In the event of Rapture all other teams will be Left Behind: the 2015 St. Louis Cardinals

http://i.imgur.com/K3UY2Ax.jpg

may as well kick it off! some things to think about as spring training unfolds:

- is jaime garcia a starting pitcher? he had a freakout yesterday during an interview and managed to say this out loud:

“I’m a starting pitcher. I’m a starting pitcher and I came in prepared for that,” Garcia said Thursday, the mandatory report date for the team’s pitchers and catchers. “I’ve been a starting pitcher my whole career. And obviously what happens is out of my control. I’m coming in this year like I did (five) years ago and made the team in my first full year — as a starting pitcher. Mentally, I’m the same exact guy. I’m coming in, trying to make the team, trying to earn a spot, but I am a starting pitcher.”

- except, carlos martinez is also a starting pitcher. or he should be. they've finally cleared out a spot for him this year, and appear to be pretty serious about giving him a shot. The barves wanted martinez for heyward, but the cardinals refused and gave them miller instead. similarly, the amaro demands martinez in return for cole hamels, and they won't budge there either.

- will marco gonzalez spend time in 2015 as a SP as depth, or will they keep him in the bullpen as a long reliever or another role?

- will piscotty play well enough to supplant grichuk as the 4th/5th outfielder?

- where will heyward, carpenter, and holliday bat in the order?

- is pete fucking kozma going to be on this team AGAIN? ty kelly and dean anna may get a chance to replace him.

- and of course, the health of the starting rotation. wainwright's thrown about 4920249 innings over the past few years, and wacha's shoulder is the subject of thousands of really bad Intermediate Sports Medicine mid-term essays this year.

- maybe i'm overreacting because i haven't seen anyone writing about it, but i'm kind of concerned about the health and lack of depth for position players, too. OF is fine, depth-wise. but an significant injury in the IF or C would really drag the team down. there's no depth at IF/C in the minors.

http://i.imgur.com/kEbV5jZ.jpg

man, Cards acquiring Hamels wd be only way to up the hateability

yr matheny graphic is so good that i won't even mention his book

xp seeing ruben amaro get robbed blind is never not enjoyable though

i haven't been following the hamels situation ultra-closely, but i thought amaro was demanding an exorbitant return for him? i assumed that whoever traded for hamels would be the team that got robbed blind.

well, yeah, thats why no one has taken him. he tried to extort swihart and mookie from the sox and cherington's response was LOL BYE. i kept hoping amaro would get desperate, the desperation would foster stupidity and sox could get hamels with brock holt and some slightly less dope prospects but that didnt happen

maybe now he's for real desperate and cards could finagle a good hamels deal

i'm sure hamels will move at some point this season, but i doubt it will be to the cardinals. getting hamels would require trading some prospects in return, and that's not the cardinals strength right now.the cardinals have had good depth for so long that relatively few people are noticing that they're kind of dry right now (they graduated their top prospects over the last year or two, and they have low minors prospects but it'll be a couple years til they make an impact). if anything, i'd look to the cardinals to make some moves to bolster their mid-to-high minors depth, not take away from it.

i imagine ruben is asking for kaminsky, but i don't think the cards want to do that

- kozma and greg garcia are being given some training as emergency catchers (link)

"I know how to call a game," Kozma said. "I can see all of Yadi's signs. Whenever he makes a mound visit, I'm right there. ... Getting back there and actually doing it, the ball will be a little different than being at the plate or seeing it. I will be able to see a lot more."

this reminds me of the thing where sarah palin could see russia

wainwright's tum tum has a widdle hurtle wurtle

baseball players love when you treat their injuries like a little kid's scraped knee

getting the bad feeling Garcia takes SP5 out of camp, so we can dick around with Martinez being not starter or a reliever or maybe lets stretch him out at Memphis for a month and then wait oh the seasons over n/m.

i have mixed feelings. i really want martinez to be SP5, entire season, and blow everyone out of the water. watching him in middle reliever purgatory for another year would be agonizing.

but on the other hand, martinez has never pitched more than 105 innings in a year. so if what i want happens - martinez gets a real chance and is successful - i'm not sure that the cards would want him pitching 180+ innings. also, if garcia is even in the conversation for SP5 coming out of spring training, that's ultimately a good problem to have. maybe, in the scenario that both garcia and martinez (leaving marco gonzalez out of the equation for now) are performing well, the front office might respond by trading away one of them at the deadline?

i dunno. sadly, i've gotten used to some terrible injury in the starting rotation popping up during spring training, so the problem might solve itself in a manner that disappoints everyone.

i'm sure everyone besides me and bnw will be happy to contemplate this, but i also have the bad feeling that this might be the last chance for the cardinals, at least for the next few years. holliday is 35. peralta is 33. yadi is 32. wainwright is 33. taveras might have been able to carry the weight offensively, but now that he's gone, piscotty and grichuk might be serviceable but they don't excite me. there's some good talent in the low minors but it's going to take a few years, and i'm not sure that the current crew will be able to bridge the gap until then.

don't get me wrong, i think they'll still be good for the next few years. the starting pitching will hopefully continue to be good, with an aging wainwright + wacha, martinez, gonzalez, lynn. but things seem to be trending in a negative direction. hopefully they make this year count!

first lineup of the year. :)

https://mlblogsbucsbits.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/wpid-img_20150305_080621768.jpg?w=227&h=391

Yay! I try to keep bullish on the long term mainly because of Mo and Dewitt. If Heyward has a solid year he'll probably be part of it. I wish there were some creative way to manage the innings load b/c you are right, envisioning 30 starts from either Martinez or Wacha seems nuts.

i was hoping it would be on mlb.tv, but i guess not. although maybe it'll still be on radio? i'm itching for some baseball.

y'know, you guys seem so nice - like the rational, reasonable cards fans - and then this shit happens http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/03/04/st-louis-cardinals-adam-wainwright-jason-heyward/24397651/

http://deadspin.com/moron-usa-today-columnist-thinks-the-cardinals-poop-van-1689616561

lol xp

"Vanilla are our colored sprinkles.''

dammit, i should have waited a few more days to make this thread

both the column and deadspin reaction fit the boring narrative so nightengale wins a brand new poop van

true, it's not like drew magary isn't a pile of canned schtick himself - sub-taibbi piles of adjectives, quarter-smart-at-best profane witticisms, facile/transparent attempts to pretend to be above sports cliches while also steering into every possible skid of bullshit machismo - just another side of the same shitsmeared sportswriter coin

btw do you get decent mileage on a poop van? sounds sustainable tbh

@pgammo
Carlos Martinez FB, CB, great change, worked quickly like Buerhle..."Midseason great " said Marlin exec

can we change the name of the thread to "the cardinal poop van"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_vZsMLWYAAdYYx.jpg

wow, i don't remember seeing those before! What year is that from? '75?

'76 -- i think it was a bicentennial thing? pirates did it too, obviously, not sure who (if anyone) else

yikes.

i was thinking that analyses of stolen bases that focus just on successful attempts and exclude caught stealing are really misleading. the cardinals were near the bottom of the league in successful stolen attempts, so i was hoping that by looking at CS's and SB% they might come out a little better.

nope (sorted by SB%):

http://i.imgur.com/xGS4xvq.jpg

what is the break-even point on SB% where you're doing more harm than good by attempting to steal bases? 66% if I remember? If Matheny's steal sign would have been disabled last year entirely, it would have improved the team.

whooops, that was sorted by net stolen bases. here's the SB% sorted one:

http://i.imgur.com/pJJ28SE.jpg

(either way they come out looking bad)

shit. i just happened to tune in to the game against the marlins, just in time to watch tommy pham dive for a ball and get injured (for the millionth time). feel bad for him.

the 'extremely fragile' tag is often unjustly applied, i think, but tommy pham is extremely fragile. he dived, sure, but there didn't appear to be anything that twisted or hit the ground awkwardly.

:(

ugh, these uniforms

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAUQPI7WwAEIxqc.jpg

i read yesterday that Patrick's color was actually blue, too late to email Manfred.

nice overview of many notable names from the farm (and others that I've never heard of): http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/evaluating-the-prospects-st-louis-cardinals/

so there's no announcement from matheny or anything, but...carlos martinez isn't going to make the rotation, is he. sigh. prediction: garcia will start the season as 5th starter, with martinez in the bullpen as the setup lefty guy (a role they're lacking right now) and marco in AAA. eventually garcia will get injured (or someone else will). martinez won't be stretched out as a SP, so gonzalez will get the nod for SP. in spring training 2016 rumors will fly that maybe THIS year martinez gets a shot at the starting rotation. goddammit.

Well maybe it'll payoff when he's got less miles on his arm down the road. In happier news - Wacha spring 1.76 ERA 16k 1bb

Former Cardinals player punched at St. Louis County gas station after racial slur

Former Cardinals outfielder Curt Ford said Thursday he may move away from the St. Louis area in disgust after being punched in an allegedly unprovoked, race-related attack at a gas station.

"I'm going to let the authorities handle this situation, but I've had enough of St. Louis," Ford said in a phone interview Thursday. "You hear about this kind of stuff happening, and I always knew it existed because of my previous experience working here in St. Louis, but you try to keep away from it and there is just no way you can do that unless you stay inside like a hermit.

bourjos doubled today! now 4-for-33

martinez = fifth starter

gonzales to memphis

on the other hand, pete kozma has made the team

he's out of options.

we are all, sadly, out of options

at least this should the final year for kozma. i'm much more comfortable with his role on the team now, with peralta and wong comfortably in front of him. as long as you just focus on his decent defense and assume that every single one of his plate appearances will end up as a weak groundball to 2B, he's not as much of a let down.

carlos villanueva: swinger

Villanueva has never made more than 16 starts or logged fewer than 33 appearances. With the exception of one season he spent fully in the bullpen, he has also always made at least five starts. That puts him in some extremely rarified air.

When it comes to moving back-and-forth from bullpen to rotation, nobody swings like Carlos Villanueva.

Setting the parameters for what constitutes a swingman is a bit arbitrary, but Ben's initial framework seems solid - 16 or fewer starts and at least 33 appearances. That means we're talking about guys who made at least twice as many appearances in relief as starting. We'll also need some kind of floor to separate guys who were really just relievers who only made a couple of token starts. I'll set the minimum at five starts - the fewest Villanueva has made.

Under those conditions, Carlos Villanueva has qualified as a "swingman" in seven different seasons. No other pitcher since 1920 has met those conditions in more than five. (If you bump the minimum number of starts down to three, Villanueva is still the king, though a couple others come closer with six seasons.)

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/uTI1KzogLSeYJn6OQYbbKPkG0b0=/0x1419:3264x3595/730x487/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/45626576/usa-today-7849024.0.jpg

Lindbergh w/ Wrath of Khan ref

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-nl-central-preview-cardinals-pirates-cubs-brewers-reds/

the rotation is set:

wainwright
lynn
lackey
wacha
martinez

surprised to see wacha down at #4, considering that he has a good chance of outpitching wainwright this year (that may be overly optimistic, but not by much), but maybe it has to do with managing his IP count?

did the cards have to pay lackey real money or did he honor that injury clause & is only making the league minimum?

league minimum. there's been discussion of paying him more, but only if it's part of an extension deal, and lackey seems to be holding out for free agency.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens. I think Jay will make it because he's a Matheny guy with a contract. I could maaaaybe see him deserving a bench role, but I have the sinking feeling that Jay will be starting instead of Pham (I'd prefer Grichuk over both but if he can't throw 100% he shouldn't be out there)

But cardinals seem to be signalling that Heyward will be starting in CF, so who knows

after watching or listening to nearly all the games this year, i am going to completely miss the cubs/pirates WC game today, and then miss the first 2 games of the NLDS as i'll be out in the woods sans internet. siiiiigh

jaded winner

I fully expect to emerge from the wilderness to learn that the cardinals have lost the first two games of the NLDS, 6-1 and 3-0, with that Grichuk is starting in CF and has been kicking the ball back into the infield because he's not able to raise his arm above his shoulder

grizzled Lackey Game 1 Starter

i'm not sure it makes too much of a difference (as long as lackey/garcia are 1 or 2 and lynn/wacha are 3 or 4), but you would think they'd wait until after the game tonight to decide so they know who they're playing, which rotation alignment would match up best against either the cubs or pirates.

i wasn't too optimistic about this playoff run even a month ago, but when martinez went down i kind of lost all hope. it would so useful to have one more guy with the upside to completely dominate a game.

pshaw, one more guy. isn't cardinals devil magic equivalent to like 3 more guys

Perhaps this season is the Cardinals' New Jersey.

don't make light of our devil magic. this is a very difficult time of the year for cardinal fans. so many ritual sacrifices, preparing of the she-goat for evil ceremonies, smearing blood in upside-down cross formations all over forgotten cellars. it gets exhausting after a while.

but whatever it takes to get lance lynn through to the 5th inning with fewer than 4 walks and 95 pitches, somehow. it's worth it

http://cdn.patch.com/users/22068930/2014/06/T800x600/60ecf348a94290afd09ad1915df8e6a4.jpg

cardinals need to end their 4 year long world series drought so their poor fanbase can find solace

i think you are going to sleep ten years in your cabin and discover theyve been raptured

how about some good news

Impending free-agent Jason Heyward on possibly coming back to #STLCards: "This is definitely an ideal situation."

— Jenifer Langosch (@LangoschMLB) October 14, 2015

33 years ago today i became a willie mcgee fan 4 lyfe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gnEZ8NFI-E

plus two homers, nbd

can't wait until Grich hits 25 homers next year and we all reminisce about the time MM pinch hit Greg Garcia for him... in a playoff elimination game.

he started grichuk so he could get that great defense in CF from his broken arm, and then pinch hit with garcia. i've been suppressing all memories of the NLDS but that one does stick out. did anyone conduct the customary post-elimination "wtf were you thinking?" interview with Matheny this year?

St. Louis Cardinals ‏@Cardinals 18m18 minutes ago
Yadier Molina with have surgery on his thumb today. Will be without baseball activity for 8-12 weeks. Should be ready for Spring Training.

still couldn't bat him 8th without a thumb b/c *feelings*

i do remember Cosell intoning "wil-LIE muh-GEE."

alex reyes, 50-game suspension for w33d

mlb got no chill. bank some innings for him.

lance lynn had tommy john today, out for 2016

oof

#SIGNDAVIDPRICE

so that the cubs don't get him, also

i dont think he likes DA LORD enough

i was mostly joking (i'd rather they spend the money to get heyward) and the cardinals aren't too prone to panic signings. without lynn, the rotation would be something like:

wainwright
carlos martinez
jaime garcia
michael wacha
cooney/lyons for the first part of the year, then hopefully a bounceback marco gonzalez or even noted bob marley fan alex reyes later in the year

he's from tennessee; he'll get by xp

(but if they did end up getting price i have to admit i'd be pretty pumped, especially if they didn't sign him through his age-43 year or something)

speaking of bob marley fan alex reyes, apparently the remainder of the Arizona Fall League (10 games) counts towards his suspension, so at least it'll only be a 40 game suspension. still, awful timing, because the lynn thing would have made his path to the big leagues that much easier.

tbh i think reyes' suspension is almost a good thing. suspending someone from afl games is a joke; he'd have pitched like five more innings anyway. it keeps his innings total down for next year -- he's never thrown more than 109 in a season. so he skips the first six weeks, gets warmed up until after the super-two deadline, and is in good shape to help st. louis later in the season.

also it seems to have brought to light the difference in the way minor leaguers are treated for this stuff vs. big leaguers, which is probably good

i was mostly joking (i'd rather they spend the money to get heyward) and the cardinals aren't too prone to panic signings. without lynn, the rotation would be something like:

wainwright
carlos martinez
jaime garcia
michael wacha
cooney/lyons for the first part of the year, then hopefully a bounceback marco gonzalez or even noted bob marley fan alex reyes later in the year

― Karl Malone, Tuesday, November 10, 2015 4:42 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

damn no love for the lackeyman

i don't mind the ol' saltster but he's a free agent

if they could get him for 2 years he might be worth overpaying a little, but he'll likely get 3 years at 14 or 15 per year and that's a little too salty

rapture

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca0pfqaUMAAYd_s.jpg

lol'd more at RS Nation tbh

https://twitter.com/vivaelbirdos/status/697783749333934081

Several international sources believe the Cardinals are preparing to exceed their upcoming international bonus pool, joining the Padres, Braves and Nationals as teams going over on July 2.

excellent

one of the prospects at spring training in florida is named Daniel Poncedeleon

That guy is in camp purely because of his name.

Want to start the new thread? I'd do it but I'm awful at coming up with punny thread titles

does anyone here actually like the cardinals tho

Doesn't everyone love the cardinals??

just The Way!

very tempted to start Hacking Ass: the 2016 St. Louis Cardinals Thread

commit

very tempted to start Hacking Ass: the 2016 St. Louis Cardinals Thread

that would be understandable in pretty much any year from 1908-2015, but given the likelihood of a total beatdown in 2016, the etymology of the thread title might begin to make me freak out around late summer

no way a Cubbie fan starts the thread unless we can name yours :[

Haters gonna hate
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o85xFLWq8XpFW84Rq/giphy.gif