Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

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High hopes for this turning out a smart and civil discussion like the horror films why not thread, deep fears that it will descend into madness fyi

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:32 (3 years ago) Permalink

i think it's bc games are competitive experiences and competition brings out the worst in human beings

― Mordy, Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:30 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

idk i obv have some pretty strong concerns abt that wrt online FPS screaming idiots and the like, but i dont think that has as much to do with the games themselves (i mean obv its part of the experience but it isnt internalized content per se)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

some of it is cultural differences/lack of knowledge between Asia and the West.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:39 (3 years ago) Permalink

do you guys mean disgusting behavior in players or the games?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

i mean ive heard some commentary on this but a lot of the big arguments are a little facile and outsidery to me, like the idea that games are a juvenilized form of entertainment and thus more prone to juvenile thinking

xxpost yeah bnw that is def one of the things that i think factors in

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

the sexism is definitely audience targeting. and it is depressingly dead on.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

i am talking abt the games, not the players, but obv there is going to be some reflection there wrt consumers influencing content etc

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:42 (3 years ago) Permalink

it's not just that consumers influence the content, it's also that game creators are gamers themselves and exist in the gaming community. they play on the same multiplayer servers and their customers, they're influenced by the same games...

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

-demographics.
-the fact that computer games, for fairly obvious reasons, attract less sophisticated writers than other forms of media.

zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

was the new deus ex french? or french canadian? because thats def one of the weirdest examples of this - fairly thoughtful intellectual game and then whoa whats up with this homeless lady

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

to be perjorative a bit, nerds' poor socialization extends to society broadly, not just socializing. and they get reeeaaally defensive when called on their shit.

combined with a post-rockstar "it's supposed to be funny!" attitude w/r/t this kind of shit and it's a toxic brew

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:45 (3 years ago) Permalink

A big hook for many games is "by gamers, for gamers"; this means almost by design that a good chunk of regressive content is going to be present in the games since they are operating in this feedback loop where the social environment these games are created in is normalized to be incredibly shitty in a lot of ways.

For all of the equality for things like, say, making your character be male or female is a cosmetic change that doesn't affect your stats, you have things like all of the female iterations of the WoW races being as close to "busty cutie-pie" as the baseline skin will allow them to be (the undead and dwarf races are particularly comical re: this, but even the frickin' minotaur race has "sexy" female forms with cow heads).

xposts basically covered all of this but I am inflicting the concept of sexy cows on y'all anyway

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

some of it is sort of legacy racism from the earlier forms of media that fed VGs? D&D, action movies, etc

xp oh god WoW haha

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

how do you guys rank sexism/racism by systems? nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:48 (3 years ago) Permalink

also, game content really not as important as ludic components (the best story can just barely redeem a game with terrible gameplay sometimes, while tons of beloved games have amazing gameplay and no story to speak of, or a really shitty story), so it's less important to designers to get stuff right with the content - which is where the racist/sexist stuff primarily exists

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (3 years ago) Permalink

I mean... come on

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (3 years ago) Permalink

actually feel like WoW held back a lot compared to some other games.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

Skyrim has the same sort of issues. Like ... why does my lizard lady have tits.

polyphonic, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

have you ever played a Mario game??? also Punchout lololol.

zappi, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:52 (3 years ago) Permalink

theyre not?

Lamp, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (3 years ago) Permalink

mario racist against turtles?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (3 years ago) Permalink

well sure, WoW isn't like Duke Nukem, but the point is more that the whole "moving comic book" medium that their art direction is based upon is super normalized in how the genders should be represented, to the point where even for races where it doesn't make sense for the males to be burly he-men and the women to be curvy sexpots, they still are

also, there's the female night elf dance (which is based on the famous Alizee clips that were zooming around the Internet in the early 00s):

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

copying this over from the other thread because i thinks it a very interesting and good point to think abt

i wonder if part of it is because games are often a solo experience (though not always of course) whereas movies, at some point in their release cycle at least, are experienced collectively? in other words, because the casual racism is easier for people to swallow by themselves as opposed to in a group?

― 1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:29 PM (25 minutes ago)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

okay lol @ Mario being so mainstreamed that all of the "MAMA MIA" and "IT'SA ME, MARIO!" interjections don't even register as caricature anymore

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

i disagree w/ ZS's assertion esp bc i think the most racist/sexist behavior re video games happens in their most collective experience (multiplayer)

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I think this is pretty easily chalked up to creators pandering to (and being born of) the overwhelmingly 15-35 male demographics of AAA game buyers. The women and men who like and play AAA games but don't like sexualized representations of women in these games (and also comic books) make their voices heard but the majority of the audience would be bummed if you took away their lizardwoman tits.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

duh DJP you cant be racist against italians anymore, the godfather fixed that forever

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

did Mario ever say those lines or are we forcing racism on the poor guy? are we blaming his video game char for his cartoon version? important issues in my work day

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

"it's a-me, Mario!" the sound of booting up Super Mario 64 iirc.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

haha

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

lol gg then

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

fyi listening to that may drive you crazy

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

the Mario Kart one is also insane

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

"So long, gay Bowser!"

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

Alot of this sounds like hes sleeping with someone. *barfs*
PeachyzeldagirlXD 3 weeks ago

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:06 (3 years ago) Permalink

Do u say "ravioli!" when u fuckin?

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

did they really get roberto benigni to do the voices?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

Everybody knows that Mario's wet dreams involve pasta and Bowser.

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

I worked at a gaming geek/comic book store for a couple years and this kind of stuff is everywhere. the idea that females without massive bobs existed at some point is lost on these people

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:11 (3 years ago) Permalink

haha awesome typo

"I like the writer but does the artist have to make every female character's hair so big?"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:12 (3 years ago) Permalink

i'ma luigi. nambar wan.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:14 (3 years ago) Permalink

oh man my old college roommate used to say "yeah, peach has got it" in a squeaky ass voice all the time. mad nostalgia.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

I never played the Horde side of WoW with any regularity so I didn't realize that the trolls were all Jamaican until way way late in the game when I started a troll character because I was bored. Reading the quest text for most of the starter area was PAINFUL.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

there's a ton of gender normalization in movies too, yeah?

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

im def not saying that movies are immune but i dont think you can make the argument that movies even approach the overt O_O aspects of video games wrt either of these

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

(I also used to play WoW with the sound off and either Vent or iTunes going, so I missed a good chunk of the voice acting)

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:19 (3 years ago) Permalink

oh yeah for sure, and movies as a genre are much more mature. but it seems to me that anytime you throw a lot of money at a project (either a blockbuster movie or a blockbuster game) you're gonna end up w/ some pretty unreasonable gender representations

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

are you ready for ethics lmao

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 16 June 2015 13:29 (1 month ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 5 July 2015 04:36 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

whut

Purves Grundy (kingfish), Sunday, 5 July 2015 06:47 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

love the animation, too bad it's for something so stupid

Nhex, Sunday, 5 July 2015 19:00 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

it's Richard Williams, of:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thief_and_the_Cobbler

like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 5 July 2015 19:11 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

oh yes, that richard williams. For a min, I got him confused with Ken & Roberta Williams

Purves Grundy (kingfish), Sunday, 5 July 2015 19:48 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

seems about right btw
https://blog.jessfraz.com/post/this-industry-is-fucked/

like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 7 July 2015 00:39 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

it's still going

http://spjairplay.com/update6/

goole, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:18 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

what the hell

I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:30 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Grim · 1 Day Ago

What this sounds like, Mr K, is the betrayal everyone on the GG side has been expecting from you and that I’ve spent considerable time disarming and convincing people to continue to give you a chance.

15 minutes isn’t enough to cover the history and it is very important to give a context. A compromise might have been a briefing document but the history is necessary to understand everything.

All these people have been making even more effort than I have been to convince people this is a worthwhile endeavour, an effort you’ve just managed to utterly undermine.

Compromise is possible, but eventually there’s not much more you can give. People have been demanding compromise from GG but not reciprocating for some time.

Fixing problems isn’t immaturity, cutting and running after creating a problem and leaving the big boys to clean it up after you is pretty immature.

Yes, it is consuming, because it’s a big issue and even more so it’s a single battleground in the much larger culture war. It’s going to take effort. Perhaps you’re learning – as many have – that this multibillion dollar industry isn’t so trivial after all.

Maybe you should have tried to smooth things over before posting this.

If you need a mediator perhaps I could offer my services as a fresh face and figure out where things got twisted.

goole, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:33 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

clicking thru the links it appears that yes, that is this guy:

grimachu designed a card game wherein the players are hentai tentacle monsters and compete to rape people, unless im missing something

― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Thursday, October 16, 2014 7:03 PM (8 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

goole, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:34 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

15 minutes isn’t enough to cover the history and it is very important to give a context.

Do they think this is some labyrinthine conundrum that mere mortal minds have difficulty comprehending? How difficult is it to understand "gamers are deluded whining babies; here are a series of amazing and pathetic examples as to why"

I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:36 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Perhaps you’re learning – as many have – that this multibillion dollar industry isn’t so trivial after all.

Keith Moom (Neil S), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:45 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

that can be used as a readymade response to p much any argument ever. Finally something good has come out of GG!

Keith Moom (Neil S), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:48 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

maybe he could just stand on stage and shout that particular racial epithet for a while

Upright Mammal (mh), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:54 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

https://twitter.com/oliverbcampbell

goole, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 21:07 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

kind of an excitable guy

goole, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 21:08 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

how come mario doesn't have any black friends

The Once-ler, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 21:19 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

looks like I've ggautoblock'd him, what a delight! :D

cat-haver (silby), Thursday, 16 July 2015 02:06 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

lol PROVEN BY SCIENCE: statistically significant correlation between harassing women online and sucking at Halo.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/07/20/men-who-harass-women-online-are-quite-literally-losers-new-study-finds

resulting post (rogermexico.), Tuesday, 21 July 2015 07:34 (1 week ago) Permalink

that doesn't sound like a very like a very scientific study, if i'm being honest

Nhex, Tuesday, 21 July 2015 15:48 (1 week ago) Permalink

im pretty good at halo

#notallmen

Rave Van Donk (jim in glasgow), Tuesday, 21 July 2015 15:52 (1 week ago) Permalink

that doesn't sound like a very like a very scientific study, if i'm being honest

― Nhex, Tuesday, July 21, 2015

gtfo there's a data table and everything

resulting post (rogermexico.), Tuesday, 21 July 2015 16:34 (1 week ago) Permalink

lol

I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Tuesday, 21 July 2015 17:39 (1 week ago) Permalink

not awesome methodology

whiny-ass millennial titty babies (silby), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 02:26 (1 week ago) Permalink

our favourite grant morrison cosplayer has released a 'rough cut' of the sarkeesian effect:

his erstwhile partner has released a response video longer than the video he's responding to:

i haven't watched either because fuck that but i did find a summary of the response video which includes this priceless line:

Jordan reveals that Aurini originally wanted to structure the doc as a buddy comedy and wanted Him and Jordan to be characters in the doc which he continually pushed for and says this is the reason why they were framed into the interviews.

bizarro gazzara, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 09:37 (1 week ago) Permalink

I seen the best minds of my generation, hysterical

regret it? nope. reddit? yep. (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 09:39 (1 week ago) Permalink

self-clowning ovens, each and every one

Credit: howtokeepapositiveattitudedotcom (stevie), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 11:05 (1 week ago) Permalink

Redrumrunner
6:11 AM GMT
The vast (vast) majority of self profesed male feminists I know are very, er, non masculine guys with high pitched voices (and a valley girl twang) that were raised by a single mom.

I think they feel bad because they arent masculine, and who hates masculinity more than feminists? These guys feel comfortable with feminists because they bash masculinity, and if they bash masculinity, they dont have to feel bad about not being masculine.

The sad thing is, not even feminists really want to sleep with them, which will only further their frustrations.

Credit: howtokeepapositiveattitudedotcom (stevie), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 11:36 (1 week ago) Permalink

true. we should all aspire to models of rugged masculinity like davis aurini

bizarro gazzara, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 12:37 (1 week ago) Permalink

Credit: howtokeepapositiveattitudedotcom (stevie), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 12:41 (1 week ago) Permalink

collects skulls/is skull

Credit: howtokeepapositiveattitudedotcom (stevie), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 12:42 (1 week ago) Permalink

the degree to which this guy links his identity to Smoking Cigarettes and Drinking Whiskey is kind of tragic.

Credit: howtokeepapositiveattitudedotcom (stevie), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 12:42 (1 week ago) Permalink

that's someone's grandma's sofa, too

Credit: howtokeepapositiveattitudedotcom (stevie), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 12:43 (1 week ago) Permalink

wow that's remarkable, he really does look like skeleton. which is...ironic.

Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 12:44 (1 week ago) Permalink

is he wearing two pagers in holsters on his belt?

bizarro gazzara, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 12:45 (1 week ago) Permalink

prefers masculine signifiers like taut, well-toned abs and lots of leather

regret it? nope. reddit? yep. (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 12:49 (1 week ago) Permalink

i see the "has a family" part of the definition of "patriarch" is slipping away

goole, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 16:18 (1 week ago) Permalink

SPOILER: The big reveal of the film is apparently that Feminist Frequency's address is ... a post office box!! They tracked it down and filmed it. That is, their revelation demonstrates why people use PO boxes.

jmm, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 17:38 (1 week ago) Permalink

kinda lol but mostly sad

you are extreme, Patti LuPone. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 17:41 (1 week ago) Permalink

Do you guys think we could get a good Patreon going for a documentary about their documentary?

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 19:07 (1 week ago) Permalink

bizarro gazzara, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 20:07 (1 week ago) Permalink

nice

Nhex, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 20:16 (1 week ago) Permalink

Jesus fucking Christ: An entire article about the fact that Feminist Frequency can be (legally) quite cagy about the "need" to prove their charity status to just anyone, because the forms have their home addresses on them, which ends up with "Yeah, they're legit (but the documents totally have their home addresses on them)"

http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/2015/07/feminist-frequency-leaked-e-mails-reveal-why-theyre-secretive-about-charity-status/

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 20:25 (1 week ago) Permalink

So the big horrible thing they did here was use an artists' work without permission (which is what the ENTIRE youtube videogame economy is founded on) then politely remove it upon request.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 20:53 (1 week ago) Permalink

And not immediately provide a document with their names and addresses on it to a doxxer's friend.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 20:55 (1 week ago) Permalink

https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3e850m/voice_actor_troy_baker_supposedly_quitting/

LOL not even going to read that thread right now, I know it's a shit show.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 23 July 2015 05:52 (1 week ago) Permalink

Do you guys think we could get a good Patreon going for a documentary about their documentary?

would watch that documentary about their documentary

Credit: howtokeepapositiveattitudedotcom (stevie), Thursday, 23 July 2015 08:47 (1 week ago) Permalink

it's hilarious that #gg got in such an uproar about femfreq's kickstarter raising so much money because 'who needs cash to make a series of talking heads videos' and now these two clowns are providing a masterclass in how you can raise tens of thousands of dollars but still make videos which look amateurish as fuck

bizarro gazzara, Thursday, 23 July 2015 09:15 (1 week ago) Permalink

how is that dude's pic not on a leather sofa with a cigar, seems like he's kind of weak on his masculinity

Upright Mammal (mh), Friday, 24 July 2015 01:03 (1 week ago) Permalink


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