101 reasons why punk sucks

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Sicko, we've done this a few times now but whatevs, can always give it a go.

I think like all genres, it's very easy to misunderstand Punk. God knows I've never really had much time for listening to endless three-chord songs about frustration and anger, but you can't really boil Punk down to that. Only a few years ago I was saying exactly the same thing as you "Punk is music who still think it's exciting and rebellious to play regressive aggressive dork music for people with no new ideas" etc... I also got fed up with the way Punk has been assimilated with almost every facet of modern culture and has become the status quo as far as things go.

But soon after I wrote a post on this a few moons ago, I came around to exactly what "Punk" could mean. Yes you've got the Sex Pistols and the Ramones and Sham 69 - all who have a few good tracks but I'd never want to listen to more than three songs in a row. But then it could be argued that Television, the Talking Heads, the Ruts, the Slits count as Punk, and they're all about as far and away from the mindless three-chord anarcho-dirge of their predecessors.

Really it depends on what is defined as Punk. It seems that some people will use it as a catch-all to describe everyone from As Mercenarias to Converge to LCD Soundsystem to Blink182. Others might say that true punk music is the Damned and Black Flag and pretty much on one else. I have Punk friends who claim that the Clash were never a Punk band, which I find remarkable but can sort of understand.

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 08:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

xposts

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 08:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

Ah OK.

I feel it as a bit of a weight, anyway.

xpost I am very dim.

Groke, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 08:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

do you hate punk?

most of it. but then again, some of it was great. (note past tense) stock genre answer no. 54, but still true.

I've said it many times, but most UK punk sounds really tired and dull now, and I'm too young to know how exciting it was at the time. but the best of the US punk bands - black flag, bad brains, dead kennedys, minor threat - still sound incredibly vital.

what was exciting about punk was its oppositional stance to tedious, complacent mainstream music and culture. it wasn't the first to do so, and certainly not the last. other genres expressed the spirit if not the musical style. rock'n'roll, free jazz, early disco, hip hop in the '80s, then rave, arguably grunge in the '90s, noise these days, and countless others.

but these things in time all become assimilated, become part of the mainstream culture and eventually become bland and predictable. punk was not revolutionary, but just one expression of the inherent urge to find your own culture, one that's more thrilling and fulfilling than that served up by the mass entertainment industry.

m the g, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 08:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

My oppositional stance to tedious, complacent oppositional stances has itself become tedious and complacent by now. :(

Groke, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:00 (7 years ago) Permalink

Apologies for the awful grammar in my last post.

How old are you again Nick? I was wondering the other day whether critics a bit younger than me just weren't bothered by punk's cultural presence any more. I think I was thinking of the Lex/Cis/Swygart generationlet though.

-- Groke, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:52 (2 minutes ago)


This is interesting too. I'm in my mid-late twenties as well and while I understand the cultural significance of the Sex Pistols, I don't think they strike me in the way as they might have struck their original audience. When I was growing up, I saw punks and skinheads just walking around town. A little older and Nirvana and Green Day were staples of mainstream radio. By now, I've gotta say that I find the whole Punk thing incredibly boring and would welcome some more challenging/interesting/less conformist music from the mainstream (I use the word "mainstream" meaning stuff people generally listen to and accept).

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:01 (7 years ago) Permalink

xpost:

then you have achieved nirvana, my son.

m the g, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:01 (7 years ago) Permalink

I would welcome some more challenging/interesting/less conformist music from the mainstream (I use the word "mainstream" meaning stuff people generally listen to and accept).

punk as fuck!

m the g, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:02 (7 years ago) Permalink

The problem with conformity and non-conformity is that it's incredibly easy not to conform to a "them" you construct according to yr own specifications, and way harder not to conform to an "us" that becomes your comfort zone.

Groke, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

Some punk does actually wrestle with this, it seems to me.

Certainly some punk-inspired writers do.

Groke, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

Well you know, when I listened to a lot of Black Metal, I found myself getting desensitised to the initial impact of it. Arguably, with that style of music you kind fo do need to break down a few sonic barriers to get to the meat of it, but after a while it becomes sheets of noise. With Punk though, it's pretty much everywhere these days - in adverts, in people's haircuts - it's unavoidable. But like Kate's post on a different thread about being inspired by 60s music because of its reactionary stance and it's sonic endeavours, as opposed to wanting to go back to the good old days of guitar/bass/drums, Punk is kind of the same isn't it?

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:08 (7 years ago) Permalink

Surely The Clash had too much reggae and Motown going on by London Calling for you, psychopath.

Well, the use of reggae and Motown (besides pop/pubrock influences) was exactly why "London Calling" was a great album, much better than any punk. But then it wasn't punk anymore.

Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:10 (7 years ago) Permalink

It is, if you take it as a philosophical movement rather than a musical / cultural one. What irritates me is how the word "punk" is used in modern discourse; I adore Talking Heads, but when people talk about punk, using it as a signifier for things beyond just music, they sure as hell don't mean what Remain In Light is as a cultural example of open-minded post-modern cultural emancipation 9 times out of 10.

Yes, the idea of "punk" as post-modern force revealing the redemptive obverse of music and of revolutionary culture is appealing to me; but most people do not understand it in that way, which is where my frustration rises from.

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

X-post there, obviously. Just assume I am ignoring Geir from now on.

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

yeh that makes sense. when you say the word "PUNK" people don't think of David Byrne in a big suit, they think of that guy out of Rancid with the mohawk and the tattoos.

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

When you say the word "PUNK" people don't think of David Byrne in a big suit, they think of that guy out of Rancid with the mohawk and the tattoos.

Those who were around during the original punk movement think of neither. But surely not Rancid.

Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

It's the fact that the canonised version of punk that has seeped into culture with a similar ubiquity to, say, The Beatles's music, is a very dull, unadventurous type of expression in purely formalist terms, however exciting it may once have been philosophically. That philosophical slant has been almost completely absorbed and refracted by capitalism, into revolution-as-product. I've been reading Debord lately and attended a conference on digital copyright in higher education which featured an alarming presentation on identity authentification (essentially national biometric ID cards that combine educational online rights, social network logins, bank details, etcetera will probably be snuck in via the backdoor of higher education), and was having a discussion with my girlfriend's brother (who's a student) about riots, demonstrations, etcetera, and I just cannot see something like France in 1968 (talking about workers' strikes rather than student riots, really) happening today, no matter how bad the economic or political situation is.

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yes. It's uncool to protest now for young people. Punk and anarchy are for the Dads.

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

DAMN! YOU'RE FUCKIN DUMB.

XPOST

chaki, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

Is that aimed at me?

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

It's aimed at society!

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:40 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yes. It's uncool to protest now for young people. Punk and anarchy are for the Dads.


Why is this? Is this because kids have been entirely disenfranchised from anything that's come before (by capitalism's instinct to never repeat in order to always generate more product and thus more markets [obv. capitalism allows, loves even, repetetion with variance on a physical level, because it is cheap manufacturing])? Have they seen their dads talk about revolution from their Mondeos once to often and thought "where the fuck did it get you?"

I need to read Stelfox's article now.

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:49 (7 years ago) Permalink

1. Is it arguable that today we have a more fragmented society...that makes targets less easy to attack/rebel against

2. rebellion itself is co-opted. and capitalism can benefit from visceral/cultural rebellion as it is not a structural threat to capitalism itself. if it can be bought, repackaged, sold as well, then so much the better. and diy aesthetic isnt opposed to capitalism, it is encouraged. you dont necessarily need to 'sell out', in fact its better if you dont! that way can be co-opted

3. apathy/cynicism. kind of realisation of above

4. many cultural 'battles' merely that, debate of such issues keeps political engine running without disrupting the business of capitalism

5. punks aesthetic never a rebellion against the liberal/capitalist project, but against traditionalist society. punk as vanguard entrepenurial capitalism aesthetic, attack on moralism that inhibits capitalism

frankie driscoll, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 10:19 (7 years ago) Permalink

That's what I'm looking for. Point 5 is terrific.

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 10:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

Maybe it's because the Punks won in the end. As above, Punk is now so integral to modern culture that in a strange way it has taken over. But no we don't live in an anarchist state or are even close to the ideologies of Punk. Instead now it's just fine for people to go round with piercings and tattoos and not be considered anti-social. It's a shame how a lot of vast poiltical movements can be accepted so wholeheartedly into a capitalist society.

To derail just slightly but to make a point, take women's lib. The idea was that women would have the right and choice to vote and work. They fought long and hard to achieve this. It made sense - why shouldn't women be allowed to work in the same jobs as men? But these days women DON'T have a choice to work, rather they HAVE to work because it has become the norm. And so now rather than a family surviving on a single income and a full-time parent at home bringing up the children, families sturggle to get by with two overworked parents. If anything this altruistic movement has rebounded by being so accepted.

Going back to pop culture. The hippie movement was run by future yuppies. The Punks of yesterday are now media moguls and fashion designers. They are talking heads on TV shows. They're everywhere, ubiquitous. But they're either not talking about Punk Politics any more (Henry Rollins, Ben Elton), become disgustingly dire and preachy (Bob Geldof, Bono), or they've become cartoon characters (Johnny Rotten).

Young people who protest are mocked by their peers. They come off as uncool flakes who are too busy hiding up trees and eating lentils to relax and have a good time. There is no status in looking at the world through idealistic eyes any more. Nobody has wild hippie orgies any more. Only speccy twots get in moshpits these days. It's just not cool any more. What is cool is driving a bimmer with your sunglasses pushed up on your head and drinking Moet with six nubile models squirming around in the back seat. Why get your hands dirty when you could be living for the moment?

Arguably it could be said that TV programmes like the Young Ones (written by punks but taking the piss out of them at the same time) could have been the nail in the coffin. They became their own worst enemies without knowing it. And this is being reflected in the original post. People under a certain age are sick of their predecessors harping on and on about a revolution that never happened. About how music could be made in a garage on a broken guitar and a drumkit with a hole through it. It's been done before.

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 10:39 (7 years ago) Permalink

Hooray!

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 10:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 10:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

are you intimating Lex/Cis/Swygart are representitive of their "generation"? cos i am about the same age and have met plenty of young folk still, to varying degrees, have some degree of veneration for the ideals of punk. though uk '77 seems to have been claimed by "indie" folks, whilst the hardcore kids don't actually really consider it punk!

acrobat, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

I have no idea how representative they are - they're the first three early 20something critics who sprang to mind (and who I admire).

Remember though that I'm talking about critics, who often aren't representative of anything much.

Groke, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

You are making 'punk' sound like there was a big meeting sometime in 1976 and everybodt agreed an agenda.

It was never as coherent as that and soon fragmented into thousands of pieces - often contradictory.

To castigate such a loose rag-bag of a genre for not overthrowing capitalism misses the point - indeed one of the more common memes was a rejection of the 60s counter-culture claims of peace and love were not to be trusted.

To move more specifically to the music. Yeah a lot of it sounds lame - but recognising that pop music could be a transatory thrill is probably the best legacy. Music in the mid 70s was often thought of as mature and destined to be something that would have a long life - a typical dismisal of bubblegum pop was that, unlike (say) Mike Oldfield, it wouldn't stand the test of time.

The 'test of time' wasn't a common claim for a lot of punk, its suprising that some of it (Buzzcocks, Wire, Adverts) actually still sounds so good to many people.

As for 'punk' in the last 10 years, well I don't like it much, and don't get the point of it so I find it hard to defend. Not sure the problem is that they have hijacked the definition of punk into something less interesting and much narrower or that its just that the bands are all rubbish.

Sandy Blair, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:16 (7 years ago) Permalink

Often?!

X-post.

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

They're not early 20somethings any more.
xxpost

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

They're all under 25, no?

(HI DERE Lex Cis and WBS)

Groke, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

they're no Rod, Jane & Freddy.

blueski, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:19 (7 years ago) Permalink

My ten favourite punk records of 1977:

1. Ornette Coleman - Dancing In Your Head
2. David Bowie - Low
3. Kraftwerk - Trans-Europe Express
4. Culture - Two Sevens Clash
5. Brian Eno - Before And After Science
6. Wire - Pink Flag
7. Isipingo - Family Affair
8. Anthony Braxton - The Montreux/Berlin Concerts
9. John Martyn - One World
10. Fleetwood Mac - Rumours

That's punk as I know and understand it.

Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

but you are suggesting young critics today and then giving those three as an example seems odd. i guess if you threw a cat into the nme office it would run into someone for wh0om an idea of punk, possibly nothing more than "oh yeh man revolution", would mean something. people are still being brought up being told band x is the new punk rock, maybe it means less. grime was the new punk rock wasn't it? i don't know. the thing that makes those three bad examples is that they come from the ilx world, they have been involved in the kid of discourse that reflects on the usefulness of ideas such as punk.

woops i have mis-interpereted what you meant. ah well. i think "punk" the "event" in some senses shrunk in significance a little but then indie writers particuarly seem imo to be in a mindset atm which is not paticuarly backward looking. the music maybe be retrogressive but it doesn't seem like the past itself is being venerated much.

acrobat, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

Only what sells is venerated.

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:39 (7 years ago) Permalink

no has noticed Maximo Park are the new Inspiral Carpets. they may never write a song as good as "She Comes in the Fall" thou.

acrobat, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

Well I don't know any NME writers so I didn't want to generalise about them. The impression I get though is in line with yr second para - punk is something obviously cool but not really important, it just happens to align a bit with what they enjoy about now.

There's a definite sense of conviction and belief in the NME's support of the stuff it likes, which there really really wasn't during previous punk 'revivals' and 77 lookbacks, much though we all enjoy S*M*A*S*H now I'm sure.

Groke, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

there's at once more and less at stake now.

acrobat, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

only what sells is venerated

velvet underground to thread

Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 12:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

The VU "sold" Lou Reed, Andy Warhol, Goodyear tyres, sunglasses, the romantic junkie boho artist loft myth, records for current bands, etcetera, just not their own records.

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:02 (7 years ago) Permalink

Thank you for your tedious, simplistic generalities about 3 decades of music made by countless diverse people all of the world, who as noted above, did not get together and have a meeting where they decided this is what "punk" will mean. Using the word "situationist" and mentioning Debord is not enough to make your theory coherent. As for your critique that it is all "boring" and "unsubtle," what do you like Scik?

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:16 (7 years ago) Permalink

Thank you for being kneejerkingly reactionary about it.

I'm not trying to start a discussion about punk, punkrock, hardcore, postpunk, etcetera, etcetera, as a loose genre of musics made around the world by disparite entities focused on a DIY aesthetic and loud guitars amongst other things, etcetera, etcetera, or whatever. I am talking about the notion of "punk" as adopted and expressed and used as a signifier by the mainstream (British, essentially, what with me being British) media.

On an aesthetic musical level I don't like what that usage of the term "punk" represents, whether it be The Sex Pistols or Green Day or Avril Lavigne. I do like, as mentioned, Talking Heads, Wire, Fugazi, blah blah. And I was also not positing a theory either; I was requesting theories, which we got.

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

We did this already:

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=55719

Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

YEAH!

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

And this year, too! I think I thought that was in the Sandbox.

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

Oh there's probably countless other threads doing exactly the same! This one is great though because it has been fun and stimulating TODAY!

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

I just feel like talking about that one bit on Stay Hungry when David Byrne screams "I FEEL LIKE SITTING DOOOOOWWWWWWWWWNNNN!" now. Dunno why, except that it's brilliant.

the next grozart, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

punk is gay too, though.

pipecock, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 02:45 (6 years ago) Permalink

Only if you're Pansy Division

Bo Jackson Overdrive, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 02:45 (6 years ago) Permalink

or any number of other flaming bands. though it is gay in the other bad way, too.

pipecock, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 02:47 (6 years ago) Permalink

I like Bad Brains, Minor Threat, Black Flag. Most punk is dull and drunk and thuddy. I prefer taut and sinewy and volatile. In college I used to get annoyed at the cultural hegemony of punk among non-frat white kids, but I went to school in lolJersey.

Hurting 2, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 03:19 (6 years ago) Permalink

Every once in a while I'll throw on ramones first album, dead boys, stooges, germs. It's all dumb fun, and mixes things up from the other stuff I listen to.

filthy dylan, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 04:33 (6 years ago) Permalink

I obviously missed this thread (I was out of the country) but I would have said probably a lot of the same stuff I said here:

are there still punks?

I think USA people have a really different experience of current punk subculture because our scene's origins and history are as much 1980 hardcore explosion as 1977 Britain. Also, especially in the peace punk world there have been a lot of feedback loops over the years between scenes. I like hurting's analogy and prefer stuff of a similar stripe, or else weird political peacecore like Crass or Poison Girls.

The house I co-own booked all-ages alcohol-free punk shows for the last six years. We just stopped (not really for any particular reason other than general burnout) although we would still do some shows under very special circumstances. It has been very interesting for me as an older dude (41) to deal with shows involving lots of kids (and their parents! and grandparents! and younger siblings!) and to watch them grow up and find their own voices. The punk experience is in large part what you make of it and it was cool to watch these kids check it out. Lots of frustrations (drunkenness, apathy, boring bands, idiocy, but notably almost no violence) but also rewards (successful benefits for people in prison, great random bands, turning people on to information/history/music).

There are many reasons why it sucks. It still has a lot to offer as history, as music, as philosophy and aesthetics. And perhaps more importantly, it is a potential gateway to a vast world of subculture, some of which might still have something of value to offer in the face of world-blighting commodification.

sleeve, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 04:50 (6 years ago) Permalink

it is a potential gateway to a vast world of subculture

robotsinlove, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 04:58 (6 years ago) Permalink

yeah, dada, situationism, that whole weird Autonomous Mutant Festival thing, you know.

sleeve, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 05:03 (6 years ago) Permalink

Another reason punk sucks is this horrendous new CD single by Mick Jones and Tony James' new band whose name I will not speak.

sleeve, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 05:06 (6 years ago) Permalink

http://www.amazon.co.uk/1978-Now-Subway-Sect/dp/B000PHVXTA

dan selzer, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 05:10 (6 years ago) Permalink

I was born in 1979

Well, there's your fuckin' problem right there, twerp.

Alex in NYC, Thursday, 15 November 2007 00:13 (6 years ago) Permalink

Yeah real punks are old and reverent for old music

filthy dylan, Thursday, 15 November 2007 00:59 (6 years ago) Permalink

I don't recall saying that.

Alex in NYC, Thursday, 15 November 2007 01:06 (6 years ago) Permalink

Has any musical movement had as many books written about it, aggrandising it as some kind of revolutionary force, as punk?

Try Hip Hop.

Alex in NYC, Thursday, 15 November 2007 01:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

the idea of not liking genres is sort of weird in itself.

M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 15 November 2007 01:08 (6 years ago) Permalink

"Punk."

Lol @ "hating punk."

roxymuzak, Thursday, 15 November 2007 02:08 (6 years ago) Permalink

a young kid starting a crappy punk band and calling it Minor Threat without having heard of the more famous Minor Threat is way more punk than anything on this thread will ever be.

latebloomer, Thursday, 15 November 2007 02:19 (6 years ago) Permalink

you know what really sucks though? getting ebola

latebloomer, Thursday, 15 November 2007 02:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

you know what sucks brilliantly? bobby joe ebola and the children mcnuggets

roxymuzak, Thursday, 15 November 2007 02:30 (6 years ago) Permalink

I like it.

DustinR, Friday, 16 November 2007 22:38 (6 years ago) Permalink

punk was once an answer to years of crap a way of saying no when we'd always said yep

scott seward, Friday, 16 November 2007 22:55 (6 years ago) Permalink

5 months pass...

Old punks are starting to become part of the political and media establishment in just the same way as the Baby Boomers have been, and I find their lording it over of popular culture really fucking annoying

ok by this logic the Smiths fans should just be creeping up on us.

oh shit

Thomas, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 11:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

Punk sucks because we WANT you to hate us! NYEEEEAAAAHHHHH!

kingkongvsgodzilla, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 11:47 (6 years ago) Permalink

(psyche. I don't care much for anything outside of the Ramones, but I was channeling someone whose voice needed to be heard)

kingkongvsgodzilla, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 11:48 (6 years ago) Permalink

This thread blew. He1ge50n was pretty alright.

RabiesAngentleman, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 11:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

people thing modern country is some sort of vast wasteland, except all the dudes actually discussing it on the rolling country thread or my friend nate who just made me a mix CD of a bunch of good modern (not alt) country doodz that's actually really great

I'm interested in this^^^
What was on it? Apart from one or two select tracks by Brad Paisley and the Dixie Chicks I've had a rough time breaking away from all the old outlaw stuff and into what's currently going on. Where should I look? (that is if you come back around this thread's way, M@tt)

RabiesAngentleman, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 11:54 (6 years ago) Permalink

I am really, really, really bored by most punk rock these days.
I was way into punk in high school, but now so much of it sounds the same, the politics are bland and unconvincing, and the whole thing seems like a lame pose. Also, it's too fast most of the time. And recorded poorly.

ian, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 14:00 (6 years ago) Permalink

Most punk is dull and drunk and thuddy. I prefer taut and sinewy and volatile.

There's so much great punk stuff that fits both these bills, new and old. And both can be done badly or, er.... radly. Overall, the points about dismissing shit according to genre pretty much sum things up.

gnarly sceptre, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 14:11 (6 years ago) Permalink

xpost Rabies/Matt..... I've also been curious about which new country stuff is great. I live in the UK, but it seems that many people who consider themselves country fans need to add a disclaimer about '....but none of this slick new stuff etc.'. It seems like one of the most (presumably unfairly) maligned musics out there. Which typically means there's load of great stuff going unnoticed!

gnarly sceptre, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 14:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

wrt new country stuff...most of my experience w/it is from a good friend of mine that only listens to country and he really keeps track of stuff, he doesn't really like "alt country" at all, so it's mostly mid to low level new country dudes from the south....here's the tracklist of a mix he made for me that i really enjoyed, might give you some stuff to seek out (obv a few you've probably heard of but most probably not)

Longfall - Lost Trailers
Out of Here Tonight Great Divide
Jar of Clay - Pinmonkey
Another Six Pack Under - Rick Trevino
Georgia Hard - Robbie Fulks
Hair of the Dog - Shooter Jennings
10 Years Pass - Sunny Sweeney
18 Wheels - Fred Eaglesmith
Empty Seat Behind Me - Chris Wall & Reckless Kelly
30 Years Crazy - Cisco & the Reasons Why
Houston - Doug Moreland
Showman's Life - Buddy Miller
Devil Behind the Wheel - Chris Knight
Really Never Loved Her Anyway - Trent Summar
I Hung My Head - Blue Highway
Vegas - Two Tons of Steel
Calling All Cars - Mike McClure
Different Today - Hacienda Brothers
State Line - Cooder Graw
Whiskey Wings - Dean Miller
Low Down - Hank Williams III

M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 16:00 (6 years ago) Permalink

30 Years Crazy - Cisco & the Reasons Why

this song is so fucking great i love it.

M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 16:00 (6 years ago) Permalink

And recorded poorly.

that's pretty harsh coming from a siltbreeze fan!

Edward III, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 16:03 (6 years ago) Permalink

I stumbled across some thrashy punk record label from arizona on myspace recently and friended them. it's fun, like finding a stegosaurus in your rose bush.

Edward III, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 16:08 (6 years ago) Permalink

Haha, I was reading the titles/artits backwards and I thought there was a Jars Of Clay song on there. M@tt, thanks, this should be awesome. I'm not really into alt-country either, so possibly his tastes and mine are somewhat aligned.

I am really, really, really bored by most punk rock these days.
I was way into punk in high school, but now so much of it sounds the same, the politics are bland and unconvincing, and the whole thing seems like a lame pose. Also, it's too fast most of the time. And recorded poorly.

-- ian, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 14:00 (2 hours ago) Link

I can't stomach most of the political soapboxing in punk so I avoid that stuff. There's a ton where that's completely non-existent so it's not an issue. I guess if you don't care for the fidelity that can be a problem, it's pretty much an intentional aesthetic a lot of the time... unless you're Turbo Negro (these days) or the Black Halos or something. And if you can distance yourself, which is pretty impossible sometimes, the lame pose is part of the appeal, part of the charm.

I went through a similar trial, I got into punk initially in high school (lol punk-o-rama), and like a lot of people I became disillusioned. You know, the big mistake of trying to take 19-year-old Ian MacKaye seriously, and, for me, getting out of my town of 4,000 and meeting "punks" did not help. It really took some years, and it took discovering some new bands (and bands that were new to me) to get back into it. Basically it was finding Killed By Death comps and termbo, and some of the weirder-flavored bands that sparked it again for me.

RabiesAngentleman, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 16:43 (6 years ago) Permalink

that should read, "titles/artists"

RabiesAngentleman, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 16:44 (6 years ago) Permalink

reason numba' one-oh-one: sid vicous's mum

t**t, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 17:00 (6 years ago) Permalink

punk's DIY philosophy = classic
punk rock = meh (for the most part)
punks = super duper dud

rockapads, Tuesday, 6 May 2008 17:29 (6 years ago) Permalink

3 years pass...

Is rave now becoming part of the political and media establishment?

Scary Move 4 (dog latin), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 12:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

it? It is.

how's life, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

thanks punk rock you did a good job and often still do

l0u1s j0rdan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

good posts in this thread, matt :)

flopson, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 17:48 (2 years ago) Permalink


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