We really don't care about theatre do we?

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There are two productions in NY right now that i want to see, The Blacks from the Harlem Theater Company and Fucking A on Broadway, you know the reworking of

edmonton theater is really vivid and i try to see one a month, but it is prohibtivley expensive.

anthony easton (anthony), Sunday, 6 April 2003 17:22 (12 years ago) Permalink

(Yeah, Nabisco, what happened to Nory? I liked her. Can you lure her back, please?)

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 6 April 2003 17:43 (12 years ago) Permalink

(Seconded.)

Cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 6 April 2003 19:04 (12 years ago) Permalink

Nory is megafanfab! And a grand person. :-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 6 April 2003 19:38 (12 years ago) Permalink

The whole "realism" thing is still being worked out. I think film overtook theater in this dept sometime around the New Wave and theater's still going through spasms trying to deal with it. I don't really go that much. We don't talk about theater here because we'd it's not mass-distributed so we don't have common events or artifacts to anchor a discussion. We'd all have to be like total theater-hounds to even talk abstractly about stuff, and one thing theater's not served by is abstraction.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 6 April 2003 19:55 (12 years ago) Permalink

The whole "what eyes are seeing this" thing is SO much smaller w/theater, its circulation is so curt-tailed. So it seems less "important", in a "must have opinion on this" kind of way?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 6 April 2003 20:29 (12 years ago) Permalink

(Nory's currently doing the jobs of about two and a half people, so she doesn't really have the time.)

nabisco (nabisco), Sunday, 6 April 2003 20:58 (12 years ago) Permalink

We don't talk about theater here because we'd it's not mass-distributed

Quite so. This is the strength and the weakness of theater.

Skottie, Sunday, 6 April 2003 21:05 (12 years ago) Permalink

Can you get her fired from one of them, Nabisco?

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 6 April 2003 21:11 (12 years ago) Permalink

Hey, that's mean! But if it would give her a little more time with no salary decrease...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 6 April 2003 23:22 (12 years ago) Permalink

If someone could explain to me why theatre/er still has a point, I might get interested in it. I don't think it's the same as the paintings/drawings/etchings/whatever vs. Photos thing at all (because you can DO so much more with the former set than the latter whereas it seems like you can do less with plays than with film but I still feel really small-minded saying that but i think it's only because High Culture is still into plays and we've still got that thing where we think that They Know What They're Talking About despite the fact that every play review I read reads like it's completely made up of really weak excuses for a pathetic, unentertaining experience).

Dan I., Sunday, 6 April 2003 23:28 (12 years ago) Permalink

In NYC, Richard Foreman and the Wooster Group. They (forgive me) rock. And they've both been essentially doing the same thing for decades. But not only does that thing (those things) give unending returns (I think), it also seems as though nobody else has managed to do anything weirder or more interesting or dizzying or disorienting. Your standard theater just guarantees me ninety minutes of sound sleep. But things are different in Lodon, I think. Yes?

Methuselah (Methuselah), Sunday, 6 April 2003 23:29 (12 years ago) Permalink

Er, that would be "London."

Methuselah (Methuselah), Sunday, 6 April 2003 23:30 (12 years ago) Permalink

I just saw the Wooster Group's "Brace Up!," their adaptation of Chekhov's "Three Sisters," and it was absolutely fantastic. Only running for another week--GO SEE IT!

Douglas (Douglas), Monday, 7 April 2003 00:44 (12 years ago) Permalink

The only good theater I've ever seen has been plays directed by Tadashi Suzuki. I'm sure there's more stuff out there just as good, but I haven't seen any yet.

A Nairn (moretap), Monday, 7 April 2003 00:55 (12 years ago) Permalink

" it seems like you can do less with plays than with film"

What about the differences between watching a concert video or being at a concert. The is more excitment and energy live, it is happening 'now', and there is no setbacks of use of media when seeing it live.

I think potentially theater could be one of the most amazing artforms, but I've never seen anyone do much good with it.

A Nairn (moretap), Monday, 7 April 2003 00:59 (12 years ago) Permalink

Somebody needs to invent mass-distributable theater so we can talk about it!

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 7 April 2003 05:17 (12 years ago) Permalink

i work at the Guthrie Theater here in Minneapolice (ush-urr-ing), but i don't see much theatre outside the place.
just the same play over and over for a month---which is fine when i like the play---and i'm learning a lot about this mysterious art...but:
Six Degrees of Separation was shrill and the jokes were all flat. it WAS kind of amusing to watch our stodgy patrons reel back in shock and horror when the naked hustler showed up, and see them fidgeting nervously during the long silent boy-boy kissing scene, but christ i'm glad its not 1991 or whenever this was considered 'edgy' and deep.

tonight was closing night thoughYAY.
and next up is -Chekhovs's Three Sisters-. i am very excited.

and Top Girls at the Guthrie Lab- no idea.

anyway the Guthrie is nice and usually lush and well-produced an stuff, and i get starry thinking about upcoming Shakespeare but it is warping my young mind by relentlessly beating on about the CLASSICS. etc. i really need to find myself a wealthy sugar-momma to take out to other theaters.

ok i got my tightpants on- i'm off to lurk 'mysteriously' outside high-priced Edina hairsalons.

gabriel (gabe), Monday, 7 April 2003 08:37 (12 years ago) Permalink

We recently TRIED very hard to sit through the first part of "A La Recherche du temps perdu.' Sadly the heating was on FOOL BLAST, the seats were too 'ard to sit comfortably watching the show and... the show itself was a-trocious. Trying not falling asleep when the main character puts his head between curtains and his face is screened on those curtains while he is reading off an auto-cue. On top of that the book/play itself is loooooooooooooong.

nathalie (nathalie), Monday, 7 April 2003 12:22 (12 years ago) Permalink

Aha, you've been there too. Marcel Proust on Tour.

Erik, Monday, 7 April 2003 12:30 (12 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...
'theater-hounds': Hand is such a card.

the pinefox, Thursday, 24 April 2003 23:18 (12 years ago) Permalink

I haven't been to the theatre in ages, mainly because the companies and writers I've been following have done dick all lately.

good theatre is great. people who think theatre is obsolete know nothing.

DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 25 April 2003 11:01 (12 years ago) Permalink

however, theatre only really works in venues seating less than a few hundred people.

DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 25 April 2003 11:02 (12 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...
I haven't been to the theatre in ages mainly because the sort of theatre i like no longer comes to Glasgow. Ten years or so ago Mainly because of the Tramway) it was possible to come to Glasgow to see The Wooster group perfmoring almost their entire ouvre (the only place in Europe you could see it) of which i have seen Brace Up!, LSD (just the highlights) and House/Lights. Their new one "Poor Theatre" is just about to kick of in New York - i'd love to see it and am extremely jealous of you new yorkers.

In addition Lepage/ Ex Machina were frequent visitors to Glasgow and i think i have seen most oof his plays here. Theatre de Complicite don't come here anymore either. I miss stuff like this.

jed_ (jed), Sunday, 24 October 2004 17:56 (10 years ago) Permalink

what about DANCE?

RJG (RJG), Sunday, 24 October 2004 17:59 (10 years ago) Permalink

I meant to go to the tramway, this weekend, but forgot.

RJG (RJG), Sunday, 24 October 2004 17:59 (10 years ago) Permalink

are you dancing tonight?

jed_ (jed), Sunday, 24 October 2004 18:01 (10 years ago) Permalink

I would like to but I have stupid things, to be up for.

RJG (RJG), Sunday, 24 October 2004 18:05 (10 years ago) Permalink

Dan sums up my own feelings well upthread. Theatre is irrelvant and invariably dull. Upper class and upper middle class goons go to it to feel special and sophisticated. I've met these people and they are assholess so why should I want to be in their company anyway?

Mad.Mike, Sunday, 24 October 2004 18:37 (10 years ago) Permalink

well you're just in a theatre so you're not really in their company. The theatre i love most is not likt that at all in any case.

jed_ (jed), Sunday, 24 October 2004 18:40 (10 years ago) Permalink

The 'theater' is so far from being dead that it has become the dominant art form.

Of course, this is only true if you disregard the technical differences between onstage performance, film and television. As far as I am concerned the differences really are minor technicalities.

In all three media you have scripted dialogue telling a story with actors, costumes, scenery, lighting, incidental music, and so on.

The fact that a camera lens imposes a control over the audience's point-of-view that cannot be utilized in stage performances does not make much difference in my view. Stage direction tries to filter the audience's attention, too, except it uses lighting effects, blocking of actor's movements, and other technical means that are somewhat less effective than a camera. The goal is quite similar.

Theater people are just blinded by their nostalgic love of certain techniques that must be modified or discarded in a filmed setting as opposed to a stage setting. They identify these technicalities with 'theater', abhor the new technicalities of movies and tv, and overlook the overwhelming similarities between all the various forms of the modern theater.

Aimless (Aimless), Sunday, 24 October 2004 18:49 (10 years ago) Permalink

i completely disagree, movies and theatre are MILES apart (pictures telling stories vs. actors telling stories), or at least they are when they're good

s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 24 October 2004 18:52 (10 years ago) Permalink

tv and theatre, however, are definitely a bit closer.

s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 24 October 2004 18:52 (10 years ago) Permalink

The fact that a camera lens imposes a control over the audience's point-of-view that cannot be utilized in stage performances does not make much difference in my view. Stage direction tries to filter the audience's attention, too, except it uses lighting effects, blocking of actor's movements, and other technical means that are somewhat less effective than a camera. The goal is quite similar.

you're making like montage is just another nifty gadget in the film director's toolbox; really it is ESSENTIAL to film, much more so than lighting and blocking is to theatre

s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 24 October 2004 18:54 (10 years ago) Permalink

i don't theater and film need be, um, dichotomized so aggressively. they can fruitfully feed off each other. by its very nature film and theater pose different artistic challenges. many qualities grouped under the epithet "theatrical" don't really seem very essentially theatrical to me--just a legacy of the conventional wisdom that film only became film after it tossed off its debt to the theater (and "griffith invented cinema" etc.).

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 24 October 2004 18:57 (10 years ago) Permalink

well maybe i'm being reactionary. but i do think tv and theatre have a lot more in common than movies & theatre.

s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 24 October 2004 18:58 (10 years ago) Permalink

bla bla proscenium arch bla bla.

s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 24 October 2004 18:58 (10 years ago) Permalink

as an art form practiced in the real world, though, theater really has become marginalized.... any by film, i think, more than anything else. (film basically economically/otherwise supplanted entire theatrical traditions in a period of 10-20 years.) there's an argument that film is more appropriate for certain modes of drama--melodrama for instance. because its indexical quality makes it a better vehicle for spectacle and "illusion"--i think this is by and large true.

xpost

the spatial quality of film and theater are to a large extent opposed.... the camera's "field of vision" is like an upside-down triangle, whereas a conventional stage is a bit the opposite (why it's rare for a theater director to stage a signification action in the back of the stage--harder to ensure that the audience's attention is directed to it). so they pose very different staging problems. i don't quite buy aimless's argument that this means they are different only in the method by which an audience's attention is directed. i think there is a place for ontological speculation....

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 24 October 2004 19:03 (10 years ago) Permalink

um, i mean, ROFFLE etc.

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 24 October 2004 19:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

i think with staging it's a completely completely different ballgame, unless we're talking rotating stages or something here

s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 24 October 2004 19:06 (10 years ago) Permalink

anyway i think it's obvious that there are possibilities to filmic narration that simply aren't available in the theater--and this has implications for what films can do, how they can engage an audience. what isn't often brought up is what possibilities are inherent in theater and unavailable in film, aside from the "immediacy" thing--and i have to admit i haven't considered that and other possible advantages of theater too much, simply because theater has never had much place in my life. i have really enjoyed some plays, though, of course.

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 24 October 2004 19:06 (10 years ago) Permalink

I LOVE CATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

phil-two (phil-two), Sunday, 24 October 2004 19:06 (10 years ago) Permalink

as well theatre is like 90% WHAT THE PEOPLE DO, whereas with film this is not neccessarily so

s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 24 October 2004 19:07 (10 years ago) Permalink

xpost

slocki, it seems to me a hell of a lot of great films were made in the 1930s, and many of them were only a few baby steps away from being filmed stage productions with over-the-shoulder reaction shots and the occassional montage (thank you Sergei) to spice them up.

If montage is as ESSENTIAL as you say it is, then these films would have failed at birth, rather than becoming successful films - which, not coincidentally are still watched, enjoyed and studied today. Montage is just another nifty tool in a director's toolbox. It just happens to be such a useful tool that it gets used a lot.

Aimless (Aimless), Sunday, 24 October 2004 19:07 (10 years ago) Permalink

i think there is a nebulous actor-audience interaction in theatre that is cool and unique (xp)

s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 24 October 2004 19:07 (10 years ago) Permalink

ok aimless i agree that there quite often CAN be a significant overlap, but that it is not a neccessary one

s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 24 October 2004 19:08 (10 years ago) Permalink

and aimless even these "great 30s films" had cuts, closeups etc, they weren't just one-shot setups

s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 24 October 2004 19:09 (10 years ago) Permalink

I used to act - for years - I really enjoyed acting on stage. But the people were such pretentious, posho tossers that I'd personally say that if all theatre grants were destroyed and the whole industry put in the rubbish bin it would not be a great loss to humanity.

Mad.Mike, Sunday, 24 October 2004 19:10 (10 years ago) Permalink

a few baby steps away from being filmed stage productions with over-the-shoulder reaction shots and the occassional montage (thank you Sergei) to spice them up.

30s films are usually edited pretty briskly, so it's not simply a matter of using up a reel of film shooting an integral theatrical performance. "montage" doesn't mean soviet montage necessarily--just, y'know, editing bits of film together. all hollywood films are edited together from master shots, medium shots (plan american etc.), and occasionally inserts/close ups at a rate of i dunno one shot every 10-12 seconds. (nowadays it's more like every 5 seconds but we're talking about the 1930s)

i think this is pretty important: "filmed theater" isn't really as simple as that, the fact of it being filmed and edited together in the conventional way transforms the way the story is being told. perhaps the "meaning" is ultimately the same, but i'm not sure that's true or if it even matters so much.

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 24 October 2004 19:11 (10 years ago) Permalink

that was a big ol' xpost

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 24 October 2004 19:11 (10 years ago) Permalink

yes it was pretty immense

conrad, Thursday, 23 October 2014 10:54 (7 months ago) Permalink

Thanks for the heads-up, not-carers – booked for Antigone in London. Never seen an Anne Carson translation performed.

(Missed View from the Bridge – I heard some noise, but I've got an Arthur Miller block & didn't realise that it was a great production.)

Also booked for the new Tom Stoppard at the National in May. The description makes it sound like some rotten Radio 4 shit – "Hilary, a young psychology researcher at a brain-science institute, is nursing a private sorrow and a troubling question at work, where psychology and biology meet. If there is nothing but matter, what is consciousness?" – but I'll probably enjoy it.

woof, Thursday, 23 October 2014 11:04 (7 months ago) Permalink

will let you know.

i know it's far ahead, expensive and not fringe but i'd be booking to see Van Hove's Antigone with J Binoche if i were you.

http://www.barbican.org.uk/theatre/event-detail.asp?ID=16573

― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Wednesday, 22 October 2014 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

So want to but really don't know what I'm up to in March.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 23 October 2014 15:23 (7 months ago) Permalink

same old shit is what i'll be up to.

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Thursday, 23 October 2014 23:31 (7 months ago) Permalink

I am usually doing the same old shit, but things/life might get in the way just then.

But I do know what I'll be doing in Nov - watching "The Cherry Orchard" at the young vic, is what.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 24 October 2014 10:23 (7 months ago) Permalink

going to cheery orchard next week i understand it's one of his more upbeat plays

conrad, Friday, 24 October 2014 10:36 (7 months ago) Permalink

saw that a long while ago so it's checked off

this horrible, rotten slog to rigor mortis (Dr Morbius), Friday, 24 October 2014 11:34 (7 months ago) Permalink

haha

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Friday, 24 October 2014 15:16 (7 months ago) Permalink

Suzan-Lori Parks' Father Comes Home from the Wars -- or rather, the first third of it -- just opened at the Public Theatre to raves, I managed to get a ticket this morning. Saw Topdog/Underdog when it ran, nothing of hers since.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/29/theater/father-comes-home-from-the-wars-by-suzan-lori-parks-at-the-public-theater.html

http://www.vulture.com/2014/10/theater-review-father-comes-home-from-the-wars.html

this horrible, rotten slog to rigor mortis (Dr Morbius), Friday, 31 October 2014 14:26 (6 months ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

i guess i should jump on An Octoroon already

http://www.tfana.org/season-2015/soho-reps-octoroon/overview

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Friday, 27 February 2015 15:19 (3 months ago) Permalink

Yes. Like how the blurb there starts off with press quotes and then goes to: Meta-melodrama with Forbidden Love! Humor! Feelings! Live Music! Wigs! Sensation Scenes! Slave Auctions! Exploding Steamboats! Photography! And More!

curmudgeon, Friday, 27 February 2015 15:33 (3 months ago) Permalink

Down here in DC am catching up on August Wilson plays, thankfully they keep getting revived. Gonna see his 80s era one King Hedley II

curmudgeon, Friday, 27 February 2015 15:34 (3 months ago) Permalink

x-post --yes I noticed "slave auctions" just thrown in there in the middle

curmudgeon, Friday, 27 February 2015 15:36 (3 months ago) Permalink

k, bought side balcony for next Tues -- there goes theatre budget for first half of year (cept maybe Ghosts at BAM). The NYT Mag profile of the playwright worried me a little, but it won the Obie last year, and Brantley says it's better now.

i love how Hamilton was hailed as the greatest thing 2 weeks ago, and now the creator says "we have to fix it" for Broadway.

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Friday, 27 February 2015 16:02 (3 months ago) Permalink

Theatre is so expensive generally.

Looks like just a slight delay though for Miranda's Hamilton, but enough to push it until the following year's Tony eligibility

curmudgeon, Friday, 27 February 2015 16:09 (3 months ago) Permalink

at least at BAM you can get in for $35.

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Friday, 27 February 2015 16:10 (3 months ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

Have you ever seen Memphis the musical? Have wanted to see that and In the Heights for years, but never have (musicals with music I like)

A touring version of Memphis is gonna be in DC for 2 nights at the Warner

From the underground dance clubs of 1950s Memphis, Tennessee, comes a hot new Broadway musical that bursts off the stage with explosive dancing, irresistible songs and a thrilling tale of fame and forbidden love. Inspired by actual events, MEMPHIS is about a radio DJ who wants to change the world and a club singer who is ready for her big break. Come along on their incredible journey to the ends of the airwaves -- filled with laughter, soaring emotion and roof-raising rock 'n' roll. Winner of four 2010 Tony Awards® including Best Musical,

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 25 March 2015 18:02 (2 months ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

so the Pulitzer-winning The Flick is back, off-Broadway. Did anyone see it?

the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 13 May 2015 18:57 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Nope. Curious about it. I see some folks thought it was too long

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 13 May 2015 22:00 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Haven't seen/read it either or any of Annie Baker's plays. Same way with Will Eno, it's either very much my kind of thing or it's wearing the cloak of being my kind of thing (embracing and then transcending stillness, tedium, static action).

... (Eazy), Friday, 15 May 2015 01:06 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

it's a masterpiece & i am mad at you if you don't go, morbs

tender is the late-night daypart (schlump), Friday, 15 May 2015 01:44 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Running February-May 2016 at Steppenwolf, with a terrific director directing - Dexter Bullard, who did Bug and Mistakes Were Made and others.

http://www.steppenwolf.org/Plays-Events/productions/index.aspx?id=641

... (Eazy), Friday, 15 May 2015 01:46 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

ok, going to Sunday matinee next week

(last day you can get in for $45)

the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 17 May 2015 15:56 (1 week ago) Permalink

Has anyone seen The Trial as a play? What was it like?

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 19 May 2015 21:16 (1 week ago) Permalink

Saw a very Robert Wilson-y version long ago. Here are some design photos:

http://www.arnonedesigns.com/portfolio/k-impressions-of-kafkas-the-trial/

... (Eazy), Tuesday, 19 May 2015 22:25 (1 week ago) Permalink

ok, going to Sunday matinee next week

(last day you can get in for $45)

― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Sunday, May 17, 2015 12:56 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

missed this but super pleased, please report back. new play at signature opening in a couple months, also.

tender is the late-night daypart (schlump), Tuesday, 19 May 2015 23:02 (1 week ago) Permalink

Did anyone stateside see Let The Right One In in NYC? I was the assistant designer in that and did a fair fuck of work on it but I guess I didn't get any credit?

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Tuesday, 19 May 2015 23:25 (1 week ago) Permalink

I mean I got paid yeah.

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Tuesday, 19 May 2015 23:26 (1 week ago) Permalink

Has anyone seen The Trial as a play? What was it like?

going in july /thanksfornothing

ledge, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 12:48 (1 week ago) Permalink

saw this one http://www.retz.co.uk/ in hackney a couple of years ago it was kind of fun but v loose and ~conceptual~ e.g. promenade/immersive/etc.

going to young vic one in june

conrad, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 13:08 (1 week ago) Permalink

Another cheerful evening of Germanic culture! xp

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 13:09 (1 week ago) Permalink

seldom seen a bad play at the young vic

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 20 May 2015 13:21 (1 week ago) Permalink

we have Juliette Binoche coming up at BAM in Antigone

surm, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 15:17 (1 week ago) Permalink

(directed by Ivo van Hove)

surm, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 15:17 (1 week ago) Permalink

it was ok

conrad, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 15:21 (1 week ago) Permalink

thought Binoche was terrible tbh. the rest of the cast mostly good & great translation.

woof, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 15:44 (1 week ago) Permalink

really. ugh. hate when that happens.

surm, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 16:14 (1 week ago) Permalink

The Flick is well acted, funny, cleverly structured; I liked it. Really though, Pulitzer? What was in the pool that year? (Don't feel compelled to research.)

the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 26 May 2015 18:36 (4 days ago) Permalink

morbs u go out a lot, i feel like

surm, Wednesday, 27 May 2015 02:12 (3 days ago) Permalink

yep! in NYC i feel like staying home alone is... why? unless someone else is there or baseball is on.

the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 27 May 2015 02:27 (3 days ago) Permalink

THANK YOU

surm, Wednesday, 27 May 2015 02:28 (3 days ago) Permalink


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