Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

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High hopes for this turning out a smart and civil discussion like the horror films why not thread, deep fears that it will descend into madness fyi

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think it's bc games are competitive experiences and competition brings out the worst in human beings

― Mordy, Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:30 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

idk i obv have some pretty strong concerns abt that wrt online FPS screaming idiots and the like, but i dont think that has as much to do with the games themselves (i mean obv its part of the experience but it isnt internalized content per se)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

some of it is cultural differences/lack of knowledge between Asia and the West.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

do you guys mean disgusting behavior in players or the games?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

i mean ive heard some commentary on this but a lot of the big arguments are a little facile and outsidery to me, like the idea that games are a juvenilized form of entertainment and thus more prone to juvenile thinking

xxpost yeah bnw that is def one of the things that i think factors in

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

the sexism is definitely audience targeting. and it is depressingly dead on.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

i am talking abt the games, not the players, but obv there is going to be some reflection there wrt consumers influencing content etc

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's not just that consumers influence the content, it's also that game creators are gamers themselves and exist in the gaming community. they play on the same multiplayer servers and their customers, they're influenced by the same games...

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

-demographics.
-the fact that computer games, for fairly obvious reasons, attract less sophisticated writers than other forms of media.

zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

was the new deus ex french? or french canadian? because thats def one of the weirdest examples of this - fairly thoughtful intellectual game and then whoa whats up with this homeless lady

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

to be perjorative a bit, nerds' poor socialization extends to society broadly, not just socializing. and they get reeeaaally defensive when called on their shit.

combined with a post-rockstar "it's supposed to be funny!" attitude w/r/t this kind of shit and it's a toxic brew

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

A big hook for many games is "by gamers, for gamers"; this means almost by design that a good chunk of regressive content is going to be present in the games since they are operating in this feedback loop where the social environment these games are created in is normalized to be incredibly shitty in a lot of ways.

For all of the equality for things like, say, making your character be male or female is a cosmetic change that doesn't affect your stats, you have things like all of the female iterations of the WoW races being as close to "busty cutie-pie" as the baseline skin will allow them to be (the undead and dwarf races are particularly comical re: this, but even the frickin' minotaur race has "sexy" female forms with cow heads).

xposts basically covered all of this but I am inflicting the concept of sexy cows on y'all anyway

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

some of it is sort of legacy racism from the earlier forms of media that fed VGs? D&D, action movies, etc

xp oh god WoW haha

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

how do you guys rank sexism/racism by systems? nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

also, game content really not as important as ludic components (the best story can just barely redeem a game with terrible gameplay sometimes, while tons of beloved games have amazing gameplay and no story to speak of, or a really shitty story), so it's less important to designers to get stuff right with the content - which is where the racist/sexist stuff primarily exists

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

I mean... come on

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

actually feel like WoW held back a lot compared to some other games.

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

Skyrim has the same sort of issues. Like ... why does my lizard lady have tits.

polyphonic, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.

have you ever played a Mario game??? also Punchout lololol.

zappi, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

theyre not?

Lamp, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

mario racist against turtles?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

well sure, WoW isn't like Duke Nukem, but the point is more that the whole "moving comic book" medium that their art direction is based upon is super normalized in how the genders should be represented, to the point where even for races where it doesn't make sense for the males to be burly he-men and the women to be curvy sexpots, they still are

also, there's the female night elf dance (which is based on the famous Alizee clips that were zooming around the Internet in the early 00s):

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

copying this over from the other thread because i thinks it a very interesting and good point to think abt

i wonder if part of it is because games are often a solo experience (though not always of course) whereas movies, at some point in their release cycle at least, are experienced collectively? in other words, because the casual racism is easier for people to swallow by themselves as opposed to in a group?

― 1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:29 PM (25 minutes ago)

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

okay lol @ Mario being so mainstreamed that all of the "MAMA MIA" and "IT'SA ME, MARIO!" interjections don't even register as caricature anymore

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

i disagree w/ ZS's assertion esp bc i think the most racist/sexist behavior re video games happens in their most collective experience (multiplayer)

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I think this is pretty easily chalked up to creators pandering to (and being born of) the overwhelmingly 15-35 male demographics of AAA game buyers. The women and men who like and play AAA games but don't like sexualized representations of women in these games (and also comic books) make their voices heard but the majority of the audience would be bummed if you took away their lizardwoman tits.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

duh DJP you cant be racist against italians anymore, the godfather fixed that forever

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

did Mario ever say those lines or are we forcing racism on the poor guy? are we blaming his video game char for his cartoon version? important issues in my work day

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

"it's a-me, Mario!" the sound of booting up Super Mario 64 iirc.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol gg then

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

fyi listening to that may drive you crazy

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

the Mario Kart one is also insane

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

"So long, gay Bowser!"

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

Alot of this sounds like hes sleeping with someone. *barfs*
PeachyzeldagirlXD 3 weeks ago

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Do u say "ravioli!" when u fuckin?

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

did they really get roberto benigni to do the voices?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Everybody knows that Mario's wet dreams involve pasta and Bowser.

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

I worked at a gaming geek/comic book store for a couple years and this kind of stuff is everywhere. the idea that females without massive bobs existed at some point is lost on these people

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha awesome typo

"I like the writer but does the artist have to make every female character's hair so big?"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'ma luigi. nambar wan.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh man my old college roommate used to say "yeah, peach has got it" in a squeaky ass voice all the time. mad nostalgia.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

I never played the Horde side of WoW with any regularity so I didn't realize that the trolls were all Jamaican until way way late in the game when I started a troll character because I was bored. Reading the quest text for most of the starter area was PAINFUL.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's a ton of gender normalization in movies too, yeah?

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

im def not saying that movies are immune but i dont think you can make the argument that movies even approach the overt O_O aspects of video games wrt either of these

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

(I also used to play WoW with the sound off and either Vent or iTunes going, so I missed a good chunk of the voice acting)

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh yeah for sure, and movies as a genre are much more mature. but it seems to me that anytime you throw a lot of money at a project (either a blockbuster movie or a blockbuster game) you're gonna end up w/ some pretty unreasonable gender representations

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

god, that zoe quinn post was depressing, though.

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 13 January 2015 18:02 (1 week ago) Permalink

Yeah, really. Almost as depressing as the thought that this is still going on.

Kind of ironic that they are against 'Social Justice Warriors' and yet here is a big fanfic lineup of them all dressed up like.... warriors..... fighting for.... justice (ethics).... through social media....?

©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 13 January 2015 18:36 (1 week ago) Permalink

... why are there two different pandas
― Let me help you out Charlie XCX fan (DJP), Tuesday, January 13, 2015 11:10 AM

DIVERSITY
― bizarro gazzara, Tuesday, January 13, 2015 11:12 AM

lmao

wwhy shrek is piss (am0n), Tuesday, 13 January 2015 18:53 (1 week ago) Permalink

so good

celfie tucker 48 (s.clover), Tuesday, 13 January 2015 21:54 (1 week ago) Permalink

http://gamergatesings.bandcamp.com/album/gamergate-sings

goole, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 01:43 (1 week ago) Permalink

holy god

i am not listening to that but it has to be a poll

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 02:41 (1 week ago) Permalink

Why so much Johnny Cash

Nhex, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 02:56 (1 week ago) Permalink

Includes bonus tracks that were too shit for me to bother uploading here.
(replace "(dot)" with "." for you retards)

shmup....smug....shmub....shmug.... (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 03:26 (1 week ago) Permalink

life is probably too short for me to listen to this but here we go

shmup....smug....shmub....shmug.... (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 03:26 (1 week ago) Permalink

haha nerds cling to johnny cash so blatantly

linda cardellini (zachlyon), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 22:28 (1 week ago) Permalink

johnny cash and nightmare before christmas.

how's life, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 23:40 (1 week ago) Permalink

idgi

Nhex, Thursday, 15 January 2015 03:48 (1 week ago) Permalink

'Swatter' Gets Five Years Jailtime

http://kotaku.com/swatter-gets-five-years-jailtime-1679596068

©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 15 January 2015 17:02 (1 week ago) Permalink

"[RANT] GG supporters are the majority on twitter, on reddit, on comments sections in gaming news sites, on youtube, on comments sections of MSM news sites. (self.KotakuInAction)"

hmm.

max, Thursday, 15 January 2015 17:57 (1 week ago) Permalink

I'd say so. It's important to include "I don't support GG I'm just asking questions/taking into account both sides of the issue" as GG supporter. Even Neogaf - which seems like it has a high bar for entry to filter out trolls - is unable to have any threads on or near the topic because it quickly turns into dozens of pages of chaos, accusations, and smarmy links. It's like walking into a room full of people and they are all facing the wall, trying to win their own arguments.

©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 15 January 2015 18:44 (1 week ago) Permalink

"swatting" is bottom level humanity, jail time seems very appropriate

shmup....smug....shmub....shmug.... (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 15 January 2015 18:50 (1 week ago) Permalink

those are charges from years ago. a warning i guess but not gg related

goole, Thursday, 15 January 2015 19:20 (1 week ago) Permalink

that sentence feels too harsh to me but that might be cos of the impression i have of the prison system and its lack of rehabilitatory effect. wd've thought heavy community service time plus some kind of "don't be a selfish dick" education program wd be a better option?

Gombeen Dance Band (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 January 2015 19:27 (1 week ago) Permalink

He's in his 30s and already saving time for some sexual offences. Kinda feel this is not something he is going too change.

I am using your worlds, Thursday, 15 January 2015 19:30 (1 week ago) Permalink

i think the harshness is a way of saying "you wasted the state's money and put cops in potential danger" rather than "you tried to get the cops to kill someone"

goole, Thursday, 15 January 2015 19:30 (1 week ago) Permalink

Well some people spend more than that in jail for having a plant on them, some people spend less time for tanking the global financial system.

©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 15 January 2015 19:33 (1 week ago) Permalink

well tbf, prison industrial complex is a fucking atrocity i wouldn't wish on anyone so that's more of a knee jerk response than anything
"swatting" is subhuman activity is what i guess i'm saying

shmup....smug....shmub....shmug.... (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 15 January 2015 19:33 (1 week ago) Permalink

the sexual offences i wasn't aware of - don't know how that contextualizes the swatting but fair enough. it's not that i'd say this sentence was an outrage but i wish we had a broader range of imaginative alternatives to jail

Gombeen Dance Band (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 January 2015 19:36 (1 week ago) Permalink

we do but we don't officially recognize torture

Let me help you out Charlie XCX fan (DJP), Thursday, 15 January 2015 20:16 (1 week ago) Permalink

nightline did a sarkeesian segment

also it looks like they have a new target

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2sh55k/tyler_wilde_the_pc_gamer_writer_who_compared_the/cnphruv

goole, Thursday, 15 January 2015 22:48 (1 week ago) Permalink

"the PC Gamer writer who compared the 'PC masterrace' label to Nazism"

difficult listening hour, Thursday, 15 January 2015 23:10 (1 week ago) Permalink

fascism-againster, sex-haver

goole, Thursday, 15 January 2015 23:21 (1 week ago) Permalink

it looks like that dude did only previews and rephrasing of press releases for news pieces? I have no idea how these tools see that as corruption, when those are always fluff

valleys of your mind (mh), Friday, 16 January 2015 02:30 (1 week ago) Permalink

In fairness, "this preview provided by my girlfriend" is still an obvious declaration there.

This being GG, they still couldn't hit a open goal without fucking up - there were claims that the articles in the imgur were being deleted by PC Gaming, when ten seconds of Googling the titles found that they, er, weren't.

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 16 January 2015 12:04 (1 week ago) Permalink

chris kluwe reads a collection of milo's poetry, livetweets the horror: https://storify.com/athenahollow/chris-kluwe-and

bizarro gazzara, Friday, 16 January 2015 12:17 (1 week ago) Permalink

#Research (stevie), Friday, 16 January 2015 12:28 (1 week ago) Permalink

oh my god. that's amazing. didn't make it to the end.

how's life, Friday, 16 January 2015 12:38 (1 week ago) Permalink

deep cultural commentary

valleys of your mind (mh), Friday, 16 January 2015 14:46 (1 week ago) Permalink

"There isn't a line in the whole thing that isn't from somewhere else. That's obviously the point," said Yiannopoulos. "You actually, really believe that it could possibly be anything but a giant pisstake? That it could be 'deception'? Really?"

ah, the shia labeef defence

bizarro gazzara, Friday, 16 January 2015 14:57 (1 week ago) Permalink

When confronted with accusations of plagiarism on Twitter Yiannopoulos freely admitted that the collection was made up of other people's words, and that it was an example of "sampling" like in music.
"There isn't a line in the whole thing that isn't from somewhere else. That's obviously the point," said Yiannopoulos. "You actually, really believe that it could possibly be anything but a giant pisstake? That it could be 'deception'? Really?"

#Research (stevie), Friday, 16 January 2015 14:57 (1 week ago) Permalink

xp

#Research (stevie), Friday, 16 January 2015 14:58 (1 week ago) Permalink

Milo Andreas Wagner

Milo. Andreas. Wagner.

valleys of your mind (mh), Friday, 16 January 2015 14:58 (1 week ago) Permalink

This clown is so far gone, but sadly anyone who would still support him at this point is unlikely to be fazed by this, or anything.

Doctor Casino, Friday, 16 January 2015 15:00 (1 week ago) Permalink

if they bought andrew bleepblorp they'll buy this turd

#Research (stevie), Friday, 16 January 2015 15:07 (1 week ago) Permalink

Actually there's a perfectly reasonable tradition of bricolage, found content and recontextualisation in poetry, but none of that stops his own work from being unutterably offensive shite.

emil.y, Friday, 16 January 2015 15:11 (1 week ago) Permalink

actually, it's about ethics in terrible poetry

bizarro gazzara, Friday, 16 January 2015 15:19 (1 week ago) Permalink

Milo. Andreas. Wagner.

pronounced vahgner, one hopes

mookieproof, Friday, 16 January 2015 15:22 (1 week ago) Permalink

Vahgner, Max. VAHGNER.

#Research (stevie), Friday, 16 January 2015 15:50 (1 week ago) Permalink

vah-nyare

qualx, Friday, 16 January 2015 16:16 (1 week ago) Permalink

i just literally cannot conceive of how anyone wouldn't think milo to be insufferably full of shit.

#Research (stevie), Friday, 16 January 2015 16:33 (1 week ago) Permalink

There's a lot of "but he's our asshole, full of shit though he may be" going on, though.

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 16 January 2015 16:48 (1 week ago) Permalink

He also self-published a book of poetry in 2007 called Eskimo Papoose under the name Milo Andreas Wagner, but it turns out that it may not be so much a work of poetry as a bizarre mix tape of Tori Amos lyrics.

The contents of the book were shared by former football punter Chris Kluwe

just step back and read these sentences, how amazing is this. pynchon can fuck off.

goole, Friday, 16 January 2015 19:12 (1 week ago) Permalink


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