All Hands on the Bad POLL - Sleater Kinney

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Poll Results

OptionVotes
You're No Rock and Roll Fun 14
Youth Decay 6
The Swimmer 3
Ironclad 3
All Hands on the Bad One 3
#1 Must Have 3
Leave You Behind 2
Pompeii 1
Milkshake n Honey 1
Was It a Lie? 1
The Professional 1
The Ballad of a Ladyman 1
Male Model 0


a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 July 2012 00:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

Prob my least fave of theirs, but there are some keepers. Torn btwn "Youth Decay" and "The Swimmer."

Simon H., Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

everyone on ilm thinks this is the bad sleater-kinney album except me, iirc.

lol xp

horseshoe, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

Title of poll should be 'all votes for the bad one'.

Tim F, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

"youth decay" is a good song. i like the strident ones, though.

horseshoe, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think it's one of their better albums.

congratulations (n/a), Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

this was their worst until The Woods. But while the latter was didactic and dull enough to keep me from listening to Wild Flag, AHOTBO now sounds awesome.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

Probably third best after Hot Rock and Dig Me Out.

congratulations (n/a), Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

and to all the ladies out there i wish
we could write more than the next marketing bid
culture is what we make it yes it is
now is the time to invent

will always have a piece of my heart tbh.

xp that's how i would rank them, too, nick!

horseshoe, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

The Woods rules. One Beat is probably my fave on balance though.

Simon H., Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

well, dig me out is at the top for me, but whatevs

horseshoe, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

you're no rock n roll fun was the first S-K song i ever heard so its got a spesh place in my heart

Hungry4Ass, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

My top five:

Dig Me Out
One Beat
The Hot Rock
All Hands
Call The Doctor

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

love "you're no rock and roll fun." so saucy

horseshoe, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

This has ended up being my favorite one, and "#1 Must Have"—as odd as it is—is one of my absolute favorite S-K songs.

Johnny Fever, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

you're no rock n roll fun was the first S-K song i ever heard so its got a spesh place in my heart

― Hungry4Ass, Saturday, July 28, 2012

I don't underestimate this fact at all. My two big SK-loving friends discovered them thanks to this single. For me, buying this album on release day was a big deal, after resisting DMO for a year and a half. And it took AHOTBO to make me love THR.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

i dug up my copy of One Beat last year and gave it my first listen since 2002 and it held up really well for me; i probably like it more now than i did then

Hungry4Ass, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

One of my best memories of 2000 was of friends suddenly discovering how awesome SK were and being in cars where every SK song between 1996 and 2000 played at some point.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

thats one of my best memories of 02!

Hungry4Ass, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

SK is responsible for my first Chicago trip: a pair of shows in October 2002.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

i miss sleater-kinney y'all

horseshoe, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

can't get to heaven in your sunday best
the night before they were callin it your cocktail dreeeess

horseshoe, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

"Milkshake n Honey" maybe their best Yoko-B-52's hybrid?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

like hot rock and one beat, this begins with 4 great songs and then kind of sucks.

youth decay for me

call all destroyer, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

am honestly not trying to start anything, but is part of the reason people don't like this album that the lyrics are sort of bluntly/resentfully feminist in a lot of cases? like, either people perceive it as unsophisticated or didactic or something? or is it some music thing i don't understand/know how to talk about?

i love the shit out of this album, so i was surprised when i noticed s-k fans on ilm tended not to rate it.

horseshoe, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

cad, surely you like "leave you behind"!!! so pretty!

horseshoe, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm going to be a dick and vote for Leave You Behind, but it's definitely You're No Rock and Roll Fun. Probably my favorite Corin vocal, esp. on the phrase "like a piece of art that no one can touch."

Marco YOLO (Phil D.), Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

not didactic. dogmatic. maybe both. i don't know. those are things i like.

horseshoe, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

every s-k album has some lyrical clunkers, it doesn't in my mind have anything to do with feiminism.

like "combat rock" is unsophisticated and didactic about a different topic; it was kind of their thing at times.

call all destroyer, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah i do like "leave you behind!"

call all destroyer, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

i didn't mean to overgeneralize, mostly i mean those three albums totally kick ass at the beginning and then kinda lose steam

call all destroyer, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

nothing on this album as bad as "Entertain"

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah, the woods is the album where that dogmatic strain in sleater-kinney kind of curdles for me. but, like, the "disassemble your discrimination" backup vocals in "step aside" are totally adorable to me.

horseshoe, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

but some people seem really fond of the woods so maybe i should give it another try.

horseshoe, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

'leave you behind' and 'you're no rock n roll fun' were so huge on local college radio. this was the first one after the hiatus so i was just super happy they were back but also this weird mix of disappointed they didn't take another step forward after hot rock while also suprised and happy they had made such a straightforwardly fun and vaguely pop record. if someone asked me what their best is i'd say dig me out everytime but i think i'm more likely to actually listen to this one or hot rock. voted 'ironclad'. now going to go listen to a fuckload of s-k. despite everything i still love you carrie brownstein.

balls, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

Wild Flag were terrific at Pitchfork btw

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

lyrically The Woods is full of dross but it's such a fun visceral listen that I kinda don't care

Simon H., Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

is i'd say dig me out everytime but i think i'm more likely to actually listen to this one or hot rock. voted 'ironclad'. now going to go listen to a fuckload of s-k.

after "Entertain" and her NPR columns we had what amounted to a lover's spat. It's all good now.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

ohhhh maybe it's because it's poppy that i always hear people disliking this record.

horseshoe, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

not sure i get what makes it more poppy than the other sk albums between dig me out and the woods?

call all destroyer, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

my only musical issue with sk is that they should be super tight and kinda aggro all the time but they wrote a lot of aimless, noodley songs.

call all destroyer, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

haha what?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

song lengths only started to creep beyond four minutes on One Beat!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

something like the verses of #1 must have, for example--all choppy with these little single-note guitar parts. not really pleasant to listen to at all.

call all destroyer, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah it's not really a song length issue, it's kind of a *guitar player* criticism. sometimes i wish they had a bassist.

call all destroyer, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

yes i have often wished they had a bassist. love and just voted for #1 must have, though. i don't know how to talk about music but the choppy guitar suits the verses imo.

horseshoe, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

cause she's kind of spitting the words out. maybe that's too on-the-nose, i don't know.

horseshoe, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah that seems true, just not really my thing

call all destroyer, Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

"Was It A Lie?" is harrowing, brilliant, and the sleeper on this album.

Jeremy Spencer Slid in Class Today (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 29 July 2012 01:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

something like the verses of #1 must have, for example--all choppy with these little single-note guitar parts. not really pleasant to listen to at all.

Disagree. It's like winding up a toy car that gets let go during the refrain at the end and speeds across the floor! Delayed gratification.

Johnny Fever, Sunday, 29 July 2012 02:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

milkshake n honey is such a weird blend of compelling and cringeworthy on like a line-to-line basis

johnny crunch, Sunday, 29 July 2012 20:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

Voted for YNR&RF but maybe it should've been Leave you behind

kinder, Sunday, 29 July 2012 20:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

i don't totally remember how all of these go (haven't listened to this album in a few years) but i'm leaning towards "youth decay"

i have the YNRNRF 7" iirc but can't remember anything about the b-side "maraca"

my memory sucks!

moesha my reflection (donna rouge), Sunday, 29 July 2012 21:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

"pompeii" still pops up into my head every now and again tho - BABY DON'T YOU DARE GIVE UP ON ME NOW

moesha my reflection (donna rouge), Sunday, 29 July 2012 21:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

Personally speaking, I just don't care for the poppiness of the record so much, though what CAD sez,

all choppy with these little single-note guitar parts

... is something I hear throughout a lot of their records, and which to me sounds like unfinished songwriting, and I suppose that this album feels like it has the highest concentration of the uncooked songs.

My ambivalence definitely doesn't have to do with the lyrical content, because when horseshoe sez that AHOTBO is the feminist album, I was all, "Aren't they all feminist?" (Which is to say, I almost never pay close attention to lyrics.)

Nothing cracks a turtle like Leeeon Uris (Leee), Sunday, 29 July 2012 21:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

It gets the "feminist" tag moreso because it was the bands response to Woodstock '99 and the Mook Rock explosion the previous two years.

Jeremy Spencer Slid in Class Today (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 29 July 2012 21:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

voted the swimmer after listening one more time. solid s-k top to bottom - not my fave of theirs and don't get some of the lyrics but i'm prejudiced and think they could do no wrong

making plans for nyquil (outdoor_miner), Sunday, 29 July 2012 23:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think "Leave You Behind" is one of their prettiest/saddest breakup songs, up there with "Good Things" and "One More Hour."

something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Monday, 30 July 2012 05:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

this was the first SK i heard, so i've played it to death and almost never put it on anymore. but 'youth decay' still sounds intense and kind of scary every time i hear it.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 30 July 2012 06:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

i was "getting over" grindcore and hardcore and shit for the first time when this came out, and i played it to death, and i don't understand why no one likes "Ironclad."

that and "Youth Decay" I remember every note and lyric, otherwise, this record is kind of blank for me.

for reasons of sass (the table is the table), Monday, 30 July 2012 06:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

i miss sleater-kinney y'all

― horseshoe, Saturday, July 28, 2012 9:14 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Grimy Little Pimp (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 30 July 2012 13:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

this may not be the best sleater-kinney record but who cares - they are p great (bar the first one).

youth decay, #1 must have, leave you behind, ironclad, the professional, male model, milkshake and honey - any record with these songs on them will be one of the best records ever

"deep beyond Wang" (a hoy hoy), Monday, 30 July 2012 13:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

am honestly not trying to start anything, but is part of the reason people don't like this album that the lyrics are sort of bluntly/resentfully feminist in a lot of cases? like, either people perceive it as unsophisticated or didactic or something?

I've been thinking about this a lot, and personally I don't think the problem is that they're "bluntly feminist" per se. There are plenty of feminist politics in the previous albums, but there were also higher emotional stakes. They were older, they weren't going through an internal break-up, they knew they had successfully become Joey Ramones to a considerable fanbase. That kind of post-success what-now is a lucky problem to have, but I know it's not fair to ask a band to stay in an emotionally intense blitz-or-tears state. There are still solid songs here, and I don't think it's unloveable at all (I realize "#1 Must Have" won't live or die by the pace for everybody) but I think preferring the album that starts "they want to socialize you/they want to purify you" and gives track 11 to "I'm Not Waiting" over the album that starts with "Eye cream and thigh cream, how 'bout a get-high cream?" and gives track 11 to "Milkshake'n'Honey" isn't really a political thing.

da croupier, Monday, 30 July 2012 14:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

now that you've written the lyrics out to both songs it's impossible to think they weren't always "political."

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 July 2012 14:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

all bands are political; in SK's case it's how literally they want to grapple with identity and sexuality as people and as members of a female rock band. It changes a bit when they start to use grad school jargon.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 July 2012 14:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

da croupier's Replacements reference up above is otm in the sense that the more they obviously thought about what they were doing, the more obviously thought-out it all became. Which shows up more in the lyrics than the tunes, with the result that some of the stuff on the later records actually seems less sophisticated than something like "Joey Ramone," because it's all so spelled-out.

something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Monday, 30 July 2012 15:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

(Though to be fair even on Dig Me Out, you've got the cringingly clunky "Heart Factory." They were always prone to an embarrassing line or two.)

something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Monday, 30 July 2012 15:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah, i wasn't sure exactly how to characterize what i perceive as a political difference between ahotbo and the earlier albums; it's not like there's a s-k album that's neutral on feminist politics. i guess i feel like the earlier albums are more personal. and i do think the voice on ahotbo is sometimes resentful--this tendency would reach its apotheosis with "modern girl" on the woods imo. i am often resentful, so i vibe to it, but i wondered if it might be offputting to dudes.

horseshoe, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 00:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

sort of a separate issue from lyrical clunkers which, i agree, show up on all their albums

horseshoe, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 00:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

the flip side of the resentful voice is the exuberant one--"disassemble your discrimination" on "step aside." i love that song so much.

horseshoe, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 00:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

I wanna give this to Pompeii because of how awesome Corin's delivery on "iwannaiwannaiwanna FORTUNE WEARY LOVE" is. But Ironclad wins as an actual song.

Everything You Like Sucks, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 02:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

I've listened to "Youth Decay" twice today. Thanks, guys.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 02:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

i do think the voice on ahotbo is sometimes resentful--this tendency would reach its apotheosis with "modern girl" on the woods imo. i am often resentful, so i vibe to it, but i wondered if it might be offputting to dudes

i'll admit they do strike me as more smug when the music deintensifies and the singers get arch - these are people who felt the need to tell us they're not afraid of Y2k. But personally feminist content isn't a crime so much as not enough of a reward in those moments.

da croupier, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 05:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

I like "Modern Girl"!

Nothing cracks a turtle like Leeeon Uris (Leee), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 05:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

i love "modern girl," but it makes me a little sad

horseshoe, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 05:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

i was "getting over" grindcore and hardcore and shit for the first time when this came out, and i played it to death, and i don't understand why no one likes "Ironclad."

i had a college radio show when this came out, i played the shit out of 'ironclad' (and 'milkshake and honey' too cuz i heard it was embarrassing or something and i couldn't understand why).

i got pretty put off s-k when 'one beat' came out, so i haven't listened to them in a long time except for 'hot rock' occasionally. listening to 'all hands' now - i forgot how unreal their singing can be.

j., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 06:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

This was my first S-K record (I'm another person that had sort of missed the boat until "YNRNRF" (had heard of them but not heard the music), and I remember being disappointed by it. On the breakup thread I wrote It took me forever to get into it - really till I got it on vinyl, actually. I think this has to do with tracklisting - it feels overlong for some reason that I've never quite placed. So along with One Beat it's definitely a "grower" for the fan....but look at what you get: "Rock n' Roll Fun," their straightest and best shiny pop number, "Youth Decay," "Milkshake n' Honey" for pete's sake! There's some great material here. I'll concede that there's a stretch where it starts to feel just a bit same-y...

I still sort of feel the same way - there's something a bit thin-sounding and unfocused on this record, but the best songs would slide just fine onto Hot Rock, especially Ironclad and Youth Decay. Listening to it now before I vote though.

I'm one of those people who really get their impressions clouded by cover art and other non-musical things - there's something impersonal about the presentation of this album that maybe also makes it feel more different in their catalogue than it actually is, if that makes any sense.

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 16:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

This was a massive disappointment for me when I got it, but I can't remember a thing about it now. I think I only listened to it once or twice, thought it sucked and filed it away. Although coincidentally I dug it out recently and put it on my listening pile cos I figured it was time I gave it another go. I remember it getting good press at the time, I'd been a fan since Dig Me Out (I got Call The Doctor first, but it was around the time Dig Me Out came out) and it left me cold. That was a long time ago now so there's a good chance I was wrong...

Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 16:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

I've never given this band a fair shake, despite them being totally beloved by the good people I worked. In college radio with. There's nothing that turns me off of checking out a band faster than suspecting that they wear good-for-you politics on their sleeves.

Clarke B., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

You needn't worry about that.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

You think Dig Me Out is the best one to dive in with?

Clarke B., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yes. Or One Beat. CTD is marvelous but as a first timer you need to hear their power when they boasted a real drummer.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

SK is responsible for my first Chicago trip: a pair of shows in October 2002.

Oh we were at the same show then!

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

Thursday or Friday?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

Don't remember -- it was 10 years ago!

I voted for "The Professional," btw. Kind of a throwaway, but I love it.

Trewster Dare (jaymc), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

You think Dig Me Out is the best one to dive in with?

― Clarke B., Tuesday, July 31, 2012 10:11 AM (56 minutes ago

oh hell yes, it's fantastic

contenderizer, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 18:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

Agree with Dig Me Out as well.

Clark B, you may not utlimately end up loving them, but SK never let their beliefs etc. get in the way of rocking and having fun, it just wasn't all about rocking and having fun. Lots of non-political enjoyment to be had for sure.

grandavis, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 18:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

on a side note, when i was in olympia recently, my boyfriend kept pointing out to me the sleater-kinney street signs and laughing at me on the bus and i was all "SHUT THE FUCK UP SLEATER KINNEY WERE AN AWESOME BAND"

for reasons of sass (the table is the table), Thursday, 2 August 2012 22:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Saturday, 4 August 2012 00:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

You think Dig Me Out is the best one to dive in with?

fnarf

thomp, Saturday, 4 August 2012 00:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

Voted for "Youth Decay" just over "Milkshake n Honey." Already having second thoughts.

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 4 August 2012 01:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Sunday, 5 August 2012 00:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

Fill our Christmas socks with whiskey drinks and chocolate bars.

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 5 August 2012 00:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

think i never voted but just had a good xperience driving fast to 'youth decay' so +1 4 that

johnny crunch, Sunday, 5 August 2012 01:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

"The Swimmer" is the only track I can't recall.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 5 August 2012 02:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

The new Corin Tucker song is pretty awesome, guys. It's about some Oregon beach town and people having sex. I'm into it.

Everything You Like Sucks, Sunday, 5 August 2012 03:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

there can't be too many songs about that

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 5 August 2012 03:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

4 months pass...

I finally got around to listening to this album again today and it is way better than I remember it being. I can't even remember why I didn't like it when it came out. Maybe I thought it was too poppy? My loss I guess. Would probably have voted Youth Decay.

Just noise and screaming and no musical value at all. (Colonel Poo), Saturday, 22 December 2012 14:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

*pulling out album*

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 22 December 2012 14:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

all hands on the album

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 22 December 2012 14:40 (1 year ago) Permalink


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