His stirring speech in that Space Ghost episode cemented it.
― WilliamC, Thursday, 14 December 2017 16:40 (six years ago) link
If you're appalled by Jack Morris, be happy they're not inducting the baseball equivalent of Bon Jovi, Dire Straits, or the Moody Blues. (If you count Morris as worse than any of those three, we either hear music or evaluate baseball players very differently.)
― clemenza, Thursday, 14 December 2017 17:41 (six years ago) link
y'know, jack morris and dire straits isn't the woooorst baseball to music comp...
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 14 December 2017 17:46 (six years ago) link
Bon Jovi is Trevor Hoffman, he comes into the game when the team is halfway there to a victory.
― omar little, Thursday, 14 December 2017 18:20 (six years ago) link
yeah sort of feel like those are pretty good morris/garvey analogs....
― k3vin k., Thursday, 14 December 2017 20:55 (six years ago) link
And you can throw the Cars in there too--didn't realize they were in.
― clemenza, Thursday, 14 December 2017 22:36 (six years ago) link
On the HOF tracker it's interesting to see the net gain votes. Edgar and vlad are doing well enough that induction seems solid for both of them, but Walker has picked up 18 votes already from only small portion of ballots. Still only around 42% but that's huge.
― omar little, Thursday, 21 December 2017 22:45 (six years ago) link
Very surprised that Thome's holding at 97%. That's great, I'm all for it. I assumed he was going to be this year's Bagwell/Piazza, made to wait a couple of extra years because of suspicion. That gray area may have vanished permanently.
― clemenza, Friday, 22 December 2017 01:27 (six years ago) link
as Morbs said, no smoking needle (also no actual suspicion cast his way, iirc.)
― omar little, Friday, 22 December 2017 02:02 (six years ago) link
My own recollection is that he was always mentioned on the list of suspected users, but when I do a search of "Jim Thome steroids," the first page of results are all about how he was clean. So I guess I'm misremembering.
― clemenza, Friday, 22 December 2017 02:46 (six years ago) link
Not helpful if you're of the belief he should be in:
http://www.12up.com/posts/5932863-curt-schilling-caught-praising-white-supremacist-during-radio-show?a_aid=36534
― clemenza, Saturday, 30 December 2017 19:10 (six years ago) link
curt schilling should be elected into the hall of fame and then thrown into the bottom of the ocean
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 30 December 2017 19:17 (six years ago) link
good plan imho
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 30 December 2017 19:18 (six years ago) link
Edgar is currently at 80% on the HOF tracker. not sure how it'll play out the rest of the way but he seems like a safe bet for induction next year at least.
Larry Walker is at 40%, he's got two more years on the ballot, I could see a major push the next couple years. people seem to be coming around on him.
― omar little, Saturday, 30 December 2017 19:19 (six years ago) link
Emphatic Yes for both of them.
― clemenza, Saturday, 30 December 2017 19:25 (six years ago) link
andruw jones is at 5.7%. hope he doesn't get jim edmonds'd
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 30 December 2017 19:28 (six years ago) link
I'm laughing at that URL: "caught praising white supremacist during radio show." I picture Schilling furtively looking around to see if anyone's watching. It's a radio show--chances are, this won't remain a secret.
― clemenza, Saturday, 30 December 2017 19:31 (six years ago) link
meanwhile chipper jones is at 98.6%
just checked to see which jones put up higher fWARs during their years together:
1997: tie (3.7 to 3.7)1998: chipper (7.1 to 7.0)1999: chipper (7.3 to 6.9)2000: andruw (7.7 to 6.0)2001:chipper (6.1 to 4.9)2002: andruw (6.3 to 5.9)2003: andruw (5.2 to 3.9)2004: andruw (5.3 to 3.3)2005: andruw (7.9 to 4.9) *chipper injured2006: andruw (6.0 to 3.9) *chipper injured2007: chipper (3.3 to 6.9)
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 30 December 2017 19:40 (six years ago) link
There's a decent chance we'll get five inductees from this batch which would be a good deck-clearing.
― omar little, Saturday, 30 December 2017 22:22 (six years ago) link
def
― k3vin k., Sunday, 31 December 2017 01:34 (six years ago) link
Neat comparison unearthed by Posnanski in an SI column:
Player 1: 254-186, 105 ERA+, 3,824 innings, 2,478 Ks, 1,390 Walks, 1.296 WHIP, 49.8 combo WAR
Player 2: 258-195, 105 ERA+, 3,908 innings, 2,342 Ks, 1,117 Walks, 1.323 WHIP, 49.0 combo WAR
Pretty darned similar, yes? Player 1 is newest Hall of Famer Jack Morris. Player 2 is Jamie Moyer, obviously, but discounting his final two seasons so we could get the innings to roughly match up. Moyer added 11 more wins, 14 more losses and various other things to his totals in those two seasons, when he was 47 and 49.
http://www.mlb.com/news/jamie-moyer-was-a-talented-underrated-pitcher/c-264135260
― clemenza, Wednesday, 3 January 2018 17:18 (six years ago) link
Jamie Moyer also got lost in Chicago and really did not get it together as a starter until he was about 30. Dave Stewart had a similar career arc, though he was a good reliever when he first came up with the Dodgers then lost it and came kinda out of nowhere to have good decade as a starter.
― earlnash, Thursday, 4 January 2018 01:16 (six years ago) link
this seems more like an argument that jack morris shouldn't be in the hall of fame
― mookieproof, Thursday, 4 January 2018 01:18 (six years ago) link
makes sense to me
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 4 January 2018 01:20 (six years ago) link
i still maintain that Jack Morris' best career move w/r/t getting into the HOF was choosing to grow a bushy mustache.
― omar little, Thursday, 4 January 2018 01:28 (six years ago) link
tbf i kinda like him as a broadcaster -- he's just as full of shit as the rest of them, but he's very quiet about it
― mookieproof, Thursday, 4 January 2018 01:46 (six years ago) link
the 50 best players left off of the HOF ballot entirely:
http://www.hallofstats.com/articles/willie-davis-left-off-bbwaa-ballot
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 7 January 2018 18:08 (six years ago) link
Great list. I wonder if a) you could fill out a lineup card, filling every position, and b) with an average pitching staff, could that lineup win a divisional title?
― clemenza, Sunday, 7 January 2018 21:43 (six years ago) link
1b Bob Allison 2b Bill Doran SS Scott Fletcher 3b Jim Gilliam LF Von Hayes CF Willie Davis RF Jesse Barfield C Mike Scoscia RotationBrandon Webb Mark Gubicza Teddy Higuera Javier Vazquez
bullpen Keith Foulke Joe Nuxhall Mike Morgan
Pretty good team.
― earlnash, Monday, 8 January 2018 00:37 (six years ago) link
If the stars were aligned right, definitely--looks like all the position players and starters had, at a minimum, career years of ~5.0 WAR, sometimes much higher (Higuera was over 9.0 one year).
― clemenza, Tuesday, 9 January 2018 04:18 (six years ago) link
vlad was one of my favorite players as a kid, so I'm glad he's going in, but the strength of his support is strange to me: he doesn't really have any of the usual counting stats, no real postseason success... does have that MVP tho, and being cool as hell to watch
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 9 January 2018 06:29 (six years ago) link
Guerrero was better, but his candidacy looks very much like Puckett's to me. They're almost identical in WAR/650 PA--4.8 Vlad, 4.7 Kirby--and, 1) short careers, 2) retired when they were still playing well, 3) high average, low walks, 4) (most important) colourful players most fans loved (before we knew the whole story about about Puckett). This is where I'm okay with not treating the HOF as just your career box--I'm okay with letting narrative or whatever you want to call it creep in. In the Keith Law book, he identifies Puckett as a bad HOF choice. (Don't have the book on hand--I think he was more negative than that.) Putting the post-career revelations aside, I'm glad Puckett's in the HOF--I want him in there.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 9 January 2018 12:38 (six years ago) link
i agree on Puckett, i have no problem w/his inclusion.
HOF Tracker has 45.8% of the ballots tallied. Jones, Guerrero, and Thome are easily over 90% (in that order), while Hoffman remains around 78% but since he added enough votes from last year he's in. Edgar is at 80.9%!
Larry Walker has been eliminated but still remains around 40%, he's picked up a ton.
Bonds/Clemens both exactly at 64.9%. Mussina is at 73.2% but i don't think he's gonna do it this year. Schilling is at 65.5% and i wonder if next season he'll drop a few points...
― omar little, Thursday, 18 January 2018 02:20 (six years ago) link
Announcement at 6pm. I guess it's thought there could be the 5 inductees mentioned above by omar, and I'm not sold on Vlad and Hoffman.Fortunately the joint is a joke til Bonds and Clemens are in.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 15:56 (six years ago) link
Edgar is trending down a bit w/the tracker now, i suspect not enough of the voters whose ballots have yet to be revealed will vote for him. that's just my guess. Schilling has dropped even further behind Mussina. i think him being a bigot comprised of literal shit vs Moose being a seemingly likable low-key crossword puzzle expert is the difference there, despite their relatively equal bonafides.
― omar little, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 18:19 (six years ago) link
Yeah, looks ominous for Edgar--77.5%, about 60% of the ballots public, no margin of error. He and Hoffman (79.1%) are close, but I bet Edgar voters are much more inclined to reveal their ballots ahead of time than Hoffman voters. Andruw Jones (5.7%) may well fall off. (While I don't think he belongs, I don't want him off, either, not while defensive starts are a work-in-progress.)
― clemenza, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:36 (six years ago) link
MLBNHall of Fame Election Announcement03:00-08:00
― Andy K, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:03 (six years ago) link
hoffman's in, edgar's out
― reggae mike love (polyphonic), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:21 (six years ago) link
no go for edgar
― YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:21 (six years ago) link
Jones squeaked by:
Guerrero, 92.9Jones, 92.2 Thome, 89.9Hoffman, 79.9---Edgar Martinez, 70.4Mike Mussina, 63.5Roger Clemens, 57.3Barry Bonds, 56.4Curt Schilling, 51.2Omar Vizquel, 37Larry Walker, 34.1Fred McGriff, 23.2Manny Ramirez, 22Jeff Kent, 14.5Gary Sheffield, 11.1Billy Wagner, 11.1Scott Rolen, 10.2Sammy Sosa, 7.8Andruw Jones, 7.2 ---Jamie Moyer, 2.4Johan Santana, 2.4Johnny Damon, 1.9Hideki Matsui, 0.9Chris Carpenter, 0.5Kerry Wood, 0.5Livan Hernandez, 0.2Carlos Lee, 0.2
Martinez a cinch for next year, looks good for Mussina; Schilling gained about 6%, still has four years left...
― clemenza, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:42 (six years ago) link
(Meaning Andruw, obviously.)
― clemenza, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:43 (six years ago) link
Next year: Rivera, Halladay, and Edgar in; I doubt they'll put in four players two years in a row, so Mussina falls a bit short. Bonds and Clemens...pick up a few points? (They only picked up 2-3 this year, thought there'd be a bigger jump.)
― clemenza, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:51 (six years ago) link
Roger Clemens, 57.3Barry Bonds, 56.4
O_o wonder who voted for clemens and not bonds?
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:57 (six years ago) link
Curious to see how Helton fares. Not anticipating him coming close. Walker seems like the better Rockies bet but he'd need to make an unprecedented move to get in via the BBWAA.
I bet Mussina gets to the low 70s next year and in the year after.
Would not be surprised to see Schilling hold steady for a couple more years with little movement.
― omar little, Thursday, 25 January 2018 00:02 (six years ago) link
still bizarre to me that vlad is somehow 21% more worthy this year than last
― mookieproof, Thursday, 25 January 2018 00:27 (six years ago) link
combo of there being more room now and him not being a "first ballot guy"
hoffman's election is a joke but whatever
― k3vin k., Thursday, 25 January 2018 00:46 (six years ago) link
sorry, but you can't be talking about the two-time Rolaids Relief Pitcher of the Year. A guy whose WAR puts him in Joe Nathan territory and 4 pts ahead of the likes of Bob Stanley and John Franco.
― omar little, Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:11 (six years ago) link
lol omar
― k3vin k., Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:30 (six years ago) link
he pitched 1087 innings in his career, with a 2.87 ERA (127th all-time among pitchers with >1000 IP) and 3.08 FIP (175th), and 71 ERA- (14th) and 73 FIP- (8th)
the rest of the FIP- all-time top ten (>1000 IP):
1 Rivera (62)2 Kershaw (66)3 Pedro Martinez (68)4 Sale (71)5 Clemens (71)6 Kluber (72)7 Rube Waddell (72)8 Hoffman (73)9 Strasburg (73)10 Randy Johnson (73)
kind of surprised to see Strasburg in the top ten! 11 (Doug Jones) and 12 (Lee Smith!!) are kinda interesting too
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:34 (six years ago) link
rube was my man
― mookieproof, Thursday, 25 January 2018 02:36 (six years ago) link