Suppose you've written and recorded and produced a 4 1/2 -minute song, and you want to run it by a friend, and he says, "sure, I'll listen!". But one minute into the song he starts skipping ahead in the music. How irritated do you have a right to be?
And generally, even if you don't skip ahead, would you feel put on the spot by someone asking you to give their music a listen? (I mean not for too long, and not repeatedly, or rudely) Is there anything too weird about this, as opposed to if it were just some band?
― B'wana Beast, Saturday, 25 August 2012 07:05 (8 months ago) Permalink
Sorry, I just skipped to the end of the post.
― dronestreet, Saturday, 25 August 2012 07:11 (8 months ago) Permalink
― van smack, Saturday, 25 August 2012 07:22 (8 months ago) Permalink
on the spot, let them listen in their own time
they shouldnt skip
― suare, Saturday, 25 August 2012 08:04 (8 months ago) Permalink
OK, I'm going to take this as a serious thread and not a troll, but as someone who has both made music, and been person-who-has-friends-music-played-to-them, here are some suggestions:
How do you know they were skipping ahead? Did you ask them to listen to your music in front of you? BAD IDEA. That is definitely putting someone on the spot.
You don't necessarily know how people like to listen to music. Maybe they do like to skip ahead and check out the main riff of a song before going back and listening to the intro. (I know I do with unfamiliar music, or if I don't have a lot of time.) But you are asking them to take the time out of their day to pay attention to your music, so they - not you - should get to control how, when and under what circumstances they do that. So I'd say, you have no right to be irritated at all. You have the right to be disappointed if you feel that they didn't give your music a proper listen, or even if they didn't like it - but irritated? Fuck off. You are lucky someone took the time to listen to your music at all.
As a listener, these are things I take into account when being asked to listen to music. Some of this is from hard experience of being ~that asshole~ of bugging people to listen to stuff I've made, and getting poor reactions.
1) Give me the option when and how I listen to music. The best thing to do is give them a private link with the option of a download. If you *must* do it in person (i.e. if you're in the studio or they are at your house) then leave them alone while they listen. Do not hover. (I will sometimes go in the other room and wait for them to finish.) If you do hover, you have no right to get offended by any reactions you witness - that includes skipping ahead.
2) Don't be a bug. Obviously, this doesn't apply to your friend since you asked and they agreed - but it really depends on how well I know a person, if I'll listen to their music. Random people bugging me on social media = absolutely guaranteed I will never listen. Also, because someone has done it once, do not take it for granted that they will do it again and again, every time. Even if someone says they like what you have done, do not bombard them with more stuff. If they really like it, they'll ask for more.
The main thing is, remember that they are actually doing you a favour, listening to your music. This is the reason why musicians say "thank you" at the end of every performance. No one owes you an ear. Even friends. (I'd say, from hard experience - especially friends. Their tolerance is a gift, and not to be taken for granted.) I know, as a musician, how hugely helpful it can be to have someone you trust give your music a listen and offer feedback. But this is a favour that they give you, not a right you can demand. And that includes, that they get the right to control how they listen to music - even if that includes skipping ahead.
― my god it's full of straw (White Chocolate Cheesecake), Saturday, 25 August 2012 08:18 (8 months ago) Permalink
This reminds me of something I read in Simon Napier-Bell's autobiography. He wrote that he always hated it when people approached him and tried to play him their music, and that the only time it did work was with Marc Bolan. Marc freaking Bolan. I'm guessing that the OP is not the next Marc Bolan.Just because you made something - whether it's a song, a short film, a painting, or a cake - doesn't mean that people are under any obligation to pay attention to it. If you do ask people to listen, they're probably not going to give you a realistic appraisal, because of politeness. When someone says "hey look at these pictures of my kids, aren't they great", no-one replies "no actually your kids are ugly and you dress them like dorks".
― no-one seemed to hear him so he leafed through a magazine (snoball), Saturday, 25 August 2012 08:55 (8 months ago) Permalink
What kind of troll could thos be? ...oh, posing as someone who's outlandishly fussy? No, I guess I actually am that fussy, as far as this principle: I really think there's no proper way to listen to music than to go through all sixteen bars, or whatever, before you get to the chorus, or whatever, because it has to build up, and it may be important how it builds up. That said, I can see that other people may have other ways of listening. However, they will miss the element I just mentioned.
Oh, and as far as the specific incident, there was no hovering. I left the room immediately. I only found out they'd skipped ahead when I asked them how they'd listened to a four minute song in two minutes.
I hate to bump the thread at this point since it seems to invite some (understandable) mockery, but I have to give credit to my god it's full of straw for his answer.
And I understand the "what do you think of this dress" thing.
― B'wana Beast, Saturday, 25 August 2012 09:30 (8 months ago) Permalink
i'm always pretty happy to listen to music made by my friends. you know, within reason, depending on the weather, etc.
with that in mind, i might be annoyed or hurt if someone i considered a good friend lazily blew off something i'd made and was proud of, but you can't force interest (or even a tactful simulation), and some people are stingy with their attention. probably not worth getting too worked up about.
― i know your nuts hurt! who's laughing? (contenderizer), Saturday, 25 August 2012 10:05 (8 months ago) Permalink
Unless I was sitting, looking at a clock, I would have a really hard time telling the difference between 2 minutes and 4 minutes. "How did you listen to it so quickly?" is probably one of those questions you probably should be tactful enough not to ask unless you're prepared for an answer you don't want to hear.
Also, just saying, but assuming that everyone on the internet - especially everyone on the internet that makes music - is a "him" is a really, *really* bad look. Some people find being misgendered extremely irritating. Way more irritating than someone listening to only 2 minutes of my 4 minute track.
― my god it's full of straw (White Chocolate Cheesecake), Saturday, 25 August 2012 10:39 (8 months ago) Permalink
WCC otm itt
― some dude, Saturday, 25 August 2012 11:36 (8 months ago) Permalink
I learned the hard way not to subject close friends and lovers to my music.
In about 1999 I began improvising on the Tibetan Nose Flute. Well, I couldn't afford the flute, so I just used my nose, which I adorned with some Tibetan henna. (It hurt like hell at first, that stuff.)
I was somewhat influenced, I have to admit, by a recorder piece I saw David Bowie perform on TV called Requiem for a Laughing Gnome. Now, some will tell you this was a joke on Bowie's part, at his own expense. Certainly his presentation of the performance as a telethon in which viewers could pay him to stop lends credence to some kind of comedy aspect. But - as so often in the work of Bowie, the Goons and the Pythons - I could tell that some really serious concerns, pompous philosophies and arty pretensions lay squirreled away like nutritious acorns, buried beneath a thin (very thin) topsoil of laughs.
From the moment Bowie began a series of shrill, haunting abstract shrieks on the flute, accompanied by arrhythmic boot stomping and lines quoted at random from a pornographic version of puppet drama Sooty, I was captivated. I knew that this kind of dazzling multimedia spectacle was the artistic crossroads where I too, henceforth, would pitch my stall, tar my stick, and fling my quoit.
At first Dierdre, my lover of the time - a cashier at Woolie's on the Lambeth Road, and a darling - was supportive. She stood by with tissues to collect the excess spittle which dripped from my nose, fed me marshmallows during the foot-stomping sections, and clapped generously every four hours, when I finished a piece. But gradually I began to notice her patience wearing thin.
My nose was also wearing thin, so I asked Dierdre if I could use hers. That was the final straw. The central shaft, the load-bearing pole, of the big top of my dreams snapped. Dierdre refused me the use of her nose, even for money, and left me.
Now I hear she lives with a trombonist who plays on a foreskin. And what hurts most is that it isn't even his own. She lets him use hers.
― Grampsy, Saturday, 25 August 2012 12:18 (8 months ago) Permalink
― Poliopolice, Saturday, 25 August 2012 14:38 (8 months ago) Permalink
here's the thing about music and musicians: for the most part, i know that my music doesn't mean much to anyone else but me. even if i spend ages working out songs and lyrics, it's not going to mean jack shit to anyone else, and if anyone cares at all, it's generally despite the music not because of it. people give it time because they know and like me, not because they think i'm a good musician or that i write good songs (even though i think i am a very good musician and i think i write good songs). getting anyone you know to give your music time is still an uphill battle, because getting people to donate their time is always an uphill battle.
at the risk of sabotaging my own musical aspirations, i never ask people to listen to my music because i know they don't care about it, or only care about it because i'm involved. but i know that by asking for their time, i am asking for a favor (and in a roundabout way, asking them to lie), unless they approach me about it first. if i ever show my music to anyone, it's because they asked to hear it. if i were to give my music to someone without their asking, i would ensure them the opportunity to listen on their own time, and i would never bring up the topic again later ("so what'd you think???"), but rather give them the opportunity to take up the topic so they don't have to lie about having liked it or even listened to it.
for that reason, and as a musician myself, i admit that i don't generally like being asked to listen to other peoples' music, especially when they're around. you end up being put on the spot and lack the time to generate a positive comment-- which is often a hard thing to do, because let's face it, your friends' music generally sucks. most music sucks. so what's the chance that this isn't going to suck? probably small. that's the reality of art-- most is mediocre or terrible. the least someone could give you is the time to come up with a positive comment; doing this at least allows the other person to save some face about their complete lack of interest.
― Poliopolice, Saturday, 25 August 2012 15:08 (8 months ago) Permalink
As I might have mentioned many years ago, I have kidney stones and regularly have lithotripsy on them, at the same hospital with the same team around me, and with a soundtrack mix cd compiled by me for each occasion. Oh, and I'm usually off my face on morphine to dull the pain. One time, the chap doing the litho noticed me reading "Sound on sound" magazine in recovery, and we chatted about making music. The next time I went in for litho my cd jumped and farted and basically stopped playing, so the chap operating the litho machine said "Would you like to hear some of the music I've recorded?" Well, what can you say? It was okay, as music goes, but frankly I was off my face and it could have sounded like elephants shagging and I wouldn't have known any different. But when he was asking if things could be different about the mix, all I could muster was something about less reverb on the vocals. He hasn't offered to play me any more since. Lovely bloke anyway.
― Rob M Revisited, Saturday, 25 August 2012 15:18 (8 months ago) Permalink
your friends' music generally sucks. most music sucks. so what's the chance that this isn't going to suck? probably small. that's the reality of art-- most is mediocre or terrible. the least someone could give you is the time to come up with a positive comment; doing this at least allows the other person to save some face about their complete lack of interest.
I love listening to a friend's music and being asked to comment. I love getting real excited when it's good, and I love getting constructive when it's bad. I love trying to find delicate ways to say "that song blows". I love saying "that riff sucks" and "retake those vocals" and "ooh your drummer isn't that good" and "record to tape next time".
In contrast, I hate listening to music made by strangers and not being able to comment firsthand on its qualities and/or shortcomings. Friend-rock, locally made music, that's the best music.
― nedless summer (Ówen P.), Saturday, 25 August 2012 18:06 (8 months ago) Permalink
I listened to pplains' Soundcloud track over lunch and it's awesome btw
― nedless summer (Ówen P.), Saturday, 25 August 2012 18:15 (8 months ago) Permalink
I have so many memories of being in bands, having someone new join, and giving them a CD of songs to learn. 10 times out of 10 they will not listen to any of them!
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 25 August 2012 20:31 (8 months ago) Permalink
Usually when i play someone my music, and halfway through i get too self-conscious about it, so i skip to another song or stop it and say let's do something else. It takes me alot of effort to play it through the entire way. I have low self-esteem or something.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 25 August 2012 20:33 (8 months ago) Permalink
Owen, you are the most unrelentingly positive person on ILX and it MAKES ME SICK. (ha ha just kidding)
Actually it's pretty easy to remember exactly what it was that killed my enthusiasm for listening to friends bands/local music. It was starting to write for a magazine, and the sheer number of mediocre bands whose music I was forced to sit through. Before that, I was actually really into hearing what my friends were doing. But after that, it just got me down the number of people who would try to get an in with you because they thought you could get them coverage.
Also, and this sounds really petty, but it did get me down - experiencing a lack of reciprocality from friends. That I would put a lot of effort into listening to something critically and try to provide good feedback or at least constructive criticism. And then I'd send them something I did, and it would be like... nothing. Not even so much as a polite "nice track." But then they'd send you six more songs to listen to and it'd be like... this isn't fair. It's dispiriting.
― my god it's full of straw (White Chocolate Cheesecake), Saturday, 25 August 2012 23:17 (8 months ago) Permalink