An open letter to ILX & mods re: an alternative to the current system

anyway, i'm just curious to SEE the source code. guessing it's several echelons above my paygrade, but w/e

yeah and consensus is the wrong word--maybe more like "yes, if you build this and demonstrate it we will consider adopting it"

and i believe all we've gotten is that wmc likes the idea and justen doesn't and those are the only two mods that talk now

xp - please ban me from this thread, i'm too tempted to post another dozen funny .jpgs of carts and horses.

'funny'

and maybe some of the people who use the board but don't get all excited for a Sunday night SB fight might have an opinion on enforcing ILX's "core values" too.

baffled by yr venom itt, aero.

I can't say I really understand it myself but it's like visceral - it's like - this seems to me a clear case of, there are unpaid volunteers providing you a service, if you don't like how the service works, guess what, the world's your oyster - it's like bitching about mainstream music - don't like what you hear, make your own & shut the fuck up - nobody's making you listen to shit - if your scene sucks, it's your fault - this is punk rock 101 imo

ok then

It's heavy-handed lazy modding in response to a handful of destructive posters.

I'm not sure I agree with this. It isnt "lazy" at all - the bans are NOT automatic, the mods still exercise some discretion on them and still have to action them, as has been stated several times upthread and in previous threads.

Just sayin'.

Punk rock, to me, means, if you don't like something, you own your scene, you have the right to try and change it for the better. You can go off and make your own little scene, or if you have time and effort already invested in something, you can try to change it from the inside.

Sometimes that means making suggestions if you don't have direct access to the means of production. Or if access to those means of production have been blocked for perfectly good reasons. (I certainly understand why the source code is private, after the actions of people like Graham and JW.)

But what it does NOT mean is that you do not have the right to ask to make something better, if you can think of a good idea that you think might have a reasonable shot at working. That to me is just bullshit "my country, love it or leave it" conservatism, and nothing to do with punk rock at all. That attitude really does get on my fibroid.

Now I gotta go to bed.

how would mods feel about a thread where we explained why we've just sb'd someone?

That to me is just bullshit "my country, love it or leave it" conservatism, and nothing to do with punk rock at all.

otm times a billion

how would mods feel about a thread where we explained why we've just sb'd someone?

maracas.jpg

It isnt "lazy" at all - the bans are NOT automatic, the mods still exercise some discretion on them and still have to action them, as has been stated several times upthread and in previous threads.

Curated crowdsourcing is still crowdsourcing. That's fine when it's gathering new ideas for a business venture or summat.

Again, it's the presence of the sb link on every single post that bothers me the most. It's not coupled with anything positive like karma or (hvn forfend) a 'like' button.

aerosmith's maybe over-extended himself on this point- iirc his point from these numerous threads is not 'my country, sign up or gtfo'. it's 'stop blithely assigning work to volunteers'.

there's not much of that going on itt imo.

but the notion of people designing their own site and that then being switched for ilx? madness, you know that, right? couple of you seem to think that's accepted at this stage.

It's kinda hypocritical double-bind to say "STOP MAKING DEMANDS OF VOLUNTEERS!!!" (who was demanding? I was suggesting.) and then turn around slap someone down for daring to suggest "hey, actually, I'm a programmer, I might be able to help you out."

if that's aimed at me, i specifically typed in english that the first thing you say hasn't happened itt. in english. specifically.

turn around slap someone down for daring to suggest "hey, actually, I'm a programmer, I might be able to help you out."

this happened?

Make up your mind. Is it "THIS IS PUNK ROCK, DO IT YOURSELF!" or is it "NO ONE IS DESIGNING THEIR OWN CODE THIS IS MADNESS" ?

i'm super confused but let me say again i completely support yr efforts if you actually want to write something for the site

I am srsly not trying to be willfully obtuse here but as a mod who deals w/ sbans, I am still completely baffled by how the sb system and this flagged post system are in any way functionally different.

but the notion of people designing their own site and that then being switched for ilx? madness, you know that, right? couple of you seem to think that's accepted at this stage.

*slaps Karen in the face*

― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 November 2010 18:28 (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

that's actually what happened, i remember now.

as i understand it, instead of a tempban at 51 there will be some kind of amorphous mod action around 20

Make up your mind. Is it "THIS IS PUNK ROCK, DO IT YOURSELF!" or is it "NO ONE IS DESIGNING THEIR OWN CODE THIS IS MADNESS" ?

just to be extremely clear, it's the latter.

has any one individual post ever attracted 20 sbans?

betting not

Like I kind of think people just don't understand how it works or something. Nothing anybody has mentioned in this thread is any different as far as I understand it other than changing the name of the function and adding a drop down menu?

xps

if that's aimed at me, i specifically typed in english that the first thing you say hasn't happened itt. in english. specifically.

also reposting this, in anticipation of you again repeating that i said both things and calling me a hypocrite again.

xp stfu and go do it jj, it's what 5 people want

Change the name, call it 'u r dick' or something xp

^^^support this

jjj, as I understand it, the main difference is that dick-move-perpetrators are informed of the dickishness of their move immediately rather than find out weeks or months later that their posting life is considered a collection of dickmoves by 51 ilxors -- which I'm totally for. I think that a lot of ilxors who get flagged are going to say "fuck you, that's just me KEEPIN IT REAL," but at least everybody will know exactly what they're getting called out for

I get the impression part of what K8 is asking for is that a clicked on post will flag that as a SB and therefore she (or anyone) knows why they're being flagged.

The current system only allows you to SB a person once, which a flag-post system would change (as I assume we'd be allowed to flag multiple posts by the same person - I would certainly expect this).

I cant help wondering if some people reeeeallly may not find it fruitful to know why people are SBing them, imo. But thats just me.

fyi mods sarge has informed me he is still unable to post sitewide

I am srsly not trying to be willfully obtuse here but as a mod who deals w/ sbans, I am still completely baffled by how the sb system and this flagged post system are in any way functionally different.

I kinda thought I had explained that in the first post. But again, this time more slowly.

Suggest Ban is "confirm you want this USER removed from the site - at some point between now and 6 months"
Flag/Report Post is "I find this POST objectionable and would like moderator action on it - ASAP"

The former is directed entirely against an individual as a whole. The latter is directed against a specific action.
The former is "You are a bad person" the latter is "this thing you did, it is bad"
The former is disconnected in time and explanation from the actual action that caused it. The latter is causally connected, both at the time, and in specific explanation, to the action.
The former is "I, as a banner, do not have to justify this action in any way" the latter is "I have to specify why I want action taken"

Do you understand how these two things are different?

One is a blanket indictment of an entire person, without ever explaining why they are bad, just that they are bad, and they should go away.
The other is very specifically aimed at actions, with the idea of pointing out what behaviour is unacceptable, with the specific intent of changing that behaviour.

J0rdan, if you're reading this, try posting now

jjj, as I understand it, the main difference is that dick-move-perpetrators are informed of the dickishness of their move immediately rather than find out weeks or months later that their posting life is considered a collection of dickmoves by 51 ilxors -- which I'm totally for. I think that a lot of ilxors who get flagged are going to say "fuck you, that's just me KEEPIN IT REAL," but at least everybody will know exactly what they're getting called out for

― Unfrozen Caveman Board-Lawyer (WmC), Sunday, November 21, 2010 5:46 PM (58 seconds ago) Bookmark

props for this. extracting reason from all the clusterfuckery.

xp stfu and go do it jj, it's what 5 people want

― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 November 2010 23:42 (1 minute ago)

http://i.imgur.com/UnvzI.jpg

xxxxxp to kaen

some of us want the option of the user being removed from the whole site for 30 days, should we start a thread lobbying against that being removed?

again, taking you at face value that you don;t know how you could ever have been banned under sb, your argument is predicated on being suggest banned for nothing that you can think of except that at least 51 ilxors are total shitheads.

most of my sb's are of the "you need a break from the site" variety

To make it really short:

Suggest ban = users are two year olds
Flag/report post = users are adults

I had a bunch of stuff to say, but it's probably better that I stay out of these convos. Lemme just say that I'm glad I'm not a mod here, many of you are... needlessly difficult.

this all seems a bit complex

maybe we shd just say why we sb people, as and when, but oh no, that would be zing culture

does anyone read anymore

cad: k8 has stated several times over that she a) is a programmer (tho rusty) and b) would at least like to look at the source code. as would i, but mostly to see if i can even parse it.

as for how this would be substantially different than SBs: i've made what i thought was a pretty clear case, a few times. flagging posts attracts mod attn ~to that post~ and they can, as they do now, decide what to do about the infraction. modding is then directed towards something controversial ~as it happens~ vs someone suddenly getting disappeared because their posting history caught up with them. also, in a "rhetorical" sense, flagging a post is just saying "i don't think this is appropriate" vs saying "i think this person should no longer post on ilx"

xp thanking u, kate

most of my sb's are of the "you need a break from the site" variety

Actually my (very very few) have also been this. General "pull back, you need a break" pings, based on multiple posts of wtfery.

again, taking you at face value that you don;t know how you could ever have been banned under sb, your argument is predicated on being suggest banned for nothing that you can think of except that at least 51 ilxors are total shitheads.

No.

My argument is "if you do not KNOW why you have been SB'd, your imagination can run riot and you can think that it might be for A or for B or for CDEFGHIJKLMNOP"

If you want to read that as saying "OMG, she just accused everyone who SB'd her of being LMNOP!" that is an incorrect conclusion to draw from the statement that I made.

what about those of us who sb as a gesture of love

sure it's a dysfunctional way of expressing ourselves but who are you to judge us

in seriousness tho K8 people do tell you when they're exasperated with you? like how you could not know exactly which posting behaviors have resulted in sb's is a total mystery, since you are smart and can figure that out??

if you have ever been banned can you be considered an adult

cad: k8 has stated several times over that she a) is a programmer (tho rusty) and b) would at least like to look at the source code. as would i, but mostly to see if i can even parse it.

i know! why are you explaining this to me?

sometimes we just like to explain things to call all destroyer