Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

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High hopes for this turning out a smart and civil discussion like the horror films why not thread, deep fears that it will descend into madness fyi

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:32 (3 years ago) Permalink

i think it's bc games are competitive experiences and competition brings out the worst in human beings

― Mordy, Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:30 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

idk i obv have some pretty strong concerns abt that wrt online FPS screaming idiots and the like, but i dont think that has as much to do with the games themselves (i mean obv its part of the experience but it isnt internalized content per se)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

some of it is cultural differences/lack of knowledge between Asia and the West.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:39 (3 years ago) Permalink

do you guys mean disgusting behavior in players or the games?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

i mean ive heard some commentary on this but a lot of the big arguments are a little facile and outsidery to me, like the idea that games are a juvenilized form of entertainment and thus more prone to juvenile thinking

xxpost yeah bnw that is def one of the things that i think factors in

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

the sexism is definitely audience targeting. and it is depressingly dead on.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

i am talking abt the games, not the players, but obv there is going to be some reflection there wrt consumers influencing content etc

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:42 (3 years ago) Permalink

it's not just that consumers influence the content, it's also that game creators are gamers themselves and exist in the gaming community. they play on the same multiplayer servers and their customers, they're influenced by the same games...

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

-demographics.
-the fact that computer games, for fairly obvious reasons, attract less sophisticated writers than other forms of media.

zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

was the new deus ex french? or french canadian? because thats def one of the weirdest examples of this - fairly thoughtful intellectual game and then whoa whats up with this homeless lady

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

to be perjorative a bit, nerds' poor socialization extends to society broadly, not just socializing. and they get reeeaaally defensive when called on their shit.

combined with a post-rockstar "it's supposed to be funny!" attitude w/r/t this kind of shit and it's a toxic brew

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:45 (3 years ago) Permalink

A big hook for many games is "by gamers, for gamers"; this means almost by design that a good chunk of regressive content is going to be present in the games since they are operating in this feedback loop where the social environment these games are created in is normalized to be incredibly shitty in a lot of ways.

For all of the equality for things like, say, making your character be male or female is a cosmetic change that doesn't affect your stats, you have things like all of the female iterations of the WoW races being as close to "busty cutie-pie" as the baseline skin will allow them to be (the undead and dwarf races are particularly comical re: this, but even the frickin' minotaur race has "sexy" female forms with cow heads).

xposts basically covered all of this but I am inflicting the concept of sexy cows on y'all anyway

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

some of it is sort of legacy racism from the earlier forms of media that fed VGs? D&D, action movies, etc

xp oh god WoW haha

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

how do you guys rank sexism/racism by systems? nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:48 (3 years ago) Permalink

also, game content really not as important as ludic components (the best story can just barely redeem a game with terrible gameplay sometimes, while tons of beloved games have amazing gameplay and no story to speak of, or a really shitty story), so it's less important to designers to get stuff right with the content - which is where the racist/sexist stuff primarily exists

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (3 years ago) Permalink

I mean... come on

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (3 years ago) Permalink

actually feel like WoW held back a lot compared to some other games.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

Skyrim has the same sort of issues. Like ... why does my lizard lady have tits.

polyphonic, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

have you ever played a Mario game??? also Punchout lololol.

zappi, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:52 (3 years ago) Permalink

theyre not?

Lamp, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (3 years ago) Permalink

mario racist against turtles?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (3 years ago) Permalink

well sure, WoW isn't like Duke Nukem, but the point is more that the whole "moving comic book" medium that their art direction is based upon is super normalized in how the genders should be represented, to the point where even for races where it doesn't make sense for the males to be burly he-men and the women to be curvy sexpots, they still are

also, there's the female night elf dance (which is based on the famous Alizee clips that were zooming around the Internet in the early 00s):

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

copying this over from the other thread because i thinks it a very interesting and good point to think abt

i wonder if part of it is because games are often a solo experience (though not always of course) whereas movies, at some point in their release cycle at least, are experienced collectively? in other words, because the casual racism is easier for people to swallow by themselves as opposed to in a group?

― 1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:29 PM (25 minutes ago)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

okay lol @ Mario being so mainstreamed that all of the "MAMA MIA" and "IT'SA ME, MARIO!" interjections don't even register as caricature anymore

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

i disagree w/ ZS's assertion esp bc i think the most racist/sexist behavior re video games happens in their most collective experience (multiplayer)

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I think this is pretty easily chalked up to creators pandering to (and being born of) the overwhelmingly 15-35 male demographics of AAA game buyers. The women and men who like and play AAA games but don't like sexualized representations of women in these games (and also comic books) make their voices heard but the majority of the audience would be bummed if you took away their lizardwoman tits.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

duh DJP you cant be racist against italians anymore, the godfather fixed that forever

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

did Mario ever say those lines or are we forcing racism on the poor guy? are we blaming his video game char for his cartoon version? important issues in my work day

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

"it's a-me, Mario!" the sound of booting up Super Mario 64 iirc.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

haha

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

lol gg then

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

fyi listening to that may drive you crazy

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

the Mario Kart one is also insane

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

"So long, gay Bowser!"

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

Alot of this sounds like hes sleeping with someone. *barfs*
PeachyzeldagirlXD 3 weeks ago

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:06 (3 years ago) Permalink

Do u say "ravioli!" when u fuckin?

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

did they really get roberto benigni to do the voices?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

Everybody knows that Mario's wet dreams involve pasta and Bowser.

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

I worked at a gaming geek/comic book store for a couple years and this kind of stuff is everywhere. the idea that females without massive bobs existed at some point is lost on these people

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:11 (3 years ago) Permalink

haha awesome typo

"I like the writer but does the artist have to make every female character's hair so big?"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:12 (3 years ago) Permalink

i'ma luigi. nambar wan.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:14 (3 years ago) Permalink

oh man my old college roommate used to say "yeah, peach has got it" in a squeaky ass voice all the time. mad nostalgia.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

I never played the Horde side of WoW with any regularity so I didn't realize that the trolls were all Jamaican until way way late in the game when I started a troll character because I was bored. Reading the quest text for most of the starter area was PAINFUL.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

there's a ton of gender normalization in movies too, yeah?

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

im def not saying that movies are immune but i dont think you can make the argument that movies even approach the overt O_O aspects of video games wrt either of these

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

(I also used to play WoW with the sound off and either Vent or iTunes going, so I missed a good chunk of the voice acting)

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:19 (3 years ago) Permalink

oh yeah for sure, and movies as a genre are much more mature. but it seems to me that anytime you throw a lot of money at a project (either a blockbuster movie or a blockbuster game) you're gonna end up w/ some pretty unreasonable gender representations

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

lmao u kno i think aaron clarey ("economist/author" = right wing blogger, now, i guess) lives up here

goole, Tuesday, 2 June 2015 15:33 (1 month ago) Permalink

one guy is credited as 'wikipedia editor' uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

goole, Tuesday, 2 June 2015 15:35 (1 month ago) Permalink

"sex worker/pHD candidate"

kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 2 June 2015 15:47 (1 month ago) Permalink

is that the pro-gg porn performer? is there more than one?

goole, Tuesday, 2 June 2015 15:48 (1 month ago) Permalink

'skull enthusiast / grant morrison cosplay performer'

bizarro gazzara, Tuesday, 2 June 2015 15:50 (1 month ago) Permalink

stardock more like starcock
* massive applause from the audience, I BASE jump off the eiffel tower into a sixty foot high pile of rose petals, emerging with long flowing hair whipping in the parisian wind, screaming FEMINISM FOREVA SUCKAZZZZZZ*

like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 2 June 2015 16:05 (1 month ago) Permalink

reloded

goole, Wednesday, 3 June 2015 15:37 (1 month ago) Permalink

brb getting Ready For Ethics

There was Bjork from Iceland and Alanis Morissette from Canada (onimo), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 15:39 (1 month ago) Permalink

Ethics, not just a county in the east of England

Keith Moom (Neil S), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 15:40 (1 month ago) Permalink

Portland, OR

Who M the best? (Will M.), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 15:42 (1 month ago) Permalink

eatht of England, thurely?

turly dark (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 16:30 (1 month ago) Permalink

portland, oregon, the last bastion against the scourge of social justice warriorism

bizarro gazzara, Wednesday, 3 June 2015 16:35 (1 month ago) Permalink

xp yeth of courth

Keith Moom (Neil S), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 16:55 (1 month ago) Permalink

are these guys getting a booth at e3

panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 22:50 (1 month ago) Permalink

That trailer upthread is hilarious, the interviewers and most of their interviewees seem like incredibly sketchy or schlumpy dudes, Jack Thompson just won't stop stroking his hair as he babbles about how Sarkeesian is the real misogynist here, and the first minute of cut together news snippets make a good case for Sarkeesian being legit persecuted and harassed. Also lol at the 'economist' and that skeletor dude both rocking the same open-necked shirt and cravat "I am a crepey seducer" look, like the interview was shot in the cafe of a book store where neil strauss was doing a signing or something.

NotKnowPotato (stevie), Thursday, 4 June 2015 10:13 (1 month ago) Permalink

I'm pretty sure that if they found themselves in that situation they'd fake a way to get him in the documentary, Bowfinger style.

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 4 June 2015 10:19 (1 month ago) Permalink

the fuck is this guy even talking about

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1smgr7s

none of this rings true

goole, Thursday, 4 June 2015 16:03 (1 month ago) Permalink

"[Gamergate] gave the US left (including the Dems) time to mount their own counterargument to the social justice movement and thereby not appear beholden to it--the quick adoption of "social justice warrior" as a negative stereotype speaks to this."

what on earth

goole, Thursday, 4 June 2015 16:04 (1 month ago) Permalink

there was a week of meetings at Camp David over it. Prez decided to forgo using the term "social justice" in order to pacify the neckbeard lobby.

bnw, Thursday, 4 June 2015 16:13 (1 month ago) Permalink

Auerbach in the entertainingly precarious position where there people who he'd piss off by turning GG have spotted what he's doing, but anyone in actual GG hasn't - given half a chance he'd try to be the next Milo (!) but the fish, they aren't biting.

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 4 June 2015 16:15 (1 month ago) Permalink

I just see those blocks of text and skim them and just don't want to even bother. If you take everything written about GG about 1% of it has to do with actual video games and the other 99% is a vortex of high school gossip-style bs spinning around in a toilet that is too full of shit to fully flush out.

©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 4 June 2015 16:20 (1 month ago) Permalink

aaaahhahahah yes, political historians will eventually unite around 2014 as a realignment year, when the US left (including the Dems) finally developed a counterargument to the social justice movement, around the nation-rocking flashpoint of ethics in video game journalism. amazing.

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 4 June 2015 16:22 (1 month ago) Permalink

it gets more hilarious the more i look at it

goole, Thursday, 4 June 2015 16:23 (1 month ago) Permalink

It mainly seems like people that are bored with video games and would rather treat social media like a new kind of game and using other people (who are real but may as well be virtual avatars) as NPCs/enemies in whatever game they are making up in their heads. All of the scary left wing figures they are fighting actually talk about video games and engage w the medium far more than GG drama queens.

©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 4 June 2015 16:23 (1 month ago) Permalink

a vortex of high school gossip-style bs spinning around in a toilet that is too full of shit to fully flush out.

^^^^ ty for this frankly unforgettable image

NotKnowPotato (stevie), Thursday, 4 June 2015 16:34 (1 month ago) Permalink

are these guys getting a booth at e3

― panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, June 3, 2015 5:50 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

even a shithole meeting room (not a booth even) in the basement is like way expensive, barebones table booth space in kentia hall would probably be like 30K or something, i think it was 20ish last time we bothered

kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 5 June 2015 17:00 (1 month ago) Permalink

i smell a kickstarter

like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Friday, 5 June 2015 17:12 (1 month ago) Permalink

i can't believe this is still a thing.

how

head clowning instructor (art), Friday, 5 June 2015 18:14 (1 month ago) Permalink

ethics in journalism iirc

bizarro gazzara, Friday, 5 June 2015 19:59 (1 month ago) Permalink

really bringing it all together

https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/39fill/discussionnow_you_see_why_gamergate_matters/

goole, Thursday, 11 June 2015 20:24 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

tl;dr: To quote /u/AlexHD's version of an old poem:

First they came for the Gamergaters, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Gamergater.

Then they came for the fat haters, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a fat hater.

Then they came for the Reddit users, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Reddit user.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

goole, Thursday, 11 June 2015 20:25 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

[–]IanPatrick1966 32 points 3 hours ago*

To confirm what you're saying: I've never posted in fatpeoplehate but once they banned the sub and didn't ban others like /r/coontown I took up the mantle of honorary shit-lord and have been upvoting posts from fellow shitlords across the entire site. I've also never even heard of Gamer Gate... but frankly I don't give any fucks about video games, journalism, or women so :/

EDIT: Was banned from Niel Degrasee Tyson's AMA because I asked his opinion on fat people. Da. Fuq.

goole, Thursday, 11 June 2015 20:27 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

Judge all black people by the actions of the few - Racism
Judge all people who are against censorship and thought policing by the actions of a few - Social justice
This is the problem with social 'justice':

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” -- C.S. Lewis

permalink
[–]KiltmanenatorInexperienced Irregular Folds 5 points 7 hours ago
That's some top shelf quality posting there, leader.

kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 June 2015 20:34 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

oh good, now my skin is crawling

DJP, Thursday, 11 June 2015 20:35 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

wowww_something random and stupid 6 points 3 hours ago
If only Jack Thompson could have been a victimized woman with feminism at his back. He would have made mad bank instead of being laughed out of his profession.
Anita doesn't even have a profession, and she's hailed as skilled in her field.
It sounds like a terribly bad joke, if you think about it.

Atratus920 2 points 3 hours ago
Straight fucking up, man.
Logic no longer exists in this world as something good people can use to move forward. We have to learn how to shout loud and repeat the same "victim" exploiting crap. Actual thought apparently no longer matters.

Every time I look into this stuff it is just a bizarre anti-realm of newspeak and oblivious irony. A lot of it does read like teenagers who just read Rand for the first time, the world is just a laboratory for them to test the limits of free speech, which drives an ideology of self-victimization, historical revisionism, and toxic paranoia.

They rant about SJWs claiming the victim, while every post is whiny shit about how the entire world is a conspiracy against them.

They rant about the dangers of censorship and opportunists yet embrace an opportunist who made his career censoring games.

All the bad qualities and tactics they project onto SJWs are all they have. They are the only things holding together this leaderless directionless destructive 'movement'.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 11 June 2015 21:01 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

this Jack Thompson thing is so bizarre, he wanted to ban GTA one of the games they defend against SJWS!!!!!!! wtf

kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 June 2015 21:14 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

one of the great far-right ideas these kids have imbibed is that "progressivism" is the new state religion so contemporary feminist/antiracist critics and 80s-era xtian fundie media fighter types are the same thing

goole, Thursday, 11 June 2015 21:16 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

I fucking WISH progressivism was the new state religion

demonic mnevice (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 11 June 2015 21:17 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

yeah i guess

also i suppose the tendency of ppl who are complete pieces of shit to congregate together

kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 June 2015 21:18 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

ilg board description

polyphonic, Thursday, 11 June 2015 21:25 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

wait wait wait these twatjockeys are DEFENDING Jack thompson now, wtf!?

I checked Snoops , and it is for real (Trayce), Thursday, 11 June 2015 22:59 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

I noticed a ton of /kotakuinaction subreddit threads firin up once the fatpeoplehate batsignal went up =\

panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Thursday, 11 June 2015 23:36 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

feel like this might be helpful some day so just putting it here

like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Friday, 12 June 2015 17:01 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

are you ready for ethics lmao

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 16 June 2015 13:29 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 5 July 2015 04:36 (2 days ago) Permalink

whut

Purves Grundy (kingfish), Sunday, 5 July 2015 06:47 (2 days ago) Permalink

love the animation, too bad it's for something so stupid

Nhex, Sunday, 5 July 2015 19:00 (2 days ago) Permalink

it's Richard Williams, of:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thief_and_the_Cobbler

like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 5 July 2015 19:11 (2 days ago) Permalink

oh yes, that richard williams. For a min, I got him confused with Ken & Roberta Williams

Purves Grundy (kingfish), Sunday, 5 July 2015 19:48 (2 days ago) Permalink

seems about right btw
https://blog.jessfraz.com/post/this-industry-is-fucked/

like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 7 July 2015 00:39 (17 hours ago) Permalink


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