1. "Flamboyant"2. "The Samurai in Autumn"3. "What Have I Done to Deserve This?"4. "West End Girls"5. "It's Alright"6. "A Different Point of View"7. "Nothing Has Been Proved" (Dusty Springfield)8. "Left to My Own Devices"9. "Always on My Mind"10. "Where the Streets Have No Name (I Can't Take My Eyes Off of You)"11. "Being Boring"12. "Later Tonight"
Made my list quickly, no re-listening, stopped at a point where I'd start to list songs that I think are just pretty good.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 6 July 2011 22:24 (twelve years ago) link
1) Being Boring
2) I Wouldn’t Normally Do This Kind Of Thing
3) Rent
4) Dreaming Of The Queen
5) The Survivors
6) The Way It Used To Be
7) Miracles
8) Nervously
9) Always On My Mind
10) Discoteca
11) Do I Have To
12) Liberation
13) We're The Pet Shop Boys
14) Your Funny Uncle
15) Shameless
16) Fugitive (Richard X Extended Mix)
17) One In A Million
18) Opportunities
19) Decadence
20) Hit And Miss
― LeRooLeRoo, Wednesday, 6 July 2011 22:49 (twelve years ago) link
Happy to see another "The Samurai in Autumn" up there!
1. King's Cross2. What Have I Done to Deserve This?3. Always on my Mind4. Integral5. Rent6. Being Boring7. Legacy8. Se A Vida É (That's the Way Life Is)9. I Don't Know What You Want But I Can't Give it Anymore10. Viva la Vida / Domino Dancing11. Flamboyant12. It's a Sin13. Suburbia14. The Samurai in Autumn15. Can You Forgive Her?16. West End Girls17. I Get Along18. Jealousy19. A Red Letter Day20. You Only Tell Me You Love Me When You're Drunk
― if, Wednesday, 6 July 2011 22:52 (twelve years ago) link
My list - 16/20
1. Rent2. Always on My Mind3. Left to My Own Devices4. It’s a Sin5. Being Boring6. King’s Cross7. Do I Have To?8. What Have I Done to Deserve This?9. In the Night10. Dreaming of the Queen11. Paninaro12. So Hard13. This Must Be the Place I Waited Years to Leave14. West End Girls15. Your Funny Uncle16. Two Divided By Zero17. I Get Along18. You Only Tell Me You Love Me When You’re Drunk19. Was That What It Was?20. Later Tonight
― Strictly vote-splitting (DL), Wednesday, 6 July 2011 22:52 (twelve years ago) link
Thanks Billy. Very enjoyable.
― Strictly vote-splitting (DL), Wednesday, 6 July 2011 22:53 (twelve years ago) link
sad Miracles didn't make it :-(
― I'm A Genius, Too! (Jamie_ATP), Wednesday, 6 July 2011 22:57 (twelve years ago) link
Huh?! Missed the final part of the countdown.... "What Have I..."? Really?! o_O
Anyway, great work Billy!
My ballot:
1. Being Boring2. My October Symphony3. Love Comes Quickly4. King's Cross5. I Want To Wake Up6. Paninaro7. Rent8. Domino Dancing9. Left To My Own Devices10. Only The Wind11. To Face The Truth12. Suburbia13. Nervously14. This Must Be The Place I Waited Years To Leave15. Jealousy16. What Have I Done To Deserve This?17. It Couldn't Happen Here18. It's A Sin19. The Theatre20. I Wouldn't Normally Do This Kind Of Thing
― Asamoah Nyan (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 6 July 2011 23:03 (twelve years ago) link
There are only one or two placing songs I wouldn't want to hear right now, and at least a dozen or more I love equally. Man, these guys. You guys.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 7 July 2011 00:39 (twelve years ago) link
Oh, so glad WHIDTDT? won - as Tom said years ago on ILx, successful incorporation of divas into the PSB sound. Pristine designer regret and the possibility of glorious redemption. Hook after hook after hook. Tennant’s “at night the people…” verse is sublime. Best duet EVER MADE!.
Surprised Heart placed so low - I find it, er, classic/uncluttered rather than lightweight.
01. What Have I Done To Deserve This?02. Heart03. Bet She's Not Your Girlfriend04. Some Speculation05. Left To My Own Devices06. Try It (I'm In Love With A Married Man)07. Domino Dancing08. One Of The Crowd09. Rent10. The Sound Of The Atom Splitting11. Love Comes Quickly12. I Want A Dog [/Alternative/ version]13. I Get Excited (You Get Excited Too)14. We're The Pet Shop Boys15. A New Life16. Jack The Lad17. One More Chance [1984/Bobby 'O' version]18. You Know Where You Went Wrong19. Dry Heroin [Bumtschak bootleg, Superpitcher vs Pet Shop Boys]20. Party Song
I was one of three people to vote for Jack The Lad, We're The Pet Shop Boys, and Bet She's Not Your Girlfriend; one of two people to vote for Party Song, You Know Where You Went Wrong, A New Life, I Get Excited (You Get Excited Too), The Sound Of The Atom Splitting, and One Of The Crowd, and the only vote for Dry Heroin (which didn't get folded within the Home & Dry votes).
Was hoping Bet She's Not Your Girlfriend would place - was my #1 until the last minute, one of Neil's most acrobatic vocal performances (the way the lyrics scan!), and a successful mesh of house and hi-NRG tropes in the production - those strings, and what sounds like Chris through a vocoder!
― etc, Thursday, 7 July 2011 00:49 (twelve years ago) link
A question for all you guys who bought their singles and albums in their heyday: did you flip those singles over and say, for example, "Wow! 'I Get Excited (You Get Excited Too)' is a marvelous tune!" or did it take Alternative and the reissues to notice?
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 July 2011 00:51 (twelve years ago) link
This thread is quickly becoming "people who read pitchfork are dumb"
A question for all you guys who bought their singles and albums in their heyday: did you flip those singles over and say, for example, "Wow! 'I Get Excited (You Get Excited Too)' is a marvelous tune!" or did it take /Alternative/ and the reissues to notice?
I loved "A Man Could Get Arrested", "Jack The Lad", "You Know Where You Went Wrong", "I Want A Dog", "We All Feel Better In The Dark", "It Must Be Obvious" and "Bet She's Not Your Girlfriend" when I heard them on the singles. Alternative just reaffirmed what I suspected; PSB B-sides pwn.
― DJP, Thursday, 7 July 2011 01:22 (twelve years ago) link
do you mean this thread is a rebuke to Pitchfork?
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 July 2011 01:30 (twelve years ago) link
It makes a big difference, I imagine, to hear all those b-sides in the context of "Alternative" at once, rather than scattered across various formats. That came out in, what, 95? Back then it took some doing to compile your own comprehensive collections. In the pre-downloading era, I think the impact of "Alternative" was more ... impactful? I readily admit that until the comp I had little to know idea about ANY of the PSB b-sides!
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 7 July 2011 01:41 (twelve years ago) link
Ha, little to no.
Little to Know would make a great album title.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 7 July 2011 01:42 (twelve years ago) link
Just been catching on up on the final results, it made such an exciting read. Thanks so much for doing this Billy.
A bit gutted that four of my votes were in the 50-60 part of the list. I voted for A Different Point Of view (51) The Way It Used To Be (52) Dreaming Of The Queen (56) Yesterday When I Was Mad (57) Still it was a great list overall.
― Kitchen Person, Thursday, 7 July 2011 02:46 (twelve years ago) link
For anyone not bored with this sort of thing, I wrote blurbs for my picks.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 July 2011 03:01 (twelve years ago) link
I heard selected 80s b-sides at the time but, having been in possession of only a few of the singles, and having failed to keep a tape dub of the B-sides of a friend's copies of others, there are several even from that era that I've only heard a few times ("Do I Have To?", "You Know Where You Went Wrong"). I was distracted by Sebadoh or something when Alternative was finally released, such that I only bought my first (dirt cheap) copy just this week, for the convenience.
At the very least I think it's unlikely I would have given 36 points to "A Man Could Get Arrested" if I hadn't listened to both sides of the "WEG" single a zillion times as a pre-pubescent circa 1986. I mean, is it that good? I can't be even vaguely objective.
― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Thursday, 7 July 2011 03:08 (twelve years ago) link
Didn't do homework, so stopped at 10:
If it's not too late. -Eazy
1. Go West2. Try It (I'm in Love with a Married Man)3. Positive Role Model4. Two Divided by Zero5. London6. Rent7. Love Etc.8. Party Song9. Love Comes Quickly10. Home and Dry
― Lazy Lay (Eazy), Thursday, 7 July 2011 03:23 (twelve years ago) link
(Oops-"If it's not too late" was part of my e-mail.)
― Lazy Lay (Eazy), Thursday, 7 July 2011 03:24 (twelve years ago) link
Alfred, I had no idea it was you that wrote that Stylus write-up of "Young Offender". It's one of my favourite PSB write-ups.
― Gukbe, Thursday, 7 July 2011 04:06 (twelve years ago) link
My top 20,. My biggest disappointment, that I was the only one to vote for 'Nothing Has Been Proved' which I think's a highlight of both artists careers.
Incidentally has anyone seen 'It Couldn't Happen Here'? It looks like a rum piece of work. I remember it getting slammed at the time as indulgent and pretentious, but the clips I've seen have wetted my appetite.
Young OffenderYou Only Tell Me You Love Me When You're DrunkWhat Have I Done to Deserve This?Love Comes QuicklySo HardWest End GirlsNothing Has Been Proved (Dusty Springfield)I'm Not Scared (Eighth Wonder)SuburbiaThe Crying Game (Boy George)Always On My MindOne In A MillionSe A Vida ETry It (I'm In Love With A Married Man)It's A SinLove EtcThis Must Be The Place I Waited Years to LeaveWe All Feel Better In The DarkLove is Everywhere (Cicero)Your Funny Uncle
― The multi-talented F.R. David (Billy Dods), Thursday, 7 July 2011 07:39 (twelve years ago) link
Yep, saw it in the cinema. It is rum and pretentious and indulgent, and fun.
I was tempted to vote "Casanova in Hell" for the Rufus Wainwright version, but I don't guess that would have gathered much steam.
Rufus version >>> Tennant version IMO. Concrete is pretty fantastic overall.
I wonder why wasn't King's Cross a single? Or anything else on Actually. After a no. 1 it's pretty much a no brainer to release another single from the album. It had already been a backwards step to release another [fourth!] single off the album after a stand-alone single; presumably Heart was delayed due to the unplannedness of the Always single after the TV cover version. Since Introspective was probably close to finished around then, they could have been wearing on peoples’ familiarity by releasing a FIFTH old song as a single when they had two magnificent new ones to get out before the end of the year, PLUS a feature film spun off from the old album to get into cinemas as well!
The remixed live version on the last tour was astounding.
All the live arrangements from the Pandaemonium/Glasto sets were done with or by Jacques Lu Cont iirc?
"In My House" isn't really a song, is it? I would've just counted it as a remix. It doesn't make a big difference anyway.
It’s as much of a song as Music For Boys, or We All Feel Better In The Dark, and more of one than anything on Relentless
Wow. Totally thought "The Night I Fell in Love" or "Dreaming of the Queen" would place high. What are y'all's stance on those?
I wish The Night I Fell In Love was any good, but it’s clunky and hamfisted in so very many ways. Dreaming Of The Queen worked great pacing-wise on the Cubism tour (at full shows) as a gather your breath / go to the bar song, and also became the first time I’d ever paid any attention to it at all.
Idly thinking of a best-covers-of-the-PSB poll – do people have any favourites others of us might not be familiar with? (or particular favourites from Results or the WEG catalogue)eg
Carter USM – RentMerril Bainbridge – Being BoringRobbie Williams – I Wouldn’t Normally Do This Kind Of ThingSplendid – You Only Tell Me You Love Me When You’re Drunk(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axym3dOvCY4 )
― undeɹrated ærosm?th b∞tlegs I have pwned (sic), Thursday, 7 July 2011 07:56 (twelve years ago) link
For info, I've left the spreadsheet public but have anonymised the names.
― The multi-talented F.R. David (Billy Dods), Thursday, 7 July 2011 09:22 (twelve years ago) link
Being BoringAlways On My MindLeft To My Own DevicesWhat Have I Done To Deserve This?Go WestHome And DrySe A Vida E (That's The Way Life Is)* Too Many PeopleSo HardRentCan You Forgive Her?Losing My Mind (Liza Minnelli)A Red Letter DayI Wouldn't Normally Do This Kind Of ThingHeartLove EtcWhere The Streets Have No Name* Love Is Everywhere (Cicero)* In Private (Dusty Springfield)The Truck Driver And His Mate
* = didn't place in the 50
― mike t-diva, Thursday, 7 July 2011 09:35 (twelve years ago) link
Billy: I voted for "Nothing Has Been Proved" too. Almost voted for it twice--I love the Strings of Love version even more than Dusty's, but I wasn't sure if Tenant/Lowe had anything to do with it beyond writing the song, so I skipped it. I was surprised it didn't make the Top 50 too.
― clemenza, Thursday, 7 July 2011 09:37 (twelve years ago) link
xp I bought every single on seven and twelve from Please through Behaviour so every song on that first disc of Alternative means something to me, to the point where I can't really be objective about them. I remember trying to transcribe and decipher the lyrics to Don Juan. With Very they stopped doing vinyl singles so I drifted away from the B-sides. Even though many of the later ones are utterly fantastic, I discovered them en masse on Alternative so I didn't devote as much time to them.
― Strictly vote-splitting (DL), Thursday, 7 July 2011 09:40 (twelve years ago) link
In case anyone hasn't heard this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zErjqOlHWqU&feature=related
There's a longer and better version on the 12-inch. Being right from the Black Box moment, I have to wonder if the gorgeous woman in the video is even doing the singing.
― clemenza, Thursday, 7 July 2011 09:47 (twelve years ago) link
Billy: I voted for "Nothing Has Been Proved" too.
Yes, you did, my mistake. Don't worry, it was counted.
― The multi-talented F.R. David (Billy Dods), Thursday, 7 July 2011 10:03 (twelve years ago) link
Loses a little something of the Profumo story, that version
― Strictly vote-splitting (DL), Thursday, 7 July 2011 10:08 (twelve years ago) link
aww thanks!
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 July 2011 11:06 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, that was a great piece. I am curious about something, though. I grew up listening to the Pet Shop Boys without ever thinking of them as gay. Not as straight, either - for some reason, sexuality never came into my appreciation of them (or at least I was too unsophisticated to recognize it). But when "Very" came out, I was suddenly very aware of the band's sexuality, as well as the album's place in the AIDS/post-AIDS era. It was like a little light bulb that went off that cast all their previous material in a different, more illuminating light. Sort of the same thing with the Magnetic Fields' "Holiday," which I believe came out the same year.
Anyway, for those of you back in the '80s who understand what being gay was (or were gay yourselves), how did that affect your appreciation of the Pet Shop Boys? Did they seem more daring? Subversive? Like a well-kept secret that went deeper than strictly great pop? Or as strictly great pop, with the layers of politics and sexuality only revealing themselves later?
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 7 July 2011 12:00 (twelve years ago) link
When I bought Behaviour in early '91, there was already a lot of snickering from friends about their sexuality; it wasn't lost on anyone that "Getting Away With It" was a duet between two men. As a sixteen-year-old closeted teenager, I didn't know the language of homosexuality yet, but I sensed the oddness of the point of view in "The End of the World" (its detachment) and "Being Boring" (subject and object blur).
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 July 2011 13:13 (twelve years ago) link
as a pre-pubescent, I felt cheated when I clocked that NT's lyrics were dancing around gender so pointedly. be bold! why hide! I thought. your songs are so wonderful, they must be universally respected and beloved - to engage gendered pronouns would rip scales from eyes, and show the ludicrousity of homophobically languaged abuse to thousands, I thought.
later, I couldn't remember the one "she" or "her" that had tipped me towards briefly reading their songs in a heteronormative context, and became aware of how little dancing there actually was, if you didn't approach the songs in a standard pop context, and that bullies were irrational and fuckwits anyway.
― undeɹrated ærosm?th b∞tlegs I have pwned (sic), Thursday, 7 July 2011 14:35 (twelve years ago) link
by the time Tennant did the ...Advocate? interview in ...1993? it seemed ludicrous to me that anyone could possibly need or want clarification about 'their' sexuality. I became aware that it wasn't, though.
― undeɹrated ærosm?th b∞tlegs I have pwned (sic), Thursday, 7 July 2011 14:38 (twelve years ago) link
['their' as in the entity Pet Shop Boys, that makes the music of the Pet Shop Boys; expressed such to acknowledge Mr Lowe's disinterest in identifying sexually under anyone else's terms.]
― undeɹrated ærosm?th b∞tlegs I have pwned (sic), Thursday, 7 July 2011 14:40 (twelve years ago) link
TBH, as a straight fan, I never thought about their sexual orientation or whether it even mattered to how I listened to the songs until they released "Go West", which I didn't like to the point of actively avoiding everything associated with Very (which was really, really easy to do in the US) and incorrectly assuming for a while that they lost a good chunk of their cleverness when they officially outed themselves, that the allusions and restrictions they imposed upon themselves were the extra parameter that elevated them from pedestrian to essential.
A year later, a friend played me Disco 2 and I realized I was being a douchebag.
― DJP, Thursday, 7 July 2011 14:46 (twelve years ago) link
Chris Lowe has never made any statements, by the way.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 July 2011 14:49 (twelve years ago) link
Somewhere in a shoe box in the basement, I've got an interview I did with Tennant and Lowe in '88. It was slated for the next issue of the magazine I worked for at the time, which promptly went bankrupt before it ever went to print. I've been telling myself the past few years to sit down and transcribe it and post it on my site, but I'm just too lazy. (It would also be major work to find it; the shoe box is filled with cassettes.) Anyway, I did, circumspectly, bring up the dreaded question, and got an icy stare and evasive answer from Tennant. Big surprise: he handled 97% of the talking during the interview. I've always felt pretty stupid for doing so. As I wrote on my site when I recounted the story a few years ago, it was like asking Stevie Wonder if it was true he was blind.
― clemenza, Thursday, 7 July 2011 14:52 (twelve years ago) link
I distinctly remember when I became aware of their homosexuality: it was in a 1990 review of Behaviour in a local music magazine, which casually described Tennant's new lyrics as those of "a more mature gay man, having come to terms with x and y, in an era of z" or some such thing. It was mentioned in passing in a matter-of-fact fashion, such that I remember thinking I must have been inattentive to have not picked up on this previously. Not sure it felt like anything more than a piece of interesting trivia, as their sexuality was not something I had pondered up to that point either.
I was still relatively young and it may have had more resonance if I was gay myself. I suspect it changed my perceptions of them only insofar as certain lines in "Rent" or "It's A Sin" or "Being Boring" might suddenly have been open to different intepretations. Actually, it may have seemed kind of apt more broadly, as the one other fan I knew, my slightly older neighbour whose PSB 12"s I borrowed, was widely understood to be gay himself.
― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Thursday, 7 July 2011 14:54 (twelve years ago) link
Anyway, I did, circumspectly, bring up the dreaded question, and got an icy stare and evasive answer from Tennant.
I've learned that their policy with most journalists before '93 was to admit Tennant's sexuality off the record.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 July 2011 14:58 (twelve years ago) link
as someone who only discovered the group through Bilingual and Nightlife as an out gay teenager, their evasiveness seems silly and anachronistic. Only a gay man would write and perform the songs they did in the way they did; it takes what feels like an almost willful ignorance to separate their music from their sexuality. Of course times were different back then.
― skip, Thursday, 7 July 2011 15:29 (twelve years ago) link
As a straight kid living with a gay dad (who only did his business outside the house), PSB were about as oblique and transparent as everything else around me. I bought Please when I was 15-16 and loved it; my Dad, mostly a folk and new-age guy, came home one day with the Opportunities 12".
― Lazy Lay (Eazy), Thursday, 7 July 2011 15:42 (twelve years ago) link
xpost It takes what feels like an almost willful ignorance now, but yeah, times are different. If they weren't, they likely would never have had much chart success in the US, I bet. I mean, even Boy George's sexuality was more often than not totally elided back then.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 7 July 2011 15:48 (twelve years ago) link
John Gill's "Queer Noises" has a section on the Pet Shop Boys - I remember thinking at the time that it was well-written and thoughtful but that was a few years ago. IIRC he takes a pretty negative view about their semi-non-closeted status.
― skip, Thursday, 7 July 2011 16:17 (twelve years ago) link
^^^ YES. That was the journalist I was trying to remember. He was very offended.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 July 2011 16:27 (twelve years ago) link
It didn't change my own perception but what I really, really hated after "Very" and Tennant's coming out was that the general public/media perception (at least in North America) immediately went to "lol the gay duo who makes gay music for gay people" and that was pretty much that. So sometimes I wish Tennant hadn't come out, but then it would've probably not make much difference.
― daavid, Thursday, 7 July 2011 16:52 (twelve years ago) link
In America their profile is "lol the gay duo who did 'West End Girls.'"
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 July 2011 16:54 (twelve years ago) link
I recall a friend recounting telling me, "It must be obvious? well it wasn't to me."
― Gukbe, Thursday, 7 July 2011 16:54 (twelve years ago) link
Well I kind of see why it wasn't obvious to everyone. I mean in the eighties everyone looked (and acted) gayer than the PSB.
― daavid, Thursday, 7 July 2011 16:59 (twelve years ago) link