2008 Primaries Thread

Are we talking about "perception" versus "reality"? Look, when she attacks she's merely shrill, period. She does though have a way with an imperious one-liner.

As expected, Hillary's national lead collapses like the Big Dig. Rasmussen had her up by 17 last week... today she's up by 4.

yr both right - her shrill nastiness doesnt play as well cause shes a woman.

I know I'm going down a dangerous road by saying this, but Barack Obama is black in just about the least threatening way possible to white Americans that might otherwise have a problem with a black candidate. He's a bi-racial guy raised in the Midwest, and he doesn't have any of the trappings of the stereotype of "Black Politician" that gets denigrated so much on Fox News. Plenty of Americans will vote for a black candidate as long as he doesn't remind them too much that he's black.

If anything, I think whispering campaigns about his "MUSLIM PAST" will hurt him more than his race.

Hillary on the other hand has qualities that people who are already hesitant about a woman president especially dislike in a woman (though, as pointed out, they'd be fine in a man).

no one says a man is "shrill" unless he has a skinny neck

Ron Paul can get pretty shrill.

It's the Tiger Woods thing, Hurting.

can I just say?

LOL HILLARY FIREWALL GETTIN' HAXXOR3D

no one says a man is "shrill" unless he has a skinny neck

Well exactly. The very fact that there's a pejorative gender-specific term for aggressive behaviour...

U CAN SAY THAT LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

The first African American senator was in 1870. Since then we've had exactly four others. The last (and only current one) being Barack Obama.

what i don't understand is why "george w. bush" isn't included in every sentence these candidates make between now and election day

-- Tracer Hand, Monday, 7 January 2008 15:14 (59 minutes ago) Link

thats exactly why people LIKE obama, he's not waging the same battles as folks have been the last two terms. A couple 'lol george bush is dum' jokes and suddenly he's a hypocrit. much smarter to dismiss bush in passing as a member of a much larger club of idiots who cant get things done - esp in a PRIMARY campaign where that also indicts yr main rival

if you could make a line graph of 'ilxors interests in hearing bush-bashing' i bet it would have bottomed out like two years ago

Come the main event, I think you'll hear more Bush-bashing, implied or otherwise

I'm sure the Dems will try to tar any Republican candidate with that brush

billy kristols first times editorial (whywhywhy) is up and hes suddenly on huckabees dik for whatever devious reasons

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/opinion/07kristol.html

my favorite part is his imaginary savvy, moderately conservative New Hampshire Republican debate viewing friend

i'd guess he wants to sink romney and get his boy maccain in there

deej negative campaigning works, no matter why you think people like obama - and with george w. bush as president, negative campaigning is very easy - the ads don't even have to be particularly negative - they just have to remind people that GEORGE W. BUSH EXISTS, which the republicans are doing a pretty good job of making people forget

Negative campaigning works, but it looks bad coming from the candidates lips. Always better to have attack dogs do the dirty work for you.

This is a point the Bush campaigns REALLY understood well.

the problem with hillary's message is it spells it all out for you - instead of saying "look at how much shit we have to get done and how little time there is before it's too late," letting you then make the conclusion for yourself, "oh shit, better get someone who really knows what they're doing," she's "look at me, i'm so special, i really know what i'm doing," which is exactly what most people don't like about her

the clinton campaign takes another shit on the Iowa caucus (via Andrew Sullivan):

The Iowa caucus process is a broken and flawed process. It was designed to allow for the active party Dems generally known to one another to assign delegates and was not designed to handle a flood of students and independents. It was a system designed to give more power to Dem party loyalists. In the tension over whether the candidates should be chosen by the party or by the general public, the Iowa caucus was designed to give the party the advantage. For this reason, the Iowa system failed on Thursday.

Can someone explain to me the Michigan primary situation? Do they just not get a say in what candidates run now? If so that's effin crazy, yo

The Iowa caucus process is a broken and flawed process. It was designed to allow for the active party Dems generally known to one another to assign delegates and was not designed to handle a flood of students and independents. It was a system designed to give more power to Dem party loyalists. In the tension over whether the candidates should be chosen by the party or by the general public, the Iowa caucus was designed to give the party the advantage. For this reason, the Iowa system failed on Thursday.

Clinton spin or no, I also just heard a Brian Lehrer guest bring up the point (without any Clinton partisanship) that the current system was designed during the Vietnam war to give more power to Dem party bosses at a time when most Dem voters opposed the war but the bosses did not.

Nonetheless, Obama made a pretty smart move by using the acceptance speech to make Iowa sound even more important than anyone thought it was, thus de facto making it that important. He sounded more like he was accepting the party's nomination or even the White House, and I'm sure it was deliberate.

Yeah, but such a statement attests a thinly veiled contempt for young and independent voters, which is not what she wants to be doing right now. xpost

Yeah, it sounds bitter and snippy.

the iowa system didn't harm hillary did it? it harmed biden, dodd, kucinich...

What I hear from friends in MI is basically what is said in this article: their votes don't count.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080107/NEWS06/801070333

deej negative campaigning works, no matter why you think people like obama - and with george w. bush as president, negative campaigning is very easy - the ads don't even have to be particularly negative - they just have to remind people that GEORGE W. BUSH EXISTS, which the republicans are doing a pretty good job of making people forget

-- Tracer Hand, Monday, January 7, 2008 10:29 AM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

as a general rule yeah negative campaigning works, but bush faced - to no effect - an overwhelming amount of it in 04 only to win by a significant margin. The last thing i think we should do in bringing up bush is remind ppl of the condescending bush-bashing of the last 8 years

http://www.theindyvoice.com/george-bush-dick-cheney-dumb-fuck-mountain.jpg

lol!!!!

"look at me, i'm so special, i really know what i'm doing," which is exactly what most people maureen dowd doesn't like about her

You also need negative strategies that target potential voters for that candidate instead of just pandering to a smug base. The "Bush is dumb and doesn't understand the rest of the world" thing didn't seem to cross party lines very well, because it played into the idea that those smug liberals think we're just a bunch of hicks.

another line straight from dowd without a shred of evidence to support it

i really don't think we need to worry about people getting offended over insinuations of bush's stupidity and incompetence! they agree! who knows though, maybe the campaigns think like you do. but personally i think running against a historically unpopular president is a gimme - make the fight between the new broom of the democratics vs the failed policies of the bush administration

I think Obama and Huckabee both take a negative view of Bush as a given. In a way, by not having fought the early-2000s battles lets them focus on the future more than the past.

it's a given?? nothing is a given! these vipers will disappear bush like yesterday's pizza box if they can! and they will! people have tiny fucking memories! ignoring the fact that your opponent's current leader and president has almost single-handedly destroyed the world is insane.

new orleans is still a disaster area.

ground zero is still a hole in the ground.

more people without health insurance every week.

and soldiers dying every day.

but let's not mention any of this, let's be positive. jesus fc - born to lose

ignoring the fact that your opponent's current leader and president has almost single-handedly destroyed the world is insane.

i hate bush as much as the next cynthia mckinney but this is as delusional & self-important as right-wingers OMG WORLD WAR III!!!!! rhetoric about a few thousand confused jihadist dudes

Hart jumps on Obama - http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/01/former_dem_pres.html

the iowa system didn't harm hillary did it? it harmed biden, dodd, kucinich...

without the viability rule, edwards would have benefited less from 2nd-choicers, and she probably would have beat him to 2nd and not looked as weak

ahh, bill bradley.. good dude

nice jump shot

apparently he could ball so well cuz he had like crazy peripheral vision or some shit??

he's not that old either

Bradley's basketball ability was enhanced by his unusually wide peripheral vision. While most people's horizontal field covers 180 degrees, his covered 192 degrees. Vertically most people can see 47 degrees upward; Bradley could see 72 degrees.[3]

the next step in human evolution

new orleans is still a disaster area.

ground zero is still a hole in the ground.

more people without health insurance every week.

and soldiers dying every day.

but let's not mention any of this, let's be positive. jesus fc - born to lose

-- Tracer Hand, Monday, January 7, 2008 11:07 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

which is why spending time 'bush bashing' when you are trying to make the argument that through reasoned dialogue we can solve these problems is counterproductive to yr whole message (if you are obama)

is Shrum applying for a job? is Bradley?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpmbHvX9KtY

romney supporters in douchesack strategy shocker

when in the space of three years you've turned sentiment about the global hegemon from slight resentment/envy/admiration to outright fear and mistrust that automatically makes every global conflict 1,000 times more dangerous

i guess i'm tired of bill clinton's line that you need to talk about the other party as if they simply differ on the means to the same end that you want

Did any of you stop to think that maybe these people owned the signs? That they changed their mind after seeing McCain flip-flop on the bush tax cuts -- within a single interview? Or that they finally figured out he was lying about amnesty? Or maybe that they got tired of his playground bully shtick the other day?

These are not criminals. They realize they're being filmed and yet they are calm. Like you should be. Think, people.

when you are trying to make the argument that through reasoned dialogue we can solve these problems is counterproductive to yr whole message

i am trying to make the argument that we can solve these problems by booting as many republicans out of washington as humanly possible

yeah, i understand these signs are posted on public property etc etc and it's hard to source the video but it's still pretty amusing