Chameleons : Classic or Dud

Beyond that, though, I don't think I would change a thing about them. Seeing the original line-up back together again late last year was an honor and a privilege -- one of the best shows I've ever seen. I have every last dug-out-of-the-archive recording, just about all the various solo and side projects, and await the new album with bated breath. Soon, soon...

Anyway, I'm still not convinced by them. They're somewhat of a guilty pleasure - occasionally they'll hit on a nice guitar figure and their songs have a po-faced drive to them which can be really compelling (cf: "Swamp Thing", "Tears"). But the lyrics never move me - this wouldn't be a problem, but the amount of chest-beating effort that seems to go into putting them across irritates me given that so little is actually being communicated.

I think the Triffids did the same thing a great deal better when they had a mind to.

Anyway, the lyrics are the least of this band. We're talking TOONS with TWO GUITARS, and lots of subtle *studio trickery*. Yeah! The fact that they perhaps anticipated a lot of awful bands (Coldplay, etc.) can be balanced by the fact that they also anticipated a number of good ones (House Of Love, Ride, Kitchens Of Distinction, Puressence, "Bends"-era Radiohead).

Tom you have a point about The Triffids; I think _Born Sandy Devotional_ especially is *better* at doing what The Chameleons were sort of doing, but I still like The Chameleons more as a band.

The Chameleons... based on 1 or 2 songs I last heard 13 or 14 years ago, a big dud. That kind of indie stadium-rock smells vaguely like a U2 without songs or charisma for people who think they're too cool for U2. I'm being unfair, sure, but most of their fans seem to be a)anglophiles or b)goths - two strikes against them right there. Unless you're Joy Division, those odds are practically insurmountable.

The production is often dodgy, especially the second album. It's difficult to make something with so many layers of flange and echo sound crisp and driving. It often sounds like there are some great ideas trying to get out of the soup. I have all the albums on vinyl, so I'd be interested in hearing whether CD sound has improved the sound or not. I'd exempt 'Strange Times' from this criticism - it sounds just fine.

Burgess's lyrics aren't great - too much 'Pleasure and Pain' / 'Heaven and Hell' cliches for me, but it's not a big deal as I don't really care unless lyrics are REALLY bad.

I probably play Strange Times more than any other Chameleons album, although I have a soft spot for 'The Fan and the Bellows'. Some of the pre-first album tracks really motor (better drummer).

I've spent a lot of time picking holes here, but I think the Chameleons were an admirable band who could've achieved a lot more. It will be interesting to hear them in 2001.

Anybody remember the Reegs?

I've heard the U2 conundrum before -- the fact that I think the Chameleons do right what U2 ended up doing wrong (insanely, horribly wrong, though I'll allow for some of the singles and B-sides -- a minor percentage out of an ever more annoying career) perhaps betrays my hand. ;-) That some people think they're too 'cool' for U2 may be the case (and I'm sure is), but I couldn't give a fuck about cool. I give a fuck about the music, and on that standard, Chameleons yay, U2 boo.

I should also say that I'm a total sucker for the production on _What Does Everything Mean?_. Thick, tangled, shimmering -- can't say no.

A band that truly deserved more success - if they had been a little bit more fashionable it might have happened for them. In around 1982/3 I think they were just a killer song away from a big hit. Perhaps the right support slot would have done it? Perhaps if they'd have been from Dublin or Manchester instead of Wimbledon? Perhaps with the right haircut....? Aw, who cares? They were great anyway.

I met Adrian a few times before he died - he was using the same rehearsal rooms with his band - and he was a genuinely nice guy, happy to talk about his days in The Sound. He was looking forward to all the albums coming out on CD.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000006XJ2.01._PE_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

the album cover sucks, but they're classic ... then again, i just discovered them!

The most recent album, Why Call It Anything -- given a miserably botched release in the States, it was downright painful to see how practically nobody at the recent shows last year here knew about it -- shows that they still have got it, but in a generally more quieter and contemplative way than before (they can and do still rip out the older stuff fantastically, though). There were some rumblings earlier this year that the band had fallen out again, but those seem to have been quelled for now? Hopefully so -- the solo show by Mark back in June was excellent as always, but it's all about all four of them playing together. Even one missing member in the lineup is really noticeable.

Which was rather grim :-/

Just had a quick peek at the forum and, noticably, there are threads about different solo things... but no 'Chameleons' news.

:-(

I think I've listened to those first three albums so damn much that if they ever lose the masters, they could probably press up fresh copies just using coronal sections of my brain.

One more thing on this topic: I'd like to defend Reg's cover art for their albums. I've always been impressed by how much detail and care and hard work he puts into the sleeves. Unlike today's computer graphics where you can just slap something together in no time.

I was thinking about starting a thread along the lines of "Albums that are great but you're bored sick of the singles/most popular tracks" (this occured to me while listening to "Disintegration" recently). But I couldn't think of any other good examples at the time.

I agree with you Ned. It always kind of pissed me off that people who were so completely ga-ga about The Edge's too-much-delay swampy guitar sound never seemed to notice that Reg was doing it better and without being part of a load of pompous asses.

Until now....

Sounds better than I remember...

Anything know this album? 'Intrigue in Tangiers" sounds good. Some of it sounds like Breakfast Club music (the movie, not the band), I'm sorry to say. Very '80s and synthy.

Maybe The Church's mid-eighties synth work is roughly comparable?

I was delighted to read they'd covered "Moonage Daydream" - I do believe that's my favorite Bowie song and I'm not a huge Bowie fan. I'll have to check that album out for sure.

The production on What Does Anything Mean...I'm glad someone mentioned that. I can see how that would totally sound wrong to someone's ears who hadn't heard it at the time (much the way I feel about Loop's Heaven's End in retrospect). The thickness sounded really great at the time, it just worked. Although I do think Strange Times would be the one to get if you hadn't any Chameleons at all, What Does Anything Mean has always seemed like a more consistently great album. Also considering the production of it, I find it interesting in retrospect that there was no such thing as shoegazing yet, no frame of reference!

But seriously, I get so tired of people saying Chameleons are 'goth' (much the way they naively say that of The Church, a band I'm sorry to say have meant a lot more to me over the years than Chameleons) and lazy U2 comparisons. I remember asking Mark Gardner, lead singer of Ride, once if he liked Chameleons, and he mentioned something about "eh...college rock" or some such dismissive thing. I think a lot of people just don't understand the Chameleons, because they really can't be easily compared to anyone else. The Chameleons are just their own thing, in my opinion. I don't mean to say they were radical pioneers, necessarily, but they just had a style that was doomed not to ever fit comfortably inside any of the convenient categories of fashion.

I agree there seems to be a crossover with Church fans as well, Ned. I was thinking about this not too long ago, about how there's just a certain audience that have certain bands in common like that. Come to think of it, The Church is also another band difficult for a lot of people to understand or put in categories, while not saying they were radical pioneers, either.

HE'S one to talk.

Another band that occurs to me to fall in the category of "doomed outsiders of fashion": Adorable. Do you like them Ned? Oh, I know, I know...do a search. Frankly, I can't be bothered at the moment, don't mind me, I've obviously had a few drinks and plan on departing here for another website soon, anyway...

Incidentially I went to a huge goth night in leeds a couple of years ago where they played Swamp Thing and it rammed the dancefloor!

I also remember an art project I had in high school where I had to redesign an album cover - I chose Scrpit of the Bridge. I used the Union Jack and thought it was pretty cool, but it certainly wasn't.

"If this is the stuff dreams are made of
No wonder I feel like I'm floating on air..."

Classic, classic, classic.

The guitar riff on the track you quoted is amazing and timeless (and just as influential today as any JD riff).

(Saw them a few years ago at Kintting Factory- they still sound great!)

LIstening to soul in isolation on this, fantastic, thanks Ned.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSfxjgIYjeGYUBs4NLlFEaMaKp5C6FPpC

You're welcome of course. I'll have a piece running in the Quietus tomorrow.

RIP :(

Way too young. A remarkable drummer in terms of what he didn't do, powerful without overpowering.

One of my favourite little bits of JL is that minute and a bit outro of On The Beach where the drums smashing through at the end of each bar, wave after wave onto the shore

Terrible news. I also thought of "Soul in Isolation" first, now it's time to reckon with "In Shreds," "Nathan's Phase"... jeez.

Giving a listen to the Live in Toronto album from the Strange Times tour now. They played San Diego that tour, and had I been just a bit more aware or on top of things, I suppose I could have gone or tried to go, but I was still very much a top 40 kid, wouldn't've known. Though I did see the reunion tour of course, I really can't complain.

FUCK

Man, what sad news. A lot of the Chameleons sound comes down to how powerful his drum parts were

My Quietus memorial is live:

http://thequietus.com/articles/21990-rip-the-chameleons-john-lever

Well said, Ned

great piece ned

Thanks kindly.

Another farewell to him, from Black Swan Lane's Jack Sobel

http://blackswanlane.com/goodbye-john/

https://scontent.fbed1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20663881_10156145323592137_7011716937297355767_n.jpg?oh=7f94036b7bb4faeeb7aca0c2f0a6dad3&oe=5A346751

oh my gosh, that is both brilliant and hideous

found amidst table of wizard of oz collectible plates and figurines at yard sale in illinois, so nutty. old lady next to me was like "is that suppose to be one of them oompa loompas...or ?"

LOL. Can just imagine the Mrs' face when comes home with that.

bump

Touring now, going to see Mark and the latest band in Boston on Sat night.

Who sang the first track on Tony Fletcher?

Mark sings everything. Except for the toast on WCIA.

I hadn't realized that those Dreams In Celluloid recordings were non-studio album tracks. Started to realise when I heard "Everyday I'm Crucified". Cant forget a lyric like "I think I know how Christ felt when they killed him on that hill, pissed off!"

"Denims And Curls" sounds like a Morrissey song.

Another song on the EP sounds like a full-on "wake up sheeple" thing. Didn't notice until several plays that he was doing a sheep "baaaaa".

Tony Fletcher (the person and the music recording) are both essential to life.

https://www.discogs.com/The-Chameleons-Free-Trade-Hall-Rehearsal/release/387186

Listening to that album for the first time in ages. The mix still leaves a lot to be desired, but it's just about impossible not to marvel at how good they were. Any 'Mad Jack' is bound to be good, but man they rip through it here. Probably my favorite recording of the tune.

Holy shit, I forgot they do 'In Answer' on here as well. This song is absolutely gorgeous. Always has been.👍🏻

Yeah, there's a dearth of great live recordings from the "Strange Times" tour.

I don't think I will ever tire of hearing them move from the brute, maniacal charge in the first section to the sound of souls exiting in the second half of 'A Person Isn't Safe Anywhere These Days.'

Would still argue that's one of their absolute best; and one of the most "zeitgeist-esque" songs of the era.

Mark relaying the situation in one summed up and terrifying question after the outburst:

"`Have you killed her?`, someone said." is one of the darkest and most intense moments in recorded music, I'd reckon. Makes me scared to visit northern England for sure.

But also somehow one of the most profound and beautiful codas I've ever heard.

xpost -- At least there's Live in Toronto. I know I have one other bootleg kicking around.

I used to have a boot from the Philly show but lost it years ago. I recall it being better than "Toronto".

https://www.brooklynvegan.com/the-mission-uk-the-chameleons-touring-in-2022-with-theatre-of-hate/

i used to love the Mission UK, they are so bad. just another U2.

hmm, dave not involved with the chams. those dudes have been through it. has anyone heard any of his stuff post-reunion? last i knew, he was in a band called coconut dogfuck but i never checked it out. he strikes me as a very misunderstood person, just in general.

glad to see mark has reconciled with reg to the point that they can share a stage again. wonder who's going to be on drums - i didn't see any details in the link.

in any case, yes the mish are quite boring.

is there a rundown of the beef between Mark and Dave somewhere?

well, mark's book was about two-thirds about exactly that, so lol not really.

it stems from mark and dave both having gigantic egos and was really ignited by mark pressing up unreleased chameleons recordings and selling them without asking all of the other members of the group (though he did give them a part of the profits) [citation needed].

i think that sums up the genesis of their beef, but there is a lot more.
how they ever got back together for the reunion boggles my mind.

The unreleased stuff, that's what came out on Imaginary Records - "Dali's Picture", "Here Today", those albums, right?

not the imaginary stuff; that was after they had somewhat come to an agreement. the initial conflict was over the glass pyramid stuff, i.e. the tony fletcher ep. from what i understand, the band agreed when they went their separate ways in 1988 that those recordings were "not finished" and therefore would not be releasing them.

basically summarizing from mark's book. as one-sided as his story is, it is pretty illuminating as to why those guys have such a strained relationship. considering they split on even worse terms after the initial reunion, i wonder how this new incarnation came to be.

all of this just makes me sad thinking of jon sitting back there pounding away at "soul in isolation."
you know he'd be involved in this new tour if he was still alive.

Yeah that's why I can't be bothered with this. Having seen Mark solo throughout the 90s, even with John on drums at points, he was absolutely essential there, but no guitarists could even approach the perfect flow of Reg and Dave together -- when I saw the 2001/2002 shows it all made SENSE, it has to be the quartet or nothing when it comes to Chameleons songs. I did see Mark solo with a backing band later in the 2000s and it was a solid enough show, but when he started doing that ChameleonsVox approach I was out, and now that John's gone, I'm sorry, but the band has definitively ended, no matter what label is being used. I'd think that even if Dave was on board.

I'd think that even if Dave was on board.

― Ned Raggett, Saturday, October 9, 2021 8:55 AM

inclined to agree here.

at this point, the innerband conflicts are becoming their most known legacy; and half of the band playing as "THE CHAMELEONS" doesn't seem like the kind of thing one does to extend the olive branch.

though i doubt most folks seeing them on this kind of bill really care. i do genuinely believe that mark feels like he is "giving the fans what they want."

Have seen chameleons vox a couple of times not really sure what to expect, but hearing Mark singing those songs right there in front of ne, it was impossible for me not to get swept away

see that's the thing: he is an outstanding performer. i saw him play one of his post-reunion pre-chamsvox pick up band gigs and it was fucking awesome. he played a bit acoustic before the proper set and he was taking requests for the sun and the moon songs, for fucks sake.

like i said, the guy seems to genuinely love his fans as much as they love him. and he has a gigantic ego, so he loves the attention it brings.

also i didn't mean that ego thing in a demeaning way. don't get me wrong or whatever.

Anyone seen them on the current tour? I'm thinking of going next week. Doubt I'd stay for the Mission but eight or so Chameleons songs still seems worth it.

I saw them in June if that counts as 'the current tour'. Very enjoyable! Mark was on excellent form - charming and combative.

ah thanks, that seals it

Saw 'em a few weeks ago, had a really good time! The Mission were fun too.

Playing the US in August

Sweet. Still kicking myself for missing them last year, was utterly shocked how cheap it was and how small the venue was. Straight up injustice.

Oh wow, and they're playing Strange Times. I might have to find a way to be in... Kansas City?

They were so good last fall, just wish the set had been longer, esp. after finding out they'd ended up headlining the night before. Could've listened to Mark riff on popular songs in the middle of "Soul in Isolation" for at least another hour.