http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/88163/hotsportstakes-in-a-world-of-wrong-the-hall-always-gets-it-right
― mookieproof, Thursday, 9 January 2014 21:36 (ten years ago) link
also from grantland, I just xp'd this in the PED thread, very good read:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10261642/mlb-hall-fame-voting-steroid-era
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 9 January 2014 21:38 (ten years ago) link
xpost it has an uncanny resemblance to a Bill Plaschke column ... well I guess that settles the argument about who is the worst writer on earth.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Thursday, 9 January 2014 21:43 (ten years ago) link
The second Grantland article is a must-read, even if you remember reading some or most of the articles it covers.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Thursday, 9 January 2014 21:44 (ten years ago) link
My most memorable game ever involving anyone but Frank Thomas was playing :)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/OAK/OAK200610060.shtml
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Thursday, 9 January 2014 22:49 (ten years ago) link
Just so Morbius can get an early start:
http://www.sbnation.com/2014/1/9/5290468/hall-of-fame-mlb-2015-ballot-pedro-martinez-randy-johnson-john-smoltz
http://mlb.si.com/2014/01/09/jaws-and-the-2014-hall-of-fame-ballot-an-early-look-at-the-new-names-for-2015/
― clemenza, Friday, 10 January 2014 02:42 (ten years ago) link
one of my favorite things about yesterday was smoltz taking part in the Maddux/glavine interviews and everyone was talking about how he'd be going in next year and smoltz just sat there stonefaced bc I think the writing is on the wall. I don't really see him making it on the first try, even though I think he'll do a lot better than schilling and mussina. normally he would i think but there are just too many guys down ballot who writers will want to vote just to keep under consideration.
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Friday, 10 January 2014 02:55 (ten years ago) link
maddux faced 20421 batters in his career. guess how many batters saw 3-0 counts?
― k3vin k., Friday, 10 January 2014 02:56 (ten years ago) link
1 - tony gwynn
― Karl Malone, Friday, 10 January 2014 03:00 (ten years ago) link
that poophead
133. think about that
― k3vin k., Friday, 10 January 2014 03:00 (ten years ago) link
no fair, he used pitches that moved
― mookieproof, Friday, 10 January 2014 03:16 (ten years ago) link
I don't know if that's right:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=maddugr01&year=Career&t=p#count
I read that as 644 3-0 counts ("After 3-0"). What does seem intuitively impressive is that, while the subsequent OBP is of course very high (.726), the BA (.275) and SLG (.375) are very low. I would think you'd expect hitters to do much better than that when putting the ball in play.
― clemenza, Friday, 10 January 2014 03:18 (ten years ago) link
They have to induct Mussina before he loses his looks.
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 January 2014 03:24 (ten years ago) link
That's why they only made Yogi wait a year.
For a quick comparison, some other career "after 3-0" slash lines:
Clemens: .226/.707/.385Pedro: .279/.714/.532Johnson: .280/.778/.479Schilling: .313/.705/.497Mussina: .245/.657/.344Glavine: .255/.713/.421Halladay: .275/.668/.425
Can't look up anybody before that, no data before '88. Clemens was easily the best, then Mussina; Pedro was the worst. Anyway, measured only against his peers, Maddux was better than most.
― clemenza, Friday, 10 January 2014 03:42 (ten years ago) link
how is clemens easily the best when mussina's OPS is like 90 pts lower?
― my whole family is catholic so look at the pickle i'm in (zachlyon), Friday, 10 January 2014 04:45 (ten years ago) link
it's a meaningless sample anyway
― k3vin k., Friday, 10 January 2014 04:48 (ten years ago) link
Zach's right, didn't look closely enough--I thought Clemens took the first and last.
I guess it's a relatively small sample, but Clemens and Maddux both had the equivalent of a full season, Mussina slightly less so. I wouldn't say meaningless--with 1100 PA between them, I'd feel confident saying that Mussina and Clemens had a knack for fighting back from 3-0 counts. Palmer's famous thing of not giving up a grand slam is a much smaller sample, 213 PA. (Something that surprises me. Knowing Palmer never gave up a grand slam, I always assumed that being extra careful to the point of paranoia, he probably walked a higher-than-usual number of guys in such situations. No--in those 213 bases-loaded PA, he walked 13...and only gave up five doubles and a triple. His line: .196/.230/.234.)
― clemenza, Friday, 10 January 2014 12:45 (ten years ago) link
Palmer pitched to the basepaths (sorta not kidding).
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Friday, 10 January 2014 12:58 (ten years ago) link
Maybe--I'll have to check if he had any errant pickoff throws.
― clemenza, Friday, 10 January 2014 14:40 (ten years ago) link
Sorry bad joke. I meant that he pitched based on how many people were on (which obviously in some sense all pitchers do). It was a play on Morris "pitch to the score" thing.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Friday, 10 January 2014 15:07 (ten years ago) link
I got the joke, and it was good. I was trying to return serve...
― clemenza, Friday, 10 January 2014 15:09 (ten years ago) link
I'm slow on the uptake at 7am apparently haha.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Friday, 10 January 2014 15:18 (ten years ago) link
Always loved the little-kid aspect to Thomas.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/dam/assets/140109153134-frank-thomas-ap2-single-image-cut.jpg
― clemenza, Friday, 10 January 2014 15:52 (ten years ago) link
Lawrence Rocca Honorary Morris Nomo Raines Trammell
― Andy K, Friday, 10 January 2014 16:33 (ten years ago) link
Finding old videos of Thomas, Glavine and Maddux is really difficult.
― Van Horn Street, Friday, 10 January 2014 21:42 (ten years ago) link
even on mlb.com? don't they have an archive page?
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 January 2014 21:54 (ten years ago) link
they do, but it's incredibly user-unfriendly. they have a lot of cool stuff, too! it's a shame they can't figure out how to organize it and make it more easily searchable.
― Karl Malone, Friday, 10 January 2014 22:11 (ten years ago) link
I refuse to vote for a guy who cheats, as Biggio did with all that armor on his arm, so he could get hit with pitches and trot to first base as a result. He made no attempt to avoid getting hit and actually stuck that arm out further, inducing the ball to smack him.That, my friends, is against the rules and umpires should be calling that shit a ball, but they don’t. I once asked umpire John McSherry about that, and he skirted around the question, never answering it.
That, my friends, is against the rules and umpires should be calling that shit a ball, but they don’t. I once asked umpire John McSherry about that, and he skirted around the question, never answering it.
http://www.kenstewartphoto.net/dowling_drivel_blog/?p=4208
― Andy K, Saturday, 11 January 2014 02:31 (ten years ago) link
That's a pretty schizophrenic ballot.
― clemenza, Saturday, 11 January 2014 03:09 (ten years ago) link
lol
that isn't biggio cheating, it's biggio taking advantage of umpires who don't care. legit concern! i wish the rule was enforced. but i also don't think a dude willingly getting hit by 90+mph baseballs is ever selfish
― my whole family is catholic so look at the pickle i'm in (zachlyon), Sunday, 12 January 2014 22:36 (ten years ago) link
also palmer DID allow a grand slam once (as people like to remind him) -- but the game was rained out
― my whole family is catholic so look at the pickle i'm in (zachlyon), Sunday, 12 January 2014 22:38 (ten years ago) link
sry for the dumb bump was gone all weekend
nomo to the japanese hof
― mookieproof, Saturday, 18 January 2014 03:40 (ten years ago) link
Hall of Fame announces cap selections for 2014 inductees:
Cox & Glavine: BravesThomas: White SoxTorre: YankeesLa Russa & Maddux: No logo
― mookieproof, Thursday, 23 January 2014 19:04 (ten years ago) link
is this purely the hall's decision or do the players get to choose?
― k3vin k., Thursday, 23 January 2014 19:05 (ten years ago) link
They used to get to choose but then it turned into this weird courting ritual between the teams so the league stepped in.
― polyphonic, Thursday, 23 January 2014 19:08 (ten years ago) link
I was totally in suspense over whether that choker Glavine wd have a Mets cap
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 23 January 2014 20:07 (ten years ago) link
Maddux not going in as a Brave? I don't get that at all.
― clemenza, Friday, 24 January 2014 01:06 (ten years ago) link
the idea that one team must be picked is outdated and silly tbh
― mookieproof, Friday, 24 January 2014 01:18 (ten years ago) link
yeah the put the clamp down when there was talk boggs agreed to put tampa on his hall of fame plaque for a bonus and they took that privilege away from the inductees. i think clemens had announced he was going in as a yankee also though that wasn't quite as outrageous.
― balls, Friday, 24 January 2014 01:22 (ten years ago) link
I'm not saying that one team must be picked in all cases, but this particular case makes little sense. Objectively, that is--I've read a little more, and seems it was Maddux's call. (I thought MLB made the call ever since Winfield tried to turn it into a bidding war.) If Maddux feels special gratitude towards the Cubs, that's fine. But if I were a Braves fan, I wouldn't like it.
― clemenza, Friday, 24 January 2014 01:25 (ten years ago) link
Right--it was Boggs. It was Winfield who partly wanted to stick it to Steinbrenner (which I totally understand).
― clemenza, Friday, 24 January 2014 01:26 (ten years ago) link
obviously maddux's best years were with the braves, but he spent less than half his career there. it should about celebrating the whole career, and making a fuss about choosing one slights the rest
― mookieproof, Friday, 24 January 2014 01:32 (ten years ago) link
Well, we'll have to disagree on this one. If Andrew McCutchen has another seven or eight great seasons with the Pirates, wins a couple more MVPs, then signs a big contract with the Yankees and finally wins a World Series, I hope you'll be as understanding if he decides to go into the HOF as a Yankee one day.
― clemenza, Friday, 24 January 2014 01:37 (ten years ago) link
frank robinson played six seasons for the orioles and went in as an O, there was never really any question about it. those weren't even his best six years! but it still made sense.
― my whole family is catholic so look at the pickle i'm in (zachlyon), Friday, 24 January 2014 01:43 (ten years ago) link
i'd want mccutchen to go in with no single associated team, is the point.
skip the insignia, just have the dreads
― mookieproof, Friday, 24 January 2014 01:46 (ten years ago) link
Guess I'm more of a homer on this particular point. I know I would have been really disappointed had Alomar decided to go in as an Indian, and assuming Halladay goes in, I'll be disappointed if he opts for the Phillies--and there are stronger cases to be made there than with Maddux, I think.
― clemenza, Friday, 24 January 2014 01:56 (ten years ago) link
Neyer's got a column up that clarifies whose decision it is: basically the player's, unless it's something patently ridiculous like with Boggs. At that point, the league will step in.
― clemenza, Friday, 24 January 2014 01:57 (ten years ago) link
Also, yes, Frank Robinson is an Oriole to me, although that's largely because he was an Oriole when I started watching baseball. If I were five to ten years older, I might think differently (or might not).
― clemenza, Friday, 24 January 2014 01:59 (ten years ago) link