King's Quest

i only played the first one and one similar one (maybe the first quest for glory??), but i remember it being impossible. all running from vultures in real time while trying to type "PICK UP ROCK" etc.

King's Quest and Monkey Island are always recommended as good adventure games, and I've played a few of each series, but they dont' do anything for me. Even when I figure out which pixel to click or which item to combine with another, there's no satisfaction. It's like doing your taxes correctly.

I think to an extent you had to be there - just seeing things animate on the screen counted as a reward in itself, like full-motion cutscenes in console RPGs. I do think the "doing your taxes correctly" thing is a pretty nice summary for the downside of these games, especially once you inevitably turn to the walkthrough...

Quest For Glory was considerably better b/c of the influence of tabletop roleplaying - there was combat, stats, and a rather amazing amount of nonlinearity for the time period. The nonlinearity could be a curse, as always (QFG 3 and 4 straddled the gap awkwardly) but it did make it feel less like being forced to act out a specified procedure.

I also just love the visual look of the first two games, which stand at just the right moment between pixel primitivism and Truecolor anything-goes backgrounds. They managed an amazing amount with what they had, there is personality in those games. Space Quest III and King's Quest IV also belong to this generation of the Sierra hardware. LucasArts managed to upgrade the tech while keeping the aesthetic, which I think has a lot to do with the appeal of Monkey Island, Loom, and the rest of their ilk. They're really beautiful games even now.

King's Quest-specific, as I said in the best games ever poll, III has huge sentimental value for me. I love the whole business of mixing up spells in secret and figuring out when to use them, hiding all your stuff under the bed and behind the tapestry. I wrote more than one story as a kid that borrowed tropes from this game, especially the whole "kidnapped into apprenticeship to evil, oppressive wizard in tower" thing. It's also just well-staged, just at the point that you're getting REALLY sick of sneaking around on the evil wizard's schedule you're able to get him out of the picture, and if I remember right, that in turn sets into motion the arrival of the pirate ship, which moves you along to a whole NEW country just as you've completely exhausted everything you hadn't solved in the OLD one. There's a bit of a slump having to kill time on the pirate ship (it's a nice pirate ship though), and as always for non-QFG Sierra games, the "action" sequences (climbing rocks, avoiding the death pixel of falling) blow.

I would throw together a nuILX-style poll of every Sierra "animated adventure" ever but I'm not sure the demographics are there...

I just re-read the classic OMM "adventure games committed suicide" editorial the other day. Casino OTM about the reward of how gorgeous everything was, and being able to watch just a couple of pixels move to let you pass through to a new area was awesome enough to justify all the PITA shenanigans in between. Space Quest I & II were completely great and awful at the same time

http://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/77.html

Oh MAN, I remember that article. "In order to construct the costume, Gabriel Knight must manufacture a fake moustache. Utilizing the style of logic adventure game creators share with morons, Knight must do this even though Moseley does not have a moustache."

Their twin zeniths were the SWAT strategy guide and the crate-based objective evaluation system for games. I still check that site every once in a blue moon hoping against hope for an update...

Blood
StC: 24 seconds
Notes: You actually have to fight some things to find the first barrel.
Comments:
Kevin: Blood is a good game.
erik: Do you mean in your opinion?
Kevin: No.

they both wound up working in the industry I think

I agree with the "had to be there" thing. I loved to death those Sierra and Lucasarts games, but damn if anybody should have been put up with the interface limitations that we had to back then, in this age. ...Despite the great amount of hilarious written content. I mean, as much as they're great, can you realistically recommend to someone who wasn't playing these games back to go through the insanity of Day of the Tentacle? Or Monkey Island 2?? (though maybe that insane logic is an enticement)

I was OBSESSED with the QFG games. Had 4 save files since QFG2, one for each class, so I could take each class through its own path through the next 2 games. Loved 'em. Missed out on part five, though.

The weird thing is, once you pass around 1993-4 (?) it almost like nobody even tried to improve the GUI experience for this genre. Everything seemed pretty solidly Myst-like or point/click iconify action (boiling down to wack inventory puzzles and pixel hunts).

The only game I can remember in this respect was Westwood's Blade Runner, which was f'in awesome. They had a neat audio note-taking system that affected the questions you could ask people instead of the standard inventory system. Plus every time you replayed the game the replicants were different, which led to really divergent paths and endings.

But yeah, I loved that era of adventure gaming. Nowadays it's Phoenix Wright or nothin'.

what about zack & wiki?

Haven't played it. I thought it was more of a puzzle game than story-driven adventure, but correct me if I'm wrong. People generally say good things?

They had a neat audio note-taking system that affected the questions you could ask people instead of the standard inventory system.

Not sure exactly what this entailed, but it does seem like there were a few games that on some level tried to escape inventory puzzles by focusing on dialogue trees - various Ultimas, the Dagger of Amon Ra, and so on (replacing the text-based "ASK ABOUT MURDER" system). I guess this lends itself to even-tempered mystery games, where the "puzzle" operates in a real-world "there's a question we're trying to answer" manner rather than as an arbitrary physical obstacle thrown into the game. I'm also thinking of the obscure escaped-mental-patient-who-vaguely-remembers-a-terrorist-plot game Countdown, where you're trying to remember who you are and when the bomb is going to go off, etc.

Both Return to Zork and Countdown were early digitzed-speech games, so of course I remember all their dialogue by heart. Countdown had only a few special snippets reserved for the cut scenes, and the tortured wheeze of "GEETTT SCORPIOOOO" haunted my third-grade playground imaginascapes. Return to Zork was a CD ROM title and had dozens of classic lines, ranging from the drunken hillbilly's invitation "Want some rye? COURSE ya do!" to a whining old wizard crying out "I need a new battery," the latter of which has fallen into regular use with me every time I need, well, a new battery. The puzzles in both games were completely wack and terrible though - utterly arbitrary crap that makes sense only in hindsight for RoZ, and HORRIFIC pixel-hunting point-and-click action in Countdown.

In general, I think Nhex is right on about the stagnation of the genre, despite various small experiments. The "minigame" approach wears thin fast, because there are really only so many original minigames you can come up with. (Mrs. Astro-Chicken was pretty good though...) Return to Zork and Countdown had at least one maze each. Vote NO on mazes in adventure games. "King's Quest V" was a particularly egregious example since the game suddenly switches to a first-person mode which operates in a deeply counterintuitive fashion.

On the plus side - my favorite dialogue-based puzzle ever is in Ultima Underworld, where you gradually realize that this one gesturing prisoner guy (the gestures are described in text) is mute, but understands both English and Lizardman. You feed him the phrases you hear in your brief, unsuccessful conversations with Lizardmen, and from the descriptions of his gestures, try to work out the language on sheets of paper lying around your desk. Eventually you develop a passable ability to communicate in Lizardman. REALLY cool in my opinion!

i love love loved these games and i thought they went downhill when the mouse got involved and you pointed at actions. it was all about typing that shit out.

btw Youtube is GREAT for reliving this shit without actually spending your day on it - just throw it on headphones (for the talky ones anyway).

"Alexander takes a mint."

hahahahahah

This is an attempt to exhaust all possible ways to lose in King's Quest VI. Part 1 is clips of Alexander drowning offshore of the Isle of the Crown, and then 11 ways to fail while dealing with the Isle of Wonder gnomes.

Oh god, Dagger of Amon Ra. That game was great too, but filled with all that sick Sierra sadism. The note-taking/clue system was cool, and it was crazy how you could get the wrong ending and then get murdered by the REAL killer as your comeuppance. Didn't figure it out, didn't find the murder weapon, or didn't pick up the right evidence to prove who the real one was? Tough, you gotta start the game all over and try again! (Not to mention, since this was a Sierra game after all, so many opportunies to get randomly ambushed and killed.) Wonderful setting and protagonist, too.

I have to admire, somewhat, that they'd even have the balls to design a game like that today - can you imagine anyone even trying that now? Are we better off?

That KQVI video made me remember why I gave up on that game so quickly.

My favorite one of these was... LOOM.

Here's some good old adventure games you can download

King's Quest 1 and 2 VGA remakes(2 is a good place to start with KQ remakes)
King's Quest 3 VGA remake
Maniac Mansion Deluxe
List of best traditional 3rd person adventure games in order of rating (with links to d/l)

Quest for Glory 4 1/2: So You Thought You Were a Hero?

This is a controversial/fun, quality rendition of old Quest For Glory games.

ok, i figured out that quest for glory IV was the one that i played. i don't think i got very far.

Go to the east part of Mordavia. You'll notice Nikolai, the old man,
wandering around. You can talk to him, but you won't get much. Now, go to
Dr. Cranium's house. To open the door, you'll have to repeat the sequence of
the bells (6). Once inside, open the door on the right to get Antwerped
(oof!). You'll now need to catch one of these Antwerps, using the device on
the floor, the T.R.A.P. So, answer all the questions with intent of finding
Antwerps (bounces, no legs, does NOT sing Waltzing Matilda). Once you
identify it (2), you'll need to bait the T.R.A.P. with avocado from one of
your food rations. The T.R.A.P. will start working, and will catch an
Antwerp (2). Right now, you can identify another animal. The animal you
want is a hexapod. Six legs, resembles a squid, and eating Heroes does NOT
sound good to you. You'll learn that the food is Garlic (2). Now, back to
the Antwerp. Open the the left door, and you'll start working on the Antwerp
maze. What you have to do now is rotate the maze so that the Antwerp bounces
towards the key, and then to the exit. Avoid the holes, and time the turns
so that the Antwerp bounces properly. Once you get the key (6), go to the
door on the far wall. Now, you'll need to rearrange the squares so that
you'll see a keyhole. Once you form it, click on the treasure chest in the
upper right corner, and you'll grab the key and use it on the lock to enter
Dr. Cranium's Lab (6). Talk to the good Doctor and be sure to ask him about
Science, and then Healing Potions, Poison Cures, and one or two Empty Flasks.
To give him the formulae for each of the potions (2, 2), you need to look in
your manual, and match up the formula with the respective elements. If you
don't have your manual, too bad. In a couple of days, you'll be able to ask
him about a Rehydration Solution, and you'll need to give him a formula for
that (2). Once you do that, you'll need to get him some Goo from the Squid
Stone Area in order to receive the solution.

i still think of KQI when i hear greensleeves!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdNGpUjbPPA

TALK ELF

Loom is really dazzling and beautiful, if it's like these I wish I'd played more of them. It's how you go through all these places, and they're hard, and people are unpleasant to you? And then what happens, it's a sort of childhood's end thing. I don't want to spoil it.

Quest For Glory IV is by far the worst out of the first four games (never played V so I can't compare it). Buggy, awkward, aimless, and with really crummy combat. It was a huge letdown at the time.

i still think of KQI when i hear greensleeves!

Me too! My other association: I had a professor once who got onto the subject of dating at the Renaissance Festival: "I'll be the one in the black mask...singing 'Greensleves.' (pause, aside:) Did they only have one song back then?"

dating at the Renaissance Festival

ew

Oh, I forgot to rep for Colonel's Bequest and Conquests of Camelot, two more from that really fruitful period right before they went VGA/mouse-based. Ridiculously rich games, frustrating as hell sometimes, but shockingly developed, especially Colonel's Bequest, which has just tons of shit going on that you can completely miss if you're not in the right place at the right time (which is of course totally annoying but it was still really cool to me at the time). Amazing music too!

God, it's amazing how much work went into old games like this, that no one will probably ever really see or appreciate again. A gallery show of every screen of Conquest of Camelot would be so great. All those painstaking pixel backgrounds!

Sierra's Robin Hood game was amazing as well..

Am I gonna be the first to mention... Leisure Suit Larry?

This year I've been attempting to work through all the King's Quests this year, with Gamefaqs to hand, natch. Currently I've ground to a halt at KQIV, which is unfortunately ruined by the same annoyances as the previous three, except with slightly prettier graphics.

For the life of me I can't follow the kind of anti-logic that leads to you losing out on some useful item because you did the right thing but in the wrong order. This is one that really bugs me - after cleaning house for some dwarves, one of them leaves behind a bag of diamonds that you can give to a fisherman in exchange for his rod. However, what you're supposed to do is attempt to return the diamonds to the gnome before you make the trade for the rod, otherwise you won't be able to get the lamp which you need to get through a dark cave to get the magic fruit from the swamp, etc etc. If you've already swapped the diamonds you have no way of getting the lamp at all and are completely fucked, basically.

Now I've reached a point where, according to all available walkthroughs, I'm supposed to hang around in the sea waiting for a whale to appear so I can get swallowed. What happens in practice is no whale appears and I swim about the same few ocean screens until get tired and drown/a shark eats me. Then I think "Fuck this shit," and go and do something else.

The problem I have with this series is from a modern perspective they just aren't fun at all. King's Quest seems to be all about punishing the player and making them suffer through the most infuriating bullshit for meagre rewards. At least the early Space Quest and Leisure Suit Larry games attempted to give the player a rewarding experience, and you actually had a slim chance in hell of finishing them without help. I've got KQ V, VI and VII here, but I'm starting to think life's too short.

Did anyone ever play either of the Manhunter games? They had this fascinating dystopian setting where the earth has been colonised by a bunch of floating eyeballs, and you play a kind of blade runner-esque character who has to run around a decaying urban sprawl doing their dirty work, hunting down dissidents. They were fairly unique at the time, as they first person and even had a primitive point and click interface(this would be in the late eighties). Although they suffered from some poorly thought-out puzzles(first person mazes, argh), I think the plot and atmosphere still hold up, and it's surely crying out for a modern update. Or would be if anyone had cared about them at the time.

The problem I have with this series is from a modern perspective they just aren't fun at all. King's Quest seems to be all about punishing the player and making them suffer through the most infuriating bullshit for meagre rewards.

That's one of the many reasons when Lucasarts starting putting out stuff it was such a breath of fresh air- besides doing away with the countless ways to die, it also realized the inherent ridiculousness of putting a million widgets together to solve problems in completely illogical fashion, and just ran with the humor - that's probably why I liked those particular Sierra series, as well.

I remember that whale problem! I feel like there's some specific actual trigger for making the whale show up but god knows. Do you have a feather?

i love love loved these games and i thought they went downhill when the mouse got involved and you pointed at actions. it was all about typing that shit out.

― s1ocki, Tuesday, April 1, 2008 2:32 PM (8 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^^^^^^^^^^ t bomb of century

I remember that whale problem! I feel like there's some specific actual trigger for making the whale show up but god knows. Do you have a feather?

I don't remember if you need a feather to trigger the whale's appearance, but you definitely need a feather to get out of the whale once it swallows you: "tickle uvula."

Right, which is why I wonder if they won't let you encounter the whale until you have the feather - rare case of them NOT letting you box yourself in...

love these games. s1ocki i played these with inverted typing, though.

and good lord i remember all these puzzles. the hint books had yellow marker for the answers, remember?

what nostalgia. i'm going to go cry.

tickle uvula
tickle uvula
tickle uvula
tickle uvula
tickle uvula
tickle uvula
tickle uvula
tickle uvula

Some wonderful person has posted a video with all of the digitized-speech sections from classic bad game COUNTDOWN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVPqvOOqjKg

I am eternally grateful.