Van der Graaf Generator / Peter Hammill S& D, C or D?

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I never really got into them, they were too prog-rock for my taste I guess. But still there is something about Hammill, his voice and lyrics I think.

The only VDGG album I own is Vital Live, which has its moments but I find there is something goth, megalomaniac and bombastic (the orchestral sound with the violin, sax and keyboards maybe) in there I don't like and can only take in small quantities.

The only Hammill solo I have is In a Foreign Town which I rather liked if my memory serves me well.

Which are the albums to keep/purchase?

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Monday, 7 October 2002 09:55 (10 years ago) Permalink

i bought the 4cd box set -- in the booklet hammill and co. go on about how good everything sounded when they went about re-mastering the tracks that were included -- so you get "a plague of lighthouse keepers" but not "man-erg" or "lemmings" (ok interesting but ancillary live version of "lemmings" -- well you still can't hear the words or the organ or the sax very well however well the live version might have been re-handled)

you get half'n'half re-mastered or live versions of the supposedly crucial tracks so you get all but the best song off "H.." as bbc alternative takes, 4 of the 5 songs of imo least interesting "world record" as studio re-masters, most of "still life" half live and half studio, almost half live of "godbluff" and too little or nothing of early and late albums

the re-mastered studio versions do sound very good if you want to hear all the home-made fuzz/wah/boo noises added to the super-customised organ or the 2 saxes played through effects pedals operated via elbow as fashionable '70s mo-width belt -- the lyrics are crisp too -- re-mastering seems to have given the tracks back their crucial resonant pulse-wave-modulation bass, the heavy malevolence that the cd re-issues i'd sampled lacked and that everyone admitted vinyl couldn't do justice to in the first place with a track like the 22 minute "..lighthouse keepers"

so buying the admittedly handy vaguely career spanning box-set is a catch-22 since individual cd re-issues do not contain the re-mastered versions.. yet ? when ?

― george gosset (gegoss), Monday, 7 October 2002 10:35 (10 years ago) Permalink

george, I can see how their recordings could benefit from re-mastering.

I consider VDGG seriously flawed (mostly by bombast), but at one time I was pretty crazy about them. The only thing I have much interest in hearing occasionally is "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers," which I think has some really gorgeous moments.

Solo Peter Hammill has held up even worse for me. I think the beginning of "Black Box" is beautiful, but then he has to go and express all the conflicts and complexities of modern life, through lots of changes of direction, and the whole thing is ruined. (In fact, it sometimes sounds as though he wants to make a mini-epic like "A Plague. . ." every time he records a song.)

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 7 October 2002 11:23 (10 years ago) Permalink

yes that is the problem -- songs like ".. lighthouse keepers" have great sections in them -- i really love the first third of it, but some of the other sections could be skipped -- a glaring opportunity for the use of cd sub-indexing missed, as the piece was chopped up quite formally into sections a,b,.. anyway so that some songwriting credit could go to the band (if for no other reason, says the booklet)

the organ sounds as though you're inside it, ie it doesn't sound in the least bit tinny or dinky, as the old cds and lps sometimes do -- songs like "arrow" have their own special devices and appeal and again benefit from the re-buff, sounding menacing and harsh despite the "jazz-rock" first impressions

why include three gloom ballads from hammill (from "H ..") at the expense of "the general and his war room" when that song with secret guest fripp would have rocked best given the same treatment ? (ok, the mandatory hit studio track "killer" does sound a bit droney and dated but it's still fun and the re-mix gives it real wollop)

if you listened to old versions of this bands music they sound silly/heavy, cf: the sparce array of remixes on the box,
which whilst maybe wacky, gloomy, dated, eccentric, hammillesque etc.. all sound heavy in a way that maybe explains why the band was such a hit live (big in italy), heavy as a result of "mad scientist" hugh banton evolving four increasingly powerful versions of his organ over six years, each with numerous wah, growl, fuzz, sub-oscillate etc. capacities, some of the time whilst starring as engineer for the organ manufacturer itself

― george gosset (gegoss), Monday, 7 October 2002 12:08 (10 years ago) Permalink

duh, him, he, hugh banton worked for the organ manufacturer himself, during the bands 72'-'76 hiatus

it amuses me somehow that johnny rotten would claim any positive influence on his vocal style from anyone, let alone that he claimed hammill, a semi-retired prog rock band's head meglomaniac -- if the sex pistols et. al. hadn't come along, maybe we'd look back on prog rock quite differently

― george gosset (gegoss), Monday, 7 October 2002 12:17 (10 years ago) Permalink

"Killer" is the sort of song that leaves me frustrated and ambivalent. There is something really good there, but in its case, it is all wrapped up with something else that I find a turn-off. I am left with a feeling of "This has a lot of potential." But it's a little late for it too just have potential. (In the case of that song there is also the near-nostalgia factor of its reminding me of when I used to listen to it a lot in high school and college.)

I do like those organ sounds. It seems that more could be done with those particular prog. textures, but then I'm sure there are other things which work with similar sounds but which I just haven't heard.

I would really like to like this music, since it does offer some distinctive sounds, but mostly it doesn't work together as a whole for me.

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 7 October 2002 13:11 (10 years ago) Permalink

I've just gotten the box via mp3 and might give it a listen at work tomorrow. Unfortunately the box doesn't have the one Pete Hammill song I've always wanted to hear the original of -- "Vision." Marc Almond covered it on his second solo album, and it's turned into one of his standards, regularly in his live sets from then to now. His performance is incredibly powerful and heartfelt, and I've torn myself up over the lyrics more than once when thinking about things that might have been (and maybe should have been?). So I've always wanted to hear the original, like I said -- one day.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 October 2002 15:34 (10 years ago) Permalink

"Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers" is awesome.

― sundar subramanian, Monday, 7 October 2002 19:38 (10 years ago) Permalink

Van Der Graaf Generator are for the most part just about flawless IMO. I mean, you have this band who consist of a singer who thinks he is Roderick Usher, a deranged saxophonist who wants to be Roland Kirk, and who delights in playing 2 saxaphones at once through a fuzzbox, a church organist and one of the best rock drummers ever, WHAT MORE COULD YOU WANT? I don't think VDGG were flawed by bombast. ELP, perhaps, yes, but not VDGG.
I would say that "H to He Who Am the Only One", "Pawn Hearts", "Godbluff" and "Still Life". The live album "Vital" is, I think, pretty poor - also, it's quite unrepresentative of the band's "classic" lne up as it doesn't have David Jaxon on it, except as a guest on 1 track. The BBC sessions CD, "Maida Vale" is a pretty good intro as well, if U don't want to go for thee expense of the box set. search the first four that I mentioned anyway, and given that you occasionally see "Vital" for, like 2.99 in HMV's sale bin, I can't even complain about that too much. As for Peter Hammill's solo w3rk, I would probably start w/ "Nadir's Big Chance", "In Camera", "The Future Now" and ". You have probably guessed that for me Peter Hammill and Van Der Graaf are TH33 FuX!Ng SH!T. To me they inhabit this place that very few musicians even fucking know about let alone reach. Probably only Magazine and Popol Vuh "do it" for me like hammill & vdgg do. So classic. Hammill was rowr in his younger days as well.

if anyone has a spare copy of "The Long Hello volume 1" on zomart CD theyd like to sell me BTW, contact me off list. I have lost my copy, & want another one bad, like.

― N0RM4N PH4Y, Monday, 7 October 2002 20:33 (10 years ago) Permalink

My favorites are "Least We Can Do Is Wave to Each Other", "Pawn Hearts" and "Godbluff". I think the first side of the latter two is probably the best they ever did. I think "H to He" is overrated. "Killer" has a great riff, but pretty silly lyrics.
"Refugees" is my favorite song by them. There's a great single version of it on the Virgin compilation "I Prophecy Disaster".

Solo Hammill? I like "A Black Box" quite a lot, was disappointed by "Chameleon in the Shadow of the Night". Some of his later albums, like "Fireships" and "Out of Water" are okay...

― Joe (Joe), Monday, 7 October 2002 21:52 (10 years ago) Permalink

vdgg: still life.
ph: a black box, out of water. plus some people think that his "love songs" album is a good place to start. *and* it's got vision on it! ;)

― cecilia, Tuesday, 8 October 2002 02:28 (10 years ago) Permalink

Thank you! Finally, the info I needed. :-)

Currently listening to that there box set right now. And very good it is too. The keyboardist is agreeably nuts, but I think the sax guy is even more so.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 October 2002 15:53 (10 years ago) Permalink

haha Cecilia - I wuz right!

the one prog/ex-prog band/dude I can't seem to shake, even though I haven't listened to for years
when I did, top LP picks:

Van Der Graaf Generator - Pawn Hearts, Godbluff, Still Life and The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome (which anticipates postpunk)

Peter Hammill - Nadir's Big Chance and The Future Now
(though there's interesting tracks scattered throughout his albums)

lovely record I still do throw on:
The Long Hello - The Long Hello 1973 instrumental 'solo' album featuring most of the band without Hammill
anyone know if Long Hello Vol.2 is any good?

― Paul (scifisoul), Tuesday, 8 October 2002 16:16 (10 years ago) Permalink

the only song I've really REALLY liked is "Refugees" which is wonderfully pompous and genuinely melancholy.

― dog latin, Tuesday, 8 October 2002 18:08 (10 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Came across this picture of them nowadays (l-r: Hugh Banton, Peter Hammill, David Jackson, Guy Evans):

― Joe (Joe), Saturday, 9 November 2002 05:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

Hmmm...

― Joe (Joe), Saturday, 9 November 2002 05:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

Okay, one more try, and if not, sorry I give up:

― Joe (Joe), Saturday, 9 November 2002 05:05 (10 years ago) Permalink

Aargh! Okay, if you still are REALLY that curious, go to:

www.progressiveears.com

click on "Photos" then "Musician's photos" then "Van Der Graaf Generator nowadays"

― Joe (Joe), Saturday, 9 November 2002 05:10 (10 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

the more i listen to the VddG songs on albums "H to .." and "Still Life" the more they seem to hold water as overall fragments of one big song each per album, and i now think this may be the bands strength -- that each album emerged from various concentrated sessions, with components spread across the songs, making a given song on it's own less inspiring than the album experiences, even though they're _not_ concept albums as much as seamlesslessly integrated fragments of an overall musical feeling in each case

cf: "Godbluff" and "Pawn Hearts"; more traditionl sets of long prog songs, "World Record" seemingly a collection of lesser musical bits and pieces

anyway i think their musical logic is as compelling in its own way as 2x-youth period sonic youth, or mid-period Roxy Music if rocking out ten minutes per song -- am just investigating Hammill side projects at this stage, and i don't know about "Least we can do ..",
"Vital", "Aeresol .." and "Quite Zone.." yet -- nice that there's still plenty of material to eat through

― george gosset (gegoss), Sunday, 9 February 2003 11:47 (10 years ago) Permalink

Geez... VDGG 'Afterwards' = best song evah?

I'm having trouble with this right now. I want to love this song so much. Want to proclaim it the greatest forgotten/failed/alternate uni pop great. Anyone else know it? Anyone have the first VDGG?

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Sunday, 9 February 2003 12:44 (10 years ago) Permalink

VDGG is the type of band that I really like, but
do not blame anyone in the slightest for hating.
Also, most of their songs (especially in their mid to
later period) could have worked better as
instrumentals - Hammill's lyrics are only occasionally
interesting; his voice is decent but after the first
two albums he rarely bothered to SING - he just
yelled and ranted, like a small, raging version of
David Bowie.

P.S: Another non-comformist opinion: they only really
got good starting with _Godbluff_. Better drumming,
better songs.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Monday, 10 February 2003 02:41 (10 years ago) Permalink

I think I like Peter Hammill even when I don't like him, but I saw a video recording of a performance of his in the 90's, and really noticed his tendency to speed up the rhythm of a line and make a growling jump right off the side of the music towards the end for dramatic effect. He did it so often, I could barely let myself hear the songs. I wish he'd reign that sort of thing in a bit, because I think it hurts the songs - just the lyrics could carry tons of what I'm guessing he's getting at when he does that. I don't know.

― tom (other), Monday, 10 February 2003 04:30 (10 years ago) Permalink

6 months pass...

wow, i love this shit! it reminds me of bowie totally (and also dog man star i guess, and roy budd to an extent). house with no door has that sunderland 4.30am vibe, edge of town, the other people place reprised this for lakeshore MI business maybe.

harsh dawns to come

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 14 August 2003 22:19 (9 years ago) Permalink

well, it'a august now, and so with a few more months listening i think i'm agreeing with Squirrel_Police that Godbluff is a staggering demonstration of power

'sleepwalkers' is too pompous (yet somehow that suits the ceremonial bullshit of 'gentlemen's' warfare, 'arrow' so catchy that i've maybe made myself sick of it, 'undercover man' intiguing and leaving me wanting more, 'scorched earth' an absolute gem, with its two harmonic threads merging very sneakily leaving me going "how did that happen ? will have to listen to part of it again" -- my favourite VdGG song

this was their 'comeback' album -- why was this not embraced as the smarter improved side one of led zep iv ? -- more intelligently heavy than the truly pretentious competitors 'the who' -- more coherent lyrically than bowie

i suppose the misanthropic snarl of hammill simply put people off, no matter what the lyrics were about or what the band did -- i have to agree with rock-sci that they _are_ heavily flawed -- what a pity -- a rock band with saxaphones and organ and lyrics (and songs, not 'prog' jams) was just what popular music needed, not more guitars

― george gosset (gegoss), Thursday, 14 August 2003 22:47 (9 years ago) Permalink

8 months pass...

but where to go from here? i thought audience house on the hill but not sure

― gareth (gareth), Saturday, 17 April 2004 17:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

Oh this is great great great! I used to have songs I taped off the radio from Hamill 20 years ago that I liked and yet I never got back around to investigating him or VDGG. Thank you for pointing me this way! I would have totally forgotten on my own, I think.

― bimble (bimble), Sunday, 18 April 2004 05:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

according to this, the albums ARE being remastered by Virgin,so, hopefully, someday.

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Sunday, 18 April 2004 16:25 (9 years ago) Permalink

Best wishes to Peter Hammill , I'm glad he's recovering well from his coronary.

― Colin McPhee, Thursday, 29 April 2004 20:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

I recently acquired a bunch more of his solo albums, but still have to work my way through them. His debut, Fools Mate, is quite great. Completely Van Der Graaf Generator in sound and feel, but the songs are much more down to earth. Hammill tones down (at least on the songs I've heard so far) the bombastic/arch-concept/nihilistic-angst of the tride and true VdGG albums (a plus, in my book).

Now, have to give Skin and X My Heart a play...

― Joe (Joe), Friday, 30 April 2004 01:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

Is this compilation a good introduction? Here is the track listing.

Van Der Graaf Generator: An Introduction
1. Darkness (11/11)
2. Refugees
3. Killer
4. Theme 1
5. Man-Erg
6. Sleepwalkers
7. Still Life
8. When She Comes
9. Sphinx In The Face

― earlnash, Friday, 30 April 2004 08:40 (9 years ago) Permalink

Fool's Mate seconded, my favourite of the three Hammill solo records I have. Also really like the first VDGG album, Aerosol Grey Machine, which walks the dividing line between psych and prog. Hadn't heard anything about the coronary, hope the bloke's up and at 'em again soon.

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 30 April 2004 08:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

Hah, the bloke was fucking VERY up & at 'em!!

I picked up the 1st set of 3 reissues "the least we can do is wave to each other", "H to he who am the only one" & "pawn hearts". Great mastering job, nice packaging/notes. One of the bonus tracks (on "h to he..." is this thing called "squid1/squid2/octopus" good grief it's mighty. deranged mix of fucked up free jazz & demented doomy church organ, heavy and as gothic as fuck!! it's 15m long too...

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Saturday, 4 June 2005 11:25 (7 years ago) Permalink

Have you heard the new album? I haven't, but really want to. Also, I didn't know about those reissues - extra songs sounds great!

― Pangolino 2, Saturday, 4 June 2005 16:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

Good to see the classics remastered! I simply can't keep up/save money for all the reissued goodness these days.

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Saturday, 4 June 2005 16:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

Is that "Octopus" thing related to the track on Aerosol Grey Machine with (I think) the same name?

― Jetlag Willy (noodle vague), Sunday, 5 June 2005 09:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

so what are the long-lost second album of Pawn Hearts tracks like?

― kyle (akmonday), Sunday, 5 June 2005 21:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

Those VDGG reissues are $25 each! Anyone find them cheaper?

As far as solo, I have Hammill's Nadir's Big Chance and Over. I could get The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage, and The Future Now for $8 each at alldirect.com, but since those versions came out in 1990, I'm afraid remasters will pop up soon. Anyone got info on that?

― A.S. Van Dorston (Fastnbulbous), Sunday, 4 September 2005 08:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

Those VDGG reissues are $25 each! Anyone find them cheaper?

― A.S. Van Dorston (Fastnbulbous), Sunday, 4 September 2005 08:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

i haven't seen them cheaper, no, and so I've only bought Pawn Hearts, but the improvement in sound quality was really worth it. I'll pick up the others as money permits

― kyle (akmonday), Sunday, 4 September 2005 08:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

Hammill's solo debut, "Fool's Mate" is a very fine record, indeed. Kind of like a pop Roy Harper; and "Child" is a song to truly send shivers down your spine. There's a smattering of music-hall in a few of the songs, as well as a brilliant final number, which is rather cheery, yet turns agonisingly dark, ending on a sustained, droning guitar chord.

― Tom May (Tom May), Sunday, 4 September 2005 13:19 (7 years ago) Permalink

I think the final chord (which is also the opening chord of the album) is played by a keyboard of some kind. Fool's Mate is a great introduction to Hammill's solo work, tho more playful than a lot of his later stuff.

― I Ain't No Addict, Whoever Heard of a Junkie as Old as Me? (noodle vague), Sunday, 4 September 2005 14:02 (7 years ago) Permalink

Looks like on amazon.co.uk, Fool's Mate also got the reissue treatment, but not any of the other solo albums. If CD Wow would start carrying them, I'd consider gettingthem all.

― Fastnbulbous (Fastnbulbous), Sunday, 4 September 2005 14:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

Could be a synthesizer of some sort, I suppose, though the sound is close to a guitar.

I'm sure others will get the re-issue treatment in due course - to be hoped for, anyway.

― Tom May (Tom May), Sunday, 4 September 2005 14:39 (7 years ago) Permalink

The re-releases are coming in batches, fairly chronologically I think. You can check Sofa Sound for more info.

― I Ain't No Addict, Whoever Heard of a Junkie as Old as Me? (noodle vague), Sunday, 4 September 2005 14:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

I was recently sent a copy of The Future Now, which is really enjoyable.

― Sundar (sundar), Sunday, 4 September 2005 14:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'm still waiting on FOPP selling them for £7.

― Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Sunday, 4 September 2005 14:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

Just noticed these are available at Netflix:

Inside Van Der Graaf Generator (2005)
Progressive rock pioneers Van Der Graaf Generator opened doors for groups including Genesis and Pink Floyd and remains one of the most influential yet unappreciated bands of the genre. This inside look features rare archival performance footage, plus critical reviews and in-depth analysis of the band by former Van der Graaf members Judge Smith, Nic Potter and David Jackson, as well as a team of prominent music critics and rock journalists.

Van Der Graaf Generator: Godbluff Live (2004)
Recorded on September 27th, 1975, prog rock legends Van Der Graaf Generator take to the stage to deliver some astounding rock sounds. Recorded on a tour of France, the show concentrates on the "Godbluff" album.

― Fastnbulbous (Fastnbulbous), Sunday, 4 September 2005 17:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

The recent reissues are gonna be Americanized by Astralwerks/Caroline in October or thereabouts, for substantially less money. I'm holding off.

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Sunday, 4 September 2005 17:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

I always thaought the sound at the opening and closing of Fool's Mate was a sine wave generator of some sort (maybe a synth).

And on a side note, I have a VHS of a VDGG tribute band called Van Der Graf Jr. that was shot at Barnsdall Park's auditorium, where today's Arthurfest is occuring.

― nickn (nickn), Sunday, 4 September 2005 17:58 (7 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

I reviewed the first batch of Astralwerks-distributed reissues to come out on October 4.

― Fastnbulbous (Fastnbulbous), Monday, 19 September 2005 11:13 (7 years ago) Permalink

Skipping 178 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

I'd still go for Roaring Forties and X My Heart as his best since those days.

― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Thursday, 8 March 2012 23:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

somehow I managed to never listen to world record until just now...excellent. I think I just forgot this album existed, or for some reason had heard it wasn't very good or something.

― akm, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 20:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

new PH album: Consequences out April 16

1. Eat my Words, Bite my Tongue
2. That Wasn't What I Said
3. Constantly Overheard
4. New Pen-pal
5. Close to Me
6. All the Tiredness
7. Perfect Pose
8. Scissors
9. Bravest Face
10. A Run of Luck

― frogbs, Thursday, 15 March 2012 02:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

exciting

i wish he'd play the west coast. weirdly (after not really listening to him much over the past few years) I had a really vivid dream taht I saw him play an intense show at some tiny venue, which started me diving back into the catalogue. could probably listen to nothing but Hammill/VDG for three weeks straight without having to repeat any albums.

― akm, Thursday, 15 March 2012 04:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

now, a new VdGG album? (well, kind of...)

Following on from A Grounding in Numbers released in March 2011 Esoteric Antenna are delighted to announce a new title with Van Der Graaf Generator--ALT release date 25th June 2012
'ALT' is a new studio album by the legendary VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR and follows on from the release of "A GROUNDING IN NUMBERS" in 2011.
"ALT" is no ordinary Van Der Graaf Generator album (if the term "ordinary" could ever be applied to this visionary group). PETER HAMMILL explains; "Instrumental Improvs & Experiments - Most of the music on "ALT" was made while we weren't really looking, or perhaps only while the left side of our collective brain was engaged. The album is a mixture of improvisations recorded at sound checks and in the studio and more considered sonic creations which often verge on Musique Concrete. The thirteen pieces here offer a fascinating glimpse into an alternative Van der Graaf Generator sound world. Perhaps the closest comparison would be with the second CD of "Present", but even the link with those recordings is tenuous. Even by Van der Graaf Generator standards, this stuff's at the whacky end of the scale!"

― you can expect punches, kicks and even worse (frogbs), Monday, 16 April 2012 17:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

6 months pass...

alright. time to bump this one more time.

Now i have all the VdGG original discs along with the remasters. I hate to say it but listening to them side by side I'm starting to find I like the originals better, at least when it comes to The Least We Can Do/H to He/Pawn Hearts. In the case of The Least we Can Do - I don't think there's a good sounding version of this anywhere. I have one copy where the sax is barely audience. The remaster turns the bass up way too high. I did a spectrum analysis on them and find that they are very much victims of the "loudness war" that ruins a lot of remasters. Hence why the 2005 version of Pawn Hearts always leaves me with a severe earache (obviously, you gotta listen loud). I'm kind of wondering if there are good vinyl versions out there. They blast Godbluff with loudness too and give it a lot more kick but I find you can just crank up the original and get the same effect.

― frogbs, Wednesday, 17 October 2012 16:04 (7 months ago) Permalink

i'd've sworn my old copy of The Least We Can Do sounded fine but i was young and maybe inattentive

― a pass-agg to indier (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 17 October 2012 16:24 (7 months ago) Permalink

a lot of people on fanboards were complaining that the remasters swapped noise for detail

― a pass-agg to indier (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 17 October 2012 16:24 (7 months ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

RIP bassist Nic Potter.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 17 January 2013 17:53 (4 months ago) Permalink

This via Chaki, so word probably just went out.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 17 January 2013 17:53 (4 months ago) Permalink

https://www.facebook.com/thinair/posts/10151169842843414

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 17 January 2013 18:05 (4 months ago) Permalink

http://www.sofasound.com/latest.htm

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 17 January 2013 18:06 (4 months ago) Permalink

he's been sick for a while, hasn't he?

― frogbs, Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:40 (4 months ago) Permalink

damn, gonna have to crank 'the least we could do...' which is definitely their most underrated album and definitely has the second-best song called 'after the flood' ever written on it

― imago, Thursday, 17 January 2013 19:57 (4 months ago) Permalink

Oh no! RIP Nic. That's my old dopperganger dead! See, I was once at a gig and a hippy came over to me and said "Has anyone ever told you, you look exactly like Nic Potter of Van der Graaf Generator?". Luckily my flatmate at the time had a lot of VDGG albums, so I checked out a few and found it was true! One photo, I think it was in the inner sleeve of "Vital", was esp. unnerving. I mean, I don't remember ever playing bass with Peter Hammill but this photo suggests otherwise...

(Should point that Nic ket his hair and I lost mine so the resemblance has faded over the years... once again RIP Nic)

― Designated Striver (Tom D.), Friday, 18 January 2013 11:52 (4 months ago) Permalink

RIP

― non-elitist melted poo (Noodle Vague), Friday, 18 January 2013 12:59 (4 months ago) Permalink

Sad news. Top marks for his fuzz bass line on "The Sphinx In The Face".

― doug watson, Friday, 18 January 2013 14:36 (4 months ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

can't believe I had never heard Vital before. I heard it had a bad reputation so I avoided it...now that I think about it the people who told me it sucked weren't really big VdGG fans. so there you go. Starostin calls it "hands down, the worst live album ever made by a giant of progressive rock". Dunno what to say about that - you have to buy into the theatricality I guess but for my money I am going to listen to this a hell of a lot more than stuff like Genesis Live or Yessongs, both of which are damn impressive, but nothing compared to the raw energy of this one. Plus there are 5 songs on it I hadn't heard before! (the jam at the end of "Door" is fucking incredible, by the way)

― frogbs, Friday, 8 February 2013 02:02 (3 months ago) Permalink

It's the first one I ever bought, and can't say it's my favorite. But I do owe it a spin in the modern age.

― Nate Carson, Friday, 8 February 2013 07:21 (3 months ago) Permalink

yeah Vital is the bomb. Shame though that there was no official live album from the classic line-up. there are no soundboard-quality boots out there either.

― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Friday, 8 February 2013 09:00 (3 months ago) Permalink

Good to hear this on the radio last night, David Jackson admirably ultra-skronky:

― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Friday, 8 February 2013 09:26 (3 months ago) Permalink

are there any particuarly good boots? how's the Maida Vale thing?

I guess its nice that they're releasing all this live stuff now, but I'd love to hear them 30 years younger!

― frogbs, Friday, 8 February 2013 14:29 (3 months ago) Permalink

Maida Vale is great but it's BBC sessions so they're not cutting loose to the full. As regards live concert boots there's not much from the '70s, the one that normally gets touted is Rimini 9 August 1975 (evening show). Some of the tracks from that were released officially on The Box comp and also as bonus tracks on the Godbluff reissue a few years ago, but it's a pretty raw listen.

― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Friday, 8 February 2013 15:15 (3 months ago) Permalink

yikes, I couldn't stand the bonus tracks on Godbluff...the sound quality was abysmal.

I did find something on SLSK called "Skeletons of Songs", looks to be a Jammill solo performance from 78 or so. Haven't listened yet

― frogbs, Friday, 8 February 2013 15:23 (3 months ago) Permalink

ooh you're in for a treat, that's my favourite PH solo boot. totally out there performance.

― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Friday, 8 February 2013 15:25 (3 months ago) Permalink

for my money the '75-'76 band had a totally different vibe from the original line-up- but all the tapes of the original band are super rough listens, those times when they were touring italy for the fifteenth time in 1972, so forth. there's some nice tv sessions- some clips from the french "pop deux" tv show out there on yt- and you can get a feel for what they sounded like from the squid 1/squid 2/octopus on the "h to he" remaster- it's live in the studio, but really the biggest difference between it and an actual concert is that the electricity doesn't randomly short out on them.

― rushomancy, Saturday, 9 February 2013 02:20 (3 months ago) Permalink

Holy shit, is that rushomancy from RYM? *starstruck*

― imago, Saturday, 9 February 2013 02:43 (3 months ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Just announced VdGG European tour in June will include performances each night of "Flight" (epic long-form PH solo piece, already played in N America last year) and, be still my beating heart, "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers".

― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 13:28 (1 month ago) Permalink

why did he name his 8th album ph7. wtf, pete

― frogbs, Tuesday, 26 March 2013 13:31 (1 month ago) Permalink

I think that was one of those jokes for which PH is so renowned.

― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 13:36 (1 month ago) Permalink

"pH7" was, of course, the eighth solo album, not the seventh. As a measure of acidity/alkalinity pH7 signifies perfect neutral balance; but these recordings are neither neutral nor balanced. The album is, therefore, both jokey and in disguise.

― Kontuszówka reverie (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 13:40 (1 month ago) Permalink

Aha! So it is just a way to annoy spergies like me.

I have no idea where you're located. Are you going to get to see one of these?

― frogbs, Tuesday, 26 March 2013 13:43 (1 month ago) Permalink

Yeah I'll make the Prague show I think. The premiere!

― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 13:46 (1 month ago) Permalink

Hopefully they can still bring it. I really enjoyed their show in Milwaukee even though I only recognized two of the songs (both from Pawn Hearts). That was my first time hearing Sleepwalkers!!

― frogbs, Tuesday, 26 March 2013 13:56 (1 month ago) Permalink

should really see these guys at some point before it's too late huh

― delete (imago), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 14:15 (1 month ago) Permalink

you should! especially since "one of us might die soon" is the whole reason they reformed in the first place!!

weird to think that the 3rd VdGG administration (2005-???) is actually the longest they've been together as a band

― frogbs, Tuesday, 26 March 2013 14:17 (1 month ago) Permalink

have booked tickets for the barbican, see you all there

― delete (imago), Thursday, 28 March 2013 17:40 (1 month ago) Permalink

Will probably go to the Barbican show even though it's not the same without the sax, still 3 out of 4 members ain't too bad I suppose.

― I have a stalk (Matt #2), Thursday, 28 March 2013 18:52 (1 month ago) Permalink

I had H To He on my 3 changer for a lot of last week, think tht was just cos it happened to be lying near the player when I wanted to swap over from the discs I'd had on for the previouis few days. As per ususal it had me thinking i should listen to them a lot more. Just wish I had developed as ystem so I actually knew where the rest of the discs were. Have everything from the 70s run by them, just don't have Aerosol Grey Machine which is really by a different band who just have the same name and singer isn't it? Or is the interchange between solo Hammill and band confusing even then , I'm thinking that it was originally supposed to bne a solo lp but he put a band together for it. Is That right?

the solo lps by him are great too, at least the 70s ones, haven't progressed beyond that yet.

Also love the boots from '77 which really are very edgy. Punk energy if not directly punk, & nobody needed another generic punk band did they? But did make a good model for obsessive edgy rock anyway, not sure who actually followed it.
You can hear the influence the earlier band had on the Italian scene at least, not sure about elsewhere apart from Bowie around Diamond dogs etc.

― Stevolende, Thursday, 28 March 2013 20:17 (1 month ago) Permalink

Or is the interchange between solo Hammill and band confusing even then , I'm thinking that it was originally supposed to bne a solo lp but he put a band together for it. Is That right?

The album was originally intended as a solo album by the band's lead singer and main songwriter, Peter Hammill. When the band signed with Charisma Records, a deal was worked out whereby The Aerosol Grey Machine would be released under the Van der Graaf Generator name, in return for Mercury Records releasing Hammill from his earlier contract with it

Aerosol isn't that great really, "Afterwards" excepted. Definitely pick up the late 70s/early 80s solo LPs first.

― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Thursday, 28 March 2013 20:23 (1 month ago) Permalink

Afterwards is a pretty big exception. If they'd saved that for the next album and ditched Refugees (and maybe What Would Robert Have Said and Out Of My Book, which are both nice but basically there to make up the numbers), it'd have been up there with their hiatus-straddling trilogy

― delete (imago), Thursday, 28 March 2013 20:25 (1 month ago) Permalink

A
Darkness 11/11
White Hammer

B
Afterwards
After The Flood

*drools*

*winces at track-title clash on side B*

*drools*

― delete (imago), Thursday, 28 March 2013 20:26 (1 month ago) Permalink

no way should they have ditched "Refugees", that is top 5 VdGG

― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Thursday, 28 March 2013 20:28 (1 month ago) Permalink

hmm, well if you MUST

A
Darkness 11/11
Refugees
Afterwards

B
White Hammer
After The Flood

...which gives us probably the most apocalyptic side of music ever recorded

― delete (imago), Thursday, 28 March 2013 20:29 (1 month ago) Permalink

No love for Aguarian??

― frogbs, Thursday, 28 March 2013 20:51 (1 month ago) Permalink

Octopus is the only other one I'd really go for

― delete (imago), Thursday, 28 March 2013 21:13 (1 month ago) Permalink

The Least We Can Do Is Wave to Each Other is the record to get.

I remember 'acquiring' their entire discography a very long time ago. I only listened to about half of it, and I never heard most of it more than once, but that record is great.

+1 for Refugees. I remember listening to that track a lot and putting it on numerous mixes.

I'm going by memory here (I've not heard VDGG in a long time), but I also remember listening to Killer, I think it was, from H to He, Who Am the Only One.

Might get the old HDD out and have a listen.

― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 29 March 2013 17:24 (1 month ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

listening to The Future Now for the first time, what the hell was he thinking? did a drunk Mark E. Smith produce this?

― frogbs, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 18:04 (1 month ago) Permalink

great album. one of those to play people who persist in calling him a prog rocker.

― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Tuesday, 23 April 2013 18:24 (1 month ago) Permalink

well those last few 70's VDGG albums + Nadir kinda cemented that even if he is a progger at heart that Hammill generally just follows his muse without any regard for what people want/expect out of him. also that he tends to not train himself very much when learning new things; if he had this wouldn't be half as interesting/terrifying as it is

― frogbs, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 18:52 (1 month ago) Permalink

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