Screamadelica vs Kid A

An old style ILM thread, long posts abound..

Am I the only one who still can't choose?

Drukqs feels like longer ago because drill and bass in general just feels like such a late 90s thing, it's had virtually no impact on music from the intervening 10 years, whereas you couldn't say the same about Kid A no matter how anachronistic it felt at the time.

I think WCC is onto something wrt abstraction, but then a lot of the source material Radiohead were drawing on is abstract as hell. But while the abstraction may have explained why listeners were nonplussed at the time that was articulated as "where did the guitars and tunes go?"

I knew several people who, at the time of Kid A's release, were doing big arm-waving "aren't they amazing, innovotaive future electronic muisc wooh!" dancing; generally people who'd paid no attention whatsoever to anything else electronic. Which I found annoying. But that was just my social circle.

guess also I should have raised the issue of innovation as perceived marker of quality on the Autechre vs Aphex Twin thread, when several people were saying that they preferred Autechre to Aphex Twin ~because they were more innovative~ or words to that effect.

who was saying this?

OK, I tossed a coin, and realised without looking at the result what I wanted it to be.

Kid A it is.

About a year ago, it'd have not been a question, but I got the remaster/re-release of "Screama" and realised I like it more now! The tracks I wasn't so bothered about are now things of beauty...

And yes, WCC above, it was always about the 'Don't fight it feel it' for me!

See, if I was to pick one band over the other, it'd be the PScreams. But.. hey.

To me it's always been about "Inner Flight", "Loaded", and "Come Together", all incredible tunes. Agreed that Screamadelica is much more uneven but it's the album I want to listen to more

I've never thought of Screamadelica as uneven. It has a perfect E'd-up arc - Euphoric opening > harder dance tracks > blissed-out epiphany (with undertones of disquiet) during which Bobby G virtually disappears > angst > flashback to earlier > happy ending.

What do people who think it's uneven dislike? Besides, presumably, Damaged.

I'm kind of prejudiced against Kid A for some reason. Despite all the arguments in this thread in favor of it, which are mostly convincing and articulate, I still can't shake the impression of it as a bit of a IDM re-branding exercise. Like, buying the entire back-catalog of Warp are carefully studying it in a pained attempt to overcome the anxiety of following OK Computer. It wasn't that RH were poaching from 'the underground' or 'club culture' - bands like Autechre, Pole, Matmos, Boards of Canada, Aphex Twin or even things like Cornelius and other electronic stuff were immensely popular within indie circles at the time anyway - it was the obvious transparency of moving into that space after their association with mid-90s Brit pop that I honestly found more than a bit uninspired.

That said, I remember reading more sensitive reviewers at the time arguing in favor of their 'ambassadorial role' of 90s post-rave electronica, I felt like I was being unfair with my internal reactions and bought a copy of the album to check out, but it never really clicked with me. It's always felt a bit detached, a bit calculated and left me cold. It wasn't just that my initial reaction stayed with me in a somewhat more repressed way, but I've also never fully grasped why people rated it in the first place.

I don't like the comedown section at all really, I've usually tuned out by Damaged -> I'm Coming Down -> the second Higher Than The Sun. It all feels a bit clunky.

I've also referred to some electronic artists as bands above, but I guess it makes sense in the context of that post.

I like "I'm Coming Down" but yeah that section seems kind of odd, also I feel "Don't Fight It" is really, really long

KID A vs VANISHING POINT/ECHODEK/XRTRMNTR is a fair fight. Vs. SCREAMEDELICA, not so much. "The National Anthem" alone wins, much less the whole rest of the album.

I don't hear any krautrock on Screamadelica really

me neither

yeah "krautrock influence" is such an obtuse term these days and something I've heard used to describe basically anything with a steady drumbeat or a guitar solo

that said Kid A definitely has some kraut in it, Screamadelica, not really

I'm kind of prejudiced against Kid A for some reason. Despite all the arguments in this thread in favor of it, which are mostly convincing and articulate, I still can't shake the impression of it as a bit of a IDM re-branding exercise. Like, buying the entire back-catalog of Warp are carefully studying it in a pained attempt to overcome the anxiety of following OK Computer.

This is the narrative that everyone keeps mentioning when trying to make sense of the record. I suspect it's more based on Thom going on about Warp records in interviews rather than the sound of the album itself. Aside from the vocal effect on the title track and the vaguely Selected Ambient Works quality of Treefingers, I don't hear anything on the rest of the that codes as IDM-inflected?

Everything In Its Right Place & Idioteque don't sound to me like anything any Warp artist was doing at the time.

Crazee bus typing x-post but Bobby G lifted chunks of "Yoo Doo Right" for lyrics on Screamadelica!

& Screamadelica is one of those rare rare albums that (if you take Damaged out) is absolutely perfectly sequenced.

(and I often complain that RH albums are badly sequenced. For a dude who spends so much time DJing Thom has very little sense of set flow. Meow. Which is odd because they seem to get it right live. Maybe I only really love about half of any given RH album. I am the worst fan ever.)

I...guess. I mean that I was blind/believer line is also straight out of Amazing Grace but whatevs

Crazee bus typing x-post but Bobby G lifted chunks of "Yoo Doo Right" for lyrics on Screamadelica!

But what do borrowed lyrics have to do with musical synthesis?

Bobby G lifted chunks of "Yoo Doo Right" for lyrics on Screamadelica!

yeah, but the music doesn't sound anything like can

Trust me, as a child of a priest I know the lyrics to Amazing Grace. That "you made a believer out of me" ain't in it.

But hearing "influence" is an impossible game. P sure Weatherall's "roots of Screamadelica" mixtape had it in it. To give him credit, Bobby G was waxing enthusiastic about krautrock before it was trendy - or maybe I'm saying that bcuz first place I heard of Can was thru JAMC's cover.

ah right it's the blind/but now I see bit
still

think there's a pretty clear pro-krautrock through-line from PiL to JAMC to XTRMNTR to whoever personally

now that I think about it the Mondays sound more krautrock-y than Screamadelica lol

XTRMNTR, I can see

and PiL. not J&MC so much.

they covered Mushroom

Yeah we were at the gig going "Oh, I like that new song "I'm gonna keep my distance"

they covered Mushroom

yeah, i guess that counts as pro-kraut boosterism

Kid A. I've never really been keen on Screamadelica.

OK Computer and In Rainbows are perfectly sequenced I think. Kid A and Amnesiac not so much.

think there's a pretty clear pro-krautrock through-line from PiL to JAMC to XTRMNTR to whoever personally

there was a period in the late 80s into the early 90s when it seemed that everybody was pushing can and krautrock:

1985: the fall - i am damo suzuki
mid 80s: jesus & mary chain - "mushroom"
1988: loop - "mother sky"
1990: thin white rope - "yoo doo right"
1990: flaming lips - "take meta mars" (obvious "mushroom" rip)
1992: kendra smith - "she brings the rain"
1992: th faith healers - "mother sky" (big krautrock boosters in general)
early 90s: stereolab's neu fetish

someone else did a "mother sky" cover in the late 80s, but i can't for the life of me remember who...

left out Spacemen 3 in that lineage

yeah, good point. other points on the curve:

sonic youth claim can as an influence, something i think you can hear in primitive form on early tracks like "the burning spear" and "brave men run"
can as a frequent reference point in reviews of noisy/drony stuff like live skull and a.c. temple during the early 90s
paperhouse records (active 1990-93)

I'd like to thank this thread for getting me to go back and listen to Screamadelica for the first time in a long time. Don't Fight It, Feel It sounds much better than I remember it being, Moving On Up not quite as good as I remember but still good. Those two plus Higher Than The Sun are the big keepers for me. I still kind of hate Loaded but there you go. What also strikes me generally is how slow a lot of the tunes sound now.

In Rainbows is the worst sequenced album in RH's entire bunch!

I think that The Teardrop Explodes can probably go quite early in that sequence, in fact they might even claim the "first!" of indie Krautrock obsession?

This is the narrative that everyone keeps mentioning when trying to make sense of the record. I suspect it's more based on Thom going on about Warp records in interviews rather than the sound of the album itself. Aside from the vocal effect on the title track and the vaguely Selected Ambient Works quality of Treefingers, I don't hear anything on the rest of the that codes as IDM-inflected?

Beats-wise, I certainly can hear Autechre Amber-era on Idioteque or the Anti EP, even... but I'm sure this topic has been discussed a million times. You're probably right to the extent that I'm just prejudiced. My position isn't particularly sophisticated or insightful, I guess I'll be voting for Screamadelica.

Pete Shelley: "I never would have played guitar if not for Marc Bolan and Michael Karoli of Can".

In Rainbows is the worst sequenced album in RH's entire bunch!

― They have fangs, They have teeth! (White Chocolate Cheesecake), Monday, May 14, 2012 6:14 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I couldn't agree with this. I'd say Pablo Honey was the one where they really dropped the ball on the track order.

OK Computer and In Rainbows are perfectly sequenced I think. Kid A and Amnesiac not so much.

― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Monday, May 14, 2012 5:48 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The second half of Kid A (from 'Optimistic' to 'Motion Picture Soundtrack') is impeccably sequenced, it feels continuous and has such a momentum to it. As for the first half, I've never been taken with the positioning of the title track as the 2nd track, but looking at the songs that they had at the time, I'm struggling to think of where else they could have put it.

tru confessions: I was an insufferable 14 y/o 12-CD owning radiohead fanboy ca. kid a. I was absolutely infatuated w them after eating a steady diet of classic rock and metallica and nirvana. they were my gateway into electronic music generally, and specifically krautrock/aphex twin/etc later. whoever said screamadelica was extroverted and kid a was introverted was right. I think that's one of the things that drew me in about it. I listen t kid a "more objectively" now but it has ~personal meaning~ for me.

got into screamadelica years later. love it too. love xtrmntr more tho. feel like "national anthem" and "mbv arkestra (if they move kill em)" are built from similar things (mbv arkestra wins that battle, way more apocalyptic feeling)

screamadelica is fun, kid a isn't. there you go. if it had been screamadelica vs. amesiac it would have been a different story though. amnesiac isn't fun neither, it is stronger than fun, it is scaring.

I'm with MikoMcha all the way here. And yes I hear a clear IDM influence (though perhaps not a wholesale ripping-off of any one artist's steez) running all the way through it. I've changed my mind in more recent times as to whether that's a bad or good thing.

I've decided I prefer Radiohead as a band, Kid A as an album, but the opening verses to Higher Than The Sun do something to me that very little music can.

screamadelica is fun, kid a isn't.

this also resolves the timeless "john coltrane vs the wiggles" debate

i can't believe it but i'm actually voting for Screamadelica. must be that acid trip at Joshua Tree.

wiggles aren't fun but they're stronger than fun, they're scaring.