Annoying and ridiculous singing voices are the best voices

As you might expect, I dont really believe what the thread title says and will elaborate. I've been meaning to do this for a while but seeing that Joy Division thread with that story about two people killing themselves laughing at Ian Curtis' vocals, has got me in the mood.

Often I hear people saying "but his/her voice is annoying!" used as an argument ender, as if there is no negotiation with that point. There is also a tendency among some people to do a funny caricature of someones voice as if this is proof of a singer being bad.

In my teens I would often cringe at vocal parts in songs that later became my favorite parts. So eventually it came to the point that if some singers voice was embarrassing me on first listen, there was a conflicted anticipation that I might end up loving it. This was a general thing with music, but with voices more than anything, unfamiliar voices outside the comfort zone. I pretty much never get this feeling anymore because I'm open to just about anything now.
So a lot of my favorite singers would be annoying to many people (including myself on first listens). Diamanda Galas, Alison Shaw (Cranes), Elizabeth Fraser (Cocteau Twins), Geddy Lee (Rush), Oscar Herera (Black Tape For A Blue Girl), Scott Walker, King Diamond, Kate Bush, Cardiacs and many many more. More than any singer of my favorite bands, Mr Doctor from Devil Doll would repel even a lot of very open minded people but I love him, he sounds like Peter Hammill crossed with the actor Dwight Frye (in his horror roles).
Singers like Anna-Varney Canodea (Sopor Aeternus), David Tibet (Current 93) and Edward Ka-Spel (Legendary Pink Dots) really drive some people crazy. I think the most oppressively mocked singer I know of is that guy from the black Metal band Bethlehem. There are quite a number of similar vocalists from the suicide/depressive BM style that get that treatment.

I think familiarity is an important part of this. I'm often surprised at how big Smashing Pumpkins are because the voice of Billy Corgan is genuinely odd. Even though it sounds like a standard style of singing now, I think Frankie Valli And The Four Seasons sound downright insane when I think about it.
Springsteen, Dylan and Lennon do get made fun of, but had they been more obscure I think maybe people would make a bigger deal of their voices. I think just about any truly distinctive singer is open to ridicule, I feel like I've heard just about every distinctive singer being mocked.
I remember once Bob Dylan was on tv and people in the room with me were really laughing at his voice. Also once I was watching a Morbid Angel music video and someone behind me was trying to stifle their laughter.

In the case of extreme metal vocalists, it is a stumbling block for a lot of people and even though I enjoy these singers I completely understand why someone would find them incredibly silly. Ihsahn from Emperor has sung in quite a variety of voices but people who accept his early black metal vocals cant stand his more "heroic" vocals; but I cant find any solid logic in finding the latter sillier than the former. Again, I think this is about familiarity, that black metal fans have long accepted certain styles of singing and others, not so much.

What I really like about these voices is that they have unique expressive qualities, the way they can go really far in a direction that seems quite mad sometimes but creates a really incredible effect. Also that a lot of these voices are very personal in a way that a guitar style is unlikely to be.
I dont have any Frankie Valli records but I think that kind of singing has this exaggerated emotional effect that is really moving at times.

These days in art/entertainment one of the qualities I admire most (even if I think what they made is terrible) is people who risk ridicule or simply dont care, especially a singer getting up in front of all sorts of crowds. I think perhaps in all areas of aesthetics and behavior in life, peoples constant fear of criticism or ridicule or sometimes fear of standing out in any way, results in the homogeneous sludge you see too often. Anything too distinctive is seen as bad (I think when people are chasing physical perfection, they want to subtract anything that makes them look distinctive, they'd rather look like a manikin. So in a way I'd say it is not a love of beauty, but more a fear of what could be interpreted as ugliness).

what do you think of this lovely gal then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw07CDid0JM

I think this is a really interesting question. Paul Buchanan springs to mind as someone who"s voice may sound a bit amusing, embarrassing even, in it's oddness, but becomes a thing of real beauty once you get passed that.

I've always been drawn to unusual voices but there are some I cannot enjoy: Billy Corgan, no matter how hard I try, and La Roux are the first couple I can think of.

"Embarrassing" may seem like an odd word but I remember playing 'tinseltown...' quite early on to my gf and thinking she might find this voice, and therefore this song, a bit weird. She loved it, loves it as much as I do now.

David Byrne

lol fucking indie fucks right

Bowie. Where the hell does he get those vowels from? As a fellow Londoner I can safely say it's nothing to do with his natural accent.

I'm assuming David Byrne, David Bowie and "indie fucks" are singers that you like despite the possible difficulties?

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a61/npope3001/blassie0.jpg

I just listened to that Mrs Miller track and it is quite interesting but I'd need to hear more to really make my mind up.

One thing that is too much for me is Tiny Tim's version of "I Got You Babe". I like Tiny Tim, but that song drives me nuts.

It's not very clear to me what this thread is about tbh: just singers who have highly distinctive, idiosyncratic voices? As opposed to, say, studio backup singers? The singers in the OP are a mix of highly trained, traditionally technically accomplished singers like Diamanda Galas and Kate Bush (whom I would think have 'chased physical perfection' in their vocal technique to some degree); singers like Corgan and Dylan who are close to the opposite end of the spectrum; and even a genre (depressive BM singing), which leads me to even question whether it's actually individuality that you are looking for. I mean, nearly anyone with any distinctiveness can be mocked or seen as annoying and ridiculous by someone. (People make fun of Chad Kroeger all the time, for example.)

I've always felt that people with beautiful singing voices and/or excellent training have an incredible handicap when it comes to writing, producing great songs. There's gonna be that urge to represent self-- listen to my beautiful voice, you guys. And there won't be any struggle in the creation because "she could sing the phone book", as they say.

I don't think it's a case of "annoying voices are better", cause David Byrne isn't a good singer by any yardstick, but no good singer would have written "Once in a Lifetime" or "Naive Melody". Know what I mean?

i have always been biased toward "annoying and ridiculous" singers, who i would describe as "distinctive." dylan and bjork have extraordinary voices in my opinion, and have always struck me as more expressive than more conventional singers. maybe i am a pop music "auteur" snob, and so fetishize any elements of idiosyncrasy in the performance.

There's gonna be that urge to represent self-- listen to my beautiful voice, you guys. And there won't be any struggle in the creation because "she could sing the phone book", as they say.

Why are these things handicaps when it comes to writing or producing great songs?

Sund4r- I don't think my original argument holds up 100% but that is partly what this discussion is for. I do like lots of singers whose voices are trained in a very specific mode. But as you said "nearly anyone with any distinctiveness can be mocked or seen as annoying and ridiculous by someone" and I just wanted to see how people felt about certain voices, why they might think they have a good argument for or against their voice; thinking about how much familiarity lets you accept certain things and just general points related to that.

I mentioned Oscar Herrera from Black Tape For A Blue Girl earlier. He sings in a style that he isn't able to pull off entirely convincingly because it doesn't sound like he has the training; yet I'm not sure whether I like those "flaws" better than what he might be like if he was trained. I'll probably never know.

Often I hear people saying "but his/her voice is annoying!" used as an argument ender, as if there is no negotiation with that point. There is also a tendency among some people to do a funny caricature of someones voice as if this is proof of a singer being bad.

my sense is that people typically mock a singer's voice not to prove artistic worthlessness, but to protest that mirth, horror and/or irritation stand in the way of appreciation. i mean that such mockery describes a gut-level personal reaction, not a nuanced critical evaluation.

like, i have a hard time with bjork. her voice too often hits me like nails on a chalkboard, and i'm frequently baffled by her approach to melody and harmony. i won't dismiss her as i do find her work artistically interesting, but at this point, i'm pretty closed to conversion.

Paul Buchanan springs to mind as someone who"s voice may sound a bit amusing, embarrassing even, in it's oddness

Sorry, I really do not understand this at all?!??!?! What?

There's gonna be that urge to represent self-- listen to my beautiful voice, you guys. And there won't be any struggle in the creation because "she could sing the phone book", as they say.

Why are these things handicaps when it comes to writing or producing great songs?

There's no hard and fast rules, obviously! I can only speak from experience. I've heard countless terrible songs. For two years I tended bar at a weekly open mic nights. And I booked shows and worked as a music programmer for radio. There is a tendency for aspiring musicians with naturally good singing voices to err on the side of the formulaic. I guess it's because the song already sounds good at the outset and requires no fine-tuning.

I just assumed it was the case because, you know, everybody has to sit down with their recordings and listen back to it. If you sing like Dan Bejar and your songs are shitty then you'll probably know it and you'll work on writing better songs. If you sing like Dionne Warwick and your songs are shitty you might not notice that they're shitty. You'll just hear your beautiful voice. Doesn't that make sense?

Yeah but Dionne had way better material than Bejar

That could also be related to specialization. I write better than I play because I've spent more time on the former. For many musicians, it works the other way. I never feel like the struggles involved when I play things that I write are a benefit to my writing, though. (And I don't think anyone would say that e.g. Mozart's writing was impeded by his skills as a pianist.)

Springsteen, Dylan and Lennon do get made fun of, but had they been more obscure I think maybe people would make a bigger deal of their voices. I think just about any truly distinctive singer is open to ridicule, I feel like I've heard just about every distinctive singer being mocked.

i have never heard anyone make fun of lennon's voice -- i think it's pretty universally acknowledged that he's one of the all-time greats?

I've never heard anyone make fun of his voice either but I also didn't think he was regarded as a virtuoso singer (though he's certainly better than those other two)? I always enjoy his singing, of course.

I know people who dislike or don't care for the Beatles but I've never heard someone say that it's because their voices are annoying and ridiculous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDOBMz2TGi8

Can someone tell me the connection between that pig painting and Marissa M? Is it an original of hers?

I've seen it here many times, and it shows up when you GIS her name!

Yeah but Dionne had way better material than Bejar

Well yeah. I didn't want to single out any actual examples of "beautiful voice + shitty songwriter" 'cause it'd just make a contentious point even more contentious. Jill Scott? Coldplay guy? I like some Jill Scott and some Coldplay. But neither could touch David Byrne as a songwriter/producer. Or any of the other so-called "annoying voiced" people itt. It's a broad generalization to be sure, but this is kind of a private assessment of mine. Like when Feist writes a great song I'm like "nice work, pretty voice!" Anyway, that's why I think people like annoying voiced singers. Because if Andy Partridge could sing pretty he wouldn't have to write the clever songs he does.

neither could touch David Byrne as a songwriter/producer.

I definitely think e.g. Joni Mitchell, Kate Bush, Stevie Wonder, or Prince could.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw9DsEay6Ak

Paul Buchanan springs to mind as someone who"s voice may sound a bit amusing, embarrassing even, in it's oddness

Sorry, I really do not understand this at all?!??!?! What?

― Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Friday, 5 July 2013 17:08 (Yesterday) Permalink

you don't think the phrasing in, say, 'tinseltown...' might sound a bit weird to somebody coming in cold? like, at all?!??!?!

i remember feeling a little self-conscious blasting "Do I Love You?/YES I Love You..." in my bedroom in 1984. definitely something i played by myself.

and yet blasting Wide Boy Awake didn't make me feel self-conscious at all.

a more helpful exercise to this thread would be to remember the singers with bad and ridiculous voices who also had terrible material, like, i don't know, wild man fischer

matt bellamy of muse

katy perry

Solo Lou Reed *ducks*

neither could touch David Byrne as a songwriter/producer.

I definitely think e.g. Joni Mitchell, Kate Bush, Stevie Wonder, or Prince could.

Yah totally! But you're like talking about stone-cold geniuses. Is there a name for that? When you're talking about "people doing things" and then it's like "your arguments about swimming are moot because remember Jesus once walked on water"

i wrote about this very thing once:

"Wackiness and weariness often walk hand in hand where rock and roll singers are concerned. A listener's own personal threshold for whims, quirks, kinks, and vocal contortions, and their willingness to follow an "inspired" performer from point abba to point zabba, is subjective enough as to make one man's pork soda delish in every way, and another man's frog brigade merely soggy to the touch."

http://skotrok.blogspot.com/2012/08/ear-nose-throat.html

haha that piece ruuules

I recently saw Viv Albertine praising Kate Bush for having the guts to sing as crazily as she does with so much confidence, because Viv said it was hard for herself to get the confidence to perform again without feeling silly, when she hadn't been at it for a while. Does Viv sing a lot? I'm not a Slits expert.

Love Mark Hollis. I appreciated Karen Dalton but couldn't properly get into her.