the rolling Final Crisis thread

Also, I should comment; I really loved Final Crisis #2, and much more than I enjoyed FC #1. There was a lot more I understood, and except for the final 6 pages or so, I had no problem following the sequence of events.

"Becoming" is the key here, I think.

The people who are "possessed" have not had their own consciousnesses fully displaced: note the scene in JLA headquarters where Kraken tips her hand, shouting "warn them! our weapons are useless!" or some such. Her "occupier" is on edge from Batman's questioning, and the body's true consciousness breaks through for a second; Turpin is at an earlier stage in his possession/occupation, and his own identity has not yet been fully subsumed.

Ha, so Final Crisis is really just like Secret Invasion after all.

I think the point is rather that humanity is being destroyed by these archetypes that were already there -- always the subtext of the Kirby stuff, after all -- and that the evil New Gods are simply giving this horrible plot form and structure. We all tap into these archetypes, and this is what happens when we are overtaken by the villainous gods of Apokalips rather than those from New Genesis.

Not too hard to grasp!

They have multiple proxies because they are forces beyond the corporeal. The limitations of the New Gods concept was always that we understood them as these superhero/supervillain characters with defined appearances, but the idea is stronger if they are beyond all that, and exist as archetypes.

britishes and anglophiles: i watched this week's doctor who and spent the whole time thinking 'god if only they could have gotten grant morrison to write this'

Grant's first two Who stories are two of my favourite Who stories ever.

They have multiple proxies because they are forces beyond the corporeal.

Are there actually any scenes of them having multiple proxies, though, or is it just you speculating?

Not too hard to grasp!

So why do you think Turpin is out looking for the kids again? And why does he not start acting like a New God until after he encounters New Gods?

Turpin's out looking for the kids again because, after his encounter with Señor Dark Side, he doesn't remember having found them; the implication is that that's when Dark Side, after "wearing out" the body he was in, started moving into Turpin. (He also keeps blacking out during the scene when he's beating the crap out of the Mad Hatter; his mind's really on the fritz.) What's left of Turpin knows only that it's supposed to be looking for the kids; the Darkseid in him is not just making him more brutal, it's making him enjoy the brutality.

I already said all that myself! I'm wondering why Matt thinks he is, since he doesn't think that Darkseid has moved into Turpin.

"But I'm surprised that there has been no discussion (that I have seen here) re: the massive contradictions between Countdown/Death of New Gods and FC and how Morrison shrugged his shoulders and suggested it was DC editorial's fuckup (newsarama interview, I think)."

My way of looking at is who cares...they are dead and being reborn. They are freakin' godz, stuff gets weird whenever you deal with them, which is what Morrison is playing up.

I feel for people that bought 60 issues of something they didn't like, but there is no reason to screw up a good story because of one that isn't that good.

It is just like some of the Batfans not getting why Dini and Morrison are are not following up on the stories from before 'One Year Later'. Why are they not following up on alot of that stuff, because it sucked. I freaking hope that Dini doesn't even acknowledge any of that cruddy Gotham Knight's Joker/Hush storyline at all in his upcoming story.

"METAL MEN is Morrisonian Madness!"

I will check that one out.

"RUN!" The last page of FC #2 is genius. Actually both of the last pages of the first two issues have been great, as they make you really want to see what is coming up next.

I've got a feeling Final Crisis is going to be like that JLA "Rock of Ages" story in that everyone is screwed up and how they are going to pull out of this one won't become apparent until the end. I don't think you need to have read that storyline or 7 Soldiers to get what is going on in Final Crisis, but I do think that having read both of those stories do add some interesting angles.

it does feel a bit odd that something that's not all that different from the stories he did month in month out on his jla run is now a MAJOR MAJOR EVENT type comic, or am i missing something

p.s. perpetua's line on the multiply valent versions of the gods is, to be fair, the one morrison's been trying to sell in interviews; it's just, you know, not actually in the comic, as of yet

"Love & Monsters" from Doctor Who's second season is as-close-as-dammit to a Morrison-written episode, which is all the more impressive considering that it's from the main series writer.

it does feel a bit odd that something that's not all that different from the stories he did month in month out on his jla run is now a MAJOR MAJOR EVENT type comic, or am i missing something

Morrison's flow is much better now than it was on JLA, and he's working with an artist who can draw. So I don't think it's really comparable.

i can actually see love & monsters with philip bond art and dialogue boxes, i guess.

tbh final crisis's art, for me, isn't going beyond "does the job" — tho i think that might be the colouring more than the art.

not great for reading comprehension tho — w/r/t just one scene, the hooded figure that looks headless when john's being attacked, "say goodbye to your eyes!" when it's not clear that anything's heading towards his eyes, john's ring not being shown remanifesting, then when batman recognises the indentation in thingamajig's palm it doesn't actually look like an indentation — i thought she just had the GL logo on her hand and didn't link it to "a hell of a right hook" until i looked again

Huh? I assumed that she simply had an in-built ring for some reason.

I like that Batman catches something at a glance that leaves the average reader completely puzzled but which can easily be inferred by close reading/looking. As it should be.

Somebody pointed out in the comments over at the annotations site that, after the hooded figure's fight with John, Kraken's entire right arm is suddenly glowing green. Which I had completely failed to notice, too.

Why does the hooded figure's arm have standard human anatomy and GL uniform, though? John's ring disappearing really cocks that scene up for the close reading/looking.

further to Rock of Ages (any Moz JLA storyline) vs Final Crisis: DC wasn't really doing the GIANT crossover thing back then, so if someone (say, Grant Morrison) wanted to do an epic story featuring a bunch of superheroes saving the world/universe, a monthly comic (say, JLA) was the place to do it.

what I'm saying: the only real difference is the marketing

I don't think it's as easy as "Turpin is possessed by Darkseid!" I think it's more like, Turpin is tapping into Darkseid, and a lot of other people can as well. Maybe they tap into Desaad, or Granny Goodness, or Godfrey.

Like I said, this is hinted at in the book, and made explicit in Teen Titans. I imagine they will make it more explicit in Final Crisis as the story progresses to act two. Morrison doesn't have to lay all the cards out on the table in the first two issues, and I don't see why so many people insists that every answer appear right away, even with five more issues to go. I like the way they are handling the crossover elements of Final Crisis -- they are not necessary for the enjoyment of what Grant is doing, but they do clarify aspects of the story, i.e. the motives/nature of the Dark Side Club, or the backstory of the Human Flame.

what about the giant massive crossover DC ONE MILLION right in the middle of his run tho

was it that morrison's run on jla was just unusual in deciding to run with a series of massive cosmic-level type threats?

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/07/05/top-five-things-in-grant-morrisons-jla-run-that-annoyed-me/

"1. Only Superman attending Metamorpho�s funeral

I get it - Morrison was making a point about how ephemeral superhero �death� is - but he could have done so without having NOone but Superman (who barely KNEW Metamorpho) show up at his funeral!!

The worst part for me is that while you may try to write it off and say �Nah, they were busy on a mission� etc, Morrison decries that by actually SHOWING what Flash (former teammate and friend of Metamorpho�s) and Green Lantern (who just had his bacon saved by Metamorpho earlier in the series) were doing during the funeral - and it was just hanging out at the Watchtower!!

SO lame!"

tbh final crisis's art, for me, isn't going beyond "does the job"

Yeah, have to agree--was expecting more after the League of Batmen stuff.

Emmm, "League Of Batmen" is J.H. Williams III, "Final Crisis" is J.G. Jones... I usually make the same mistake too! :D

Ahh... That explains it. Whoops. (Hides face in shame.)

I came across the October previews for DC issues. Some of this stuff looks pretty awesome to me. Grant Morrison is writing a couple of the crossovers including one this month and the Superman one, which I think comes out in the off month. Final Crisis #5 is the one that comes out after the month break.

FINAL CRISIS #5
Written by Grant Morrison
Art and covers by J.G. Jones, Carlos Pacheco & Jesus Merino
Humanity enslaved! Time shattered and bleeding! Anti-Life triumphant! Can Earth's demoralized, beaten heroes rally their scattered forces for the ultimate super-battle against the nightmare armies of Apokolips when the forces of good meet the forces of evil on the bridge to Bluedhaven? As Darkseid's presence causes reality itself to sicken and the lights to go out across the universe, as even the Guardians fall, the true power of the evil gods finally reveals itself, and a major character returns for a shocking conclusion.
Does the secret of humankind's salvation lie in a mysterious cave painting and a bolt of lightning? Or has the Last Day come for us all?
Retailers please note: This issue will ship with two covers - one by J.G. Jones and one by Carlos Pacheco - that will ship in approximately 50/50 ratio. Please see the Previews Order Form for more information.
On sale October 29 * 5 of 7 * 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US

FINAL CRISIS: SUBMIT #1
Written by Grant Morrison
Art by Matthew Clark & Norm Rapmund
Covers by Matthew Clark and Rodolfo Migilari
In a world overrun by Darkseid's Anti-Life Equation and his relentless storm troopers, do you choose to SUBMIT? As the lines between Super Hero and Super-Villain become blurred, the ultimate odd couple of Black Lightning and Tattoo Man, in what could be their final adventure, battle against the odds to save a family from the great darkness.
Retailers please note: This issue will ship with two covers - one by Matthew Clark and one by Rodolfo Migliari - that will ship in approximately 50/50 ratio. Please see the Previews Order Form for more information.
On sale October 1 * 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US

FINAL CRISIS: RESIST #1
Written by Greg Rucka & Eric Trautmann
Art by Ryan Sook
Covers by Ryan Sook and Rodolfo Migliari
In a world overrun by Darkseid's Anti-Life Equation and his relentless storm troopers, do you choose to RESIST? The world's only hope for survival depends on one-time JLA mascot Snapper Carr, Mr. Terrific, and Checkmate. With the aid of the villainous Cheetah, Snapper must rally the various factions of Checkmate and awaken an evil from a Crisis past. Could this actually be the end?
Retailers please note: This issue will ship with two covers - one by Ryan Sook and one by Rodolfo Migliari - that will ship in approximately 50/50 ratio. Please see the Previews Order Form for more information.
On sale October 22 * 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US

FINAL CRISIS: RAGE OF THE RED LANTERNS #1
Written by Geoff Johns
Art and covers by Shane Davis & Sandra Hope
The prelude to "The Blackest Night" begins here!
They come from a place of great anger and hatred. They are
the Red Lanterns and they will have their revenge against the greatest Green Lantern - Sinestro. That is, unless the Guardians have theirs first.
Retailers please note: This issue will ship with two covers by Shane Davis & Sandra Hope that will ship in approximately 50/50 ratio. Please see the Previews Order Form for more information.
On sale October 15 * 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US

FINAL CRISIS: LEGION OF THREE WORLDS #3
Written by Geoff Johns
Art by George Perez & Scott Koblish
Covers by George Perez
The Legion of Super-Heroes call in the reinforcements against Superboy Prime and the Legion of Super-Villains
as the Crisis of the 31st Century continues. While Superboy Prime comes face-to-face with the last of the Green Lanterns, Brainiac 5 and XS attempt to ignite an electrical storm using the lightning rod, which is destined to turn the tide of the war. And what are Polar Boy, Dawnstar and Wildfire up to in the 20th Century?
Retailers please note: This issue will ship with two covers by George Perez that will ship in approximately 50/50 ratio. Please see the Previews Order Form for more information.
On sale October 22 * 3 of 5 * 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US

FINAL CRISIS: REVELATIONS #3
Written by Greg Rucka
Art by Philip Tan, Jeff de los Santos & Jonathan Glapion
Covers by Philip Tan
The Anti-Life Equation has infected Gotham City, turning friend, foe and family into mindless slaves of Darkseid, and the might of the Spear of Destiny has left The Spectre powerless. Can The Question find the answer to restoring hope inside the one being capable of saving the world?
Retailers please note: This issue will ship with two covers by Philip Tan that will ship in approximately 50/50 ratio. Please see the Previews Order Form for more information.
On sale October 8 * 3 of 5 * 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US

Moz talks FC2 at some comics website that thinks comics fans need to look at an ad for a Batman movie before getting their nerd news.

By which Doc Supes means http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080721-MorrisonFC02.html .

The month break was s'posed to be between 3 and 4, but, uh, 3 got pushed back a week... so since EVEREHTING will be POIFEKLY on schedule from now on, July is unofficially the skip month, I guess. But the story break is supposedly between 3 and 4.

I find it odd that Superman Beyond #2 has not yet appeared on the schedule, but maybe that's just me.

WHO the WHAT WHAT??

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080818-dc-november-solicitations.html

(spoilers for FC, and other stuffs)

You know. Like Epop, the Anti-Pope.

Re: that Batman cover...if Alex Ross has that kinda juice in him, why does he waste his time on so much hyper-reverent photorealist bullshit? Oh right the money.

Anyway, his R.I.P. covers are easily the best things I've ever seen him do.

It's kinda weird that Two-Face is on that cover though, since he was never on the Adam West series.

No more spoilers for me for RIP and Final Crisis! I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I'm gonna try.

DON'T SPOIL IN THIS THREAD

Yeah, I think the last issue was ruined for me by reading too much about the series. No more! It'd nice to be surprised by a comic for a change. I spend too much time on nerdy comic sites anyway

Don't know if this is news (probably not), but on the "story" covers for FC & related books, it looks like they're darkening the red and degrading the cover text (like a photocopy of a photocopy) -- shit is getting serious!

FWIW, I didn't mind Requiem, but that's 99% because I am putty in Mahnke's hands / lips.

Chip Kidd on his design for Final Crisis here: http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=156907

So, thoughts on how it's going so far, anyone? This issue was a bit of a drop-off for me -- Pachecho's art is obviously a bit of a let down, but also some rather generic dialogue in the script -- albeit redeemed by that great last page.

I liked it a lot, but less than previous issues. Pacheco's art wasn't so much of a problem for me, as was the slight "spinning wheels" feeling.
Anyway, GA & BC + The Flashes being immune to anti-life (of course they would! they are the spirit of the silver age, vital, fast and fun!) + the final page + anything Darkseid's entourage says + gorilla justifier = still very good comic.
And immensely better than "Badly Choreographed Bendis Fight Scene Number Seven"

Yeah, the Green Arrow/Black Canary scenes win this one. I'm continuing to love the whole project, I just wish the scheduling weren't so hiccupy.

By the way (with the possibility of being patronizing), do you understand the "You Have Been Reading" gag at the end? (It's a lift from the end credits of British sitcoms -- I'm never sure if people notice that).

(I meant, apologies if this sounds patronising. Anyway, carry on...)

Are all future DC storylines destined to be Apocalypse du jour?

what is with no one talking about this comic anymore :(

Whatcha want? I'm keeping up the annotations at http://finalcrisisannotations.blogspot.com/ , and I thought #5 was totally amazing... really enjoying the Batman tie-ins, too.

Cripes.