I don't take Dylan as a theologian particularly seriously. As far as the lyrics go from this period, what I like is how mystified Dylan seems by what he's saying. There's conviction there, but whatever he experienced, his lyrical voice was having trouble expressing.
I like the music on Saved a lot more than on Slow Train Coming, on the whole. I think Wexler understood Dylan's vision better on this one.
― Euler, Tuesday, 6 October 2009 20:41 (3 years ago) Permalink
Shot of Love > Slow Train Coming > Saved
― kornrulez6969, Tuesday, 6 October 2009 20:43 (3 years ago) Permalink
and yeah, the humor on Slow Train Coming is puzzling in the context of this, like, topically heavy album. "Man Gave Names To All The Animals" is a dopey lyric, like a Basement Tapes lyric without the double entendres. But it's still good for a simple laugh. It's corny but that's our Bob.
― Euler, Tuesday, 6 October 2009 20:43 (3 years ago) Permalink
"Shot of Love > Slow Train Coming > Saved" seems to be the conventional wisdom and I get why that is, but anyone reading who has ears, let them hear Saved again. Although I've tried for years to buy it on CD and never succeeded in finding it.
― Euler, Tuesday, 6 October 2009 20:45 (3 years ago) Permalink
Has "Saved" been remastered? I've actually never owned it! My older brother had it ...
― tylerw, Tuesday, 6 October 2009 20:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
eMusic has Saved - but I don't know if it's been remastered. I think Saved is better than Slow Train - and the production is definitely a lot less sterile.
― o. nate, Tuesday, 6 October 2009 20:51 (3 years ago) Permalink
I remember hating "Gotta Serve Somebody" in 1979, but I heard it on the radio the other night and thought it sounded great. I love the combination of the air-tight production and that creepy, menacing vocal. I've always resisted getting these albums but I might have to add them on eMusic.
― Brad C., Tuesday, 6 October 2009 20:53 (3 years ago) Permalink
I love the combination of the air-tight production and that creepy, menacing vocal.
yeah this is the kinda contrast (intentional or not) that finally got me to appreciate Steely Dan - this shiny, sleek, perfectly constructed light pop that's set against an actively creepy but sorta funny narrative/singer
― the taint of Macca is strong (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 6 October 2009 20:55 (3 years ago) Permalink
Dylan's music is missing the harmonic complexity and jazzy solos of the Steely Dan though - with this kind of production it ends up sounding more like Dire Straits than Steely Dan, unfortunately.
― o. nate, Tuesday, 6 October 2009 21:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
I generally like the slickness of Slow Train, I think it does have a kind of menace to it.
Elsewhere, some of the surreal, Book of Revelations meets Highway 61 lyrics are really incredible -- stuff like the aforementioned 'Angelina', "Caribbean Wind", "Foot of Pride", "Jokerman" etc. Really weird, ambitious writing ...
― tylerw, Tuesday, 6 October 2009 21:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
yeah I'm going to make an extended dive into Bob's 80s this week I think, looking for more of the confusion that's grabbing me on these. By the 2000s I think he's figured out his new lyrical voice and that's probably my favorite Bob overall but I'm intrigued at present by the struggle for a new voice after Street-Legal (I need a copy of Budokan too I think).
― Euler, Tuesday, 6 October 2009 21:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
Budokan has its moments, but overall it's pretty limp. The later US 1978 tour is waaaay better. Look for the Hush Sweet Charlotte bootleg ...
― tylerw, Tuesday, 6 October 2009 21:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
OTM -- what I was trying to say upthread.
― Roman Polanski now sleeps in prison. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 October 2009 21:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
sounding more like Dire Straits than Steely Dan, unfortunately.
def. the sound of Dire Straits (dunno how unfortunate that is)
― the taint of Macca is strong (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 6 October 2009 22:00 (3 years ago) Permalink
A sound I would, of course, expect from the producer of Slow Train Coming.
― Roman Polanski now sleeps in prison. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 October 2009 22:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
No, wait -- Knopfler didn't produce STC.
― Roman Polanski now sleeps in prison. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 October 2009 22:05 (3 years ago) Permalink
Wexler ennit. altho Dylan specifically was going for Knopfler's sound and wanted him originally iirc
― the taint of Macca is strong (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 6 October 2009 22:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
Doesn't Knopfler play on Slow Train, though? Or am I making that up.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 6 October 2009 22:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
He sure does, which explains my confusion (he did produce Infidels).
― Roman Polanski now sleeps in prison. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 October 2009 22:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
I said that Wexler better figures out Dylan's vision on Saved than on Slow Train Coming, but a better way to put what I was trying to express is: Wexler helped Dylan realize a better sound for the vision Dylan had, such as they understood it, on Saved than on Slow Train Coming. Dylan may not have agreed, since he dumped Wexler for Plotkin on Shot of Love and then, yeah, Knopfler for Infidels.
― Euler, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 04:16 (3 years ago) Permalink
This topic has provided the only praise that I have ever seen for the 'Christian' period of Bob Dylan.
― Josh L, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 13:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
I think you'll find that serious (haha) Dylan fans have plenty of good stuff to say about this period. Obviously the evangelism of the lyrics is always going to be a turn-off for some, but it really is a fascinating time for Dylan.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 13:43 (3 years ago) Permalink
The cover art is great too:
― Euler, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 18:55 (3 years ago) Permalink
haha, that cover is nutso. you'd think it was some super-obscure private-press xtian rock record from 1977. But no, it's a BOB DYLAN record.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 21:02 (3 years ago) Permalink
There's conviction there, but whatever he experienced, his lyrical voice was having trouble expressing.
That sounds about right. The songs seem to be either literal renderings of scripture or these terrifically confused metaphors.
Count me as a fan of Budokan (since someone referenced it upthread)--to a point. It seems like a bit of a conceptual coup, actually: rendering his '60s songs, including some protest numbers, as fully-arranged, showstopping Vegas numbers. Actually it sort of anticipates his Perry Como-esque Xmas album in its nonchalant mindfuckery.
Also, I thought the brief segment w/Christian Bale in I'm Not There captured this era of Dylan pretty well/amusingly. Although I am not a big fan of that film as a whole.
― amateurist, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 23:01 (3 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, I actually thought that the I'm Not There/Christian (!) Bale segment was the most successful in that movie. Just the utter sincerity of Bale's performance caught something vital about this period in Dylan's career. Of course, the sincerity is just another mask, but it's maybe one of the more convincing masks.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 23:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
you guys are nuts that movie is awesome
"look its Allen Ginsberg!"
― the taint of Macca is strong (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 7 October 2009 23:10 (3 years ago) Permalink
oh i liked it! it's like catnip for Dylan nerds.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 23:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
did you guys catch moondog in the greenwich village sequence??
― amateurist, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 23:12 (3 years ago) Permalink
i've been trying to get my gf (not a Dylan nerd) to watch it so I can get a neutral assessment
― feed them to the (Linden Ave) lions (will), Wednesday, 7 October 2009 23:13 (3 years ago) Permalink
yeah i honestly don't think anyone not steeped (DEEPLY steeped) in Dylan lore would get a whole lot out of the movie. Maybe I'm wrong ...
― tylerw, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 23:14 (3 years ago) Permalink
Film nerds, maybe ...
― tylerw, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 23:15 (3 years ago) Permalink
btw i'm not kidding about moondog, haynes sticks a guy in a moondog costume in one of the quick panning shots of the early '60s village. i kind of want to hug haynes for that.
― amateurist, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 23:17 (3 years ago) Permalink
I saw the film with two folks I wouldn't really characterize as Dylan nerds (ie, my wife and an old gay buddy of ours) and they both really dug it. They don't hate his music or anything but they're hardly obsessives (y'know my wife has some sorta weird childhood associations with Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, buddy likes early 70s Dylan, etc.)
I think I was the only one of the three of us who was excited about all the detail/ephemera tho.
― the taint of Macca is strong (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 7 October 2009 23:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
and yeah I spotted Moondog
yeah it's possible that I actually didn't appreciate the movie as a "movie" just because of the Dylan trivia overload that is practically every frame.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 23:25 (3 years ago) Permalink
I didn't enjoy it as much the second time - it kinda lacks some narrative motion, there's no real arc to it. But it is fun and I love that Haynes does this kind of thing (I am also a big fan of Velvet Goldmine)
― the taint of Macca is strong (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 7 October 2009 23:27 (3 years ago) Permalink
it was real splashy and my immediate reaction was overstimulation and enthusiasm, but within minutes i was like, "what was that all about?" and my impression began to sour. i should see it again.
― amateurist, Wednesday, 7 October 2009 23:28 (3 years ago) Permalink
I've still not seen the film (or heard the soundtrack, though I'm less excited about the latter---I fell for too many tributes in the 90s)...mostly because I don't watch any films these days. I'll try to check it out in the next few years, though; I've heard lots good about it.
― Euler, Thursday, 8 October 2009 07:27 (3 years ago) Permalink
Soundtrack has some duds, but is overall pretty good. Willie Nelson w/ Calexico doing "Senor" is probably my fave.
― tylerw, Thursday, 8 October 2009 14:46 (3 years ago) Permalink
oh "Angelina" is really great, isn't it? The organ playing is terrific, and overall the playing is very sympathetic to what Dylan is trying to get across: a lament, presumably for a woman; but it's much more sympathetic to the woman than his 60s songs about women (and more sympathetic than the Blood on the Tracks too I think). Her relationship with God is confusing Dylan: she's surrounded by God's angels, but she doesn't seek God, exactly. But Bob isn't sure about his relationship to her: she can read his mind, but she's wearing a blindfold too. There is too much occlusion, but he'll do anything for her in God's truth.
― Euler, Wednesday, 5 May 2010 08:43 (3 years ago) Permalink
oh man it's so good. Do I need your permission to turn the other cheek?If you can read my mind, why must I speak?
― tylerw, Wednesday, 5 May 2010 14:49 (3 years ago) Permalink
A Better Contract: November 16, 1979 @ Warfield, SF...wow. Dylan's singing on "I Believe In You" sounds like it comes from a very deep place, like crying somehow expressed as a moaning shout. There are none of the "greatest hits" on this show: just the new gospel songs, and the playing is hot; not so different from the 1978 live sound (that we talked about sorta recently on the Street-Legal thread), but more focused. The crowd seems into it, too!
― Euler, Tuesday, 15 June 2010 17:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
What ferocious courage he has! his preaching at the end of "Precious Angel", going into "Slow Train", about how the world is going to be destroyed & Christ is going to set up his kingdom in Jerusalem for a thousand years; & after the crowd erupts he asks, "Do you believe those things?" and they just shout back, & it's hard to tell what they really think. But I'd gather that a typical Dylan show in San Francisco is not going to attract a lot of people believing those things. It's pretty in-your-face!
― Euler, Tuesday, 15 June 2010 17:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
i don't think i've heard that one -- is it a good recording? euro tour from 1981 is probably the best gospel-era tour recordings I've heard.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 15 June 2010 18:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
The only boot from that era I have is Rock Solid - the Massey Hall 1980 show. Absolute stunner.
― EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 15 June 2010 18:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah, that's a killer show -- the 81 stuff is a little less fire n brimstone (he mixes in older material), but the arrangements/band are very nice.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 15 June 2010 19:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
The recording is pretty ace, as far as I can hear---they could put it on a Bootleg Series. Actually a comp of this with the Massey Hall show would make a great Bootleg Series.
― Euler, Tuesday, 15 June 2010 19:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah, a gospel bootleg series would be welcome. one of the rare pre neverending tour eras not represented by a live album ... guess there's no official petty/dylan live album.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 15 June 2010 19:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
The 30th anniversary show is a Dylan/Petty show of sorts, no?
― Euler, Tuesday, 15 June 2010 19:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
this review is sort of ...mean? ungenerous?
not too far into this album but really dug the version of Satisfied Mind, very Mississippi Fred McDowell
― Artful Dodderer (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 24 February 2012 23:45 (1 year ago) Permalink
and this review is just fucking ridiculous
― Artful Dodderer (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 24 February 2012 23:47 (1 year ago) Permalink
That Kurt Loder review of Saved is actually one of the better ones I've read of that album. He's pretty well attuned to the vitality of the music and the possibilities of the style, even if at times he lets the preachiness of the lyrics spoil his enjoyment. I've read some very negative reviews of Saved, calling it perhaps his worst album and saying the band sounds lifeless or dull. Loder is at least a bit more evenhanded. That Wenner review of Slow Train is way over the top in its effusiveness, though that album does have its moments.
― o. nate, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 02:24 (1 year ago) Permalink
I like Slow Train Coming a lot but the Wenner adulation is so sad and desperate-sounding
― Artful Dodderer (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 16:26 (1 year ago) Permalink
guess I'm in the mainstream but I also find Slow Train pretty awesome and Saved lifeless and dull
― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Friday, 2 March 2012 11:00 (1 year ago) Permalink
What ferocious courage he has! his preaching at the end of "Precious Angel", going into "Slow Train", about how the world is going to be destroyed & Christ is going to set up his kingdom in Jerusalem for a thousand years; & after the crowd erupts he asks, "Do you believe those things?" and they just shout back, & it's hard to tell what they really think.
i dunno, the crowd seems pretty down to be saved.
euler's right, this show is straight fire.
― j., Monday, 30 July 2012 04:14 (9 months ago) Permalink
she was a backwoods girl, but she sure was realistic
― j., Sunday, 30 December 2012 05:35 (4 months ago) Permalink
ha I used this as my Facebook status the other day
― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 30 December 2012 14:08 (4 months ago) Permalink
i was just looking for this thread but couldn't find it for some reason. was listening to another one of those 1980 warfield shows (an improved source, i think?). an absolutely bonkers groom still waiting at the altar w/ bloomfield guesting on guitar. that song is nuts.
― tylerw, Sunday, 30 December 2012 15:11 (4 months ago) Permalink
Is there a link, by chance? (yeah you would've posted it but can't resist asking)
― dow, Sunday, 30 December 2012 19:38 (4 months ago) Permalink
here's where I got em http://ow.ly/gru4O http://ow.ly/gru54 great show all around.
― tylerw, Monday, 31 December 2012 05:04 (4 months ago) Permalink
Sometimes I feel so low-down and disgustedCan’t help but wonder what’s happenin’ to my companions
^^^ this song is so sick
― j., Thursday, 18 April 2013 01:23 (1 month ago) Permalink
Man Gave Names to All the Animals may be my favorite Dylan album-closer
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 18 April 2013 15:40 (1 month ago) Permalink
that is crazy talk but i <3 you for it
― tylerw, Thursday, 18 April 2013 16:50 (1 month ago) Permalink
Dylan himself (and Bono) adores Shot of Love's title track.
(and pj harvey)
― Eyeball Kicks, Thursday, 18 April 2013 18:08 (1 month ago) Permalink
I guess Desolation Row is a close second
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 18 April 2013 18:09 (1 month ago) Permalink
that and "it's all over now baby blue" are the ones that came to mind...
― tylerw, Thursday, 18 April 2013 18:13 (1 month ago) Permalink
the thing is I am kinda bored with both of those songs by the time they finally end, whereas the ending is actually the best thing about Man Gave Names to All the Animals
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 18 April 2013 18:16 (1 month ago) Permalink
btw this is great - http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/47121287935/caribbean-wind-bob-dylan-warfield-theatre
― tylerw, Thursday, 18 April 2013 19:29 (1 month ago) Permalink
still never heard Shot of Love, couldn't find a dl of it pre-mediafire/megaupload legal meltdown
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 18 April 2013 19:34 (1 month ago) Permalink
it's all over slsk
― j., Thursday, 18 April 2013 20:22 (1 month ago) Permalink
grrrrrrreat toronto full show here [for the time being]
― tylerw, Thursday, 23 May 2013 14:41 (2 days ago) Permalink
!!! LOVE
the cold open when Dylan and the band kick in is grate
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 23 May 2013 16:10 (2 days ago) Permalink
i think this was filmed by howard alk, who did eat the document, hard rain and renaldo and clara w/ dylan. that guy really went through some things with bob!
― tylerw, Thursday, 23 May 2013 16:30 (2 days ago) Permalink
really is an amazing, passionate performance -- dylan certainly couldn't phone this stuff in or rely on the hits.
― tylerw, Thursday, 23 May 2013 16:32 (2 days ago) Permalink
I don't recognize a couple things here - are some of these songs on shot of love?
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 23 May 2013 16:40 (2 days ago) Permalink
maybe it's just this "Cover Down, Break Through" song I don't know
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 23 May 2013 16:41 (2 days ago) Permalink
yeah "ain't gonna go to hell" and "cover down break through" were never unreleased afaik. both pretty great!
― tylerw, Thursday, 23 May 2013 16:49 (2 days ago) Permalink
who's the bass player here? dude is cracking me up
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 23 May 2013 17:01 (2 days ago) Permalink
whoa had never heard ain't gonna go to hell.
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 23 May 2013 17:04 (2 days ago) Permalink
tim drummond is the bass player -- james brown, neil young, jj cale etc.
― tylerw, Thursday, 23 May 2013 17:12 (2 days ago) Permalink
& yeah ain't gonna go to hell is a pretty commercial sounding number -- lord only knows why dylan never released it.
― tylerw, Thursday, 23 May 2013 17:13 (2 days ago) Permalink
ah yes, Drummond. he just has the funniest wide-legged hunch-n-bob when he gets into it.
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 23 May 2013 17:13 (2 days ago) Permalink
"Philosophers like ... Plato... uh, Jimmy Reed"
lol
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 23 May 2013 17:28 (2 days ago) Permalink
that show was amazing
― Euler, Thursday, 23 May 2013 18:30 (2 days ago) Permalink