MIR, here's a 4-year-old Neyer column on Blyleven... Alex, I think it's conclusive:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/2000/1213/943398.html
And he later wrote:
"Blyleven was, over the course of his career, a better pitcher than Ted Lyons or Early Wynn or Bob Lemon or Red Ruffing or Rube Waddell or Red Faber or Catfish Hunter or Lefty Gomez, all of whom are in the Hall of Fame... It's not Blyleven's fault that he generally pitched for unspectacular teams that played in hitter's parks. In fact, Blyleven pitched for 22 seasons, and in only four of those 22 seasons did Blyleven's home ballpark favor the pitcher, statistically..."
And to appeal to the butch old-timers: 242 complete games!
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 23 December 2004 17:41 (nineteen years ago) link
Four of 'em (third twice).
http://baseball-reference.com/b/blylebe01.shtml
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 23 December 2004 17:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 23 December 2004 17:58 (nineteen years ago) link
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1815
It concludes that there is no evidence to suggest that he could.
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 23 December 2004 17:59 (nineteen years ago) link
That's the article I meant, MIR, thanks.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 23 December 2004 18:07 (nineteen years ago) link
I think he's written a couple of other columns on Blyleven, maybe I can find them ...
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 23 December 2004 18:13 (nineteen years ago) link
Those are some mind-numbing stats!
― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 23 December 2004 18:14 (nineteen years ago) link
This, and many other articles stating his HoF case are collected -- where else? -- on Blyleven's web page:
http://www.bertblyleven.com/hall_of_fame.shtml
xpost -- yeah, the Morris article is a bit of a numbers slog, but it's well done.
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 23 December 2004 18:21 (nineteen years ago) link
Enough, believe me. And I saw him compare him to two HOF pitchers, one of whom is IMO a mistake and the other who is basically in the Hall because he had a zillion strikeouts and a slew of no hitters. Compare him to Carlton or Seaver or Hunter or any of the really great pitchers from his era, if you want to make your point (that this guy is getting job) don't just claim he was "better than Don Sutton" cuz my response to that is so the fuck what.
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 23 December 2004 18:38 (nineteen years ago) link
That second ESPN article is much better btw and makes a pretty good case.
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 23 December 2004 18:40 (nineteen years ago) link
No, Bert is not Seaver or Carlton.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 23 December 2004 18:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 23 December 2004 19:04 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 23 December 2004 19:48 (nineteen years ago) link
He played for fifteen years, and he had about four great years, four good years, and the rest were downright BAD. If he'd pitched for anyone other than the 70's A's and Yankees dynasties, there's no way he'd be anywhere near a serious HoF discussion.
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 23 December 2004 20:51 (nineteen years ago) link
See this is where I get the impression that cold-dispassionate analysis of the stats lies a little. For 5 years (71-75), Hunter was probably hands down the most feared pitcher in baseball. No he might not have been Koufax, but he was still by all accounts pretty amazing. Those five years count for more to me than 20 some odd years of just pretty good workmanlike pitching (I will admit that these breakdowns of Blyleven's stats are making a pretty case that he was better than that.) (I do have to wonder WHY if Bert was so great, he um didn't get snatched up by better teams? I mean that can't all be bad luck, right?)
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 23 December 2004 21:23 (nineteen years ago) link
Postseason Pitching
Year Round Tm Opp WLser G GS ERA W-L SV CG SHO IP H ER BB SO+------------------+-----+--+--+------+-----+--+--+---+-----+---+---+---+---+ 1970 ALCS MIN BAL L 1 0 0.00 0-0 0 0 0 2.0 2 0 0 2 1979 NLCS PIT CIN W 1 1 1.00 1-0 0 1 0 9.0 8 1 0 9 WS PIT BAL W 2 1 1.80 1-0 0 0 0 10.0 8 2 3 4 1987 ALCS MIN DET W 2 2 4.05 2-0 0 0 0 13.3 12 6 3 9 WS MIN STL W 2 2 2.77 1-1 0 0 0 13.0 13 4 2 12+------------------+-----+--+--+------+-----+--+--+---+-----+---+---+---+---+ 3 Lg Champ Series 2-1 4 3 2.59 3-0 0 1 0 24.3 22 7 3 20 2 World Series 2-0 4 3 2.35 2-1 0 0 0 23.0 21 6 5 16 5 Postseason Ser 4-1 8 6 2.47 5-1 0 1 0 47.3 43 13 8 36+------------------+-----+--+--+------+-----+--+--+---+-----+---+---+---+---+
He didn't get many chances, but Blyleven pitched well in the playoffs and was a part of two World Series Champions.
― Earl Nash (earlnash), Thursday, 23 December 2004 21:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 23 December 2004 21:48 (nineteen years ago) link
Many of his best years came before free agency, so he didn't have much choice in the matter.
Even with free agency, it's only during the last ten years or so that all the best players end up on big-market winning teams at some point, since eventually those are the only teams that can afford them. If Jaret Wright can bounce around for a while, have one good season after a slew of crappy ones, and end up with a multi-year deal from a perennial contender, then Blyleven would have ended up playing for more winning teams too, if he was playing today.
Even so, every era has a few great players who toil away in relative obscurity. Look at Bobby Abreu, or even Carlos Delgado. If Delgado goes to the Mets, maybe in 20 years people will be saying "if he was so good, why did his teams always finish in third place?"
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 23 December 2004 22:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 23 December 2004 23:22 (nineteen years ago) link
Alex, nobody's saying Hunter wasn't GOOD, just that Blyleven was better for MUCH longer, and that "good press" shouldn't be a measure of excellence. And I don't see Hunter '71-75 being "amazing" ... His most "impressive statistics" are wins (ie, having good teammates) and innings pitched (which blew out his arm, as MIR says). I think he got extra credit for the pennants and the sexy nicknames. And it's cute how you use high Cy Young finishes as relevant to Hunter, not relevant for Blyleven. (Also, I don't see Hunter's status as the first Big Splash free agent being relevant; see Marvin Miller's book for how clownishly Catfish handled that situation.)
The "cold-dispassionate analysis of the stats" is the most reliable evidence there is. Not "what you heard" (from Joe Morgan?). And it isn't so much that Blyleven toiled for bad teams (they were more often mediocre), but pitched in hitters' parks.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 26 December 2004 03:58 (nineteen years ago) link
I hope it happens soon so that he lives to attend his own induction.
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 26 December 2004 08:04 (nineteen years ago) link
― otto midnight (otto midnight), Monday, 27 December 2004 07:32 (nineteen years ago) link
It's not lookin' good for Marv, MIR -- when the Vets voted last in '03, no one came close to getting 75% ... and of the 60 votes required for election, Miller got 35. He got three FEWER votes than Walter O'Malley -- or as we call him in Brooklyn, Satan.
Miller and other non-players are on the "composite" ballot. Here's this year's players' ballot:
http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/veterans/2005/2005_vc_candidates.htm
The only one I'm sold on is Santo, but Dick Allen and Tony Oliva have decent cases -- as does Curt Flood for courage and legal pioneering.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 December 2004 14:28 (nineteen years ago) link
Mickey Lolich won't get in the Hall, but his pitching in the 68 World Series may be the best performance ever in the fall classic by a starter. The guy out pitched Bob Gibson in Game Seven on TWO days rest. ESPN Classic was showed that game a few months back and it was great. Harry Caray was doing the play by play.
While I don't know if he is good enough player to make the hall, Al Oliver had a pretty good career and never gets put on these kind of lists.
― Earl Nash (earlnash), Monday, 27 December 2004 16:38 (nineteen years ago) link
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 27 December 2004 17:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 December 2004 17:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 27 December 2004 17:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 December 2004 17:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 27 December 2004 18:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 27 December 2004 18:22 (nineteen years ago) link
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 27 December 2004 18:27 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 27 December 2004 18:38 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 December 2004 19:15 (nineteen years ago) link
My general point is that "b...b...but he was a bit of an asshole" is a criticism that's used far too often despite being irrelevant most of the time. As long as the guy didn't compromise the game of baseball (Pete Rose being the most obvious example) then I couldn't care less if he was moody and didn't get along with everybody. If he could bring it on the field, then that's the most important thing.
(xpost)
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 27 December 2004 19:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 27 December 2004 19:21 (nineteen years ago) link
Haha I need to learn to check baseballreference.com before I say stuff sometimes.
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 27 December 2004 19:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 27 December 2004 19:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 27 December 2004 20:32 (nineteen years ago) link
Example #2: replace "Reggie Jackson" with "Barry Bonds" in the above paragraph.
Or consider the Yankees and Red Sox of the last few years. When the Yankees were winning, they were "professional" and "disciplined". Their lack of comaraderie was viewed as an asset, i.e. "they're all business when they take the field". OTOH, the Sox were drama queens who didn't know how to win when it counts.
Fast forward to this past year. The Yanks are up 3-0 and they're winning because they're the professionals who respect the game and know how to win. Five days later, the exact same guys are described as "cold" and "unemotional" and that's why they lost. In the meantime, Manny and Pedro's weird quirks and selfishness are ignored, and suddenly all the drama becomes an asset because the Sox are "loose", "having fun", and "relaxed", and that's why they won.
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 27 December 2004 23:47 (nineteen years ago) link
"So we're supposed to believe that Reggie was a poison when his team lost, and a leader when they won?"
I don't think anyone really said Reggie (or Barry or Albert Belle) was a leader at any point though (well maybe Reggie when he got older.) They just said when they won that they were very good players (which obv all three were) and at times very clutch players. That doesn't mean that they also didn't cause some problems in their respective clubhouses/franchises (which all three obv did.)
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 28 December 2004 00:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 28 December 2004 01:22 (nineteen years ago) link
Great players are great players irrespective of their teams. You can be a great player on a good team or on a bad team. Similarly, if someone is a clubhouse cancer, then that should also be independent of the quality of the team. But it isn't. The same guy who is a cancer when the team loses is a leader when the team wins.
This doesn't mean that team chemistry doesn't count for anything. But it counts for a lot less than player performance.
Haha watch out conventional wisdom! Barry's coming after ya!
Next thing you know, I'll be claiming that there's no such thing as a clutch hitter!!
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 28 December 2004 01:56 (nineteen years ago) link
Reggie's championship teams in both Oakland and the Bronx were filled with hot heads, both on the team, the managers and owners. It was a crazy atmosphere, yet they won, mostly because they were freakin' loaded with talent top to bottom. One thing I find interesting about both of those clubs is that they both won titles with two managers, the A's with Dick Williams and Alvin Dark, the Yanks with Billy Martin and Bob Lemon. Both clubs had complete freak owners with big checkbooks with King George and Charlie Finley.
70s baseball was cool. You had both of these clubs and the Big Red Machine. KC, Baltimore, Philly, LA and Pittsburgh all also won their division more than once in 70s.
― Earl Nash (earlnash), Tuesday, 28 December 2004 06:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 28 December 2004 09:56 (nineteen years ago) link
Yeah, for purpose of analyzing a player's career worth, it all should come down to stats, or as I prefer to call them, FACTS. We can all spin our own fantasies of who's a "clubhouse cancer" -- one of my first choices would be late-career Saint Cal Ripken -- and it doesn't prove a damn thing.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 28 December 2004 15:16 (nineteen years ago) link
I agree Mr. Cal could be pretty detrimental to his team by that point too, but Mr. Morb WHY if everything is so easy to calculate based on the "facts" (haha) do we even bother having votes then? Why isn't there just a formula?
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 28 December 2004 16:12 (nineteen years ago) link
2. I'm not advocating a fucking formula, but INTERPRETING the record of the player's career.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 14:25 (nineteen years ago) link
Took me a second to figure this out--I thought he was still playing for somebody--but I-Rod's "officially" retiring:
http://cnnsi.com/2012/baseball/mlb/04/19/rodriguez.retires.ap/index.html#?sct=mlb_t11_a2
I guess he goes into the Bagwell group: automatic first-ballot if they vote on stats alone, some undetermined amount of time in limbo otherwise.
― clemenza, Friday, 20 April 2012 16:04 (twelve years ago) link
thought the same thing when i saw he's retiring. who else are you putting in this group?
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 20 April 2012 16:08 (twelve years ago) link
I think Hunter was good in the field, but not really vastly superior to others. if you look at the metrics, Jones was an all-time great. I think where they were actually closer in terms of career value was at the plate, Jones had bigger numbers in a couple of huge years but I think Hunter wasn't far off in his all around offensive game.
― omar little, Monday, 22 January 2024 17:23 (four months ago) link
two who are also pretty close are Rollins and Reyes. i don't see Rollins getting in, he's nowhere near, though 29 votes vs zero for Reyes is probably a bit unfair to the latter, who was really quite the player.
― omar little, Monday, 22 January 2024 18:18 (four months ago) link
Just realized this is tomorrow. All I know for sure: Beltre is in, DeSantis is out...Agree with all that about Jones/Hunter (although I'm trusting the defensive metrics on blind faith). I think a 60/40 split, or 65/35 split, would be more reasonable than 71/5.
― clemenza, Monday, 22 January 2024 23:39 (four months ago) link
Mauer is really holding steady, he's been consistently one or two votes ahead of Helton. it's always hard to tell but for most candidates with credentials some might find borderline, there's usually a 6-7% drop from where the tracker finishes. I feel like Mauer is somewhere between 73-79% in the end. Wagner and Helton are cutting it close.
― omar little, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 17:26 (four months ago) link
it's going to be crowded again next year, anywhere from a dozen to fifteen players returning, plus Suzuki in the Adrian Beltre 95%+ shoo-in role, Sabathia, Pedroia as an Utley type, Kinsler as the poor man's David Wright, and King Felix.
― omar little, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 17:43 (four months ago) link
I anticipate being bummed out at how little support Felix is going to receive.
― FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 23 January 2024 18:32 (four months ago) link
Can't share, but these are Posnanski's predictions (many obvious by this point):
Will Be Elected -- Beltre, Mauer, HeltonWill Just Miss -- Wagner, SheffieldComing Soon To a Hall of Fame Near You -- Jones, BeltranSolidly on the Ballot Going Forward -- Utley, A-Rod, Manny (seems to think A-Rod will eventually go in, Manny "not ever, not by the writers nor by any veterans committee")The 15% Club -- Rollins, Abreu, Pettitte, VizquelWill Make Another Ballot -- Buehrle, K-Rod, Hunter, WrightWill Not Make the Ballot Next Year -- the rest
He came up with a fun thing yesterday, based on something his friend said: a player's Hock Score:
I’m going to talk a bit over the next couple of days about my friend Jon Hock’s Hall of Fame thought experiment, which he sent in to express his support for Thurman Munson’s Hall of Fame candidacy:
"Try this as a thought experiment: Imagine Munson’s plaque in the Gallery in Cooperstown, then imagine watching a day’s worth of fans passing through. Tell me, where would Munson’s plaque rank in terms of fans stopping a little bit longer, maybe removing their cap and saying something about him to their daughter or grandson? I’d say top ten or 15 in the entire Gallery."
I’m not entirely sure that Munson’s plaque would draw quite that kind of attention, but I love the concept: Which players’ plaques would stand out in the Hall of Fame plaque room? That’s a really interesting way of thinking about the Hall of Fame, emphasis on the word "fame."
I can say with some confidence, that if Bartolo Colón somehow made the Hall of Fame, he’d have a HUGE Hock Score.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 18:44 (four months ago) link
Just to clarify, his predictions are not reflective of his own preferences--he voted for Manny, always has, and lobbies hard for him. But: "...and I can certainly live with that." ("That" being what I quoted above.)
― clemenza, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 18:53 (four months ago) link
i kinda think Wagner might make up enough ground to get in but it'll be a true squeaker. i also think he'll be the last closer to make it for an extremely long time and maybe that's appropriate.
― omar little, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 19:04 (four months ago) link
Think this is the first time I've ever watched this live...hey, I'm live-blogging!
― clemenza, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:15 (four months ago) link
let's go
― omar little, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:16 (four months ago) link
Jose Bautista just ran across the screen and did a bat-flip...not sure what that means.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:16 (four months ago) link
You take the first one, Omar.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:17 (four months ago) link
Beltre, Mauer...
― FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:17 (four months ago) link
aaaaand Helton!
― FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:18 (four months ago) link
Still majorly surprised that Mauer is a first-ballot guy. Not complaining, just surprised.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:18 (four months ago) link
Beltre, Helton, Mauer, and that's it
― omar little, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:19 (four months ago) link
You were like 30 seconds ahead of me, Thermo. Is St. Marys that deep in the woods?
― clemenza, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:19 (four months ago) link
gonna be curious to see those percentages. not surprised Wagner didn't make it.
does this mean Posey is going to be a first ballot guy now?!
― FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:23 (four months ago) link
Sheffield is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXP1MSFwMnc
Not sure how he'll fair with the VC, which is much the harder of the two to predict.
(Never doubted that Posey would be first-ballot, I guess because his career ended well rather than petering out--plus, obviously, the WS titles.)
― clemenza, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:24 (four months ago) link
Under 30% for Utley...that'll change quickly, I think.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:25 (four months ago) link
the best chance for several of these guys is the upcoming desert of star candidates, post-suzuki. Posey, Molina, and uh Hamels are the "best" between the Suzuki ballot and the Pujols ballot.
― omar little, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:29 (four months ago) link
not counting Cano and Braun, who seem like sub-10% guys potentially.
― omar little, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:31 (four months ago) link
I'm glad Scott Boras isn't sitting on that couch.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:33 (four months ago) link
i'd be shocked if Cano was under 10
― FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:35 (four months ago) link
Hard to say--the writers are especially punitive to players who tested positive well along the timeline.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:37 (four months ago) link
plus it was two PED suspensions, and his stats are really impressive but not A-Rod/Manny territory.
― omar little, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:39 (four months ago) link
i think he's also sort of a curiously forgotten guy, maybe because of the manner in which his career petered out statistically. i've gotta believe he'll do better than Braun for reasons both related to their stats and obv Braun's much worse behavior w/r/t his PED use.
― omar little, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:41 (four months ago) link
Mauer's only the third first-ballot catcher after Bench and I-Rod.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 24 January 2024 05:16 (four months ago) link
poor billy
obviously there are arguments to be made about the true value of relievers, but he was lights-out when it was asked of him
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 24 January 2024 05:50 (four months ago) link
Anyone else listen to Grimes’ “We Appreciate Power” and always hear “power” as “Mauer” and then start re-framing the lyrics to be about him? No one? Ok.
― Michael F Gill, Wednesday, 24 January 2024 17:25 (four months ago) link
Next five ballots: https://www.mlb.com/news/future-baseball-hall-of-fame-ballots-preview
― clemenza, Wednesday, 24 January 2024 17:40 (four months ago) link
Ichiro, Posey, Pujols, and Cabrera are first ballot inductees i bet. Molina, hard to tell. Sabathia? I'm maybe slightly agnostic on him; as far as lefty starters go he's probably closer to David Wells than he is Clayton Kershaw, but might have to dig in deeper considering the era he pitched in.
guys like Lester and Wainwright had nice careers, not dissimilar at all, but they should be in their team HOFs, not the MLB one.
really kinda curious to see where Granderson, Hernández, Kinsler, and Pedroia wind up in the voting next year. they were all great players to varying levels, though i don't think they would or necessarily should get voted in.
― omar little, Wednesday, 24 January 2024 17:59 (four months ago) link
Jimmy Key (among my favourite Jays ever) and Russell Martin into the Canadian Baseball HOF.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/article/martin-key-among-six-inductees-to-enter-canadian-baseball-hall-of-fame/
― clemenza, Tuesday, 6 February 2024 15:23 (four months ago) link
Paul Godfrey, I should mention, was instrumental in getting Toronto a franchise. He engineered the deal that almost landed us the Giants in '76, before George Moscone rescued them and kept them in San Francisco.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 6 February 2024 15:43 (four months ago) link
Comparison graphics frequently turn up on my FB wall. Some of them are far-fetched special pleading--someone trying to make a case that Dale Murphy was better than Reggie Jackson, stuff like that. One caught my eye today: John Smoltz vs. Kevin Brown. The graphic provided overall stats, i.e. including Smoltz's years as a closer, and their career lines were very similar. Just as starters:
Smoltz: 209-149, 3.40, 7.90 K/9, 2.92 K/BB, 1.192 WHIP, 3211.2 IPBrown: 210-143, 3.26, 6.60 K/9, 2.67 K/BB, 1.219 WHIP, 3237.2 IP
Again, very close. I thought Brown might actually come out looking better, but I think there's a small but clear edge there to Smoltz. When you add 1) Smoltz's three seasons as a first-rate closer (a role that, if I remember correctly, he volunteered to step into), 2) Smoltz's stellar post-season record (overall, Brown was mediocre in the post-season in a much smaller sample), and 3) Brown's PED associations, it's more clear-cut why Smoltz in the HOF and Brown isn't than I thought it would be.
― clemenza, Thursday, 28 March 2024 02:24 (two months ago) link
Only because he came up on a different thread today, I looked up Davey Johnson's one year on the HOF ballot (as a player; I think he was on the VC ballot as a manager this year). Three votes. You know who else got three votes that year? Jim Bouton!
― clemenza, Thursday, 30 May 2024 02:49 (two weeks ago) link