for the piano: Schubert vs. Mozart vs. Chopin

young aerosmith would have voted Chopin so fast it would have hurt his finger, but not so it hurt it bad enough to keep him from punching you in the face if you suggested that you were going to vote for either of the others. but Alicia de la Rocha's Mozart sonatas completely murder me, he sounds so modern & super-intelligent, as literary as musical, kinda, and Schubert...sometimes I think the purpose of being alive is to begin understanding Schubert

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 3 March 2011 14:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

I am still 'young' so I'm going chopin

― Neu! romancer (dayo), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

considering pf repertoire alone, chopin by a fair margin, though in general i'd rather the other two

liszt above the lot tho, and bobby schu 'in with a shout'

― nakhchivan, Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

I feel you dayo and may still vote Chopin, this is a really hard one to vote on for me, but may I strongly suggest you check out Paul Badura-Skoda doing Schubert's sontatas 14 & 20...unfuckingbelievable

lizst will be in a future for the piano poll

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

probably llszt vs. schumann vs. beethoven

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

also it's alicia de larrocha, lest anyone get worried abt any relation

― nakhchivan, Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Chopin for me, too.

― We make bouquets that fade immediately. (Turangalila), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

tbh I may also vote based on who has the most punnable name

― Neu! romancer (dayo), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

mozart was a drag to play back when I played piano, all light & staccato-y and summery, could not roil the dark storms of a 9 year old's soul

― Neu! romancer (dayo), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

mozart's piano concertos are supreme but the sonatas are mostly nice juvenilia and the rest of his solo rep fairly small iirc, with a few nice trinkets like 'ah vous dirais...' variations

― nakhchivan, Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

I kind of don't have any problem with Chopin taking this in a walk but if anybody's been totally floored by Chopin and hasn't had "holy fuck, wait a minute" moments with Mozart sonatas I wanna say fuckin give the dude a hard listen because for me the Mozart I listened to at 16 sounded very different from the one I heard at 30, etc

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mozart is and remains my favourite classical composer, but when it comes to piano music, Schubert was pretty ace as well.
This alone secures the win for Mozart though:

― You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

3rd for the piano poll will be debussy vs. ravel vs. satie and satie will beat debussy and I will go all choogla-choogla eyes with rage like a guy in a warner bros cartoon

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah but geir u admitted u know fuck all about classical music, like only a few classic radio staples and think string quartets are for nerds iirc

― nakhchivan, Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

if debussy beats satie in an ILM poll...

...

― Neu! romancer (dayo), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's no way dayo but debussy's etudes are just the fuckin business, satie can't compete imo

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

Exactly. And I *really* like Satie, too. But yeah.

― We make bouquets that fade immediately. (Turangalila), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

i've never had the chance to hear the mozart sonatas at 30 obv, but i've probably heard each of them a hundred times and i'd be surprised if i eventually decide more than three or four are really amazing

― nakhchivan, Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

wait aerosmith

I meant if satie beats debussy

I fuckin love debussy

― Neu! romancer (dayo), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

I meant, if satie beats debussy in an ILM poll, I am personally driving to ILM's server center with a giant magnet

― Neu! romancer (dayo), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's late, I'm tired

― Neu! romancer (dayo), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

― You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

I had one of those weird personal-moment things with a Mozart piano sonata about ten years ago that changed the way Mozart sounded to me. I know his piano sonatas aren't big ambitious things like the company I put them in, but one morning the clock radio went off and it was some piano music and I'm lying there listening goin', what the fuck, this is amazing, who's this, and I lay there hearing the whole thing through and at the end of it, holy shit, Mozart? for real? no way! and ever since then I always feel like I'm hearing real gleaning of genuinely-modern stuff in Mozart. weird little dart-in-from-the-future things. just me probably but it was like I had suddenly heard a voice in his music that I hadn't noticed before, something very distinct.

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's plenty of play and experiment in the sonatas, 'rondo alla turca' often cited as the first use of ~exotic~ eastern material in the western classical tradition

― nakhchivan, Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Chopin > Mozart > Schubert

― Matt DC, Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

totally voting chopin btw

― odd future wolves GM trade them all (bernard snowy), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

nice try with the "yeah I used to like him but now I'm older and wiser" verbal jujitsu but chopin is for life — u gettin' soft old man

― odd future wolves GM trade them all (bernard snowy), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

(altho "the purpose of life is to begin to understand Schubert" intrigues me, admittedly)

― odd future wolves GM trade them all (bernard snowy), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

nice try with the "yeah I used to like him but now I'm older and wiser" verbal jujitsu but chopin is for life — u gettin' soft old man

― odd future wolves GM trade them all (bernard snowy), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:33 (58 seconds ago)

tbombing with fiyah like osaka 1945

― nakhchivan, Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

wish it wasn't 10:30 am so I could be quaffing bourbon and listening to nocturnes :<

― odd future wolves GM trade them all (bernard snowy), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

someday we'll do a "which classical composer is best to listen to stoned" poll but I'll warn you in advance that Beethoven wins that one too

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

Chopin just makes me want to kill myself, but I'm not familiar enough with Schubert or with Mozart's piano music to cast any vote. So: nothing.

― _Rudipherous_, Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

xxp at some point lurching up from the computer to twirl unsteadily 'round the room with my eyes closed in a look of pure innocent bliss as the camera circles slowly

― odd future wolves GM trade them all (bernard snowy), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

yo aero have you ever listened to the cycle of preludes+fugues Shostakovich did after Bach's WTC? #24 — in d-minor, THE SADDEST OF ALL KEYS — is basically the trippiest piano shit EVAR

― odd future wolves GM trade them all (bernard snowy), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

"fireflies circling and dancing above the corpses lying in a field after an epic battle" is how I described it the first time I heard it

― odd future wolves GM trade them all (bernard snowy), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

have any conspiracy people noticed that Bach was up on the WTC hundreds of years ahead of time

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

actually there was a memorable ILM thread where somebody asked for light dinner party piano music recs and someone mentioned that piece (referring to it as "the WTC") and the thread-starter was like "are you sure? that sounds like it might be too sad/somber for the occasion"

not making this up, it was pretty funny

― odd future wolves GM trade them all (bernard snowy), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

btw here is the shostakovich, played by Keith Jarrett(!) because that is the first one I found on the tubes

― odd future wolves GM trade them all (bernard snowy), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

Voting Schubert, he looks like a friend of mine... or vice versa I suppose. Good music too. Nice sounds.

― Tom D (Tom D.), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

the chillllll sounds of frankie schu

― nakhchivan, Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

hahaha

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

none could get close to the despondency of schubert, and it's not just the bresson connection

― nakhchivan, Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

Schubert for sure. Listen to Piano Sonata in B flat (DV. 960). The stuff he was writing was pretty much unprecedented at the time.

― historyyy (prettylikealaindelon), Thursday, 3 March 2011 16:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

I love me some Mozart but I'll give Fred the piano and Wolfie the strings

― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Thursday, 3 March 2011 16:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

If this is STRICTLY about solo piano, then it's Schubert for me. (The Mozart solo sonatas are a nut I have not yet cracked but I am certain it's still my problem, not his).

But if the brief includes Mozart's piano concertos, then I cannot vote. The Mozart PCs vs. the Schubert sonatas? Best stalemate in the universe.

I actually wrote a bunch about Schubert already in the Liszt v LvB v Schumann poll thread.

Chopin, jeez I've tried SO MANY TIMES with him, heard the whole body of work dozens of times, and it just never quite takes. I think I'm just not made for him, constitutionally. He's too perfect! The bleeding edges and ruinous grasp of Liszt and the torn impulses and disjunctions of Schumann suit me better on a gut level.

― every man and woman is a sitar (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 3 March 2011 19:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's a really interesting take on Chopin, to me. I don't subscribe to it - he seems so emotional to me, the first thing I feel when I hear Chopin is affinity, sympathy, common emotional ground. But I do see what you're saying: every note is in place. Most of my favorite music is rife with imperfection! But Chopin -- the depth of emotion is all to me, with him.

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 3 March 2011 19:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah i feel that it's THERE but it just doesn't pierce into me somehow?

It's funny, if I was a pianist instead of a guitarist/former saxist I wonder how different my responses to all these guys would be...

― every man and woman is a sitar (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 3 March 2011 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

OK, I'm curious what an example of a classical piece that's appealing because it's "rife with imperfections" would be. I agree that "every note is in place" with Chopin, but that's not exactly the first thing I would think of to describe, say, some of the Op. 28 preludes. Or the coda of the second sonata!

The pieces that initially got me into Chopin were the polonaises.

― timellison, Thursday, 3 March 2011 23:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

Well yeah finale of the second sonata, true true. In fact most of the second sonata.

― every man and woman is a sitar (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 3 March 2011 23:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also the etudes, the barcarolle, the ballades, the scherzos

― We make bouquets that fade immediately. (Turangalila), Thursday, 3 March 2011 23:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

― We make bouquets that fade immediately. (Turangalila), Thursday, 3 March 2011 23:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also the etudes, the barcarolle, the ballades, the scherzos

These all fall into the "almost too perfect" category for me. But life is long and I may change...

― every man and woman is a sitar (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 3 March 2011 23:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think what we're talking about here is Chopin as being experimental in form. And I would probably even go further and argue that it's more characteristic of his general style. Are the ballades more formally experimental than the polonaises?

And I mentioned the Op. 28 preludes, but there are probably plenty of nocturnes and mazurkas that could qualify as formally experimental miniatures, too.

― timellison, Thursday, 3 March 2011 23:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

He is definitely experimental in form, sometimes radically. The Ballades and Mazurkas are probably some of the most so.

― every man and woman is a sitar (Jon Lewis), Friday, 4 March 2011 00:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

OK, I'm curious what an example of a classical piece that's appealing because it's "rife with imperfections" would be.

Entirety of Bruckner, one of my favorite composers! Except maybe Te Deum, I think he gets nearly perfect there, but the rest has these moments of overreach, visible struggle - I sort of love that stuff

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 4 March 2011 03:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

rain gathering in the sky, listening to Sonata No. 2 (Olga Kern, Harmonia Mundi, terrific) - Chopin wins this poll for sure

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 6 March 2011 00:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Chopin for me as well, later Schumann stuff has been a revelation for me recently tho

― zappi, Sunday, 6 March 2011 00:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mozart vs. Capcom

― CaptainLorax, Sunday, 6 March 2011 00:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

dare I ask wtf Capt. L is talking about

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 6 March 2011 00:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol

― bernard snowy, Sunday, 6 March 2011 00:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

in the pantheon of all-time arcade greats

― bernard snowy, Sunday, 6 March 2011 00:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

deeply, deeply relevant

― Leighton Baines (nakhchivan), Sunday, 6 March 2011 00:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

rain gathering in the sky, listening to Sonata No. 2 (Olga Kern, Harmonia Mundi, terrific) - Chopin wins this poll for sure

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 6 March 2011 00:28 (25 minutes ago)

the german gods sent the rain cuz they knew u were going to decide a damn franco-slav could do sturm und drang better than them

― Leighton Baines (nakhchivan), Sunday, 6 March 2011 00:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's not the sturm und drang it's the finer feelings that Chopin excels in!

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 6 March 2011 01:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

― Leighton Baines (nakhchivan), Sunday, 6 March 2011 01:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

― System, Monday, 7 March 2011 00:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Chopin
Because Schubert and Mozart wrote other things besides piano music

― Odult Ariented Rock (Ówen P.), Monday, 7 March 2011 00:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

― System, Tuesday, 8 March 2011 00:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

dang

― save a tree, write a twitter (bernard snowy), Tuesday, 8 March 2011 00:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

polonaise in Ab major op 53 olga kern

whole life lived in 6:49

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 28 April 2011 20:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

paul badura-skoda

everybody remotely interested in this thread get him doing mozart at the very least

― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 7 August 2011 19:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

Thanks. I've been wanting to get into the Mozart sonatas but wasn't sure who to go with. Don't want to hear it overly romanticized.

― corey, Sunday, 7 August 2011 19:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

^ u need the Ivan Moravec Plays Mozart disc on Supraphon IMO.

Also I believe Aero has repped strong for the period-piano Mozart recordings of Kristian Bezuidenhout before, I really want to check out one of those. I think there are now two volumes on Harmonia Mundi and an earlier one on a smaller label...

― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Monday, 8 August 2011 17:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

uchida tbrr

― nakhchivan, Monday, 8 August 2011 17:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

― corey, Saturday, 13 August 2011 21:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

low placement of schubert incomprehensible to me

― j., Sunday, 14 August 2011 01:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

is he on spotify? could use a good sunday morning mozart sesh

― tine nic (k3vin k.), Sunday, 14 August 2011 01:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

uchida tbrr

she is truly one of the greatest pianists of all time imo

― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 14 August 2011 01:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

but badura-skoda on mozart is something that everybody who loves mozart should really hear because he really seems bent on making the voice of the composer audible. just so crisp

― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 14 August 2011 01:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

i love the uchida schubert box

― j., Sunday, 14 August 2011 02:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

Schubert, and only Schubert, on R3 for the next few days...

― xyzzzz__, Friday, 23 March 2012 22:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

On the classical thread I was going bonkers recently over Andsnes' recording of the Sonata D958.

― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Saturday, 24 March 2012 00:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

do you rate andsnes w/ liszt?

― The term “hipster racism” from Carmen Van Kerckhove at Racialicious (nakhchivan), Saturday, 24 March 2012 01:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

Trying to play this now and realizing I never will get it even remotely close to performance tempo. It's depressing.

― hot and brothered (Eric H.), Saturday, 24 March 2012 03:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

imo

― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Saturday, 24 March 2012 04:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

Why come piano gotta be so hard!

― hot and brothered (Eric H.), Saturday, 24 March 2012 04:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

do you rate andsnes w/ liszt?

― The term “hipster racism” from Carmen Van Kerckhove at Racialicious (nakhchivan)

I like his Liszt recital disc pretty well, and his Grieg, but his Schubert's on another level entirely (at least D958 and D959 which are the ones I have).

― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Saturday, 24 March 2012 18:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

good recording of Schubert's impromptus?

― Dominique, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:14 (9 months ago) Permalink

I've tried about 12 different cycles and I just keep coming back to Brendel (his analog one from the 70s, available in a 2fer with the Moments Musicaux etc, not his digital one). It has the most subtly hypnotic effect. I don't like for the performer to do too much to these pieces. They should just 'come down from the sky and stand there'.

― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Friday, 17 August 2012 17:26 (9 months ago) Permalink

oh sweet thanks. I listened to some of Krystian Zimerman play on youtube, but I don't know Schubert from Flaubert

― Dominique, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:39 (9 months ago) Permalink

Zimerman is ok but not great (I do love him in Liszt and Debussy). an easily available alt choice imo would be Radu Lupu.

― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Friday, 17 August 2012 18:03 (9 months ago) Permalink

I stan for Lupu that dude is great plus it's fun to say his name

― steven fucking tyler (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 17 August 2012 18:13 (9 months ago) Permalink

It really is!!!

I've sung it before to myself as well: ra-DOOO, Lu-POOO, ra-DOO lu-POO ra-DOO...

― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Friday, 17 August 2012 18:17 (9 months ago) Permalink