Completely Optimistic Batman Begins Anticipation Thread

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(This is maybe one of my problems with Batman Returns: the Penguin isn't a very compelling villain even outside of that particular version of him. I liked him in Contagion/Legacy, though, and he probably had a similar role in No Man's Land.)

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 29 July 2004 20:11 (nineteen years ago) link

x-post
I think over-top-villians worked in Spiderman, because it had that very technicolor, insular feel to it, whereas with this Batman it seems like they're going for more of a political thriller/ "pulp" as Tep said, feel. And I think it may be what the film and WB need to counteract the Catwoman silliness.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Thursday, 29 July 2004 20:12 (nineteen years ago) link

Aha, now I see what you mean. And agree completely.
I think that's one of the reason's Superman movies will be hard, because after Luthor, who's Supes got? Brainiac? Puh-leeze. Mongul? Whatev! Doomsday? Wake me when it's over. Bizarro? Mxy-blah-blah? Are we 5 here?

― Huck, Thursday, 29 July 2004 20:15 (nineteen years ago) link

And the Spider-Man crew have been very careful -- maybe to a fault, but that's another issue and I will hear no ill spoken of Spidey! -- about giving the villains emotional connections to and emotional import for Spidey, which is something else the last three Batman movies lacked. It doesn't make them less over the top (help my robot arms are plotting against me!), but it makes them less out of place, I think.

It's harder to do that with Batman without jeopardizing the character's integrity, because he just doesn't have that kind of emotional vulnerability, whereas Spidey is almost defined by it.

Not that I'm calling Spidey emo.

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 29 July 2004 20:17 (nineteen years ago) link

The whole emo-spidey thing is intriguing, because surely he does strike that chord with his audience. How do people idenitify with Batman?

― Huck, Thursday, 29 July 2004 20:19 (nineteen years ago) link

But he is.

Gary Gordon = excellent.

― R.I.M.A. (Barima), Thursday, 29 July 2004 20:19 (nineteen years ago) link

Bizarro is the best bet, I think, depending on who the villain is in the first movie (it wouldn't have to be Luthor!) -- but you could do Bizarro well, because he's a villain who can exist because of Superman, so you could have a sequel that didn't seem like a lot of sequel elements patchworked together.

Mxyzptlk, well, I'd like to see him, but they'd probably get Jamie Kennedy to play him or something, and that would suck.

xpost; people identify with Batman in a Bernhard Goetz sort of way, a Death Wish way, only toned down -- he's the guy getting revenge, but without getting out of line.

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 29 July 2004 20:20 (nineteen years ago) link

(That's just a random guess or one possible identification.)

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 29 July 2004 20:25 (nineteen years ago) link

I love Spidey too, and I know what you're talking about-the very personal decisions in Spiderman are what makes his character compelling, Batman's a badass. Christian Bale would not be a good Spiderman.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Thursday, 29 July 2004 20:26 (nineteen years ago) link

Mxyzptlk = John Leguizamo, duh.

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 29 July 2004 20:55 (nineteen years ago) link

Batman = expresses the turmoil of his childhood through righteous violence = massive appeal for adolescent males.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 29 July 2004 20:58 (nineteen years ago) link

It's not a coincidence, I think, that the three superheroes we've talked about in terms of successful (and ghetto-escaping) movies are Batman, Spider-Man, and Superman. The first two are the tragedy guys -- "criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot"/revenge vs "with great power comes great responsibility"/guilt -- and Superman is based on the same "I'm actually special!" power fantasy that fuels Buffy and Alias.

(Likewise, I think a lot of Unbreakable's inability to really become a smash came down to the fact that Bruce Willis wasn't playing a superhero in the sense those three are superheroes. He was playing a guy with super powers. There's nothing wrong with that, but the powers aren't enough to trip all the resonance triggers successful superhero stories trip. Lifting A Lot Of Heavy Stuff isn't enough of a fantasy to vicariously groove to.)

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 29 July 2004 21:51 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm gonna be the lone Complete Pessimist, but that trailer shows waaay too much Tibet (which is pretty and all) and not enough Batman (like any.) I'm hoping that Bats will be in the movie for more than fifteen minutes, but am not holding my breath.

― Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Thursday, 29 July 2004 21:53 (nineteen years ago) link

I haven't seen the trailer yet (I'm not going to go out of my way to see it, it'll hit me when it hits me), but in the spirit of optimism, that could be just to focus on the ways this movie is different from the Schlockmacher. It's still just a teaser, isn't it?

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 29 July 2004 21:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Entirely possible that it's part of their strategy to generate buzz by not doing a big reveal of the Batman and all, but the indications that I've gotten is that it's BY FAR more Bruce Wayne than Batman, which is a little worrying.

― Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Thursday, 29 July 2004 22:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Having Batman is the centerpiece didn't necessarily help the last two (four?) movies. I.e. Bruce Wayne = can't hurt.

― The Dreaded Rear Admiral (Leee), Thursday, 29 July 2004 22:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Batman's appeal is based upon the fact that he is cool. A total badass. Superman's appeal is based on the fact that he is a God. Spidey's is based on the fact that hes a geek, just like us. Lets face it, Bruce Wayne and Kal El would have been jocks in High School, tragic childhoods not having gotten in the way. Parker would have been geek all the wayyy.

The whole Ras Al Ghul as Ninja cult leader seems to suggest more Daredevil/Elektra and the Hand than Batman to me, but I like the epic feel suggested by the teaser. And from an interview with goyer I read, theres plenty of Batman in the second hour of his script - hardcore Batman fights ninja stuff...

― David N (David N.), Thursday, 29 July 2004 23:12 (nineteen years ago) link

Nothing could help the last two movies, Lee. Not even the presence of the entire JLA. Flawed outings from the onset.

Batman should be the centerpiece of a Batman movie. Just sayin'.

― Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Thursday, 29 July 2004 23:22 (nineteen years ago) link

The whole Ras Al Ghul as Ninja cult leader seems to suggest more Daredevil/Elektra and the Hand

Exactly what I thought. I just like how artfully ostentatious it looks (rather than the neon cheese of yore).

Matt -- if what you're talking about is akin to the One/Same Monster in the Hellboy movie, then agreed.

― The Dreaded Rear Admiral (Leee), Thursday, 29 July 2004 23:23 (nineteen years ago) link

I haven't seen Hellboy yet, Lee. Was considering watching it tonight, as I picked it up on a whim from Costco yesterday.

― Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Thursday, 29 July 2004 23:28 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm all for treating Batman like the alien (in _Alien_).

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 30 July 2004 01:29 (nineteen years ago) link

If Bat-Mite pops out of ANYONE's chest, I'm leavin.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 30 July 2004 01:33 (nineteen years ago) link

What if he comes out the back door after a meal of Taco Bell?

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 30 July 2004 01:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Leaving and buying new socks.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 30 July 2004 01:45 (nineteen years ago) link

I actually bought Wizard today (for the GL: Rebirth preview) and they have a little tiny blurb where Bale compares to the movie to a bunch of other movies, including Serpico. REmember, this is Batman Begins so he doesn't have to put on the cowl until the last frame of the movie. They wouldn't sell many happy meals like that, but I'd be impressed (if it was well done).
One that does worry me is that everything, the batmobile, the batsuit, etc, is supposed to be WayneTech prototype, which like, hello, that's a pretty direct connection from BW to BM.

― Huck, Friday, 30 July 2004 06:24 (nineteen years ago) link

...that's not optimism, Huck...

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 30 July 2004 12:04 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm, uh, optimistically worried? I'm worried it will be so great it will blow my mind?

― Huck, Friday, 30 July 2004 13:59 (nineteen years ago) link

For Chicago folks, perhaps
http://www.suntimes.com/output/entertainment/cst-nws-batman30.html

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Friday, 30 July 2004 15:51 (nineteen years ago) link

the train scene in Spider-Man 2 was really in Chicago???? OMG, I hate NY now.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Friday, 30 July 2004 15:55 (nineteen years ago) link

One of my friends was an extra on a train in Chicago for Spider-Man 2, but it was done by a secondary camera crew out filming location footage (I think there's another term for it that I can't remember)before the main shoot even started. I wonder if he's in the movie (oh no! I let slip that I haven't seen SM2 yet!).

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 30 July 2004 16:04 (nineteen years ago) link

Dude, see it! Assuming you liked the first one, anyway.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 30 July 2004 16:08 (nineteen years ago) link

Dude, if you liked the 1st one, you will make sloppy drunken lust-drenched booty love to the 2nd.

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 30 July 2004 16:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, S-M2 will make you weak in the knees. Or rather, since we're all nerds here, even weaker in the knees in a surprisingly delightful, slightly non-arthritic way.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Friday, 30 July 2004 16:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh, I will. I've got to conquer my girlfriend's Kirsten Dunst loathing though. Maybe tonight.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 30 July 2004 17:01 (nineteen years ago) link

Kirstin is really not too bad in this one. My friends couldn't handle the fact that I found Alfred Molina kinda attractive.
x-post
One of my friends was supposed to be an extra in Spidey 2 as well, but it was -20 (windchill) the day of filming and her health has been poor. She knew who the villian was, and couldn't tell anyone.
(Why can't my dad be working on upper Wacker Drive anymore? Why did you have to change jobs, dad?)

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Friday, 30 July 2004 17:08 (nineteen years ago) link

Maybe Molina would make a good Rorshach!

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 30 July 2004 17:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Too stocky.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Friday, 30 July 2004 17:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Comedian?

(Sooner or later, everything comes back to Watchmen, don't it?)

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 30 July 2004 17:19 (nineteen years ago) link

If they would have done a decent LXG movie, he would have been a great Mycroft Holmes.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Friday, 30 July 2004 17:19 (nineteen years ago) link

Do you guys remember him as Indiana Jones's ill-fated and greedy guide in Raiders?

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Friday, 30 July 2004 17:33 (nineteen years ago) link

YES! I just saw that last weekend, and was geeked to see him in the cast! Too bad about that booby trap, tho.

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 30 July 2004 17:39 (nineteen years ago) link

I seem to remember him being great as Gary Oldman's jealous lover in "Prick up your ears" (an underated movie I haven't seen for years)

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Friday, 30 July 2004 17:44 (nineteen years ago) link

He's also the best part of uh, that Stanley Tucci/Oliver Platt faux-Laurel/Hardy movie.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Friday, 30 July 2004 17:50 (nineteen years ago) link

That whole movie is great, you crackhead! (Best part for me = reversed subtitles in the mirror.) (Or Campbell Scott's accent.)

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 30 July 2004 18:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Damn, I saw the Batman trailer after all, they ran it before The Village. I was hoping to avoid it until at least the year the movie comes out. It's definitely the kind of teaser trailer where you wouldn't have Batman in it until the end, though.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 30 July 2004 19:09 (nineteen years ago) link

bat-overload...(the 3-part-finale of superfriends, er Justice League re-airs tomorrow!)

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0407/30/bat0th.jpg

― Huck, Friday, 30 July 2004 19:12 (nineteen years ago) link

Remember that quote I mentioned upthread from ChrstnBl? Here it is:
"It's a cross between Serpico and The French Connection mixed with a really f---ing cool samurai, kung fu movie, and there's like some really strong 70s conspiracy movie vibes in there, too!"

this is good, no?

― Huck, Saturday, 31 July 2004 22:05 (nineteen years ago) link

They are apparently filming around Chicago right now. I should go be annoying.

― St. Nicholas (Nick A.), Monday, 2 August 2004 14:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Is good!

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 2 August 2004 14:51 (nineteen years ago) link

St. Nick, if I was a rich man, I'd offer to post your bail if you would dress up in the homeliest of made up supervillain costumes, like a colander on yr head, and pink rubber gloves and jockey shorts over sweatpants and disturb production, threatening to steal the dreamstuff of the fair citizens of Gotham unless you get the Batman's head on a platter, with fries and gravy. and coleslaw.

― Huck, Monday, 2 August 2004 18:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Skipping 152 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Internet says:

Victor Zsasz = serial killer

Charles Victor Szasz = Vic Sage

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 19 May 2005 20:10 (nineteen years ago) link

I was just about to post the same thing. So I guess James-Man will be a badguy, and not a plug for the upcoming Objectivist Superhero Masterpiece: THE QUESTION!

dang.

― Huk-L, Thursday, 19 May 2005 20:11 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.slushfactory.com/news/newspics/111802-M27__Zsasz.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/batmanonfilm/bofimagesbofimages/timbooth1.jpg

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 19 May 2005 20:14 (nineteen years ago) link

He's competing with Jarvis Cocker's upcoming role in Harry Potter IV.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Thursday, 19 May 2005 20:19 (nineteen years ago) link

OH MY EYES!!!
there's a supposed Batman Begins leak out there in the filesharingverse, but it is NOT, repeat NOT Batman Begins. It is dirty porn of the the worst legal kind.

― Huk, Monday, 30 May 2005 06:23 (nineteen years ago) link

On a more postive note, advance review:
http://www.buzzscope.com/features.php?id=985

― Huk-L, Monday, 30 May 2005 14:54 (nineteen years ago) link

I've got tickets for an advance screening on the 6th. It's free, so even if the movie's crap I can't really complain.

― Leon Federline (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 31 May 2005 14:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh, cool. Do report back, but mind the spoilers. After my porn fiasco, I've decided that God wants me to see this movie virginally.

― Huk-L, Tuesday, 31 May 2005 14:10 (nineteen years ago) link

five star BBC review

i want to believe.

― Lee F# (fsharp), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 09:11 (eighteen years ago) link

This is going to be completely humourless, isn't it?

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 09:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Yes, because there is nothing funny about a man dressing up as a bat.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 09:44 (eighteen years ago) link

well, apparently Oldham is playing Gordon in a slapstick, Sellers/Clouseau fashion, as a counterpoint to the darkness of Bale's Batman. they were worried that the film would just come off as totally po-faced, so Nolan decided to use Gordon to inject the needed humour.

― Lee F# (fsharp), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 11:20 (eighteen years ago) link

TS Humorless vs.
http://img201.echo.cx/img201/3692/batshark9wi.gif

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 12:18 (eighteen years ago) link

I loved it! Mind you, I have never read the Batman comics so most of my knowledge of Batman comes from the movies and Batman: the animated series. So I don't know if someone who's a fan of the comics will like it as much as I did, but I thought it was a lot of fun. Even though it's about two hours long it doesn't drag on the way, say, Revenge of the Sith did. I will probably even go see it again.

― Leon hearts Crazy Frog (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 12:38 (eighteen years ago) link

To be honest even though I like shark-fighting Batman and think it's about time to give Miller a rest, I am looking forward to this.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 12:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Bad new yorker review, but denby doesn't count:
www.newyorker.com/critics/cinema/articles/050613crci_cinema

― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 13:48 (eighteen years ago) link

That's the whole Bat-Truth, though, isn't it, Tom?
The very key to the character's longevity is his adaptability. There's this arch-rockist mindset that Miller-Bat is "Batman done right", but that's a complete load of bullshit. If Batman hadn't fought giant orange koalas from the Ninth Dimension in the 50s, and veered towards true romance under Carmine Infantino in the 60s, he would have gone the way of...um, nearly every other superhero who was around in 1951.
And even Miller's Batman, for all his snarling masculinity, has moments of High Camp. Especially in The Dark Knight Returns--Year One was basically Taxi Driver in tights--and, fuck, what was The Dark Knight Strikes Again if not a stunning failure to reconcile Adam West with, um, moody-Bats?

Christopher Nolan is crime thriller director, so he's made THAT kind of Batman movie. There's no reason why someone couldn't make a wonderful Bat-Farce.

― Huk-L, Tuesday, 7 June 2005 13:49 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm fine with BroodyBats as a character who other, more rounded characters react to (as in Gotham Central) but as the focus of a story he gets on my nerves.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 14:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, there's nowhere to go characterwise, with that, unless you actually allow Batman to deal with some of his issues, and if he could deal with his issues, he wouldn't be Batman, so it's a no-win situation if you wanna do character work with Batman.

― Huk-L, Tuesday, 7 June 2005 14:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Christian Bale backs me up here (not really):

Actor Christian Bale showed off his comics prowess at Sci Fi Wire, saying ""I liked the artwork of Alex Ross, but my favorites were the Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale stories. I've read a damn lot of them, all that DC sent me. I don't feel like Batman's ever really been defined in any portrayal, so I felt like this was an opportunity to finally do that, in regards to way that Bob Kane originally intended it when he wrote it in 1939. He intended it as being a dark and terrifying and intimidating character. It's kind of ended up being spoofed more. And then there's great material in the newer graphic novels of Frank Miller and Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale. So the source material is right there, and I just don't think it was ever taken advantage of until now. With 'Superman,' you can really look at Christopher Reeve and the way that he played it, and he's become the defining Superman. Whoever's playing him in the next one has got a really tough job to come up against him. I don't feel like that ever happened with 'Batman' before, so I felt like I had an opportunity to expand and bring something new to it."

― Huk-L, Tuesday, 7 June 2005 14:20 (eighteen years ago) link

I liked the artwork of Alex Ross

― Leeeeee (Leee), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 15:17 (eighteen years ago) link

but my favorites were the Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale stories

― Huk-L, Tuesday, 7 June 2005 15:23 (eighteen years ago) link

Hey, at least he read some comics.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 15:33 (eighteen years ago) link

If only he had read "The PLAYA On The Other Side!"

― Huk-L, Tuesday, 7 June 2005 15:34 (eighteen years ago) link

There's no reason why someone couldn't make a wonderful Bat-Farce.

-- Huk-L (handsomishbo...), June 7th, 2005.

um, http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0790732912.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― latebloomer: Pain Don't Hurt (latebloomer), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 16:44 (eighteen years ago) link

KEYWORD: WONDERFUL

― Huk-L, Tuesday, 7 June 2005 16:47 (eighteen years ago) link

ICE TO MEET YOU

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:18 (eighteen years ago) link

Sorry - the previous post should be:

PROGNOSIS: NEGATIVE

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:19 (eighteen years ago) link

Seriously, check this shit out: http://www.radiolovers.com/pages/batman.htm

― Huk-L, Tuesday, 7 June 2005 17:22 (eighteen years ago) link

way that Bob Kane originally intended it when he wrote it

― kit brash (kit brash), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 21:40 (eighteen years ago) link

THE HEART! THE HEART is in the right place, and that's what matters! Details schmetails.

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 7 June 2005 22:01 (eighteen years ago) link

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