Producers, Recording Engineers and Studio Wizards: POLL RESULTS

Thanks for a fun poll, Shakey. Had a higher number of "no way, TOO LOW" moments than usual. Here's my ballot --

1. Lee Perry
2. Brian Eno
3. Teo Macero
4. Tom Dowd
5. Rudy Van Gelder
6. Les Paul
7. Geoff Emerick
8. Frank Zappa
9. David Axelrod
10. Gary Kellgren
11. Leslie Kong
12. Thom Bell
13. Phil Spector
14. The Bomb Squad
15. George Martin
16. Owen Bradley
17. Steve Albini
18. Brian Wilson
19. Chris Thomas
20. Conny Plank

Great poll, Shakey.

My ballot:

1. Glyn Johns
2. The Bomb Squad
3. Teo Macero
4. Phil Spector
5. Lee "Scratch" Perry
6. Prince Paul
7. Rudy Van Gelder
8. Holland/Dozier/Holland
9. Geoff Emerick
10. Norman Whitfield
11. Tom Wilson
12. Jimmy Page
13. King Tubby
14. Jimmy Miller
15. Chris Thomas
16. Isaac Hayes/David Porter
17. Shel Talmy
18. Steve Albini
19. George Martin
20. Giovanni Bonadrini

The only ones of mine that I'm bummed missed the top 50 are Hayes/Porter.

I can't talk too much b/c I did mot vote in this, but kinda bummed that Alan Moulder didn't make the cut

>

unlike a lot (all?) of the other douchebags on here, Phil never made a bad-sounding record

Paul McC would beg to differ, but I'll defend even his still-controversal alterations to Let It Be. Your comment upthread that "Rudy Van Gelder's style of production was relatively unobtrusive - the idea was just to capture the live performance as well as possible, so it becomes all about clarity: mic placement, room dynamics, etc." made me immediately think of Phil Spector. That was how everyone used to make records. Phil Spector changed that, and destroyed the notion that a studio was only for getting a clean recording of a live performance onto tape. Instead, he ushered in the idea of records as a separate artform from live performance. Suddenly, any sounds you could create, by any means, were encouraged, even if they required added effects that couldn't be replicated live. Added reverberation, double-tracked vocals, slowing or speeding up the tape, or layering all manner of instruments were often considered fakery before Spector arrived on the scene, but he turned them into a part of the producer's art.

George Martin, Brian Wilson, and the wizards at Motown quickly picked up on his ideas and built upon them. Most of us know the story of how the Beatles were turned down by Decca after they were auditioned in 1962, but doesn't it seem quaint in 2011 that a record company would decide who to sign based only on how they sound live? It is unimaginable today that most popular music acts would be able to play something live that sounds just like a modern pop record. But it was equally unimaginable even in 1966 that a live rock band would be able to recreate the sounds on their records, at least if those records were Revolver or Pet Sounds. But just four years earlier, bands weren't allowed that freedom, which is why Decca thought the best way to determine what Beatles records might sound like was to hear them play live, which unfortunately for Decca meant what they heard on that fateful day wouldn't be able to sound anywhere near as good as most of the Beatles records we know and love.

The sea change in attitude occurred during that very short timeframe, because Phil Spector showed with his "wall of sound" records what was possible when the studio became an instrument, and opened the floodgates for bands and the their producers to explore that newfound creativity. Which makes him the most significant record producer ever. Not the best IMO (he was near the middle of my ballot), but still the most significant.

fun poll! will have to catch up on the rollout since i just showed up and saw the results, but here's my ballot:

Jimmy Page
Timbaland
Brian Eno
Prince
Willie Mitchell
DJ Premier
Gary Katz
Jam/Lewis
Trent Reznor
Dr. Luke
R. Kelly
DJ Quik
Don Fleming
Eddie Kramer
Mitchell Froom
Mannie Fresh
Nile Rodgers/Bernard Edwards
Jon Brion
Steve Albini
Andy Johns

My admittedly rockist ballot:

1 Brian Wilson
2. George Martin
3. Tom Dowd
4. Joe Boyd
5. Andy Wallace
6. Terry Melcher
7. Eddie Kramer
8. Glyn Johns
9. Andy Johns
10. Smokey Robinson
11. Rick Jarrard
12. Phil Spector
13. Tom Wilson
14. Les Paul
15. Smokey Robinson
16. Shel Talmy
17. Todd Rundgren
18. David Briggs
19. Norman Smith
20. Norman Whitfield

My most difficult pick was Terry Melcher, who I placed high largely on the strength of his production on the seminal early Byrds records, whose chimelike sound reverberates through folk-rock, power-pop, and alt-rock to this day. But many of his later productions (including a late-period Byrds album) totally sucked.

Still kicking myself for not placing a vote for Erik Jacobsen or Elliot Mazer, both of whom remain criminally underappreciated.

oops, #15 was Babyface; Smokey only gets one vote like everyone else....

didn't vote because a) i missed it and b) i'm not really qualified to comment

in theory i guess i would have had willie mitchell, holland/dozier/holland and especially RVG higher?

v. interesting poll! thanks shakey

So w respect to Shakey Mo, who did yeoman's work w this, this poll was disappointing to me -- and I think most of it just comes down to there being too few ballots. Admittedly, I had a hard time with this and ended up submitting a ballot with less than twenty votes because as many records as I love by Chris Thomas, I'm not about to hail him as some kind of genius.

But for me it wasn't the "too low" moments -- it was the "wait, this dude? all the way up here?" moments and placings of guys (ie, Clinton, who I love, mind) who aren't really producers. For me, these polls shouldn't be about debating the qualifications of these dudes but their merits. So, a bit of a bummer.

yeah well I dunno what I could've done to get more ballots in - I tried to keep the nominations thread on the front page for a couple weeks. in the end we got 39 (including mine) which is slightly above average for polls

honestly don't know why you wouldn't consider Clinton a producer. he was behind the mixing desk on a lot of records.

yeah 40ish is a great total, i duno if the result would have looked much different if there were 80 voters

xp Among many, many other things, it was Clinton who transformed "Maggot Brain" from a guitar solo into a piece for solo guitar.

Any comments on Thom Bell's placement versus Gamble and Huff's non-placement?

Gamble & Huff got a couple votes, they were just outside the top 50

Well, again -- this isn't a criticism of you, Shakey. More a frustration and maybe a realization that there are fewer producers I really admire than I thought.

I think part of it is that I tend to subscribe to the producer-as-auteur theory -- folks with unique visions (and in that sense, Clinton would have counted obviously). But even there, I felt like great auteurs need to have registered some kind of larger, meaningful impact -- so a guy like Mutt Lange (whose music I largely detest) would at least qualify while someone like Manfred Eicher--who pioneered a gorgeous sound at ECM--wouldn't because I'm not really convinced changing the face of European jazz is all that big of a deal.

There's also a matter of intent. Despite worshipping his stuff w Miles, I didn't even vote for Teo Macero bc even tho he did some wild things with fx and tapes on those late-60s/70s records (panning switchboxes, putting melodies over different backing tracks, etc.), I've never been totally convinced he knew what he was doing with those things and that his far more important impact was providing shape and form to those pieces (forget "In a Silent Way"'s A-B-A edit; check Bob Belden's notes on the assembly of "Pharaoh's Dance" for evidence of how he would seamlessly loop two improvised bars in the middle of a 19 minute piece to add tension -- one or two got left off on the box set by accident). In retrospect, I probably should have voted for him -- but it might have been close. Fun fact: according to Wikipedia, Teo produced "Addicted to Love" by Robert Palmer!

Also, I've never felt that being associated with a lot of good records in and of itself makes a great producer. That's why, for me, Trevor Horn or Martin Hannett belong very high in this poll where, say, a Rudy Van Gelder or Chris Thomas might not, despite overseeing more great records.

Bottom line: most of these guys were just very capable craftsmen -- and generally you don't buy records because for their capable craftsmanship. You don't say, "Holy shit, this was produced by CHRIS FUCKING THOMAS. Honey, empty out your wallet -- I simply MUST have it." Unless, say, you're an engineer.

In that sense maybe I was always going to be frustrated by this poll.

Anyway, apologies for the screed. Carry on.

Thanks, SMC. My confused ballot:

1. David Briggs (Neil Young) – 40
2. Tom Wilson (Velvets, Dylan, Simon & Garfunkel, Mothers of Invention, Nico) – 36
3. George Martin (Beatles) – 33
4. Thom Bell (Spinners, Delfonics, Stylistics) – 30
5. Phil Spector (various) – 27
6. Roger Moutenot (Yo La Tengo) – 25
7. Gary Katz (Steely Dan) – 24
8. Burt Bacharach & Hal David (Dionne Warwick, B.J. Thomas) – 23
9. George Shadow Morton (Shangri-Las, New York Dolls) – 22
10. Todd Rundgren (Todd Rundgren, New York Dolls) – 21
11. Brian Wilson (Beach Boys, Spring) – 20
12. Al Schmitt (Jefferson Airplane, Neil Young, Jackson Browne) – 19
13. Rod Stewart (Rod Stewart, Faces) – 18
14. Joe Boyd (Incredible String Band, Fairport Convention, R.E.M.) – 17
15. Sly Stone (Sly & the Family Stone, Great Society, Beau Brummels) – 16
16. Mike Thorne (Wire) – 15
17. Dr. Dre (Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, 50 Cent) – 14
18. Norman Petty (Buddy Holly) – 13
19. Timbaland (Missy Elliott, Aaliyah, Timbaland & Magoo) – 12
20. Stephen Hague (Pet Shop Boys, New Order) – 11

I guess I'm one of the people who artificially propped up the likes of David Briggs and Gary Katz. I have no idea what either one ever contributed to the art of record production, if anything; I just happen to love Neil Young and Steely Dan. Gamble & Huff slipped my mind--I would have voted for them somewhere in there.

i needed sleep so had to skip out on the final rundown.

best man got the top spot.

my ballot

1. David Axelrod
2. Adrian Sherwood
3. Tony Visconti
4. Trevor Horn
5. Phil Spector
6. Brian Eno
7. Teo Macero
8. Lee Scratch Perry
9. Rudy Van Gelder
10. Giorgio Moroder
11. Willie Mitchell
12. Thomas Dolby
13. Martin Rushent
14. Stuart Price
15. Clive Langer and Alan Winstanley
16. John Leckie
17. Xenomania
18. Rick Rubin
19. Bomb Squad
20. Roy Thomas Baker

1. DJ Premier
2. RZA
3. Pete Rock
4. Just Blaze
5. The Bomb Squad
6. Easy Mo Bee
7. DJ Quik
8. Dr Dre
9. Timbaland
10. Neptunes
11. Diamond D
12. Jay Dilla
13. Madlib
14. Prince Paul
15. DJ Toomp
16. Large Professor
17. Swizz Beatz
18. ?uestlove
19. E-Swift
20. Psycho Les

oh, and thanks to shakey for the time-n-effort !

1. The Chic Organisation/Nile Rogers
2. Brian Eno
3. George Martin
4. Kate Bush
5. Trevor Horn
6. Phil Spector
7. Tony Visconti
8. Lindsey Buckingham
9. Chris Blackwell
10. Daft Punk
11. Dallas Austin
12. Harvey Fuqua
13.Chris Thomas
14. Andy Johns
15. Timbaland
16. The Dust Brothers
17. John Leckie
18. Arthur Baker
19. The Neptunes
20. Jimmy Miller

I hadn't expected you to go all the way to #1, Shakey, or I'd've hung around a bit longer last night. Anyway great idea, I've learned quite a lot, and thanks a bunch for doing it.

xp I don't see how this can be disappointing if you can't get to 20 yourself. I thought it was great. I mean, who are the raft of innovators who are missing out? Also, craftsmen totally belong - there are enough flat and muddy rock records around to see that Chris Thomas brings a lot to his.

Here's my ballot, bolded the ones that made it to the top 50:

1. Patrick Cowley
2. Larry Levan
3. Boris Blank
4. Juan Atkins
5. Shep Pettibone
6. Pole (aka Stefan Betke)
7. Arthur Baker
8. Giorgio Moroder
9. Meshell Ndegeocello
10. Carl Craig
11. Burnt Friedman
12. Roopek (aka Roope Kinnunen)
13. Marley Marl
14. Teo Macero
15. Prince
16. Creed Taylor
17. Swizz Beatz
18. Ben Liebrand
19. Da Beatminerz
20. 4 Hero

I voted solely based on personal taste, not historical importance... So I didn't include people like Spector, as I haven't heard that many of his productions, and on the ones I've heard, the sound hasn't really impressed me that much.

Was surprised that none of the OG disco producers/remixers (Levan, Moulton, Cowley, etc) made it to the top 50. What they did to recorded sound was just as revolutionary as what Spector, Tubby, Macero et al did. Okay, Moroder made it to the top 10, which is great, but his thing (minimizing dance music to a synth groove) was bit different from what Levan & Moulton & co did. They basically (alongside Jamaican dubsters, of course) invented the remix.

Another surprise was that Arthur Baker didn't make it! I thought producing "Planet Rock" alone (not to mention his other electro productions and remixes) would've guaranteed him a spot. As for 80s synth pop, I find it sad Boris Blanks isn't regarded as high as he should be. Stuff he did 25-30 years ago still sounds mad innovative today, and less dated than Trevor Horn's (who I also love) production. I guess the problem is that Blank never did much work outside Yello, and Yello was always too eccentric to make a big breakthrough.

unlike a lot (all?) of the other douchebags on here, Phil never made a bad-sounding record

Even Paul said his "Let it be" did not sound "bad", but he did hate the end product for the production 'result'...

My ballot:

1 Joe Meek
2 Lee Perry
3 Martin Hannett
4 Brian Eno
5 Steve Albini
6 Shadow Morton
7 Willie Mitchell
8 Kevin Shields
9 Chris Thomas
10 John Cale
11 Timbaland
12 Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards
13 Trevor Horn
14 Phil Spector
15 Sam Phillips
16 Dave Fridmann
17 Xenomania
18 Conny Plank
19 Dr Dre
20 Brian Wilson

My ballot:

1. Chic Organization
2. George Martin
3. Trevor Horn
4. Brian Eno
5. Joe Meek
6. Tony Visconti
7. Phil Spector
8. Timbaland
9. Giorgio Moroder
10. Lee 'Scratch' Perry
11. Martin Rushent
12. Martin Hannett
13. Chips Moman
14. Gamble and Huff
15. Chris Thomas
16. Rick Rubin
17. Arif Mardin
18. Bomb Squad
19. Vince Clarke
20. Sly and Robbie

Don't know how I managed to forget the RZA, should have squeezed him in somewhere. Still shaking my head at the dismissal of 'Slave to the Rythm', the pinnacle of Horn's fairlight era imo.

My ballot, slightly thrown together, and there are names I would perhaps include as a result of the rundown:

1. King Tubby
2. Martin Hannett
3. Arthur Baker
4. RZA
5. George Martin
6. Steve Albini
7. Dr Dre
8. Joe Meek
9. Rick Rubin
10. Phil Spector
11. Conny Plank
12. Lee Perry
13. Juan Atkins
14. Richard D. James
15. Brian Eno
16. Tony Visconti
17. Derrick May
18. Pete Rock
19. Bomb Squad
20. Quincy Jones

Has anybody lobbied for Mike Chapman?

I don't think I did, but I considered him for Rapture. That 'bell' sound is one of my favourite production tricks (see also Ain't No Mountain High Enough, Tears Dry On Their Own). What is it? A really loud xylophone?

I asked this just before the outage, was hoping for an explanation because I love those intros. I suspect it might be a 'rounded' Rhodes piano sound?

http://www.gipercussion.co.uk/Premier%20bells.jpg

miserable auteur in Archway

Oi! (Mid) Holloway Road! Fuck yer Archways!

Didn't vote in this, wish I had now. Perry vs. Plank for me... off the top of my head, it'd probably change if I thought more about it.

Actually Holger Czukay might have been my No. 1. Or Pierre Schaeffer.

oh shit how did i forget arthur baker?

Don Was

Producer credits: the B-52's, Iggy Pop, Paul Westerberg, Bonnie Raitt, Jackson Browne, Bob Dylan, Roy Orbison, Ziggy Marley, Brian Wilson, Ringo Starr, David Crosby, the Rolling Stones, Bob Seger, Garth Brooks, Lyle Lovett, Kris Kristofferson, Willie Nelson, Michelle Shocked, Lucinda Williams, others

Impressive CV for someone who seems not to have received even one vote!

roy thomas baker in only one ballot & no jon landau is kinda surprising

or bob thiele or george avakian

curtis mayfield, isaac hayes, I think those guys have legit claims to top 20 production styles

I didn't vote in this (I never do!), but these popular people would have got my votes if I had:

Steve Albini
George Martin
Brian Eno
Quincy Jones
Holger Czukay
Kate Bush
Timbaland
The Neptunes

I was surprised to see none of these mentioned at all:

Jim O’Rourke
James Murphy
Andrew Weatherall
Chas Chandler
Flood
Curtis Mayfield
Fela Kuti
John McIntyre

And I probably would have voted, or seriously considered voting for, several of these:

Mark Hollis / Tim Friese-Green / Phill Brown
Graham Sutton
Phil and Paul Hartnoll / Dan Snaith / Kieran Hebden / other electronic dudes who’ve never really produced anyone else
Ethan Johns
Jamie Watson (Long Fin Killie)
Brian Deck (Califone)
Guy Stevens

thanks for this Shakey. couldn't bring myself to vote, sorry - I'm sure I could name 20 favourite producers/engineers but ranking them is another story.

nonetheless really enjoyed the rundown. tie between Premier and Visconti the highlight for reasons I can't quite verbalise

complete absence of women from the list is pretty mad, not gonna blame the voters for that one tho

if you squint a bit, Eno at least looks like a woman in that pic

complete absence of women from the list is pretty mad, not gonna blame the voters for that one tho

yeah - this is a "man's world" type of profession, for the most part, and the deeply entrenched sexism of the industry has kept it that way for decades

I mean apart from Kate Bush (who received a couple votes) and Joan Jett I"m at a loss for big names

roy thomas baker in only one ballot & no jon landau is kinda surprising

or bob thiele or george avakian

Roy Thomas Baker was on 2 ballots. those other guys didn't get any votes.

suppose things might have been different if you had voted tho lol

Impressive CV for someone who seems not to have received even one vote!

all those people are great/have done great things, but none of those great things involved Don Was. I guess Cosmic Thing sounds pretty good...

my kinda strange, highly subjective ballot was:

Timbaland
The DFA (was I really the only one?)
The Neptunes
Yasutaka Nakata
Steve Albini
Noon
Jimmy Page
Maciej Cieślak
Daft Punk
Bloodshy & Avant
Autechre
Greg Kurstin
Dave Fridmann
Phil Spector
Phil Ek
Danja
Max Martin
Dr Luke
Todd Edwards
Don Zientara

I purposely tossed the historical importance to hell in favour of choosing at-the-moment personal favs.

Arthur Baker got 3 votes, 70 points

xp

>> Impressive CV for someone who seems not to have received even one vote!

> all those people are great/have done great things, but none of those great things involved Don Was. I guess Cosmic Thing sounds pretty good...

I was aware of that (of course!).... it looks far more impressive than it is, because everyone on that list was long past their prime (save for the B-52's and Bonnie Raitt), which is no doubt why he was ignored here. He's also another of those producers that intentionally stays out of the way and just records what the band plays, kind of like Albini except that he won't throw a fit if you call him a producer. But not having a signature production sound like that of, say, Trevor Horn makes it even easier to forget he's there at all.

suppose things might have been different if you had voted tho lol

I know, I like discussing these stuff but putting a ballot together is the sort of thing that's like I'm not against doing it but it would take me a couple years and if I threw one together just to be in the poll well that'd be exactly what I never liked about polls but that's not on the poll that's just me

so for you, participating in a poll is like voting for a Democrat

yes