Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

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High hopes for this turning out a smart and civil discussion like the horror films why not thread, deep fears that it will descend into madness fyi

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think it's bc games are competitive experiences and competition brings out the worst in human beings

― Mordy, Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:30 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

idk i obv have some pretty strong concerns abt that wrt online FPS screaming idiots and the like, but i dont think that has as much to do with the games themselves (i mean obv its part of the experience but it isnt internalized content per se)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

some of it is cultural differences/lack of knowledge between Asia and the West.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

do you guys mean disgusting behavior in players or the games?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

i mean ive heard some commentary on this but a lot of the big arguments are a little facile and outsidery to me, like the idea that games are a juvenilized form of entertainment and thus more prone to juvenile thinking

xxpost yeah bnw that is def one of the things that i think factors in

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

the sexism is definitely audience targeting. and it is depressingly dead on.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

i am talking abt the games, not the players, but obv there is going to be some reflection there wrt consumers influencing content etc

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's not just that consumers influence the content, it's also that game creators are gamers themselves and exist in the gaming community. they play on the same multiplayer servers and their customers, they're influenced by the same games...

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

-demographics.
-the fact that computer games, for fairly obvious reasons, attract less sophisticated writers than other forms of media.

zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

was the new deus ex french? or french canadian? because thats def one of the weirdest examples of this - fairly thoughtful intellectual game and then whoa whats up with this homeless lady

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

to be perjorative a bit, nerds' poor socialization extends to society broadly, not just socializing. and they get reeeaaally defensive when called on their shit.

combined with a post-rockstar "it's supposed to be funny!" attitude w/r/t this kind of shit and it's a toxic brew

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

A big hook for many games is "by gamers, for gamers"; this means almost by design that a good chunk of regressive content is going to be present in the games since they are operating in this feedback loop where the social environment these games are created in is normalized to be incredibly shitty in a lot of ways.

For all of the equality for things like, say, making your character be male or female is a cosmetic change that doesn't affect your stats, you have things like all of the female iterations of the WoW races being as close to "busty cutie-pie" as the baseline skin will allow them to be (the undead and dwarf races are particularly comical re: this, but even the frickin' minotaur race has "sexy" female forms with cow heads).

xposts basically covered all of this but I am inflicting the concept of sexy cows on y'all anyway

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

some of it is sort of legacy racism from the earlier forms of media that fed VGs? D&D, action movies, etc

xp oh god WoW haha

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

how do you guys rank sexism/racism by systems? nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

also, game content really not as important as ludic components (the best story can just barely redeem a game with terrible gameplay sometimes, while tons of beloved games have amazing gameplay and no story to speak of, or a really shitty story), so it's less important to designers to get stuff right with the content - which is where the racist/sexist stuff primarily exists

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

I mean... come on

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

actually feel like WoW held back a lot compared to some other games.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

Skyrim has the same sort of issues. Like ... why does my lizard lady have tits.

polyphonic, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

have you ever played a Mario game??? also Punchout lololol.

zappi, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

theyre not?

Lamp, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

mario racist against turtles?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

well sure, WoW isn't like Duke Nukem, but the point is more that the whole "moving comic book" medium that their art direction is based upon is super normalized in how the genders should be represented, to the point where even for races where it doesn't make sense for the males to be burly he-men and the women to be curvy sexpots, they still are

also, there's the female night elf dance (which is based on the famous Alizee clips that were zooming around the Internet in the early 00s):

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

copying this over from the other thread because i thinks it a very interesting and good point to think abt

i wonder if part of it is because games are often a solo experience (though not always of course) whereas movies, at some point in their release cycle at least, are experienced collectively? in other words, because the casual racism is easier for people to swallow by themselves as opposed to in a group?

― 1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:29 PM (25 minutes ago)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

okay lol @ Mario being so mainstreamed that all of the "MAMA MIA" and "IT'SA ME, MARIO!" interjections don't even register as caricature anymore

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

i disagree w/ ZS's assertion esp bc i think the most racist/sexist behavior re video games happens in their most collective experience (multiplayer)

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I think this is pretty easily chalked up to creators pandering to (and being born of) the overwhelmingly 15-35 male demographics of AAA game buyers. The women and men who like and play AAA games but don't like sexualized representations of women in these games (and also comic books) make their voices heard but the majority of the audience would be bummed if you took away their lizardwoman tits.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

duh DJP you cant be racist against italians anymore, the godfather fixed that forever

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

did Mario ever say those lines or are we forcing racism on the poor guy? are we blaming his video game char for his cartoon version? important issues in my work day

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

"it's a-me, Mario!" the sound of booting up Super Mario 64 iirc.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol gg then

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

fyi listening to that may drive you crazy

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

the Mario Kart one is also insane

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

"So long, gay Bowser!"

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

Alot of this sounds like hes sleeping with someone. *barfs*
PeachyzeldagirlXD 3 weeks ago

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Do u say "ravioli!" when u fuckin?

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

did they really get roberto benigni to do the voices?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Everybody knows that Mario's wet dreams involve pasta and Bowser.

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

I worked at a gaming geek/comic book store for a couple years and this kind of stuff is everywhere. the idea that females without massive bobs existed at some point is lost on these people

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha awesome typo

"I like the writer but does the artist have to make every female character's hair so big?"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'ma luigi. nambar wan.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh man my old college roommate used to say "yeah, peach has got it" in a squeaky ass voice all the time. mad nostalgia.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

I never played the Horde side of WoW with any regularity so I didn't realize that the trolls were all Jamaican until way way late in the game when I started a troll character because I was bored. Reading the quest text for most of the starter area was PAINFUL.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's a ton of gender normalization in movies too, yeah?

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

im def not saying that movies are immune but i dont think you can make the argument that movies even approach the overt O_O aspects of video games wrt either of these

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

(I also used to play WoW with the sound off and either Vent or iTunes going, so I missed a good chunk of the voice acting)

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh yeah for sure, and movies as a genre are much more mature. but it seems to me that anytime you throw a lot of money at a project (either a blockbuster movie or a blockbuster game) you're gonna end up w/ some pretty unreasonable gender representations

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

I find him really obnoxious and unhelpful, overall. Also he is delusional about how good a punter he was.

polyphonic, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:02 (Yesterday) Permalink

punter is the ultimate nfl nobody

lag∞n, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:02 (Yesterday) Permalink

Adobe is falling for this now?
I have friends there and they will be hearing from me harrumph

resulting post (rogermexico.), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:05 (Yesterday) Permalink

i want to know what chris kluwe did to poly to get him so mad

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:06 (Yesterday) Permalink

filled up my twitter feed with his inane thoughts

polyphonic, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:08 (Yesterday) Permalink

yeah that'll do it

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:10 (Yesterday) Permalink

cmon poly let us have one likeable viking/exviking, its been rough up here recently

Ass Tchotchke! (jjjusten), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:10 (Yesterday) Permalink

he's a nice guy!

u2 removal machine (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:10 (Yesterday) Permalink

yeah i met him a couple times via music shit and hes a super nice dude

Ass Tchotchke! (jjjusten), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:11 (Yesterday) Permalink

Alan Page is one of the coolest players ever

polyphonic, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:11 (Yesterday) Permalink

i like kluwe and i am glad someone is being that guy but i wish he were better at it

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:12 (Yesterday) Permalink

should we be talking about Sportsball in the Gamer place

polyphonic, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:13 (Yesterday) Permalink

i keep waiting for advanced analytics types to start rallying around punters as incredibly important and worthy of left-tackle type money but i havent seen it yet.

ryan, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:13 (Yesterday) Permalink

on a per play basis you could make a case but too few plays overall

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:14 (Yesterday) Permalink

i've often wondered how self-styled alpha males get past the apparent paradox that whining about feminism is sorta *deeply un-masculine*

for "gamers" it almost seems as if they see themselves under assault on both sides of that continuum--in a way that strikes me as (and this is obvious) adolescent "mom and dad can't tell me what to do" stuff in the extreme. growing up is hard, etc.

ryan, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:23 (Yesterday) Permalink

4chan video games board banned all gg chat a while back but people keep bringing it up and getting legitimate (word used v lightly) threads locked down so now there appear to be a/multiple bot/bots (or just really bored humans) that spam threads with pro/anti gg stuff which often results in locks and the meta shitposting has started to spiral and every couple threads you'll see a desperate comment like "i just want to talk about video games pls all of you just go away" and it is all very lol

i'd rather be arrested by you folks than by anybody i know (art), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:27 (Yesterday) Permalink

(honestly I started paying attention to Kluwe when it came out that he played WoW and was in a competitive raiding guild)

💪😈⚠️ (DJP), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:28 (Yesterday) Permalink

maybe we need to things up whenever GamerGate gets mentioned here

Barry Gordy (Neil S), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 19:32 (Yesterday) Permalink

loooooooool

lag∞n, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 20:26 (Yesterday) Permalink

whaaaaaaaaaaaaat

Clay, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 20:28 (Yesterday) Permalink

prob fake but w/e

lag∞n, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 20:32 (Yesterday) Permalink

i don't see that in his timeline

polyphonic, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 20:33 (Yesterday) Permalink

he did reiterate his claim that rape helped kobe bryant's brand tho

polyphonic, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 20:34 (Yesterday) Permalink

spitting fire verses as per typical

lag∞n, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 20:35 (Yesterday) Permalink

wish that was real. can easily imagine whoever skip bayless's agent or pr guy or whatever being like:

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 20:36 (Yesterday) Permalink

lol

lag∞n, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 20:37 (Yesterday) Permalink

I don't understand Chuck and Marvin Berry's relationship

polyphonic, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 20:38 (Yesterday) Permalink

had to make sure that was not real, and now, lmao

goole, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 20:40 (Yesterday) Permalink

i was wondering if the tweet from this a.m. would be topped. and it was!

https://twitter.com/i_z_e_l_s/status/524605012245499904

(heavy tw: discussion of rape by possibly the msot clueless dipshit i've come across in this whole mess)

goole, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:00 (Yesterday) Permalink

can u plz explainer whats goin on w @rainnwilson btw

lag∞n, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:06 (Yesterday) Permalink

lag∞n, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:07 (Yesterday) Permalink

i thought he was hiring someone who copped a plea to assault to avoid a rape charge? maybe my reading comp is poor

Chimp Arsons, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:12 (Yesterday) Permalink

ya that was my impression too but want more infos

lag∞n, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:14 (Yesterday) Permalink

i know goole knows

lag∞n, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:14 (Yesterday) Permalink

rainn wilson's new landscaper is kobe

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:16 (Yesterday) Permalink

lol all i know is from weird twitter shitting on him all day, i haven't read the court stenography or anything

goole, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:17 (Yesterday) Permalink

skip bayless got a sitcom deal, idk

goole, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:17 (Yesterday) Permalink

gdamn it

lag∞n, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:18 (Yesterday) Permalink

he is doing some vine tv show right, i assume it is related to that. america's funniest home vines.

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:19 (Yesterday) Permalink

lol he hired nash josh

lag∞n, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:20 (Yesterday) Permalink

weirded out by how oblivious these guys are to the fact that no sane human or institution that isn't already part of their thing is going take it seriously at at this point, they're just locked into this weird loop of repeating the same set of talking points to people who are never going to believe them

every time a new piece pops up from a media outlet basically saying "we are completely done with this shit, bye" you get the inevitable upvoted comments from recently created accounts being all "goodness, it seems there's really been a misunderstanding - let me reassure you that that is not what gamergate is about :)" and it's like five year olds trying to fool grown adults and thinking it might work

I guess ad guys for companies being twitchily risk-averse and pulling ads in response to e-mail spam would muddy the water a bit and make them feel like they have real power/moral force but surely sooner or later someone's gonna get the memo to the advertisiers that caving into hate campaigns from risible manbabies is a worse look for them

Dadjokke (Sgt. Biscuits), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:32 (Yesterday) Permalink

that izel guy dismissing several people explaining to him what "acquittal" means as a "SJW gambit" is...something

Dadjokke (Sgt. Biscuits), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:33 (Yesterday) Permalink

its the same story as bitcoin.. bitcoin cannot fail it can only be failed!

panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:41 (Yesterday) Permalink

wish we could just go back to laughing at bitcoin ppl

Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 22:52 (Yesterday) Permalink

rip

lag∞n, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 23:00 (Yesterday) Permalink

coin

lag∞n, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 23:00 (Yesterday) Permalink

afaik we can still laugh at Bitcoin people

💪😈⚠️ (DJP), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 23:11 (Yesterday) Permalink

#notallbitcoiners

EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 23:31 (Yesterday) Permalink

lol @ that adam baldwin playing card joke upthread, i always love it when @MomsAgainstGam's followers stick around to steadfastly gaslight everyone who takes the bait:

you little affront to god (reddening), Wednesday, 22 October 2014 02:35 (2 hours ago) Permalink


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