Itunes, Billboard, and the marginalization of black music and black audiences in America

So today Billboard changed their policy to allow digital music sales to count on previously airplay-driven genre charts. The problem with this is that there is no way of separating by demographics like there is for radio. The radio listener chooses the station that best fits their tastes, whereas anyone might buy from Itunes. Further compounding the problem is that that isn't even true -- economically privileged listeners, who are more likely to be white, are much more likely to purchase digital music.

The introduction of Itunes data to the Billboard Hot 100 in 2005 has had the effect of slowly but surely pushing music favored by black audiences off the pop charts and top 40 (and even rhythmic) radio, to the point where there are now very few songs that cross over from urban radio to other formats. Over the past year or so, there have been only a few songs popular on the r&b charts that cross over into the top 40 at any given time, usually below the top 10 (even this year's huge rap hits "The Motto" and "Mercy" got stuck in the teens on the big chart), while most of urban radio's big songs get stuck in the 30-100 range of the Hot 100. This has also led to the trend of black music stars like Nicki Minaj and Usher creating entirely different singles for different radio formats, with pop songs for white radio and r&b or rap songs for black radio.

Billboard's new changes potentially strike an even bigger blow to black audiences being able to determine their own hits. On this week's r&b chart, with the changes enacted, Rihanna's decidedly pop (and, it should be noted, terrible) "Diamonds" jumps from #61 to #1, pushing Miguel's decidedly r&b (and brilliant) "Adorn" out of the top spot. Urban radio stations may have lost one of their last impetuses left not to play pop music with white-leaning audiences.

There's even more to this but I don't have time to explain every last factor at work right this second. Here's what's been said on the rolling r&b thread:

um... some dude... wtf is going on with the R&B chart? why is Rihanna's "Diamonds" suddenly #1?

― (whose paintings looked like (pink) vaginas) (The Brainwasher), Thursday, October 11, 2012 9:14 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ha i was just about to come to this thread to gripe about that

basically the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart has tradtionally been mostly airplay + physical single sales, so if a nominal R&B song (by, say, Rihanna) did well on iTunes and pop radio but not actual R&B stations, it wouldn't make much of an impact on the R&B chart. but as of this week, iTunes is a factor on the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop like it has been on the Hot 100 for years, so now suddenly "Diamonds" is #1, and there's now a R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay chart which is basically what the main chart used to be, and on that "Adorn" is #1 and "Diamonds is #61.

this is massively fuck up whatever confidence R&B stations and labels had left to not cater to pop crossover imo. horrible move by Billboard.

― some dude, Thursday, October 11, 2012 9:57 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And now Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs is 50 deep instead of 100.

25-deep R&B Songs chart now, too.

― Andy K, Thursday, October 11, 2012 10:20 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

R&B Songs and Rap Songs will serve as 25-position distillations of the overall Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart, highlighting the differences between pure R&B and rap titles in the overall, wide-ranging R&B/hip-hop field.

Eleven of the 25 songs on R&B Songs feature rappers, so "pure R&B" must mean songs with an R&B artist as only or lead voice.

― Andy K, Thursday, October 11, 2012 10:34 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Make that 10, not 11.

― Andy K, Thursday, October 11, 2012 10:34 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:21 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

excuse me while I find a corner to curl up into the fetal position and cry in

― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:22 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

rev's "Itunes destroyed Black American pop music" rant on twitter a few months ago was so righteous that i saved it in a doc, tempted to just post it right now

― some dude, Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:34 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

post it! i missed it!

― lex pretend, Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:36 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'd have to clean it up and re-order it for it to make sense, but here's the short version he put on tumblr: http://reverenddollars.tumblr.com/post/24446685357/positing-not-claiming

― some dude, Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:38 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ha i saw that, think i favourited it somewhere

― lex pretend, Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:42 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I've gone on at least a couple such extended twitter rants. Been meaning to start a thread on the subject here and I think I will now. Please post whatever you saved.

― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:43 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh wow, part of my gripe about this was going to be that the Country charts didn't get the same treatment but they did -- Taylor Swift leaps from #21 to #1 on the revamped download-heavy Country chart. fucking Billboard, putting nails in the coffin of terrestrial radio formats' ability to make hits.

― some dude, Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:45 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

would quite like to hear about the role itunes is playing in this - that's not in the tumblr & i don't really know

― lex pretend, Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:46 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Wonder if (the very good, all-R&B) Two Eleven has a shot at the Top Ten of the Billboard 200. "Put It Down": 70-76-72 last three weeks on Hot 100 and 16-5-3 last three weeks on Hot R&B/Hip-Hop. Doesn't really bode well.

― Andy K, Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:48 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

2 columns that chris molanphy and i wrote about r&b's hot 100 decline that get into how itunes changed things:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2011/05/chris_brown_look_at_me_now_hot_100.php

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/07/sales_slump_usher_chris_brown.php

― some dude, Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:51 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i read both of those at the time - they were great and i think i may have linked one in my independent r&b piece - but what is it about itunes that means it's an inefficient driver of r&b? it's so geared towards casual/spontaneous consumption that it inherently privileges pop?

― lex pretend, Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:54 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

whereas radio-driven r&b is dependent on gatekeepers to an extent?

― lex pretend, Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:54 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

those might be factors but the more simple truth is just that demographically speaking the songs and artists that get chart boosts from iTunes sales, particularly single sales, strongly skew pop and not urban

― some dude, Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:57 PM Bookmark

― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:18 (7 months ago) Permalink

so iTunes ID3 genre tags DO matter lol

― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:19 (7 months ago) Permalink

i'm quite shocked by this. i didn't know people still cared about billboard charts

― frogbs, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:19 (7 months ago) Permalink

It's not the charts themselves that I care about so much as how they reflect and drive cultural changes.

― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:21 (7 months ago) Permalink

yeah the charts are bullshit but they have real ramifications in terms of what gets bankrolled

― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:22 (7 months ago) Permalink

Oh and Psy has been placed on top of the rap charts, because obv "Gangnam Style" is what's hot in the streets right now.

― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:31 (7 months ago) Permalink

If you have any interest in this phenomenon, please read the Molanphy articles.

― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:33 (7 months ago) Permalink

another good reason to hate apple

― We demand justice: who murdered Chanel? (Matt P), Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:34 (7 months ago) Permalink

http://billwerde.tumblr.com/post/33381394622/chart-attacks-pt-71-or-i-really-like-brandy-too

― Andy K, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:37 (7 months ago) Permalink

Are there charts for most genres? And did they change too?

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:40 (7 months ago) Permalink

yeah the charts are bullshit but they have real ramifications in terms of what gets bankrolled

so does a list of 'what music is actually being bought'

― iatee, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:41 (7 months ago) Permalink

This is really interesting, Rev. We've never really had high-stakes multiple charts and the US system has always seemed incredibly complicated to me, but then we're a million times smaller so it's a different proposition, I guess.

― emil.y, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:43 (7 months ago) Permalink

well, they used to be lists of what music is actually being played and requested on the radio, too. but however they combine these different statistics always seems to heavily favor sales over overplay. (xpost)

― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:44 (7 months ago) Permalink

I for one never liked the idea of airplay contributing to the charts here in the UK and I'm glad it remains sales based.

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:44 (7 months ago) Permalink

but I can see why it works better in the USA. You only ever got top 40 or oldies radio here and that was it until digital radio and 1extra.

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:45 (7 months ago) Permalink

Chris Mol@nphy wrote this column in ship's column last year:

All I'll add to the exhaustive data you offer is a hobby-horse I've been riding for a couple of years now: the need for Billboard to finally add digital-sales data to the R&B/Hip-Hop chart.

They've been resisting for years, on the (implied, not overtly stated) premise that it would ruin the character of a chart that has a long history with black-owned and oriented retailers. But with that segment (along with all brick-and-mortar music retail) at death's door anyway, the sales portion of Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs has been near-nonexistent for years, making it essentially a radio chart a la the deadly, predigital Hot 100 of 2000–05.

That's led to a problem where there's no longer a radio programmer-to-consumer-back-to-programmer feedback loop that makes for great charts. I'm sure there's a one-way influence from radio to the teen urban-music buyer who then downloads a Trey Songz MP3. But with that sale not reflected on the R&B/Hip-Hop chart, the loop ends there; programmers aren't given clear enough signals of how to reflect their most avid audience members' tastes (especially young audience).

In my ideal fantasy world, you'd be able to segment iTunes/AmazonMP3 song sales to pockets of the country that have large black populations or high urban-radio listenership, but that's probably impossible, or at least fraught. But at the very least, I think it'd be trivial for Billboard to set up a rule whereby a song eligible for R&B/Hip-Hop Songs would have to hit some kind of urban-radio threshold before their iTunes sales would count toward the chart.

― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:46 (7 months ago) Permalink

here's an explanation of the changes, which affect all genre charts:

http://www.billboard.com/news#/news/taylor-swift-rihanna-psy-buoyed-by-billboard-1007978552.story

the rock charts are much less affected by this than R&B or country -- for instance this week fun.'s "Some Nights" went back to #1 after falling to #8, because it had started to run its course on radio but is still selling strong on iTunes.

― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:47 (7 months ago) Permalink

ok lol i spoke to soon -- Philip Philips and Train are now big on the rock charts

― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:48 (7 months ago) Permalink

wtf is philip philips?

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:49 (7 months ago) Permalink

Train are now big on the rock charts

chilling words in any context

― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:49 (7 months ago) Permalink

also holy shit SIX Mumford & Sons songs in a row on the rock songs chart, because that was the last big album release so every song is getting bought individually on itunes

Phillip Phillips won American Idol last year

― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:50 (7 months ago) Permalink

see that is bullshit with buying albums and the tracks being on a singles track

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:52 (7 months ago) Permalink

*chart

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:52 (7 months ago) Permalink

what i'm saying!

― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:55 (7 months ago) Permalink

it's one thing that rihanna has the #1 R&B song now, but when her album is released she'll probably take up the whole top 5

― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:55 (7 months ago) Permalink

you mentioned itunes sales in the other thread shipz - i'm guessing those are discounted albums rather than individual tracks?

apart from that and

economically privileged listeners, who are more likely to be white, are much more likely to purchase digital music

i'd be interested to know why r&b/rap/country etc might not be as digitally-driven...?

― lex pretend, Thursday, 11 October 2012 20:59 (7 months ago) Permalink

it's funny, you might've thought before this all happened that iTunes impacting singles charts might mean that new artists and grassroots successes that have been shut out by the radio industry might get a better shot at breaking through. instead, it feels like any song by the biggest stars is stomping out songs people love by less famous artists via the power of name recognition and fanatical fanclub followings.

― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:04 (7 months ago) Permalink

you mentioned itunes sales in the other thread shipz - i'm guessing those are discounted albums rather than individual tracks?

Not discounted albums, people buy lots of album tracks individually from popular albums all the time. A hit album is almost guaranteed to have several album tracks enter the Hot 100 on its week of release because of this.

i'd be interested to know why r&b/rap/country etc might not be as digitally-driven...?

That isn't quite true of country, but white demographics are a lot more likely to have internet in their homes than black/latinos. And even if they do, the white listener is a lot more likely to have spare $$$ to spend on digital music.

― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:04 (7 months ago) Permalink

i mean if you want to go by the stereotype that country fans are rural/poorer than the same would apply to them too

― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:07 (7 months ago) Permalink

seems pretty obv

― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:07 (7 months ago) Permalink

ok...how does that square with the boom in free rap mixtapes?

also, i don't think i realised til now how airplay-driven charts would help songs specifically popular in demographics with no spare $$$ to actually buy them in whatever format.

― lex pretend, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:07 (7 months ago) Permalink

Note that of the top 20-selling songs in the US during the first half of 2012, only two, #16 "Rack City" and #18 "The Motto" reached the top 50 of the r&b chart.

― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:07 (7 months ago) Permalink

what genre of music dominates the US singles charts now?

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:09 (7 months ago) Permalink

i mean if you want to go by the stereotype that country fans are rural/poorer than the same would apply to them too

― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, October 11, 2012 2:07 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't think this is as true as one might assume? A lot of well-off suburban country listeners. Or at least country seems to do fairly well on Itunes.

― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:09 (7 months ago) Permalink

capital-p Pop -- Katy Perry, Rihanna, Gaga, Kelly Clarkson, Pink, One Direction, etc. although this year stuff like Gotye and fun. has mixed things up a bit. (xpost)

― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:10 (7 months ago) Permalink

there's also the argument that buying your favorite song on iTunes (as opposed to just listening to it on the radio, streaming it on YouTube now and again, or buying the album) is a generational habit, and so things that skew younger benefit from this -- Taylor, Rihanna etc.

― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:10 (7 months ago) Permalink

i mean it sucks because a lot of these formats had been fostering new stars and putting interesting songs at #1 lately, but you're never gonna see Miguel top the R&B chart or Eric Church top the country chart again after this

― some dude, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:11 (7 months ago) Permalink

don't forget Maroon 5

― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:12 (7 months ago) Permalink

interesting stuff. i don't have my head entirely around the numbers & methodologies here, but there's something about a "return to monoculture" either in real terms or as a measurement phenomenon.

― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:12 (7 months ago) Permalink

is the pop domination due to itunes or changing of radio playlists/genre stations changing to top 40 or just one of those things that happens?

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:12 (7 months ago) Permalink

interesting stuff. i don't have my head entirely around the numbers & methodologies here, but there's something about a "return to monoculture" either in real terms or as a measurement phenomenon.

It's been happening on radio for a while. It's impossible to break the Rihanna-Goyte-Katy-Perry-Maroon-5 stranglehold on Clear Channel Radio. I mean, I hear "One More Night" every 45 minutes.

― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:15 (7 months ago) Permalink

but you're never gonna see Miguel top the R&B chart or Eric Church top the country chart again after this

to be blunt about this, it's because, even though Rihanna makes club trance, she "is R&B" (because, you know), and Taylor Swift makes pop dubstep, she "is country" (again, because, you know). right?

in a way it seems like this is a identity/identification/musicalogical problem. almost.

― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:16 (7 months ago) Permalink

Taylor Swift... makes pop dubstep?

― The Owls of Ja Rule (DJP), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:18 (7 months ago) Permalink

p much

― there is no dana, only (goole), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:18 (7 months ago) Permalink

well, it's because when five Rihanna tracks become available her fans will download them at once from iTunes.

― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:18 (7 months ago) Permalink

SWIFTSTEP

― lex pretend, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:19 (7 months ago) Permalink

What would an ideal modern chart system look like?

― wk, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:19 (7 months ago) Permalink

Taylor Swift... makes pop dubstep?

I'll assume you don't want to hear her latest track.

― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:19 (7 months ago) Permalink

What would an ideal modern chart system look like?

"Adorn" and "Springsteen" topping every chart.

― the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:19 (7 months ago) Permalink

http://soundcloud.com/taylorswiftofficial/i-knew-you-were-trouble

― lex pretend, Thursday, 11 October 2012 21:19 (7 months ago) Permalink

during the nineties when #1 meant 'this song is completely unavoidable, you know it well regardless of what radio stations or music you listen to, and it ain't going anywhere soon'.

I did not have this experience of the '90s at all. at least the latter half of the '90s.

― wk, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 00:34 (2 months ago) Permalink

ok but name some #1s of the late 90s that you can't hum, i think a lot of people would go whaaaat

― luaka boppa flame (some dude), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 00:39 (2 months ago) Permalink

I completely avoided the latter half of the 90s number ones - for ex I did not recognize a single song on that recent boy band poll

― Donkamole Marvin (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 00:41 (2 months ago) Permalink

the only ones I recognize are the big jokey gangnam style / rebecca black things like the macarena or mmmm bop. pre-internet it was pretty easy to avoid that kind of stuff if you didn't listen to pop radio. basically my total ignorance of top 40 music began at the point I went to college and ended when the internet made that stuff inescapable again.

― wk, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 00:43 (2 months ago) Permalink

'4 seasons of loneliness' is one tbf. i think that was the last #1 i hadn't heard until 'harlem shake'. excepting whitney/boyzIImen, the '#1 = monolith' trend may be most pronounced immediately before the itunes introduction (thinking of usher, outkast). jesus christ babyface must be rich as fuck.

― balls, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 00:49 (2 months ago) Permalink

how is that stuff more inescapable now??? deliberate exposure vs radio, grocery store pa's, mtv

― balls, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 00:50 (2 months ago) Permalink

I still haven't heard the majority of 90s number one singles.

― :C (crüt), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 00:56 (2 months ago) Permalink

you were a 9/11 baby there's no shock there

― balls, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 00:58 (2 months ago) Permalink

what is a Londonbeat

― :C (crüt), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 01:01 (2 months ago) Permalink

that was when music meant something, the berlin wall had fallen, pepsi was clear, and a little song called 'smells like teen spirit' had changed the world and opened ppl's minds

― balls, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 01:10 (2 months ago) Permalink

how is that stuff more inescapable now??? deliberate exposure vs radio, grocery store pa's, mtv

when I was in my 20s I didn't watch much TV or listen to the radio and didn't really know anyone my age who did either. I'm just saying it all depends on your age and to what degree you engage with pop culture, and I suspect your memory of '90s pop has a lot to do with how old you were at the time. I do think the internet makes it harder to escape this stuff though. If I wonder "what is this thing people are talking about?" I can click and form an opinion in 30 seconds. And I just find that it's more difficult to insulate your self from pop culture on the internet than IRL.

― wk, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 01:39 (2 months ago) Permalink

and for the record I did watch a lot of mtv in the late '90s and it was all Beavis and Butthead and the Real World

― wk, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 01:40 (2 months ago) Permalink

why hasn't billboard deemed baauer worthy of the r&b/hip-hop songs chart

― teledyldonix, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 09:27 (2 months ago) Permalink

yeah they make a lot of judgment calls there now that i don't totally understand

songs that Billboard deems worthy of the new iTunes-driven R&B/Hip Hop Songs chart: Rihanna's "Diamonds," Macklemore's "Thrift Shop," Justin Timberlake's "Suit & Tie"

songs that haven't been deemed worthy of that chart: Rihanna's "Stay," Flo Rida's "I Cry," PSY's "Gangnam Style," Pitbull's "Don't Stop The Party," Baauer's "Harlem Shake," Justin Bieber's "As Long As You Love Me"

― luaka boppa flame (some dude), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 10:01 (2 months ago) Permalink

sales-only chart has always been a dishonest kind of honesty if you examine the ways that music is consumed irl

― tochter tochter, please (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 10:06 (2 months ago) Permalink

Thinkpiece time!

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9005926/harlem-shake-thrift-shop-youtube-music-revolution

And it ends with:

"Friday" already seems like a throwback to a more innocent time. Back then, memes were only memes. If "Friday" came out today, Rebecca Black would have a no. 1 record.

So there you go.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 5 March 2013 23:59 (2 months ago) Permalink

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/21775499

Some music artists are buying social networking statistics to get into the charts, a Newsbeat investigation has found.

The statistics, which can be bought, include YouTube views, Twitter followers and Facebook likes.

Newsbeat has found that you can buy 10,000 YouTube views for as little as £30.

There is also a market for buying comments to attribute to the views to help authenticate them.

A data monitoring company based in America says that it has a list of artists who they believe are buying statistics to increase their popularity with record labels and radio bosses.

....

Alex White is the CEO and co-founder of Next Big Sound, which gathers information on daily physical music and online consumption around the world.

He wouldn't name which artists he suspected had been purchasing its data, but said sometimes it was obvious to see that they had.

Martin V is based in Ottawa in Canada and runs a company where people can buy tens of thousands of YouTube views and comments for less than £100.

Twitter says using a company or a computer programme to increase your online activity on Twitter is against its rules.

In a statement it told Newsbeat: "Twitter reserves the right to immediately terminate your account without further notice [if] you violate these rules."

Facebook told Newsbeat that gaining "likes" from people who aren't interested in that page is "no good to anyone".

They advised: "If you run a Facebook page and someone offers you a boost in your fan count in return for money; walk away.

"Not least because it is against our rules and there is a good chance those Likes will be deleted by our automatic systems."

YouTube agreed that purchasing views or any other channel data was against its rules and said if it found out it had been done they could go as far as terminating your account.

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Tuesday, 19 March 2013 01:54 (2 months ago) Permalink

got an email today with the subject line "Billboard Charts Now Using YouTube Data!! Get Youtube Marketing Today!!!"

― Stephen Thomas Duttywine (some dude), Tuesday, 19 March 2013 02:24 (2 months ago) Permalink

"Harlem Shake" has finally dropped from the #1 spot after five weeks. "Thrift Shop" would have been at #1 for eleven weeks without the recent rejiggering.

― skip, Friday, 29 March 2013 13:20 (1 month ago) Permalink

out of the frying pan

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 29 March 2013 16:39 (1 month ago) Permalink

like it or not, at least thrift shop "feels" like a number one record

― ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 29 March 2013 17:21 (1 month ago) Permalink

amazing dissection of how "Harlem Shake" happened: http://qz.com/67991/you-didnt-make-the-harlem-shake-go-viral-corporations-did/

― staten island on my pinky, queens on my (some dude), Friday, 29 March 2013 22:06 (1 month ago) Permalink

That's a cool article - amongst other things underlines how every viral hit is due to network effects. You either hit a hub or you don't.

― Newgod.css (seandalai), Saturday, 30 March 2013 00:48 (1 month ago) Permalink

kinda lol but mostly sad:
http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/1556367/macklemore-ryan-lewis-thrift-shop-sets-record-on-hot-rbhip-hop-songs-chart

― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 11:07 (1 month ago) Permalink

read every instance of "while" in that article as "white"

― how's life, Saturday, 6 April 2013 11:35 (1 month ago) Permalink

meanwhile "adorn" RETURNS to #1 on r&b/hip-hop airplay after many weeks of other songs being #1. this would have been its... 23rd week at #1??

― teledyldonix, Saturday, 6 April 2013 14:08 (1 month ago) Permalink

oh jk just saw that was mentioned on the miguel thread lol

― teledyldonix, Saturday, 6 April 2013 14:33 (1 month ago) Permalink

it's ok, teddy dominatrix

― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 15:28 (1 month ago) Permalink

i kinda wonder about an alternate universe where "adorn" had been released ten years ago - it would probably have been a double digit week long hot 100 number one, maybe even have had a record breaking stay there.

but in 2012/13 a 23 week long r&b airplay number one only gets you a top 20 hot 100 hit. depressing.

― prolego, Saturday, 6 April 2013 16:23 (1 month ago) Permalink

yeah i dunno... old-fashioned elements of the song aside, "Adorn" feels very much of its time, as does Miguel's whole career. and he probably wouldn't have an Usher-type profile in any era. although it does have some things in common with Mario's "Let Me Love You," which was #1 for nine weeks in '05, so you may have a point.

― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:03 (1 month ago) Permalink

It doesn't matter, for if I get gay-married, "Adorn" will be the First Dance.

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:08 (1 month ago) Permalink

actually found that article pretty weak, like he doesn't rly deliver on the nefarious corporate force pulling the strings he's implying w/ that tone & intro. like he counts Mad Decent & two internet media ones as the corporations responsible for making harlem shake happen... MD released the single & the other two are only implicated because, like, someone at College Humour posted it. (Thousands of “Harlem Shake” videos were uploaded during the week of Feb. 11, many of them from businesses with something to sell. many! oh, no!) and like, hey guess what guys, Youtube is a corporation too! and they're owned by Google, who are really BIG. and the video was posted on Youtube.

also this image linked within the article (although too small to read the text) doesn't seem to support his thesis at all. does make me wonder how they figure out if you're an african american twitter user using harlem shake in its original context tho

― flopson, Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:08 (1 month ago) Permalink

clive davis was on bill maher a few weeks ago doing book promotion and they were essentially talking about how EDM is crap (in so many words) and clive was talking about highlighting REAL MUSICIANS at his pre-grammy party and the first person he mentioned was miguel, thought that was kinda cool

― J0rdan S., Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:09 (1 month ago) Permalink

a mention of a cool person in the middle of what sounds like a very uncool chat

― flamenco drop (lex pretend), Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:10 (1 month ago) Permalink

well it was an old white hippy directing a conversation about current pop music, so yeah

i mean clive was being much more conciliatory but i'm sure he's not exactly jamming swedish house mafia in the crib

― J0rdan S., Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:13 (1 month ago) Permalink

Clive devotes a chapter in his memoir to Taylor Dayne. I read it in Target.

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 6 April 2013 17:32 (1 month ago) Permalink

aww clive and kelly clarkson are gonna have a reconciliation over a miguel slow dance

― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 18:06 (1 month ago) Permalink

ha

agree w/flopson re: that harlem shake article. it's like... MD promoting their own song? the wool has been pulled over your eyes! It didn't even really get into the real story of corporations making money off of "Harlem Shake" which is not only google as flopson said but also the companies who paid for the ads in expectation of a return.

― The Reverend, Saturday, 6 April 2013 19:10 (1 month ago) Permalink

also I have even more incentive to marry Alfred now

― The Reverend, Saturday, 6 April 2013 19:10 (1 month ago) Permalink

I'll even let you diddle those woman things.

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 6 April 2013 20:04 (1 month ago) Permalink

i kinda wonder about an alternate universe where "adorn" had been released ten years ago - it would probably have been a double digit week long hot 100 number one, maybe even have had a record breaking stay there.

nah. great song, but probably way too sophisticated and subtle to be that big of a hit. it doesn't have a big undeniable chorus.

― wk, Saturday, 6 April 2013 20:11 (1 month ago) Permalink

I definitely do not rep for the overall tone or conclusions drawn by the harlem shake article, I just loved the granular chronology of events mostly

― the drummer for gay Daddy Yankee (some dude), Saturday, 6 April 2013 23:12 (1 month ago) Permalink

love the set up that was like: after discovering social media in the 2013 superbowl half-time show, corporations were ready to exploit the next meme for their advantage... all they needed was for someone to do a quirky dance to a dubstep song & upload it to youtube

― flopson, Saturday, 6 April 2013 23:26 (1 month ago) Permalink

they gathered together into corporation headquarters for the corporation meeting

― iatee, Saturday, 6 April 2013 23:31 (1 month ago) Permalink

"men...we need a meme"

― iatee, Saturday, 6 April 2013 23:32 (1 month ago) Permalink

macklemore commanding the top 2 spots on r&b/hip-hop songs now :((((

― teddy dominatrix (dyl), Friday, 19 April 2013 07:34 (1 month ago) Permalink

round my way a lot of people who like music don't have even bank accounts (tho pre-paid disposable cards are becoming popular).

― zvookster, Friday, 12 October 2012

i see beiber is launching a pre-paid debit card

― rather ugged man (zvookster), Friday, 19 April 2013 14:49 (1 month ago) Permalink

A debeibit card

― gentle german fatherly voice (President Keyes), Friday, 19 April 2013 15:17 (1 month ago) Permalink

those Rush card commercials w/Russell Simmons are on all the time

― ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 19 April 2013 15:43 (1 month ago) Permalink

macklemore commanding the top 2 spots on r&b/hip-hop songs now :((((

― teddy dominatrix (dyl), Friday, April 19, 2013 3:34 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

well culture, we had a good run...

― Chuck E was a hero to most (s.clover), Sunday, 21 April 2013 01:52 (4 weeks ago) Permalink