Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

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High hopes for this turning out a smart and civil discussion like the horror films why not thread, deep fears that it will descend into madness fyi

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:32 (five years ago) Permalink

i think it's bc games are competitive experiences and competition brings out the worst in human beings

โ€• Mordy, Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:30 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:34 (five years ago) Permalink

idk i obv have some pretty strong concerns abt that wrt online FPS screaming idiots and the like, but i dont think that has as much to do with the games themselves (i mean obv its part of the experience but it isnt internalized content per se)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:36 (five years ago) Permalink

some of it is cultural differences/lack of knowledge between Asia and the West.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:39 (five years ago) Permalink

do you guys mean disgusting behavior in players or the games?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:40 (five years ago) Permalink

i mean ive heard some commentary on this but a lot of the big arguments are a little facile and outsidery to me, like the idea that games are a juvenilized form of entertainment and thus more prone to juvenile thinking

xxpost yeah bnw that is def one of the things that i think factors in

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (five years ago) Permalink

the sexism is definitely audience targeting. and it is depressingly dead on.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (five years ago) Permalink

i am talking abt the games, not the players, but obv there is going to be some reflection there wrt consumers influencing content etc

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:42 (five years ago) Permalink

it's not just that consumers influence the content, it's also that game creators are gamers themselves and exist in the gaming community. they play on the same multiplayer servers and their customers, they're influenced by the same games...

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (five years ago) Permalink

-demographics.
-the fact that computer games, for fairly obvious reasons, attract less sophisticated writers than other forms of media.

zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (five years ago) Permalink

was the new deus ex french? or french canadian? because thats def one of the weirdest examples of this - fairly thoughtful intellectual game and then whoa whats up with this homeless lady

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:44 (five years ago) Permalink

to be perjorative a bit, nerds' poor socialization extends to society broadly, not just socializing. and they get reeeaaally defensive when called on their shit.

combined with a post-rockstar "it's supposed to be funny!" attitude w/r/t this kind of shit and it's a toxic brew

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:45 (five years ago) Permalink

A big hook for many games is "by gamers, for gamers"; this means almost by design that a good chunk of regressive content is going to be present in the games since they are operating in this feedback loop where the social environment these games are created in is normalized to be incredibly shitty in a lot of ways.

For all of the equality for things like, say, making your character be male or female is a cosmetic change that doesn't affect your stats, you have things like all of the female iterations of the WoW races being as close to "busty cutie-pie" as the baseline skin will allow them to be (the undead and dwarf races are particularly comical re: this, but even the frickin' minotaur race has "sexy" female forms with cow heads).

xposts basically covered all of this but I am inflicting the concept of sexy cows on y'all anyway

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:46 (five years ago) Permalink

some of it is sort of legacy racism from the earlier forms of media that fed VGs? D&D, action movies, etc

xp oh god WoW haha

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:47 (five years ago) Permalink

how do you guys rank sexism/racism by systems? nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:48 (five years ago) Permalink

also, game content really not as important as ludic components (the best story can just barely redeem a game with terrible gameplay sometimes, while tons of beloved games have amazing gameplay and no story to speak of, or a really shitty story), so it's less important to designers to get stuff right with the content - which is where the racist/sexist stuff primarily exists

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (five years ago) Permalink

I mean... come on

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (five years ago) Permalink

actually feel like WoW held back a lot compared to some other games.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:50 (five years ago) Permalink

Skyrim has the same sort of issues. Like ... why does my lizard lady have tits.

polyphonic, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:51 (five years ago) Permalink

nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

have you ever played a Mario game??? also Punchout lololol.

zappi, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:52 (five years ago) Permalink

theyre not?

Lamp, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (five years ago) Permalink

mario racist against turtles?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (five years ago) Permalink

well sure, WoW isn't like Duke Nukem, but the point is more that the whole "moving comic book" medium that their art direction is based upon is super normalized in how the genders should be represented, to the point where even for races where it doesn't make sense for the males to be burly he-men and the women to be curvy sexpots, they still are

also, there's the female night elf dance (which is based on the famous Alizee clips that were zooming around the Internet in the early 00s):

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (five years ago) Permalink

copying this over from the other thread because i thinks it a very interesting and good point to think abt

i wonder if part of it is because games are often a solo experience (though not always of course) whereas movies, at some point in their release cycle at least, are experienced collectively? in other words, because the casual racism is easier for people to swallow by themselves as opposed to in a group?

โ€• 1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:29 PM (25 minutes ago)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (five years ago) Permalink

okay lol @ Mario being so mainstreamed that all of the "MAMA MIA" and "IT'SA ME, MARIO!" interjections don't even register as caricature anymore

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (five years ago) Permalink

i disagree w/ ZS's assertion esp bc i think the most racist/sexist behavior re video games happens in their most collective experience (multiplayer)

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah I think this is pretty easily chalked up to creators pandering to (and being born of) the overwhelmingly 15-35 male demographics of AAA game buyers. The women and men who like and play AAA games but don't like sexualized representations of women in these games (and also comic books) make their voices heard but the majority of the audience would be bummed if you took away their lizardwoman tits.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (five years ago) Permalink

duh DJP you cant be racist against italians anymore, the godfather fixed that forever

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:58 (five years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:59 (five years ago) Permalink

did Mario ever say those lines or are we forcing racism on the poor guy? are we blaming his video game char for his cartoon version? important issues in my work day

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:00 (five years ago) Permalink

"it's a-me, Mario!" the sound of booting up Super Mario 64 iirc.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:01 (five years ago) Permalink

haha

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (five years ago) Permalink

lol gg then

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (five years ago) Permalink

fyi listening to that may drive you crazy

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:03 (five years ago) Permalink

the Mario Kart one is also insane

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (five years ago) Permalink

"So long, gay Bowser!"

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (five years ago) Permalink

Alot of๏ปฟ this sounds like hes sleeping with someone. *barfs*
PeachyzeldagirlXD 3 weeks ago

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:06 (five years ago) Permalink

Do u say "ravioli!" when u fuckin?

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (five years ago) Permalink

did they really get roberto benigni to do the voices?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (five years ago) Permalink

Everybody knows that Mario's wet dreams involve pasta and Bowser.

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:08 (five years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

I worked at a gaming geek/comic book store for a couple years and this kind of stuff is everywhere. the idea that females without massive bobs existed at some point is lost on these people

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:11 (five years ago) Permalink

haha awesome typo

"I like the writer but does the artist have to make every female character's hair so big?"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:12 (five years ago) Permalink

i'ma luigi. nambar wan.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:14 (five years ago) Permalink

oh man my old college roommate used to say "yeah, peach has got it" in a squeaky ass voice all the time. mad nostalgia.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (five years ago) Permalink

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (five years ago) Permalink

I never played the Horde side of WoW with any regularity so I didn't realize that the trolls were all Jamaican until way way late in the game when I started a troll character because I was bored. Reading the quest text for most of the starter area was PAINFUL.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (five years ago) Permalink

there's a ton of gender normalization in movies too, yeah?

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (five years ago) Permalink

im def not saying that movies are immune but i dont think you can make the argument that movies even approach the overt O_O aspects of video games wrt either of these

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:18 (five years ago) Permalink

(I also used to play WoW with the sound off and either Vent or iTunes going, so I missed a good chunk of the voice acting)

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:19 (five years ago) Permalink

oh yeah for sure, and movies as a genre are much more mature. but it seems to me that anytime you throw a lot of money at a project (either a blockbuster movie or a blockbuster game) you're gonna end up w/ some pretty unreasonable gender representations

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (five years ago) Permalink

i think they were too shocked to retort (and they're not those kinds of ppl anyway) - fwiw they did not purchase a car from him

Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:07 (three months ago) Permalink

my wife and i have a friend who said something about not wanting to be "jew'd down", and my wife chalked it up to something akin to using "gyp", but we both agreed that it's insane to actually say that, even unconsciously imo. but our friend, she's also from another part of the country where it might be extremely common. i dunno where it's common, i never heard it growing up around me (i heard other reprehensible shit) so it still shocks me.

nomar, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:10 (three months ago) Permalink

isn't gyp a slur too tho

adam, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:19 (three months ago) Permalink

yes don't use it

Mordy, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:20 (three months ago) Permalink

I think that was nomar's point? ie it's a slur but an unconscious one that a bunch of people who use it don't actually interrogate to notice what they're actually saying (which is insane but also how part and parcel of the unreliable narrative/selective memory ppl use to convince themselves that 100% of the time they are good ppl)

ornate orchestral arrangements (DJP), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:21 (three months ago) Permalink

remember when jaymc said "coon's age" in that one thread

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:31 (three months ago) Permalink

really we just need a meme drive to purge all those phrases and replace them with "saxophone"

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:35 (three months ago) Permalink

Yeah, it's in this weird zone where it's absolutely a slur - I don't use it, I call it out when I hear it, and I'd expect say an ilxor not to use it. But I expect that 95+% of the people who use it (a) have no idea it's a slur (b) have no idea it's even short for "Gypsy" (c) have no idea "Gypsy" refers to a specific ethnic group that still exists in the world and not just in vaguely-remembered childhood tales or romanticized pop songs.

All those things need to be corrected obviously - similar to lots of American idioms that are descended from racist slurs and are long overdue for being re-examined and purged from the language. But still a little different from, say, my late father, who was brought up to be specifically suspicious of present-day Gypsies, that they would steal your stuff and that's why you should put valuable things in the trunk before you leave the house and not when you arrive at your destination, etc.

tales of a scorched-earth nothing (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:41 (three months ago) Permalink

the difference being that large portions of the US have no no cultural understanding that "gypped" (people even write it as "jipped") has anything to do with romani people, and people use "gypsy" as some sort of romanticized word for someone who's somewhat nomadic, not even in a negative way

there's no cultural disconnect from "jew'd", it's all right there

mh ๐Ÿ˜, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:47 (three months ago) Permalink

xp to DC saying my point

mh ๐Ÿ˜, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:47 (three months ago) Permalink

removed from the rain drops and drop tops of experience (ulysses), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:50 (three months ago) Permalink

It reminds me of the whole south park comparison -- paradoxically, I go into full-on stereotype mode when I see news of these video game/youtube idiots throwing out racist crap because I am sure that 2/3 of them have no life experience outside of video games. They go to a very socially homogenous school/workplace, go to some clothing/food/supply superstore like Target or Wal-Mart in their exurb/suburb and then going back to play more video games and yell racial slurs online. Because they only have a vague idea of a human cultural experience that doesn't involve the narrow slice they've been served up, and it's like a bizarro world monoculture

mh ๐Ÿ˜, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 18:56 (three months ago) Permalink

the difference being that large portions of the US have no no cultural understanding that "gypped" (people even write it as "jipped") has anything to do with romani people, and people use "gypsy" as some sort of romanticized word for someone who's somewhat nomadic, not even in a negative way

there's no cultural disconnect from "jew'd", it's all right there

This is why I said it was insane.

ornate orchestral arrangements (DJP), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:42 (three months ago) Permalink

kinda surprised trump hasn't used it as a sign of his respect for the jewish people's negotiating prowess

mookieproof, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:48 (three months ago) Permalink

Do you think that figure is higher or lower than non-Youtubers?

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:48 (three months ago) Permalink

xp he's completely oblivious about nuance, so I'm sure he has

it's like that article about how the television show people had to get him to stop referring to lil jon as "uncle tom" -- it wasn't that he didn't know it was bad, it was that he thought it was funny he was saying a bad phrase, but it was also obvious he had absolutely no idea what an "uncle tom" was or any idea of context

mh ๐Ÿ˜, Tuesday, 14 February 2017 19:52 (three months ago) Permalink

PDP was running w the kind of schtick that has been South Park's bread and butter for decades. not just SP though, ironic racism is par for the course for edgy modern comedy, even progressive Colbert had his "ironic" asian/latin stereotypes as re-occurring gags. i think the joke is meant to be "We are so far past this stuff that it's absurdly beyond us (and kitschy) to indulge in archaic styles of exploitation". it is a form of privilege denial that makes one oblivious to the fact that they are just spreading more hate.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 16 February 2017 22:46 (three months ago) Permalink

that's what made Colbert doing it so much more egregious than SP or someone like PDP imo, he should've known better

Nhex, Thursday, 16 February 2017 22:50 (three months ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

former GameGrumps member JonTron turns out to be a white supremacist and a racist. starts talking about the greatness of America's "founding stock" despite having Hungarian and Iranian parents. tries to make an argument against immigration but then goes into black crime rates.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1352025

Einstein, Kazanga, Sitar (abanana), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 00:09 (two months ago) Permalink

gaming so white it turns nonwhite people white

mh ๐Ÿ˜, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 00:48 (two months ago) Permalink

that's really fuckin sad

Nhex, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 03:10 (two months ago) Permalink

no idea who the guy is but when real life becomes Shock Corridor it's like damn

Nhex, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 03:10 (two months ago) Permalink

ย i think the joke is meant to be "We are so far past this stuff that it's absurdly beyond us (and kitschy) to indulge in archaic styles of exploitation"


desperately want to remember my take on ironic racism which was even more cutting and incisive, but failing

0 / 0 (lukas), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 03:20 (two months ago) Permalink

do you need to be a shithead to be a gaming youtuber or does being a gaming youtuber turn you into a shithead?

i see pewdiepie has been doubling down on the nazi 'joeks' again too:

im a male feminist, i have a fleshlight just to eat it out (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 10:59 (two months ago) Permalink

the subject of milo came up at work yesterday and i spent a while trying to explain to a colleague what gamergate was and how milo used it as a vehicle to gain further notoriety. unsurprisingly she was nonplussed by the whole sorry affair and i was deeply disappointed to discover just how much info about gamergate i had retained :(

im a male feminist, i have a fleshlight just to eat it out (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 11:03 (two months ago) Permalink

I've retained too much weird conspiratorial shit. I was talking to a friend yesterday who explained a recent lunch she'd had with a retired ex-coworker. Apparently this woman launched into a series of conspiracies, one after the other, and completely believed it all -- billionaire/politician sex slave rings, local crime so bad she needed to carry a gun (she had a gun in her purse), and of course... chemtrails.

Where was this retired person getting her news, since she claimed the news media only reported lies? Youtube.

mh ๐Ÿ˜, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 14:13 (two months ago) Permalink

retired coworker otm

not even my mate ross king sniffed out this hot gossip (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 14:17 (two months ago) Permalink

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

not even my mate ross king sniffed out this hot gossip (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 14:17 (two months ago) Permalink

yeah if u ever scan t_d on reddit (pls don't do this) you'll usually find 2-3 links per fresh front page that are youtube clips. basically anyone can publish anything they want and as long as it's reinforcing the narrative somebody will believe it fully regardless of the absurdity of the claim. hell, kyrie irving believes the Earth is flat and he's frequently flying internationally and not falling off the edge of the world so idk what really is truth anyway

art, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 14:19 (two months ago) Permalink

http://kotaku.com/scumbags-harass-woman-for-working-on-mass-effect-andro-1793410647

Jesus Christ

Starting with the transformation of a gameโ€™s sometimes silly character animations into a conspiracy, and then later a scandal in which the data points waver between incomplete and meaningless, the cycle isnโ€™t new by this point.

SFTGFOP (El Tomboto), Sunday, 19 March 2017 11:39 (two months ago) Permalink

http://kotaku.com/underwhelming-gay-romance-options-in-mass-effect-andro-1793677330

Since it was released, Andromeda has been criticized about how it handles gay romance options, particularly for male characters. On neoGAF, Reddit, unofficial BioWare forums, and on Twitter, there are hundreds of pages of complaints, with many people accusing BioWare of treating gay romance as an โ€œafterthought.โ€

1staethyr, Monday, 27 March 2017 21:14 (two months ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

http://www.polygon.com/2017/4/20/15369210/palmer-luckey-trump-donation

sigh/lol

Nhex, Thursday, 20 April 2017 15:23 (one month ago) Permalink

so that's allowed here?

duped and used by my worst Miss U (President Keyes), Thursday, 20 April 2017 16:14 (one month ago) Permalink

imho no. please let's finish phasing out "aspie" on ILX.

long dark poptart of the rodeo (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 20 April 2017 16:16 (one month ago) Permalink

For reals, thought that was over before I went away so I could have a comeback

El Tomboto, Thursday, 20 April 2017 16:29 (one month ago) Permalink

all I really want to do is point at that post, point at the thread title, solemnly post "IRONY", then slowly fade into the background as the soundtrack crescendos with an ominous synth swell

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Thursday, 20 April 2017 16:30 (one month ago) Permalink

you are of course all correct - apologies

years of immersion in the seduction community (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 20 April 2017 16:32 (one month ago) Permalink

(the interesting thing about all of this is an argument I'm half-remembering from years ago where a bunch of neurotypical people were arguing that "aspie" was offensive and several posters on the spectrum were arguing "no, actually we like that name" and I was too confused/bemused by the whole thing to comment/participate aside from deciding that if someone was going to get offended if I used that word, I was better off not using it)

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Thursday, 20 April 2017 16:34 (one month ago) Permalink

appreciate it, bg. my big sister has asperger's so it's something that's come to strike a particular chord with me. not gonna put myself on a pedestal - it did not jump out to me in the years between when the word started circulating and when she found her diagnosis. a failure of my own empathic instincts and training for sure.

long dark poptart of the rodeo (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 20 April 2017 16:46 (one month ago) Permalink

chicken/egg situation there, lacking empathy makes it difficult to understand why it's a bad term, and people who qualify under that same umbrella often lack empathy

a landlocked exclave (mh ๐Ÿ˜), Thursday, 20 April 2017 16:48 (one month ago) Permalink

been working to get it out of my vocab irl and online tbh
and yes, i'm a bit ocd/spectrum-y myself so mh otm

Bobson Dugnutt (ulysses), Thursday, 20 April 2017 17:19 (one month ago) Permalink

anyway, you guys are missing the big pull-quote there:

Oculus co-founder Palmer Luckey donated $100,000 to President Trumpโ€™s inaugural celebrations through a shell company seemingly named after a time-traveling vehicle from role-playing game Chrono Trigger.

Bobson Dugnutt (ulysses), Thursday, 20 April 2017 17:49 (one month ago) Permalink

I don't think any of that is particularly surprising, tbh

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Thursday, 20 April 2017 17:52 (one month ago) Permalink

SPINAL FUNCTION

Bobson Dugnutt (ulysses), Thursday, 20 April 2017 17:53 (one month ago) Permalink

it's surprising that it happened in actual reality

ZEAL PALACE CORP

Nhex, Thursday, 20 April 2017 18:27 (one month ago) Permalink

not really, it's 2017 and these fuckers are seemingly everywhere. mostly because they're too vocal and the internet is omnipresent

a landlocked exclave (mh ๐Ÿ˜), Thursday, 20 April 2017 19:02 (one month ago) Permalink

Yeah, like I don't know how you can interact with gaming culture at large (or have followed the bitcoin saga, or watched any portion of the shenanigans that fuel Silicon Valley) and be surprised at this.

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Thursday, 20 April 2017 19:17 (one month ago) Permalink

but then again I've also been saying that comments sections are a bellwether for the country at large for years now so maybe I've just jaded myself into expecting shit like this and every instance of it is confirmation bias

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Thursday, 20 April 2017 19:19 (one month ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

So, I read Lindy West's fantastic Shrill yesterday, and I strongly recommend it for any number of reasons. But I thought of this thread because she discusses at length the backlash to her taking the position that rape jokes are generally not funny, and that stand-up comedy's male protestations of free speech and "equal opportunity offender"-ism mask and trivialize real harm in precisely the way patriarchal culture at large wants to minimize and erase rape and the experience of survivors (thus, such jokes can't even claim to be transgressive or shocking, not that that would be an excuse anyway). This all went down in 2013, a year before Gamergate, and the tactics, tone and avenues of the harassment campaign are all identical. I wouldn't be the first to connect the two sagas, but it did help turn some light bulbs on for me - at several points upthread I was most interested, in terms of armchair internet discourse analysis, in parsing out how GamerGate might show a particular translation of general misogyny through the particular tropes and life experiences of gamernerds.

I still don't think that's a dead end insofar as it might help in developing strategies to interrupt and redirect gamernerd culture in the long run. West writes hopefully about how teenaged stand-up comedy nerds might just maybe think about this issue differently when from the minute they're getting interested in the form, their heroes are willing to come out and say that rape jokes arent' funny --- reminded me of my reflection somewhere upthread that the anonymous writers of Usenet group FAQs probably helped shape my 12- and 13-year-old sense of how you're supposed to behave in a community generally and to interact with people you can't see specifically. But, seeing obvious patterns that line up between Gamergate and non-gamernerd developments otherwise identical in substances does make me think that the more useful common denominator is the language, behavior and values inculcated in white male culture generally and white male internet culture specifically. Again not a staggering revelation but put another way, I think the thread title question isn't wrong in its assumptions, but may be giving other forms of media a little too much credit.

โœ“ (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 14 May 2017 17:52 (two weeks ago) Permalink


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