Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

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High hopes for this turning out a smart and civil discussion like the horror films why not thread, deep fears that it will descend into madness fyi

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think it's bc games are competitive experiences and competition brings out the worst in human beings

― Mordy, Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:30 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

idk i obv have some pretty strong concerns abt that wrt online FPS screaming idiots and the like, but i dont think that has as much to do with the games themselves (i mean obv its part of the experience but it isnt internalized content per se)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

some of it is cultural differences/lack of knowledge between Asia and the West.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

do you guys mean disgusting behavior in players or the games?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

i mean ive heard some commentary on this but a lot of the big arguments are a little facile and outsidery to me, like the idea that games are a juvenilized form of entertainment and thus more prone to juvenile thinking

xxpost yeah bnw that is def one of the things that i think factors in

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

the sexism is definitely audience targeting. and it is depressingly dead on.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

i am talking abt the games, not the players, but obv there is going to be some reflection there wrt consumers influencing content etc

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's not just that consumers influence the content, it's also that game creators are gamers themselves and exist in the gaming community. they play on the same multiplayer servers and their customers, they're influenced by the same games...

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

-demographics.
-the fact that computer games, for fairly obvious reasons, attract less sophisticated writers than other forms of media.

zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

was the new deus ex french? or french canadian? because thats def one of the weirdest examples of this - fairly thoughtful intellectual game and then whoa whats up with this homeless lady

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

to be perjorative a bit, nerds' poor socialization extends to society broadly, not just socializing. and they get reeeaaally defensive when called on their shit.

combined with a post-rockstar "it's supposed to be funny!" attitude w/r/t this kind of shit and it's a toxic brew

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

A big hook for many games is "by gamers, for gamers"; this means almost by design that a good chunk of regressive content is going to be present in the games since they are operating in this feedback loop where the social environment these games are created in is normalized to be incredibly shitty in a lot of ways.

For all of the equality for things like, say, making your character be male or female is a cosmetic change that doesn't affect your stats, you have things like all of the female iterations of the WoW races being as close to "busty cutie-pie" as the baseline skin will allow them to be (the undead and dwarf races are particularly comical re: this, but even the frickin' minotaur race has "sexy" female forms with cow heads).

xposts basically covered all of this but I am inflicting the concept of sexy cows on y'all anyway

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

some of it is sort of legacy racism from the earlier forms of media that fed VGs? D&D, action movies, etc

xp oh god WoW haha

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

how do you guys rank sexism/racism by systems? nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

also, game content really not as important as ludic components (the best story can just barely redeem a game with terrible gameplay sometimes, while tons of beloved games have amazing gameplay and no story to speak of, or a really shitty story), so it's less important to designers to get stuff right with the content - which is where the racist/sexist stuff primarily exists

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

I mean... come on

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

actually feel like WoW held back a lot compared to some other games.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

Skyrim has the same sort of issues. Like ... why does my lizard lady have tits.

polyphonic, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

have you ever played a Mario game??? also Punchout lololol.

zappi, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

theyre not?

Lamp, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

mario racist against turtles?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

well sure, WoW isn't like Duke Nukem, but the point is more that the whole "moving comic book" medium that their art direction is based upon is super normalized in how the genders should be represented, to the point where even for races where it doesn't make sense for the males to be burly he-men and the women to be curvy sexpots, they still are

also, there's the female night elf dance (which is based on the famous Alizee clips that were zooming around the Internet in the early 00s):

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

copying this over from the other thread because i thinks it a very interesting and good point to think abt

i wonder if part of it is because games are often a solo experience (though not always of course) whereas movies, at some point in their release cycle at least, are experienced collectively? in other words, because the casual racism is easier for people to swallow by themselves as opposed to in a group?

― 1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:29 PM (25 minutes ago)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

okay lol @ Mario being so mainstreamed that all of the "MAMA MIA" and "IT'SA ME, MARIO!" interjections don't even register as caricature anymore

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

i disagree w/ ZS's assertion esp bc i think the most racist/sexist behavior re video games happens in their most collective experience (multiplayer)

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I think this is pretty easily chalked up to creators pandering to (and being born of) the overwhelmingly 15-35 male demographics of AAA game buyers. The women and men who like and play AAA games but don't like sexualized representations of women in these games (and also comic books) make their voices heard but the majority of the audience would be bummed if you took away their lizardwoman tits.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

duh DJP you cant be racist against italians anymore, the godfather fixed that forever

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

did Mario ever say those lines or are we forcing racism on the poor guy? are we blaming his video game char for his cartoon version? important issues in my work day

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

"it's a-me, Mario!" the sound of booting up Super Mario 64 iirc.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol gg then

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

fyi listening to that may drive you crazy

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

the Mario Kart one is also insane

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

"So long, gay Bowser!"

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

Alot of this sounds like hes sleeping with someone. *barfs*
PeachyzeldagirlXD 3 weeks ago

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Do u say "ravioli!" when u fuckin?

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

did they really get roberto benigni to do the voices?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Everybody knows that Mario's wet dreams involve pasta and Bowser.

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

I worked at a gaming geek/comic book store for a couple years and this kind of stuff is everywhere. the idea that females without massive bobs existed at some point is lost on these people

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha awesome typo

"I like the writer but does the artist have to make every female character's hair so big?"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'ma luigi. nambar wan.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh man my old college roommate used to say "yeah, peach has got it" in a squeaky ass voice all the time. mad nostalgia.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

I never played the Horde side of WoW with any regularity so I didn't realize that the trolls were all Jamaican until way way late in the game when I started a troll character because I was bored. Reading the quest text for most of the starter area was PAINFUL.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's a ton of gender normalization in movies too, yeah?

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

im def not saying that movies are immune but i dont think you can make the argument that movies even approach the overt O_O aspects of video games wrt either of these

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

(I also used to play WoW with the sound off and either Vent or iTunes going, so I missed a good chunk of the voice acting)

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh yeah for sure, and movies as a genre are much more mature. but it seems to me that anytime you throw a lot of money at a project (either a blockbuster movie or a blockbuster game) you're gonna end up w/ some pretty unreasonable gender representations

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

a ctrl + f reveals we've done grimachu already

the thread is eating itself, sorry everyone

bizarro gazzara, Thursday, 11 December 2014 15:00 (1 week ago) Permalink

hoo boy

bizarro gazzara, Friday, 12 December 2014 10:52 (1 week ago) Permalink

made it through like half of that.

how's life, Friday, 12 December 2014 11:37 (1 week ago) Permalink

that might be the most pitiable thing I've ever seen

Nixon head is essential. (stevie), Friday, 12 December 2014 12:50 (1 week ago) Permalink

looks to be like 3 reasons

goole, Friday, 12 December 2014 15:55 (1 week ago) Permalink

yeah i made it through the first three reasons

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Friday, 12 December 2014 16:16 (1 week ago) Permalink

"because of feminism, people believe me when i speak" cool but probably not true
"boys treat me well online" i thought you weren't into white knighting or w/e
"because i'm a girl people won't think i'm a loser shut-in" also probably not true

goole, Friday, 12 December 2014 16:18 (1 week ago) Permalink

for the girls in that video, actually #gg is about taking aim at who they think were the popular kids, or at least more popular than them. the resentment is palpable, as is an absolute absence of empathy for anyone but themselves.

Nixon head is essential. (stevie), Friday, 12 December 2014 16:29 (1 week ago) Permalink

...nerds...

lag∞n, Friday, 12 December 2014 16:42 (1 week ago) Permalink

these are children. children

https://twitter.com/Kingofpol/status/540203204777353216

goole, Friday, 12 December 2014 18:12 (1 week ago) Permalink

yup literal children

lag∞n, Friday, 12 December 2014 18:18 (1 week ago) Permalink

TheKentuckian ‏@Warwick7th Dec 3

@jeh704 @Kingofpol trouble with Fox is, if it isn't political and easily framed, they will run over you. GG isn't easily framed anymore.

lol

the farakhan of gg (DJP), Friday, 12 December 2014 18:33 (1 week ago) Permalink

if only there was some one line summary of what GG was actually about

A cat having an apron (Noodle Vague), Friday, 12 December 2014 18:36 (1 week ago) Permalink

THE GULL

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Friday, 12 December 2014 18:42 (1 week ago) Permalink

lol

the cover's pretty good too:

bizarro gazzara, Monday, 15 December 2014 12:52 (1 week ago) Permalink

Have seen a couple of Total Biscuit's videos, he comes across as one of those people who has un/consciously developed a Jeremy Clarkson-esque conversational spiel/patter that suggests banter of some kind is occuring, but in fact cloaks only dull commentary on games of Starcraft 2, and sounds like the sort of person you would least want to be cornered into conversation with at the office christmas party.

Nixon head is essential. (stevie), Monday, 15 December 2014 16:34 (1 week ago) Permalink

He won Pope Dewrito's Gamer of the Year Award.

poxy fülvous (abanana), Monday, 15 December 2014 18:00 (1 week ago) Permalink

he probably also makes 6 figures being a bloviating video game vlogger on youtube

panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Monday, 15 December 2014 20:14 (1 week ago) Permalink

why is the pope giving gamers awards

leyawn (dumbass man), Tuesday, 16 December 2014 01:13 (6 days ago) Permalink

it's the mass effect

ledge, Tuesday, 16 December 2014 09:17 (6 days ago) Permalink

^ ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooffffffffffffffffff nice

(HOT CHICK FROM BAR 2008) (Will M.), Tuesday, 16 December 2014 15:29 (6 days ago) Permalink

https://twitter.com/MuckRock/status/544928755991330816

duhhhh

goole, Tuesday, 16 December 2014 21:03 (6 days ago) Permalink

https://twitter.com/Chriss_m/status/544539950730190852

dude

goole, Tuesday, 16 December 2014 21:10 (6 days ago) Permalink

actually it's about me

https://twitter.com/Nero/status/544451050712080384

goole, Tuesday, 16 December 2014 21:11 (6 days ago) Permalink

watch out best seller lists

A cat having an apron (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 16 December 2014 21:16 (6 days ago) Permalink

xps what's the fbi thing about?

pursuit of happiness (art), Tuesday, 16 December 2014 21:29 (6 days ago) Permalink

one of them made a FOIA request about something, not sure what

goole, Tuesday, 16 December 2014 21:35 (6 days ago) Permalink

when being told you're dense is chalked up as a victory:

https://twitter.com/TinyPixelBlock/status/544977157013770242

goole, Tuesday, 16 December 2014 22:19 (6 days ago) Permalink

these guys just can't stop with the civil rights comparisons

bizarro gazzara, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 12:53 (5 days ago) Permalink

hardly the main point of criticism, but that guy doesn't know what "shibboleth" means

Ratt in Mi Kitchen (Neil S), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 13:04 (5 days ago) Permalink

he seems confused over 'clash' too

bizarro gazzara, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 13:17 (5 days ago) Permalink

free speech, truth, sacrifice, etc

a stupid red mute juggalo (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 15:56 (5 days ago) Permalink

Actually, it's about a lack of standards in publicly funded education.

Simply The Bessed! (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 16:01 (5 days ago) Permalink

i'll just put this here, because the list of RTs/favs is half conservative creeps, half GG creeps (if the venn diagram isn't just a circle atp). i wasn't even looking for GG shit, but there those same names are, always...

massive trigger warning

https://twitter.com/rooshv/status/545063470388219904

i look at a lot of trash daily but i haven't wanted to see a man injured in a looong time...

goole, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 19:12 (5 days ago) Permalink

at least it made me aware of this terrible Heisenberg bot that just goes into random conversations and tweets "I AM THE DANGER" or alternatively, "YO SOY EL PELIGRO"

Nhex, Wednesday, 17 December 2014 19:16 (5 days ago) Permalink

what a garbage excuse for a human being

valleys of your mind (mh), Wednesday, 17 December 2014 21:12 (5 days ago) Permalink

the levels of political confusion in this tweet

https://twitter.com/bio_nils/status/511819995677224960

goole, Thursday, 18 December 2014 18:03 (4 days ago) Permalink

https://medium.com/@turnoffthenews/the-brief-and-silly-history-of-metalgate-30e2a9b8c9c8

Seems to have crept over into the world of heavy metal now.

how's life, Thursday, 18 December 2014 22:35 (4 days ago) Permalink

we're this much closer to ILM as the new journolist let's start pushing #Raggettgate

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Friday, 19 December 2014 00:06 (3 days ago) Permalink

don't even

(HOT CHICK FROM BAR 2008) (Will M.), Friday, 19 December 2014 00:18 (3 days ago) Permalink

i guess jimmy wales just told these guys to eat a dick

goole, Friday, 19 December 2014 04:01 (3 days ago) Permalink

not in so many words

goole, Friday, 19 December 2014 04:01 (3 days ago) Permalink

#Raggettgate

I cannot imagine a more diametrically opposed hashtag!

Let's make it happen!

hyggeligt, Friday, 19 December 2014 23:25 (3 days ago) Permalink

"It's about ethics in music journalism #Raggettgate"

hyggeligt, Friday, 19 December 2014 23:27 (3 days ago) Permalink

ethics in tie colours iirc

don't ask me why i posted this (electricsound), Saturday, 20 December 2014 00:21 (2 days ago) Permalink

heh.

how's life, Saturday, 20 December 2014 00:22 (2 days ago) Permalink

Lol

hyggeligt, Saturday, 20 December 2014 17:53 (2 days ago) Permalink


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