thing, twists, turns, and the ending is bonkers and silly and really sensually stimulating, BUT... the song itself is also really, REALLY tired-sounding and a little pointlessly "say something about the nation, Martin", to the extent of seeming lyrically trite, and the end bit though fun is also kind of stupid and unnecessary, like they found a mad synth setting or (I know it's before the days of) plug-in and used it for the sake of it.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 16:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I really hated that song at first for the reasons you say. It seemed like a cop out singing about the milennium (and that bit where they spell it out, it sucks). I grew to it because of the quality of the music, but yeah. Another example is the scratching at the beginning of Heaven's At The Bottom Of This Glass - also stupid and unnecessary. Why don't I feel this way about the backwards singing on Find the Answer Within, or the weird noises at the beginning of Bullfrog Green, or the laughing/crying woman in One Is For? It's not like the Boos were actually doing anything different from being the Boos, but on here it seemed a bit pointless.

Jimmy Webb Is God would have been incredible had it not been for the yicky lyrics.

― the next grozart, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 16:11 (seventeen years ago) link

It was the interview where Martin related depression at the thought of going out and promoting "Comb your Hair" as the third single that did it for him, where I thought "I can see your point yeah"

― Mark G, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 16:16 (seventeen years ago) link

Did Martin mention his age on every album he did after Giant Steps?

GS: "Baby's gone but there'll be more, I'm only 23"
WU: "25, don't recall a time I felt this alive"
CK: ???
KS: "28 but I feel much younger, to this I'll attest, I'm a beautiful mess"

― the next grozart, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 16:17 (seventeen years ago) link

And yet Sice sang them lines. Ah but they were classmates though.

― Mark G, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 16:18 (seventeen years ago) link

It's on CK too, definitely. I forget which song, but he was 27 in it!

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 16:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Giant Steps (July 1993) 23
Wake Up! (March 1995) 25
C'mon Kids (September 1996) 26?
Kingsize (October 1998) 29!

― Mark G, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 16:21 (seventeen years ago) link

COMB YOUR HAIR? That's just Something Changed by Pulp covered practically note for note. What a bad idea for a single.

There's something terribly camp about Kingsize isn't there? There's all these mentions of finding God and leaning on your brother and being all palsy walsy with your best fwiends and crying because of a train leaving and putting on make up and stuff. It wasn't as if Carr hadn't addressed things like friendship and religion plenty of times before, but the twee factor is hitting the roof on that album. I can almost see Sice in some kind of ballerina costume with glitter on his eyes on some of the songs.

― the next grozart, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 16:21 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm being dead cruel. They are definitely my favourite band of the 90s bar none, but reassession has made me realise I like their albums progressively less and less after Giant Steps. Don't get me wrong, they're genius and even at the end of their careers were still the best b-sides band in history with that Bugsy Malone cover (camp, see?) and that one called Just Hug Me And Tell Me Everything's Going To Be Alright (or whatever it was - twee, see?) - both extraordinary songs which I don't understand why they weren't on Kingsize.

― the next grozart, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 16:25 (seventeen years ago) link

for me the lyrics hit right at home. to me it wasn't about God but more about bonding with friends and coming to a realization that 30 is just around the corner. different strokes, i guess, but the music was great as well and doesn't come off as twee to me.

― Bee OK, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 17:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Hold me etc was 1) on Kingsize (Australia version) 2) Recorded during the Cmon Kids sessions...

― Mark G, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 17:20 (seventeen years ago) link

oh and 3) on the UK double album version...

― Mark G, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 17:29 (seventeen years ago) link

there was a uk double album??

maybeit's cos i'm not 29 yet. I remember digging out Wake Up when I was 25 and suddenly connecting with the lyrics for the first time. I'd had the album since 15 yrs old.

― the next grozart, Tuesday, 20 March 2007 19:16 (seventeen years ago) link

Kingsize (October 1998) 29!

it's not widely known that all the lyrics for this album were written on the morning of release

the recording sessions did not in fact take place until three weeks after the first copies were sold.
some say this accounts for the underwhelmed initial reactions

― energy flash gordon, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 11:44 (seventeen years ago) link

don't get it..

― the next grozart, Wednesday, 21 March 2007 11:56 (seventeen years ago) link

it is possible that the lyric remarking his age as 28 was in fact written when he was 28, even if the album upon which a recorded version appears was not released until after his subsequent birthday.

― energy flash gordon, Thursday, 22 March 2007 07:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Other possible explanations:

1) although actually 29, he said that he was 28 in order to rhyme with the word "ate" / "bait" / "crate" / "date" / "fate" / "great" / "hate" / "Kate" / "late" / "mate" / "rate"/ "state" / "wait" (or similar, delete as applicable) at the end of the previous / next line;

2) he forgot how old he was and worked it out wrong (I have done this);

3) he routinely lies about his age;

4) he was kidnapped by a desperate childless couple when he was a very small child and given a new identity and his new "parents" regularly and consistently lied to him about his true date of birth;

― Stewart Osborne, Thursday, 22 March 2007 09:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Tell you what: I bet he doesn't mention his age thesedays in songs!

― Mark G, Thursday, 22 March 2007 09:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Although clearly not such a rich seam to mine as 28, I'm sure a mature and experienced songwriter could come up with plenty of words to rhyme with 37 ("heaven" / "Devon" / "leaven" / "Severn" / "Bev Bevan" ....)

If not, he'll just have to wait 'til next year and recycle some of the leftover rhymes for 28.

― Stewart Osborne, Thursday, 22 March 2007 09:42 (seventeen years ago) link

"You were seventeen, I was 37,
You were into Fuckpony, I preferred top Tory drummer Bev Bevan."

Might have to work on the scansion a bit more.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 09:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, you can see why Glen Gregory flipped that first line.

― Michael Jones, Thursday, 22 March 2007 09:57 (seventeen years ago) link

They wouldn't get away with that song these days.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 10:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Tell you what, I heard the Lurkers' "Just Thirteen" for the first time last week!

That killed their career somewhat. And it's got nothing to do with any perving!

But that's probably a different thread.

Oh, and I was reading Simon Reynolds' "Rip it up" book. One name jumped out at me! About the edge...

― Mark G, Thursday, 22 March 2007 10:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Look, no hands... ;-)

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 10:06 (seventeen years ago) link

yup.

― Mark G, Thursday, 22 March 2007 10:07 (seventeen years ago) link

"You were seventeen, I was 37,
You were into Fuckpony, I preferred top Tory drummer Bev Bevan."

"Well she was just 43
You know what I mean
And the way she looked
Wasn't too bad at all for a woman of that age (oooh!)"

― Stewart Osborne, Thursday, 22 March 2007 11:33 (seventeen years ago) link

"Tell you what, I heard the Lurkers' "Just Thirteen" for the first time last week!
That killed their career somewhat."

In retrospect and with the benefit of hindsight maybe should have realised that rhyming "thirteen" with "hurtin'" was inevitably going to be tantamount to commiting career suicide.

Why couldn't they just have stuck to rhyming "shadows" with "shadows", "ooh ooh" with "I love you", "tell her" with "fella", "Suzy" with "floozie" and "Chaos Brothers" with, er, "Chaos Brothers", rather than trying to introduce such radical pseudo-intellectual nearly-rhymes?

― Stewart Osborne, Thursday, 22 March 2007 11:45 (seventeen years ago) link

And yet, "Thirteen" by Big Star.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 12:26 (seventeen years ago) link

No offence but if you think it's as good as Giant Steps you're deranged.

It is way better than "Giant Steps", no nowhere close to the greatness of "Wake Up!" which was Boo Radleys' only great album.

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 22 March 2007 12:38 (seventeen years ago) link

QED

― Mark G, Thursday, 22 March 2007 12:44 (seventeen years ago) link

two months pass...

GIANT STEPS IS THE GREATEST INDIE GUITAR RECORD EVER EVER EVER RIGHT

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 5 June 2007 19:51 (sixteen years ago) link

Uh.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 5 June 2007 19:53 (sixteen years ago) link

I am drinking alone; ignore me.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 5 June 2007 19:56 (sixteen years ago) link

I DO think this is a fucking awesome, awesome, remarkable record, however.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 5 June 2007 19:56 (sixteen years ago) link

it is

― the next grozart, Tuesday, 5 June 2007 22:42 (sixteen years ago) link

It's good.

― teflon monkey, Tuesday, 5 June 2007 22:49 (sixteen years ago) link

its allright. I'm rarely in the mood for it.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 5 June 2007 22:52 (sixteen years ago) link

I feel the same pretty much. I didn't think it was great initially, thought it was great for a period, stopped listening to it after that period and still haven't really recovered.

― teflon monkey, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 00:25 (sixteen years ago) link

Giant Steps is a pretty epic album. And I DON'T OWN IT, AM I INSANE. I havent heard it in something like 12 years, good god. I have to rectify this asap.

― Trayce, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 01:37 (sixteen years ago) link

Wasnt Martin having a breakdown/alcohol problem when they wrote this album? I seem to recall at least one track being really desperate and bleak.

― Trayce, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 01:40 (sixteen years ago) link

About four or five amazing songs on it (Lazurus, Wish I Was Skinny, Barney, White Noise). The rest of it can sound good if you're in the mood or are the right age. Especially good when you're around the college age. A bit like Galaxie 500 in that respect.

― Cunga, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 01:42 (sixteen years ago) link

I am drinking alone; ignore me.

This is my default position re: knows-fuck-all

― voice of truth, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 02:02 (sixteen years ago) link

yes, one of the best albums of the 90's, it was their White Album.

anyways this link is a great read, especially where the fans were able to write their thought on this album. when it came out it was just so epic, adventurous and monstrous, it seem like the shoegazer scene, as it was called, was going to take over music. no other band outside MBV's Loveless was able to match what the Boos did but it was Oasis and Blur who broke out instead.

http://www.booradleys.co.uk/giantsteps/

― Bee OK, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 02:51 (sixteen years ago) link

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