http://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2011/01/on-white-she-devils/68822/
Ta-Nehisi throws his hat in the ring.
― Alex in Montreal, Monday, 3 January 2011 23:00 (thirteen years ago) link
Nicki Minaj is a terror, and her closer on Monster called me back to Busta in the era of "Scenario."
wait...and not nicki on roman's revenge???
― dayo, Tuesday, 4 January 2011 01:00 (thirteen years ago) link
where does he say 'but not on roman's revenge'?
― balls, Tuesday, 4 January 2011 01:03 (thirteen years ago) link
'roman's revenge' is the explicit tribute to scenario so it's weird to see him say that nicki on 'monster' is the homage
― dayo, Tuesday, 4 January 2011 01:05 (thirteen years ago) link
he said it reminds him of "Scenario," not that he cosiders it an homage. in fact sometimes I wonder if Nicki quoted Busta on that song because of how often she got compared to him after "Monster."
― hann am0n tana (some dude), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 01:42 (thirteen years ago) link
it reminded me of "Scenario" too, tbh
― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 01:45 (thirteen years ago) link
me too, said as much upthread. not as explicit as "roman's revenge", but very similar
― carles marx (contenderizer), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 01:56 (thirteen years ago) link
― Alex in Montreal, Monday, January 3, 2011 5:00 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
gangster
― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 01:56 (thirteen years ago) link
caramanica OTM, whether or not he's part of the problem (note: the problem isn't people liking the kanye west album)
― carles marx (contenderizer), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 01:57 (thirteen years ago) link
caramanica's piece seems like a have-your-cake-&-eat-it-too kinda thing to me, i dunno. you get to diss pfork & rs while still playing it safe by voting for the record? walk the walk imo
― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:03 (thirteen years ago) link
or at the very least, be specific about where your issues are coming up a la coates
caramanica's point isn't that it's a bad album. and how is you not especially liking the album but shouting down its detractors not a have-your-cake-&-eat-it-too kinda thing?
― hann am0n tana (some dude), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:10 (thirteen years ago) link
because im criticizing specific parts of their writing that i feel are inaccurate vs. his general distrust of, what, giving something a 5 star rating?
― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:11 (thirteen years ago) link
coates peice is awesome, just read it. but i won't fault caramanica simply for liking the album (i like it too). he's right about the tedium of willed consensus and especially about the odd institutional unwillingness to fairly evaluate a "moment-defining" record that obviously has at least as many weaknesses as strengths.
― carles marx (contenderizer), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:13 (thirteen years ago) link
he said it reminds him of "Scenario," not that he cosiders it an homage. in fact sometimes I wonder if Nicki quoted Busta on that song because of how often she got compared to him after "Monster."― hann am0n tana (some dude), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 9:42 AM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark
― hann am0n tana (some dude), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 9:42 AM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark
huh! I haven't been following nicki's coverage/ I don't even OWN a TV so I didn't realize this was a point of ref for Nicki. makes sense I guess
― dayo, Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:13 (thirteen years ago) link
personally, i think it's great to have critics rally around one record like this. I didn't think we'd ever see that happen again, tbh
― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:14 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean, i dont think he didnt make some good pts in there -- it just feels like a weird way of separating himself from the herd i guess
― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:14 (thirteen years ago) link
the NYT piece reads like a hastily commissioned piece: another sign-of-the-times essay. It equivocates whenever you expect him to say, "Fuck off, this is excellent."
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:15 (thirteen years ago) link
― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 10:14 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
yeah but the point is this feels like a circling the wagons type move
― dayo, Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:16 (thirteen years ago) link
i have no idea what that means
― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:16 (thirteen years ago) link
it is insane to me that something like the Atlantic can still exist with an obstuse blog header like "On White She-Devils" instead of google-bating "Is Kanye West Worth The Hype?" ish
haha spoken like the originator of hipster puppies
― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:20 (thirteen years ago) link
― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Monday, January 3, 2011 9:11 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
this is really the key part, for me:
“My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy” may or may not have been the best album of 2010. Believe what you will. Either way it’s not even the best Kanye West album. So now what — turn it up to 11.0? Plead for extra credit? Develop a new ranking system?
i really just have a hard time believing that MBDTF is the favorite Kanye album of the majority of the people raving about it
― hann am0n tana (some dude), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:21 (thirteen years ago) link
That's what I mean about equivocation though. Writing a series of banal rhetorical questions is filling space.
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:22 (thirteen years ago) link
― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Monday, January 3, 2011 9:03 PM (20 minutes ago)
yeah this is what i was saying
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:24 (thirteen years ago) link
i guess i just think his point would mean more coming from someone not complicit in the reactionbut then im also just rmde that his list also included deuces rmx, fab, drake & rick ross so
― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:25 (thirteen years ago) link
well i got shit for talking down the record putting it at #34 on my year-end list, and lex got shit for saying it was completely without merit. there's no right way to deny the mountain!
― hann am0n tana (some dude), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:26 (thirteen years ago) link
yeesh dude
― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:28 (thirteen years ago) link
i gave u shit for giving me shit, so now youre giving me shit
think this thru before we go any further
― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:29 (thirteen years ago) link
the bore went over the mountain to see what he could see...
― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:31 (thirteen years ago) link
lex got shit for saying something that i felt was obv inaccurate, which isnt really the same as 'finding it without merit'i gave you shit for being hypocritical -- i got crap from you for saying it was bad but defending pieces that liked it / attacking lex's argument, then you wrote a big screed against it & ranked it on your best albums of the year list (which i didnt do) -- the only reason i objected to your TREATMENT OF THE MOUNTAIN was because u were being flagrantly hypocritical
― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:33 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm so sad I was off ilx the week we talked about what "the mountain" is, because i have no fuckin idea
― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:53 (thirteen years ago) link
deej will be happy to explain it to you
― dayo, Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:54 (thirteen years ago) link
oh god you're missing some classic deej -- search this thread for "mountain" sometime
― hann am0n tana (some dude), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:54 (thirteen years ago) link
does he say "the mountain" more in here than he says "tunnel bangers" in other threads?
― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 02:56 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAhO4PS6HoY
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 03:02 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.unionofyouth.org/wp-content/uploads/gotellitmount1.jpg
― dayo, Tuesday, 4 January 2011 03:03 (thirteen years ago) link
personally, i think it's great to have critics rally around one record like this. I didn't think we'd ever see that happen again, tbh― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten)
― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten)
not sure i buy this 100%. would you say the same thing if critics were rallying around, say, Eminem's Recovery in the same manner? or is it just that they're repping for an album you happen to also really like?
― slouching, unshaven, thick-necked, unstylish, pig-eyed (ilxor), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 03:13 (thirteen years ago) link
― hann am0n tana (some dude), Monday, January 3, 2011 8:54 PM (35 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
some classic shipley faux naif too
― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 03:30 (thirteen years ago) link
'i dont understand what you mean! so confusing!'
its in front of your face
whiney it was a point about subjectivity & critical perspectives that al chose to read as 'total bullshit' because its easy for him to be condescending and smug
― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 03:32 (thirteen years ago) link
sorry about those not being actual quotes but its buried so deep in this thread at this point i dont feel like loading it all to quote him exactly but that was the gist of it
whiney, deej went hard on us for denying the mountain
― dayo, Tuesday, 4 January 2011 03:35 (thirteen years ago) link
dayo you should try contributing an actual thought itt sometime
― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 03:38 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean, u risk trolls going "lol ... mountain!" but then, u would actually be contributing something to teh discussion, so, tradeoff
― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 03:39 (thirteen years ago) link
imo, al should write an actual review taking down the record
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Tuesday, November 30, 2010 11:16 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yeah i don't really have a good outlet for album reviews right now but i'll probably blog something about it soon. i guess anything that isn't "this is magnificent" will be looked at as a takedown but really i just think it's middling. might still be in my year-end list somewhere in the 30s or 40s.
― Prince SBanBan (some dude), Tuesday, November 30, 2010 11:20 AM (1 month ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
if today's the day to link our blog rants against this album, here's mine: http://narrowcast.blogspot.com/2010/12/last-week-i-did-my-usual-monthly-report.html
― ITT Deadliest Choads (some dude), Monday, December 6, 2010 5:41 PM (4 weeks ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
al thats a really good review!
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, December 2010 6:15 PM (4 weeks ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
amazing that a month later my review, which wasn't remotely the takedown deej asked for, is "a big screed against" the album and it being on my year-end list exactly where i'd said it be is somehow surprising or hypocritical
― hann am0n tana (some dude), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 03:39 (thirteen years ago) link
huh?? saying its a screed doesnt mean i disagree w/ it ... its blatantly a hit-job piece though.
i dont remember you saying anything about it being 'exactly at 34' though or maybe i missed it in that piece
― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 03:41 (thirteen years ago) link
i still think its a good piece, but its not the kind of piece i would write before putting an album on my year-end list. and i thought it was funny that you did considering how much shit you gave me for criticizing lex itt
― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 03:42 (thirteen years ago) link
how do you define "hit job"?
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 03:42 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean, its a piece that pretty much says the record is critically flawed?