2014-15 Hall of Fame elections

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yeah the guys who are keeping the alleged roiders outta the hall but not supporting the supposedly honorable guys who played the right way is kind of amazing to me, i'd think crime dog would be trucking along with 50% of the vote if those voters were honest about their intent.

LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 17:48 (nine years ago) link

olerud, mcgriff, delgado, none of these people is a hall of famer, come on

k3vin k., Wednesday, 7 January 2015 18:19 (nine years ago) link

olerud's batting helmet belongs in the hof, but that's it

♪♫_\o/_♫♪ (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 18:21 (nine years ago) link

i think what he's saying (correct me if i'm wrong) is olerud, mcgriff, and delgado are only HOFers if you measure them by the perez/rice standard

LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 18:22 (nine years ago) link

rosenthal's outrage over delgado's falling off the ballot is pretty ridiculous. he's maybe the 20th best candidate on the ballot, are you really complaining that more people didnt vote for him? are YOU gonna vote for him?

k3vin k., Wednesday, 7 January 2015 18:23 (nine years ago) link

at their peaks (which were brief), those guys were maaaybe HOF caliber. but they're like mattingly in that regard. except his peak was higher (albeit even briefer.)

LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 18:24 (nine years ago) link

well delgado's peak wasn't brief i guess, but his stats weren't outlandishly great by the standard of his peers except for a couple seasons.

LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 18:24 (nine years ago) link

he was only around for 14 full seasons, i think that's what has done him the most disservice.

AKA Thermo Thinwall (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 18:27 (nine years ago) link

See above. It’s mind-blowing when people say that votes for players such as Boone or Erstad indicates that the process is broken. No, it simply indicates that one or two voters chose to make a stand on behalf of a player they admired. Those voters almost certainly had empty slots on their ballots. Who exactly is getting hurt?

uh, guys like piazza and raines?

k3vin k., Wednesday, 7 January 2015 18:39 (nine years ago) link

and delgado!!

k3vin k., Wednesday, 7 January 2015 18:40 (nine years ago) link

the fellas

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6w6ivVCIAEIF4U.jpg:large

polyphonic, Wednesday, 7 January 2015 18:56 (nine years ago) link

I don't think Delgado dropping off is cause for outrage--none of this is--I just think his career was worthy of something longer than a one-year stay on the ballot. But I'm aware of the contradiction: he only stays on the ballot if enough people vote for him, and if he's not a Hall of Famer, why vote for him (especially on an over-crowded ballot)? I guess I just want these things to magically work out.

clemenza, Wednesday, 7 January 2015 19:00 (nine years ago) link

Holy cow, Randy Johnson was tall.

clemenza, Wednesday, 7 January 2015 19:00 (nine years ago) link

yeah you can't defend players' cases based on the lesser guys in there

Perez's "value" numbers are actually a little better than I expected, as his stathead rep is that he got in solely cuz he's in the BBWAA's fave category (1B or OF with big RBI totals).

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 19:18 (nine years ago) link

ie if Olerud had had more power with proportionally fewer hits and walks he might be in.

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 19:19 (nine years ago) link

Holy cow, Randy Johnson was tall.

What, did you think he was called the Big Unit because he had a giant cock?

Baruch Olbermann (Leee), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 19:46 (nine years ago) link

perhaps at the ceremony he will just hold Biggio aloft instead of his plaque

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 19:48 (nine years ago) link

before I look it up i'm going to guess how many games Biggio caught in the majors. i'll say 120.

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 19:49 (nine years ago) link

He was a catcher for a lot longer than part of a season, no??

Baruch Olbermann (Leee), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 19:51 (nine years ago) link

man, 428! I had no memory that he caught for his first 4 seasons.

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 19:52 (nine years ago) link

age 26 when he moved to 2B fulltime.

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 19:53 (nine years ago) link

(Was kidding about Randy...)

clemenza, Wednesday, 7 January 2015 20:17 (nine years ago) link

tbf the big unit may well have had a giant unit

i'm tellin you it was kenard (slothroprhymes), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 20:18 (nine years ago) link

it would have to be in order to appear proportional. it's tough out there for big guys, i bet

♪♫_\o/_♫♪ (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 7 January 2015 20:25 (nine years ago) link

nah

mookieproof, Wednesday, 7 January 2015 20:27 (nine years ago) link

man, 428! I had no memory that he caught for his first 4 seasons.

He was a legit All-Star at catcher too!

Re: Delgado, if you're comparing him to the average HOF first baseman he has a case, but no, I don't think he belongs in the HOF based on that standard. But many writers have pointed out that there are now twice as many teams compared to pre-expansion era baseball and about the same number of HOFers being elected per decade. With more great players to pick from, standards are effectively going up which gives Clark, Delgado, Olerud, etc. a better argument for induction.

I can't blame anyone for not voting for Delgado or hell even Raines because they weren't one of the top ten players on the ballot this year. The ten player maximum is a dumb rule but it's the rule.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Wednesday, 7 January 2015 22:05 (nine years ago) link

curt schilling is claiming he's losing votes for being a republican, also claiming john smoltz is a democrat, which based on the public record is debatable at best.

call all destroyer, Thursday, 8 January 2015 03:08 (nine years ago) link

curt schilling claims a lot of things.

AKA Thermo Thinwall (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 8 January 2015 05:31 (nine years ago) link

hmmm – don't see any post about it on twitter, but he is also stumping for Raines at least!

AKA Thermo Thinwall (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 8 January 2015 05:33 (nine years ago) link

Stopped Clock Theorem.

Baruch Olbermann (Leee), Thursday, 8 January 2015 18:21 (nine years ago) link

I imagine Schilling is being marginally punished for being a loudmouth--maybe a handful of votes--but if political leanings have ever entered into HOF or awards voting, I've never read about it. I know there was lots of puzzlement in 1960 when Jackie Robinson supported Nixon, and there was category-unto-himself John Rocker, but I'm sure vocally left-leaning players in the late '60s got far more grief from the Dick Youngs of the media than Schilling would ever get today.

clemenza, Thursday, 8 January 2015 19:56 (nine years ago) link

(Especially left-leaning players who didn't look like Mickey Mantle, so to speak.)

clemenza, Thursday, 8 January 2015 20:02 (nine years ago) link

yeah, left-leaning players, I barely remember 'em

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 8 January 2015 20:18 (nine years ago) link

they read my hof q on BBP podcast today so I got that going for me

Bringing the mosh (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Thursday, 8 January 2015 20:40 (nine years ago) link

i'd guess that the BBWAA votes mostly republican, at least the old guard

k3vin k., Friday, 9 January 2015 05:08 (nine years ago) link

most corn fed white boys from bumblefuck arkansas aren't democrats

Bringing the mosh (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Friday, 9 January 2015 14:46 (nine years ago) link

do they really eat a lotta corn in AR, i thought it was yankees

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 January 2015 14:50 (nine years ago) link

chitlin circuit then

Bringing the mosh (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Friday, 9 January 2015 15:09 (nine years ago) link

Mickey Morandini ftw

https://twitter.com/BenLindbergh/status/553576841408020481

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Friday, 9 January 2015 16:36 (nine years ago) link

my man

mookieproof, Friday, 9 January 2015 17:44 (nine years ago) link

The newest members of the Baseball Hall of Fame will be revealed on Tuesday, and three overpowering aces of the 1990s — Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez and John Smoltz — seem certain to be cast in bronze in Cooperstown.

Among them, they made 26 All-Star teams and won nine Cy Young Awards. They collected 735 victories and 11,113 strikeouts. Some of the game’s greatest hitters quaked in their presence.

Not Mickey Morandini.

Morandini was a second baseman for 11 seasons in the majors. He once turned an unassisted triple play, and Baseball-Reference.com lists his nickname as Dandy Little Glove Man. He never hit .300 in a season, but when he faced those pitchers, he became Rogers Hornsby. Morandini stepped into the box more than 100 times against Smoltz, Martinez and Johnson and hit .352.
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“There’s just certain pitchers you pick up the ball well against and certain pitchers you don’t,” Morandini said Monday from his home in Pennsylvania. “I can name a handful of pitchers who threw probably 75 or 80 miles an hour, and I couldn’t sniff them. I can’t tell you how many ground balls to second I hit off Bob Tewksbury.”

It is one of baseball’s endearing charms that an otherwise ordinary player can sometimes own a legend. Over three starts in 1965, at the height of his powers, Sandy Koufax was flummoxed by a jocular backup catcher for the Cardinals. The catcher went 5 for 6 with a double and a home run off Koufax in those games, and then Koufax walked him intentionally.

The catcher’s name? Bob Uecker.

Morandini was a better hitter than Uecker, who turned his .200 average into a career in comedy and broadcasting. Morandini, a Class AAA coach who aspires to manage in the majors, batted .268 for his career. He appeared in the All-Star Game in 1995 as a backup to Craig Biggio, who could also be elected on Tuesday.

But while Morandini could handle Smoltz (.344), he was hopeless against Tewksbury (.133). He faced Martinez 30 times and hit .370. He faced Omar Daal 30 times and hit .185. He could always turn on fastballs, he said.

“It was a gift, I guess,” Morandini said. “A lot of repetition, a lot of work.”

The games against Smoltz and Martinez, though, were more fun than work. Mariano Duncan, a right-handed hitter who was Morandini’s teammate with the Phillies, could not touch Smoltz’s slider and dreaded the thought of facing him. Morandini, a left-handed hitter, would play instead and hack at the first fastball.

“Normally when Smoltz got me, he had a good split-finger, and on days when he also had that slider working and it was really sharp, he’d give guys fits,” Morandini said. “That’s why you never wanted to be up there with two strikes off him.”

Smoltz was a master of the postseason, 15-4 in his career, but his first loss came to Morandini’s Phillies in the 1993 National League Championship Series. Smoltz fanned 10 but allowed two unearned runs and a pivotal single to a pitcher, Danny Jackson. Before he could pitch a seventh game, the Phillies won the series in six when Morandini knocked out Greg Maddux with a triple.
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That was also the season Morandini first faced Martinez, before Martinez was traded from the Dodgers to the Expos for Delino DeShields. Morandini would often face Martinez in the N.L. East and remembers how Martinez’s curveball and changeup improved in Montreal, how he learned to pitch and not just throw heat.

Morandini also remembers a brawl when Martinez charged the mound against Mike Williams, firing his helmet in a rage.

“Pedro was just wild enough that you couldn’t get comfortable at times,” Morandini said. “He’d put you on your butt any time he wanted to, and then when he went to the A.L. and didn’t have to hit, he could do it at will.”

Still, Morandini’s fastball-hunting plan often worked. It was less effective against Johnson, whom he faced while playing for the Cubs in 1999. A right-handed hitter, Gary Gaetti, had become ill, putting a reluctant Morandini into action.

“As frightening as it was for some right-handers to face Pedro and Smoltz, that’s how frightening it was for me to face Randy,” Morandini said. “He was dealing. I don’t even think I swung in my first at-bat because I really didn’t see it.”

Yet somehow, after that strikeout, Morandini pulled a first-pitch triple down the right-field line in his next at-bat. His reward: a starting assignment against Johnson the next time the Cubs faced the Diamondbacks. Morandini went 0 for 3 with a walk that day but did not strike out.

Johnson led Arizona to a championship in 2001 with help from Curt Schilling, a teammate of Morandini’s in Philadelphia who is also up for the Hall. The voters have a blind spot regarding Schilling, who has not topped 40 percent in his first two appearances on the ballot despite the best strikeout-to-walk ratio of the 20th century.

“He thrived in big games,” Morandini said of Schilling, who was 11-2 in the postseason. “That’s what he lived for.”

One of the biggest games of Morandini’s career, at least at the time, was on Sept. 8, 1998, when Mark McGwire trotted right by him as he rounded the bases on his 62nd home run. It broke Roger Maris’s single-season homer record and was heralded as an epic moment.

Now McGwire, who has never received even 25 percent of the vote, is in danger of falling off the ballot. Like other giants of the time — Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens — McGwire has ties to steroids that give him little hope of election.

“It’s tainted,” Morandini said. “It’ll always be tainted. There were some of the best athletes to ever play the game in that era, but are they Hall of Famers? Probably, by their stats. But there will always be some issues with what went on, and a lot of those guys obviously aren’t going to make it.”

Still, some players will make it on Tuesday, most likely that group of aces. They all achieved excellence, and they all felt the wrath of a dandy little glove man named Mickey.

LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Friday, 9 January 2015 17:48 (nine years ago) link

"Dandy Little Glove Man" is a great moniker

LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Friday, 9 January 2015 17:50 (nine years ago) link

he used to work out with my american legion team when he was home from college. best arm of any fielder i ever met, wasn't enough to stay at short.

mookieproof, Friday, 9 January 2015 18:51 (nine years ago) link

aside from his lousy arm, Piazza's defense was pretty damn good

http://mets360.com/?p=24200

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 11 January 2015 16:18 (nine years ago) link

unit going in as a d-back

mookieproof, Friday, 16 January 2015 16:25 (nine years ago) link

lol'd at first and then remembered that it makes the most sense

good for them

qualx, Friday, 16 January 2015 16:28 (nine years ago) link

Seems fair. Most successful years were there.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Friday, 16 January 2015 16:28 (nine years ago) link

kind of a misnomer for "chooses barely legible logo for plaque"

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 January 2015 16:29 (nine years ago) link


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