Public Image Limited : When did you get off the bus?

I love most of their singles. Although Second Edition is one of my desert island disks, "Rise" is for me their peak.

"Happy?" was so damn muddy, mixwise, I played it once, quite liked the last track, never went back to it.

only actually really got on the bus properly after seeing them live this time last year. So none of the above.

Listened to Album the other day and really enjoyed it. A great bunch of musicians for that one, but still really coherent.

have never investigated past flowers of romance, which has to be an oversight given 1st/2nd are some of my favourite albums

got off the bus when i saw PIL performing a terrible version of 'anarchy in the uk' on the tube, offended my punk purism or somesuch bs, wld prob love it now

got off the bus when i saw PIL performing a terrible version of 'anarchy in the uk' on the tube

definitely a public transport-related joke here

I basically still care about them through Flowers Of Romance, but I kept buying the albums through Album (suppose I'm kind of curious again about those mid '80s ones now -- haven't heard them in forever.) Happy is when I completely stopped paying attention, so that's what I'm voting for. (Though I've still never heard Commercial Zone -- in fact, I just checked a record guide to refresh my memory about what that one was.)

Also, I've got a CD best-of (early/mid '00s probably) called The Greatest Hits, So Far, but I couldn't tell you a thing about any song after "Rise," I don't think. Should probably play that again sometime. And yeah, like Alfred, Metal Box (have an actual metal box, but a reissued one)/Second Edition is one of my favorite albums ever.

I own that comp too; it boasts the new single "Don't Ask Me Why."

Much of their post-'86 material sounds like spikier INXS.

I own that comp too; it boasts the new single "Don't Ask Me Why."

Happy. Chronologically that also probably corresponds with my generally tuning out rock (in a very broad sense, yes) in general. I liked Album but was unimpressed when I saw them live around the time it came out. John Lydon resembled the Phillies Phanatic a little too much.

I'm not sure I've ever heard Happy?

Live in Tokyo. cool cover promising "interesting" music inside. DID. NOT. DELIVER.

^^

after "this is not a love song"

IMO anyone who bailed before Album missed one of the best albums of the 80s.

Album was their last effort I paid any attention to (although I do inexplicably own a copy of That What is Not).

Happy? has a few good songs on it (mostly "Seattle" and "The Body") but you might as well just get the "Seattle" 12" and be done with it.

The guitar sound on Album reupholstered my pussy.

I don't expect anyone else to share this sentiment, but I adore 1989's "Disappointed." It rises to a magnificent pitch.

Did anyone ever hear Lydon's Psycho's Path? (contender for worst album title ever)

ha I was going to mention "Disappointed" (why because it's fantastic) but I really stopped paying attention after that song

didn't bail; just hated much of his '83-'84 crap. kinda liked Happy, and REALLY dug Album back then, tho--haven't listened to either in full for the past couple of decades now.

xps

Lots of Psycho's Path tracks on Youtube.

The Peel session of "That What Is Not"s "Cruel" is excellent.

I feel like I might actually own the "Pyscho's Path" title track on some "electronica" compilation, but I have no idea where I'd look on my comp shelves to find it. (Also, didn't Lydon do a pretty good track with Leftfield once? Or am I confused about that?)

Yeah he did - Open Up

'That What Is Not', I didn't like the single from it so I couldn't care for that album. As for "Greatest Hits - So Far", the new track there ('Dont Ask Me') was actually brilliant.

Seattle is ace innit? I like it better than most of Metal Box that i've heard (and hated).

commercial zone is the most recent PIL album i still listen to, though the singles are great up through album

actually, for whatever reason, commercial zone is the only PIL album i listen to with any regularity

Went back to Album not long ago, and was surprised by how little I liked it, given how much I liked it in high school. So I guess the answer is Flowers of Romance, which still sounds great. Though the technically correct answer to the thread's title question is Happy.

I voted That What is Not because it was the first time I finished listening to a PiL album and knew right then and there that I never wanted to hear it again. Wasn't a huge fan of 9 though some of it was still pretty good.

Really very fond of Seattle, the guitar part especially is totally fantastic.

9 was the first one i bought - 'disappointed' was huge on postmodern mtv/120 minutes that summer. i own nothing past second edition now (though i always mean to get flowers of romance) beyond an mp3 of 'rise' (and very possibly some other tracks i'm forgetting/never listen to in some kroq end of year chart folder). still enjoy 'seattle' when i hear it on 80s radio stations, 'disappointed' still manages to provoke nostalgia.

I have the original Metal Box (with Keith Levenes autograph) that is now blackened with corrosion. It remains my favorite PiL record. Never really got into anything beyond that. I think I hit the wall with Lydons voice after a while.

Happy, Album, and 9 were the three that I listened to most when I was 13-14 and just getting into "Weird" (at least weird by the standards of pop/rock radio at the time...) music. I haven't heard them in years and I have no real desire to. I remember when That What Is Not came out, I tried to like it, but ultimately decided it was a crappy record and I stopped listening to PIL.

Oddly, I had a very similar reaction to Stoned and Dethroned by JAMC a short while later. It's funny how a bad record can make you stop caring about a band. I still love the early JAMC stuff(especially Up Too High, and the 4 track version of On The Wall...best drum sound ever...) but I haven't heard anything the did after that record to this day.

As I got a little older, I got into the first three PIL records. 2nd edition was on endless repeat on my car cassette deck sometime in the last 90's, and PIL and Flowers were records I picked up around the same time. During my last move(a year ago), I decided to sell my copies of 2nd Edition and Flowers. I don't think they are bad records, I just have no desire to listen to the again. I still own the first one, but never play it.

They are one of those groups who had a lot of potential and just didn't realize it and then got dragged down by careerism. It is a shame that the early line up couldn't get it together and make a few more great albums.

As it stands, IMHO early Jah Wobble records shit all over PIL from a great height. I have infinitely more time for the How Much Are They EP and the Snake Charmer EP. I think a lot of it just boils down to the fact that I really don't give a shit about rock music anymore. There is nothing wrong with rock per se, I am just over it.

Honestly I can't listen to FOR despite much effort: it's 'experimental' in a half-assed way.

I returned This Is What You Want to the record store when it came out, traded it right back in for a Swans LP. So that one.

Did anyone ever hear Lydon's Psycho's Path? (contender for worst album title ever)

yes

it is not good

Did anyone ever hear Lydon's Psycho's Path? (contender for worst album title ever)

Yes.

I thought it was pretty damn good.

Albums: after Metal Box. I sort-of meant to get around to buying Flowers Of Romance, but economic circumstances went against it.

Singles: after "Don't Ask Me".

"Disappointed" in the running for best PIL single though.

Didn't we poll them?

This is not a love poll: Best/Favourite Public Image Limited single Poll

oh yeah, *I* did...

Think I would have voted for 'Home' in that.

also, for those who haven't seen this..:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/MarkGrout/DSC00335.jpg

Paris au Printemps remains my fave PiL, btw--even tho i never really listen to it these days (i generally wimp out to the more sedate strains of ye olde Metal Box instead, tbt). but, man, the fucking ambiance of the thing is so beyond oppressive that i don't believe i could ever imagine better (or more appropriate) doomsday scenario music. add to that the fact that the live version of "Poptones" contained therein may well be my favorite live rock + artist/audience interaction performance extant (Wanker: "ATTACK! ATTACK!!"; John: "Wanker-shut-up..."; Audience "?"; John: "I'll walk of this fuckin stage if you keep spitting...DOGGG!"). and that its got a great/sick painted cover "portrait" of Lydon-Levene-Wobble as Jackass-Big Bird-looking thing-hirsute swamp beast(?), too. so, yeah, i really dig that one. and the sound of the original vinyl edition is truly brootal. but in a really good way. (sound on the cd sucks, natch. but then whadja expect?)

it could be wrong, it could be right

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maxe3u9vhF1qa6myvo1_250.jpg

they put a hot wire to his head!

now in the endless summer, I could be happy or in distress, depending on the company

I never imagined a time when Brian Wilson would look better than John Lydon.

i saw them in 2010 and the first issue/metal box stuff was FANTASTIC - even if none of them actually played on it. The "psycho's path"/"rise"/"disappointed" seemed to please those old enough to remember them from college radio, but I just waited it out. Latest song they played was that Leftfield "Open Up" number though - would totally see them again on a Plays Metal Box tour but not sure about the new material.

i should exclude "psycho's path" from that college rock comment

Wobble & Levene have been doing Plays Metal Box shows this year, to Lydon's withering contempt

Things that don't earn Lydon's withering contempt:

- John Lydon
- Butter advertisements
- The Slits

- Poly Styrene

To give him his due, it really is good butter.

I wonder how that Wobble/Levene ep released earlier this year is?

The Slits

I've never heard someone go off on someone else as savagely as Lydon did when talking to me about Ari Up (this was in the early 90s, long prior to her passing.) He was not kind. I've since heard he spent a lot of time teaching Ari's kids to read, since she didn't believe they needed to know this herself. I've never heard him much praise the Slits, to be honest . . . though he was quite lavish in his praise for the Raincoats.

I wonder how that Wobble/Levene ep released earlier this year is?

Pretty good so long as you're not expecting Metal Box II. But don't bother, as it appears that all four tracks appear in the new album, plus six more. I haven't heard that, so I can't confirm that the versions are identical, but buyer beware.

a bit more on this: http://www.contactmusic.com/news/john-lydon-i-was-too-busy-playing-daddy-to-reform-pil_1346009

http://i46.tinypic.com/35d6rkk.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/19xuhi.jpg

"World Destruction" is the sound of two all-time musicians reaching their nadir at the exact same moment.

Not helped by the fact that Laswell has never understood that just because two things have never gone together before that doesn't mean they necessarily should.

I don't know why I'm enjoying this as much as I am... Think I was prepared for the worst?

http://concert.arte.tv/fr/europunk-public-image-limited

It's good to have low expectations, you can only go up.

I listened to "Happy" and "9" recently and dug almost all of them aside from a few tracks. Still looking for a good recent live set.

The one I just linked to is from last month btw - Feb 25th.

listened to 'seattle' only today. have never ventured into anything later than that song, but i do love it

oh wait. 2013. sorry. Xp

They're touring the US again. Should I get back on the bus? Haven't listened to 'em in ages.

http://www.johnlydon.com/images2/pil-cycle-jersey.jpg
.. and onto the Bike?

"The wheels on the bike go ROUND AND AROUND, AROUNDAROUND ROUND ROUND..."

Free bus with every copy..

Release Date 28 October 2016
Product code
5701491
Format
Quadruple CD Album
Label
UMC / Virgin EMI
On 28th October, PiL will reissue the seminal albums ‘Metal Box’ and ‘Album’. ‘Metal Box’ was the band’s second album, originally released on 23rd November 1979 and ‘Album’ was their 5th studio album and was originally released on 3rd February 1986, marking 2016 as its 30th anniversary.

The album’s will both be issued as 4 CD and 4 vinyl LP super-deluxe box sets, as well as digitally. The editions will include rare and previously unreleased material along with a live disc. The CD version’s feature additional tracks to the vinyl editions due to running time restrictions, however, the vinyl edition will include a download card for all tracks on the CD version’s. ‘Metal Box’ will be issued in a square metal tin (CD & LP) (the 1979 original was issued in a round metal film canister) with an embossed PiL logo. Both super-deluxe editions will include a 72 page booklet together with an exclusive poster, art-prints (LP version) and postcards (CD version).

With all lyrics written by John Lydon ‘Metal Box’ was recorded with original PiL members Keith Levene and Jah Wobble. Original drummer Jim Walker had left, to be replaced by a succession of drummers. ‘Metal Box’ came out less than a year after PiL’s debut ‘Public Image: First Issue’ yet it was nothing like its predecessor. Things had changed, and so had PiL. 

While outside pressures mounted PiL channeled their energies (negative and positive) into a record that would set them apart back in 1979, and indeed today in 2016. Whether it be John’s powerful and passionate vocals; Keith’s wailing guitar and melodic synths; Wobble’s sub-disco reggae basslines; or the crashing rhythm that holds it all together, ‘Metal Box’ has many strengths. The album was originally released as 3 x 45rpm 12” singles, housed in a metal ‘film’ canister. As made by ‘The Metal Box Company’ in London’s East End; hence the name. The deluxe edition includes rare and unreleased mixes from the recording sessions, along with B-sides and BBC sessions, plus a live recording from a now legendary unplanned show at Factory Records Russell Club in Manchester arranged on the day of a Granada TV appearance.

Tracklist:
Disc 1:
Remastered album
1. Albatross
2. Memories
3. Swan Lake (Death Disco)
4. Poptones
5. Careering
6. No Birds Do Sing
7. Graveyard
8. The Suit
9. Bad Baby
10. Socialist
11. Chant
12. Radio 4

Disc 2:
B-sides, mixes & radio sessions
1. Death Disco (7” edit)
2. Death Disco 12”
3. Half Mix / Megga Mix (b-side)
4. Death Disco - BBC TV, Top of the Pops July 12.7.72
5. Memories 12”
6. Another (b-side)
7. Poptones - BBCRadio 1, John Peel Sessions 1979
8. Careering - BBC Radio 1, John Peel Sessions 1979
9. Chant - BBC Radio 1, John Peel Sessions 1979
10. Poptones - BBC TV, Old Grey Whistle Test 5/2/80 (audio)
11. Careering - BBC TV, Old Grey Whistle Test 5/2/80 (audio)
12. Pied Piper (rare compilation-only track)

Disc 3:
Unreleased Mixes
1. Poptones (version 3) (unreleased)
2. Swan Lake (monitor mix)
3. Albatross (monitor mix) (alternative mix)
4. Swan Lake (“master”) (alternative mix) (unreleased)
5. Unknown INST Jam 1 (“Chant”) (unreleased)
6. Unknown Jam 2 (“Megachant”) (unreleased)
7. Music from an Oven (aka Memories) (unreleased)
8. Radio 4 (“symphony suite”) (unreleased)
9. Home is Where The Heart is (original mix) (unreleased)
10. Unknown INST 2 (unreleased)

Disc 4:
Live at Manchester, Russell’s Club (The Factory) 18/6/79 (unreleased)
1. Chant
2. Swan Lake (aka Death Disco)
3. Memories
4. Public Image
5. Annalisa
6. No Birds Do Sing

LOL:

Metal Box has many strengths

Seriously, tho, this looks pretty awesome.

man that is a whooooole lotta filler

For me, it's all about the first three albums and Commercial Zone, and the odd track here and there after that but not full albums.

The parts on 'Memories' where the track completely changes sonically as a result of two different mixes of the same track being edited together is such a genius production decision.

A lot of people followed this arc of "growing out of" the Sex Pistols and realizing that PiL is, like, waaay better, but for me it was the other way around. Metal Box was one of my first left-of-center postpunk discoveries but at some point it "unclicked" with me (the hype wore off? I got more honest with myself?) and I can't even remember what I saw in it.

"GET PISSED / DESTROYYYYY" > the whole jittery awkward situationist smartypants scene

i adore album

I think the Order of Death might be my favorite PIL thing.

critical support for post-Levene PiL regime - even the drabbest bits of Happy? And 9 have John McGeoch doing something interesting off in a corner of the mix -

but i leap off the bus with the arrival of that noxious single Don’t Ask Me - maybe i am doing it wrong but that seemed to me a really repellent little ditty

The drum sound on "Rise" is so awful I've never listened to the entire album (or anything after tbh). The rest of that song (Steve Vai aside) could be salvageable but those are some of the worst drums of the '80s.

huh, the drum sound is part of its weird charm for me

"Don't ask me" John didn't write.

The credits have all the band named, which is fine as John has always done that with all his songs, there's a fair few drummers getting royalty cheques that other bands wouldn't..

I think 'Disappointed' was his last great single.

But, if you enjoy your job and don't want to quit, then carry on! Let's not get precious about it ..

Allan Dias wrote 'Don't Ask Me'

I love the drum sound on Album :)

I think 'Seattle' was his last great single. The only post-Levine album I've heard in full [by accident] is That What Is Not, which ranges from passable to terrible.

"Rise" is the best coulda-been INXS single, "Anger is an energy" one of my favorite maxims.

I do prefer the single remix:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXBFh05uVXU

if you enjoy your job and don't want to quit, then carry on! Let's not get precious about it

This would make a wonderful maxim for ILM

Yeah, but.

"The parts on 'Memories' where the track completely changes sonically as a result of two different mixes of the same track being edited together is such a genius production decision."

Lester Bangs mentioned that in his review of the album:
https://www.fodderstompf.com/ARCHIVES/REVIEWS/MBox_Bangs.html

"I read in NME that (Memories) was directed at the "Mod Revival" in England but then I don't believe anything I read in NME anymore. Whether or not it applies to "Happy Days", Grease, all the proliferating falsifications of what I and everyone I know experienced once in what it is now so convenient to call "the fifties" or "the sixties," as if life was really measured or lived in arbitrary decades, when the history books are sold like comix I for one will still be listening to Lydon: "You make me feel ashamed / Enacting attitudes / Remember ridicule? / It should be clear by now / Your words are useless, full of excuses, false confidence / Someone has used you well / Used you well."

Then, on the album version, the whole sound shifts, into a new and hotter realm. It's something I have never in my life heard anyone do in the middle of a track, and as the grooves begin to burn themselves away he resumes: "I could be wrong / It could be hate / As far as I can see clinging desperately / No personality dragging on and on and on and on / I think you're slightly late / Slightly late...""

It's striking - the whole mix goes through a phaser, or something like that. I remember hearing "Careering" somewhere, so I picked up The Greatest Hits, So Far, which is in chronological order, with "Don't Ask Me" at the end. And then gradually the first few albums. The debut is a throwaway with one classic single, Metal Box is excellent, Flowers of Romance sounds like an ancestor of some of the stuff on Peter Gabriel's Real World Records, and then the discography gets very bitty. About the only thing I remember of "Warrior" is that it was in Wild Orchid.

I remember "Order of Death" from Hardware. The rest of This is What You Want isn't very good. I haven't heard anything from 1990 onwards, apart from "Acid Drops", which didn't enthuse me. Given Lydon's willingness to work with top studio talent on Album it's fascinating to imagine him collaborating with Peter Gabriel. It might have worked! There's a muezzin-esque aspect to his vocal delivery at times, as if he was delivering a call to prayer. I can imagine the soundtrack of Last Temptation of Christ with John Lydon warbling all over it.

I can't tell if he decided at some point in the 1990s that PiL was a joke novelty band, or not. Or if he was ever serious about making it a going concern. He had no trouble generating publicity but it never seemed to benefit the band. And yet Rise was obviously intended to sell a lot of records.

this thread revive has sent me down a pil 1983-1990 rabbit hole

some stray observations

the 1983/4 “cabaret” band were probably better than their reputation - and maybe the neutered sound of Live In Tokyo isn’t a fair indication of their sound - like, there is a bit of rockin’ overplaying but they generally do a decent take on the material - this footage is pretty great and i would totally have loved to see this show, Pistols cover and all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr5SBwMfmZA

the interviews here are very good reading if (as i do) you enjoy philosophical reflections and/or score settling by musicians who had a minor part in a major band

i had no idea Robert Poss was almost in PiL!

i knew Alan Dias wrote Don’t Ask Me but that doesn’t make it a good single?! i was a very unlikely rabid teenage PiL fan in 1989 who was totally into the current line-up - when it came out I couldn’t understand how it was the same band. Dias says he hates how soft it sounded in the interviews linked, would be keen to hear his demo.

John McGeoch absolutely lifts all the material he contributed to in PiL but he also got up to some slightly surprising stuff in the late 1980s, lots of little whammy bar semi-metal peacocking - i guess he was kinda replacing Steve Vai so it kinda makes sense that he’d go a bit in that direction - still love him heaps

(the interview - via link in post above - with Nick Launay about Flowers of Romance is fantastic)

had no idea that Malachi Favors played on album!

I remember when "Disappointed" was on 120 Minutes a lot, and that may have been the first I knew of the band, tbh. I would have been ... 14 or so? Never bought that record, though. Weirdly, I do remember the New Order/PiL/Sugarcubes tour that summer (didn't go), and def. got into New Order and Sugarcubes, but again, not PiL. A couple of years later I finally got Second Edition and liked that a lot, but found myself gravitating more toward whatever Wobble and Atkins were doing elsewhere. Invaders of the Heart, Ministry, Killing Joke, etc. Not sure I ever bought a PiL album besides Second Edition, come to think of it, though I did like the odd song or two. I also saw the band on its reunion tour in 2010 but was not feeling it at all.

Funny enough, I did see the documentary, which has some incredible footage and good interviews but is still pretty boilerplate. The thing about Lydon is that he by his very nature sucks all the focus onto himself, always, which can be a bit exhausting. The end credits feature, for some reason, him hanging out with John Waters and meeting Ian MacKaye, and those fleeting moments made me wish for a movie that wasn't just another long episode of the Johnny Lydon show. He's always going on about how difficult this or that situation was, or this or that person was, but as if it wasn't totally obvious decades ago, *he's* clearly the difficult one. Again, by design. He might mock Malcolm McLaren's love of situationism, but Lydon embodies that more than almost anyone else, on an epic scale, all by himself.

What a strange recurrence - a song for Nora, who's on a journey into Alzheimer's, offered as a potential Eurovision entry for Ireland.
A beautiful sentiment but I find almost nothing in the song to enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc5v7FHx5Do

it doesn’t really feel like it belongs under the PiL banner, but given that my answer to the poll question is “1989”, i wish him all the best with wherever he wants to drive the bus

Love Hawaii, have been coming back to it every week or so.

this new album is better than I was expecting.

I keep meaning to give it a listen