Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

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High hopes for this turning out a smart and civil discussion like the horror films why not thread, deep fears that it will descend into madness fyi

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:32 (four years ago) Permalink

i think it's bc games are competitive experiences and competition brings out the worst in human beings

― Mordy, Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:30 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:34 (four years ago) Permalink

idk i obv have some pretty strong concerns abt that wrt online FPS screaming idiots and the like, but i dont think that has as much to do with the games themselves (i mean obv its part of the experience but it isnt internalized content per se)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:36 (four years ago) Permalink

some of it is cultural differences/lack of knowledge between Asia and the West.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:39 (four years ago) Permalink

do you guys mean disgusting behavior in players or the games?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:40 (four years ago) Permalink

i mean ive heard some commentary on this but a lot of the big arguments are a little facile and outsidery to me, like the idea that games are a juvenilized form of entertainment and thus more prone to juvenile thinking

xxpost yeah bnw that is def one of the things that i think factors in

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (four years ago) Permalink

the sexism is definitely audience targeting. and it is depressingly dead on.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (four years ago) Permalink

i am talking abt the games, not the players, but obv there is going to be some reflection there wrt consumers influencing content etc

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:42 (four years ago) Permalink

it's not just that consumers influence the content, it's also that game creators are gamers themselves and exist in the gaming community. they play on the same multiplayer servers and their customers, they're influenced by the same games...

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (four years ago) Permalink

-demographics.
-the fact that computer games, for fairly obvious reasons, attract less sophisticated writers than other forms of media.

zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (four years ago) Permalink

was the new deus ex french? or french canadian? because thats def one of the weirdest examples of this - fairly thoughtful intellectual game and then whoa whats up with this homeless lady

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:44 (four years ago) Permalink

to be perjorative a bit, nerds' poor socialization extends to society broadly, not just socializing. and they get reeeaaally defensive when called on their shit.

combined with a post-rockstar "it's supposed to be funny!" attitude w/r/t this kind of shit and it's a toxic brew

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:45 (four years ago) Permalink

A big hook for many games is "by gamers, for gamers"; this means almost by design that a good chunk of regressive content is going to be present in the games since they are operating in this feedback loop where the social environment these games are created in is normalized to be incredibly shitty in a lot of ways.

For all of the equality for things like, say, making your character be male or female is a cosmetic change that doesn't affect your stats, you have things like all of the female iterations of the WoW races being as close to "busty cutie-pie" as the baseline skin will allow them to be (the undead and dwarf races are particularly comical re: this, but even the frickin' minotaur race has "sexy" female forms with cow heads).

xposts basically covered all of this but I am inflicting the concept of sexy cows on y'all anyway

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:46 (four years ago) Permalink

some of it is sort of legacy racism from the earlier forms of media that fed VGs? D&D, action movies, etc

xp oh god WoW haha

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:47 (four years ago) Permalink

how do you guys rank sexism/racism by systems? nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:48 (four years ago) Permalink

also, game content really not as important as ludic components (the best story can just barely redeem a game with terrible gameplay sometimes, while tons of beloved games have amazing gameplay and no story to speak of, or a really shitty story), so it's less important to designers to get stuff right with the content - which is where the racist/sexist stuff primarily exists

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (four years ago) Permalink

I mean... come on

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (four years ago) Permalink

actually feel like WoW held back a lot compared to some other games.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:50 (four years ago) Permalink

Skyrim has the same sort of issues. Like ... why does my lizard lady have tits.

polyphonic, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:51 (four years ago) Permalink

nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

have you ever played a Mario game??? also Punchout lololol.

zappi, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:52 (four years ago) Permalink

theyre not?

Lamp, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (four years ago) Permalink

mario racist against turtles?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (four years ago) Permalink

well sure, WoW isn't like Duke Nukem, but the point is more that the whole "moving comic book" medium that their art direction is based upon is super normalized in how the genders should be represented, to the point where even for races where it doesn't make sense for the males to be burly he-men and the women to be curvy sexpots, they still are

also, there's the female night elf dance (which is based on the famous Alizee clips that were zooming around the Internet in the early 00s):

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (four years ago) Permalink

copying this over from the other thread because i thinks it a very interesting and good point to think abt

i wonder if part of it is because games are often a solo experience (though not always of course) whereas movies, at some point in their release cycle at least, are experienced collectively? in other words, because the casual racism is easier for people to swallow by themselves as opposed to in a group?

― 1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:29 PM (25 minutes ago)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (four years ago) Permalink

okay lol @ Mario being so mainstreamed that all of the "MAMA MIA" and "IT'SA ME, MARIO!" interjections don't even register as caricature anymore

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (four years ago) Permalink

i disagree w/ ZS's assertion esp bc i think the most racist/sexist behavior re video games happens in their most collective experience (multiplayer)

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (four years ago) Permalink

Yeah I think this is pretty easily chalked up to creators pandering to (and being born of) the overwhelmingly 15-35 male demographics of AAA game buyers. The women and men who like and play AAA games but don't like sexualized representations of women in these games (and also comic books) make their voices heard but the majority of the audience would be bummed if you took away their lizardwoman tits.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (four years ago) Permalink

duh DJP you cant be racist against italians anymore, the godfather fixed that forever

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:58 (four years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:59 (four years ago) Permalink

did Mario ever say those lines or are we forcing racism on the poor guy? are we blaming his video game char for his cartoon version? important issues in my work day

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:00 (four years ago) Permalink

"it's a-me, Mario!" the sound of booting up Super Mario 64 iirc.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:01 (four years ago) Permalink

haha

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (four years ago) Permalink

lol gg then

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (four years ago) Permalink

fyi listening to that may drive you crazy

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:03 (four years ago) Permalink

the Mario Kart one is also insane

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (four years ago) Permalink

"So long, gay Bowser!"

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (four years ago) Permalink

Alot of this sounds like hes sleeping with someone. *barfs*
PeachyzeldagirlXD 3 weeks ago

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:06 (four years ago) Permalink

Do u say "ravioli!" when u fuckin?

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (four years ago) Permalink

did they really get roberto benigni to do the voices?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (four years ago) Permalink

Everybody knows that Mario's wet dreams involve pasta and Bowser.

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:08 (four years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

I worked at a gaming geek/comic book store for a couple years and this kind of stuff is everywhere. the idea that females without massive bobs existed at some point is lost on these people

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:11 (four years ago) Permalink

haha awesome typo

"I like the writer but does the artist have to make every female character's hair so big?"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:12 (four years ago) Permalink

i'ma luigi. nambar wan.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:14 (four years ago) Permalink

oh man my old college roommate used to say "yeah, peach has got it" in a squeaky ass voice all the time. mad nostalgia.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (four years ago) Permalink

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (four years ago) Permalink

I never played the Horde side of WoW with any regularity so I didn't realize that the trolls were all Jamaican until way way late in the game when I started a troll character because I was bored. Reading the quest text for most of the starter area was PAINFUL.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (four years ago) Permalink

there's a ton of gender normalization in movies too, yeah?

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (four years ago) Permalink

im def not saying that movies are immune but i dont think you can make the argument that movies even approach the overt O_O aspects of video games wrt either of these

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:18 (four years ago) Permalink

(I also used to play WoW with the sound off and either Vent or iTunes going, so I missed a good chunk of the voice acting)

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:19 (four years ago) Permalink

oh yeah for sure, and movies as a genre are much more mature. but it seems to me that anytime you throw a lot of money at a project (either a blockbuster movie or a blockbuster game) you're gonna end up w/ some pretty unreasonable gender representations

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (four years ago) Permalink

he posted some pro-GG bullshit a few months back iirc then backed off and claimed he was being ironic

Noodle Vague, Monday, 23 May 2016 17:37 (four months ago) Permalink

Why do I read the comments? It's a sickness.

inside, skeletons are always inside, that's obvious. (dowd), Monday, 23 May 2016 17:45 (four months ago) Permalink

ogmor, at least he's heartbroken and not thinking "hmm, if notch says it..."

μpright mammal (mh), Monday, 23 May 2016 18:15 (four months ago) Permalink

he posted some pro-GG bullshit a few months back iirc then backed off and claimed he was being ironic

― Noodle Vague, Monday, May 23, 2016 6:37 PM (45 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yup, discussed upthread.

it's getting ott in here / so take off all your clothes (stevie), Monday, 23 May 2016 18:25 (four months ago) Permalink

xp oh indeed, he's a freakishly good kid and deserves a better class of celebrity

ogmor, Monday, 23 May 2016 20:07 (four months ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

Ugh, this is kinda the other way around, but shows how net harassment can spread to other media. German tv-channel RTL has been showing revenge porn images of Danish woman Emma Holten without her knowledge. And they seem really unresponsive about it. It's incredible that major tv-channels would violate people in this way.

Frederik B, Friday, 17 June 2016 10:37 (three months ago) Permalink

this is good

R.I.P. Haram-bae, the good posts goy (s.clover), Tuesday, 21 June 2016 03:45 (three months ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

Nhex, Monday, 11 July 2016 19:30 (two months ago) Permalink

cool that capcom is finding new ways to be dumb as fuck with a seven-year-old game plagued from the start with accusations of racism

brexit through the rift shock (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 11 July 2016 19:42 (two months ago) Permalink

feel like i'm missing something

a simba man (Will M.), Monday, 11 July 2016 19:49 (two months ago) Permalink

I'm with Will, someone please translate that cover image for me

mh, Monday, 11 July 2016 19:56 (two months ago) Permalink

yeah what am i looking at here

goole, Monday, 11 July 2016 19:56 (two months ago) Permalink

spot the difference

brexit through the rift shock (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 11 July 2016 20:08 (two months ago) Permalink

lol I don't know if I should be more annoyed by the palette swap on the female character or relieved that I have successfully ignored the RE franchise to the point where I didn't notice it

http://porno (DJP), Monday, 11 July 2016 20:10 (two months ago) Permalink

yeah, I've never really gotten into the series, is it that she's not supposed to be super white lady

mh, Monday, 11 July 2016 20:12 (two months ago) Permalink

my first reaction as someone who leaves television on to clean the house while movies play was "well, that's not milla jovovich"

mh, Monday, 11 July 2016 20:13 (two months ago) Permalink

lol same

http://porno (DJP), Monday, 11 July 2016 20:15 (two months ago) Permalink

Ah, it's more that they've replaced Sheva with Jill Valentine though? I mean, she is in the game, but she's not the co-star and Sheva is.

Andrew Farrell, Monday, 11 July 2016 22:48 (two months ago) Permalink

So I just watched the bf play MGS Phantom Pain, and the character Quiet made me really cranky. The fact they wrote a pathetic "story" around why she HAD to be dressed in a bikini so small her tits were falling out of it, and torn stockings and nothing else, just made it worse. not to mention the gratuitous tit wobbling and cleavage-in-face leaning over constantly when in the chopper. The fuck, japan?

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 00:58 (two months ago) Permalink

yeah that's kojima for you. he loves randomly naked women as much as he loves long, pointless elevator rides.

the event dynamics of power asynchrony (rushomancy), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 01:02 (two months ago) Permalink

And long pointless cut scenes uruuuuuuuggghhh

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 01:10 (two months ago) Permalink

iirc you should be out earning rent money instead of watching him play games

(grrrr from 16000 km)

mookieproof, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 01:47 (two months ago) Permalink

or he should lol

mh, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 02:26 (two months ago) Permalink

*squeezes Quiet action figure*

mh, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 02:26 (two months ago) Permalink

iirc you should be out earning rent money instead of watching him play games

que? I work dammit!

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 02:54 (two months ago) Permalink

Are u srs about the action figure. Does her boobs inflate when you squish her.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 02:54 (two months ago) Permalink

no but they are squishy

mh, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 04:28 (two months ago) Permalink

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

brexit through the rift shock (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 09:25 (two months ago) Permalink

So creepy, I love it

Nhex, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 09:30 (two months ago) Permalink

so this happened

Twitter bans Breitbart's Milo Yiannopoulos for harassment
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-mn-twitter-milo-yiannopoulos-20160719-snap-story.html#nt=oft07a-3gp1

carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 20 July 2016 06:25 (two months ago) Permalink

Good!

how's life, Wednesday, 20 July 2016 10:33 (two months ago) Permalink

This wasn’t the first time Yiannopoulos has been subject to punitive measures on Twitter: Last year, his account lost its blue verification checkmark. In response, he complained to the White House about the supposed violation of his freedom of speech.

this fuckin guy

report your crimes to my burning ghost cock (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 20 July 2016 11:34 (two months ago) Permalink

access to twitter is not a fundamental human right

report your crimes to my burning ghost cock (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 20 July 2016 11:36 (two months ago) Permalink

'they banned me from starbucks because i kept asking them to write my name as 'shitcock mccunt' on my takeout cup!'

report your crimes to my burning ghost cock (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 20 July 2016 11:39 (two months ago) Permalink

I watched the whole thing and did a little dance when you posted that

mh, Wednesday, 20 July 2016 18:02 (two months ago) Permalink

my man

http://porno (DJP), Wednesday, 20 July 2016 18:43 (two months ago) Permalink

...hannity?

woke newt (stevie), Thursday, 21 July 2016 09:25 (two months ago) Permalink

I can decode "weaponized insincerity" but "structured ignorance" is a colorless green idea

El Tomboto, Sunday, 24 July 2016 04:49 (two months ago) Permalink

Structured ignorance = if this weren't true, there wouldn't be a couple of newspapers and a dozen blogs and a news TV channel (and a school textbook) that tells me it's true.

Andrew Farrell, Monday, 25 July 2016 00:28 (two months ago) Permalink

that needs another modifier (willful) imho but ok

El Tomboto, Monday, 25 July 2016 00:39 (two months ago) Permalink

http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/07/29/487832991/south-korea-is-contending-with-a-gamergate-of-its-own-over-a-t-shirt

http://www.themarysue.com/feminism-around-the-world-korean-voiceover-actress/

https://realkoreans.com/2016/01/08/korean-feminism-reins-in-the-collective-power-of-the-internet/

http://www.koreabang.com/2016/features/the-rise-of-radical-korean-feminist-community-megalia.html

Recent story about a voice actress being fired for wearing an ordinary feminist t-shirt but some are saying it's about the group who sell the shirts. A satiric feminist group that has done a lot of good but divided up into different splinter groups have been accused of all sorts of harassment, death threats, defending a paedophile, racism and outing homosexuals. Some say this is all satire or just lies spread by the extreme men's groups but the one about homosexuals seems to be true of some of the factions.
A lot of this stuff is in the comments, I haven't read it all closely so I don't know what to make of it all but if it is absurdly extreme satire that lots of people are misinterpreting, it seems like a really risky way to combat the men's groups and misogyny in general.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 1 August 2016 13:00 (one month ago) Permalink

one month passes...

xpost from current election thread:

Virtual reality Facebook billionaire bankrolled anti-Hillary meme club: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/22/palmer-luckey-the-facebook-billionaire-secretly-funding-trump-s-meme-machine.html
― mick signals, Thursday, September 22, 2016 9:30 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Nhex, Friday, 23 September 2016 06:45 (two days ago) Permalink

Hate these choads so much

tongue and cheek (stevie), Friday, 23 September 2016 09:52 (two days ago) Permalink

does being a tech millionaire make you a libertarian shitheel or do you need to be a libertarian shitheel to be a tech billionaire?

the 4channing of culture is genuinely fucking terrifying tbh

the devastation is very important to me (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 23 September 2016 10:28 (two days ago) Permalink

millionaire/billionaire confusion there but you know what i mean

the devastation is very important to me (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 23 September 2016 10:28 (two days ago) Permalink

its all about arrested development and permanent adolescence and hating women because you can't talk to one without shitting your pants, isn't it? and having no knowledge of anything beyond your computer monitor.

tongue and cheek (stevie), Friday, 23 September 2016 11:16 (two days ago) Permalink

a lifetime's worth of resentment being acted out bc they have money basically

carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 23 September 2016 21:22 (two days ago) Permalink


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