Would it have made any difference if I'd said "why do you hate Kanye's singing on that line, since it doesn't really seem THAT bad particularly in relation to other things on the album like 'Dark Fantasy'?" Because those were really the examples I was thinking of; the wider point of other mumbly/indistinct singers was floating out there as an expansion point for the conversation.
xp: or what J0rdan said, unless you're just saying that you hate all singers which mumble which is totally fine and something that can be said without strawmanning and being hilariously defensive.
― BO (DJP), Friday, 10 December 2010 19:30 (thirteen years ago) link
"why do you hate Kanye's singing on that line, since it doesn't really seem THAT bad particularly in relation to other things on the album like 'Dark Fantasy'?"
You're right that technical proficiency isn't the whole picture, but is it that hard to grasp that coming up short on the big money moment of an emotional American Idol-style ballad could rankle a listener more than in less consequential-to-the-song instances?
― da croupier, Friday, 10 December 2010 19:43 (thirteen years ago) link
The subjective thing that no one wants to talk about or interrogate or discuss is the "coming up short" part. I keep asking "Why do you think he came up short there?" and the response I'm getting is "BECAUSE HE DID STOP ATTACKING ME"
― BO (DJP), Friday, 10 December 2010 19:46 (thirteen years ago) link
well what did you mean by "it isn't pretty"?
― da croupier, Friday, 10 December 2010 19:46 (thirteen years ago) link
I mean he's shouting; you can hear vocal strain in the notes he's hitting.
― BO (DJP), Friday, 10 December 2010 19:47 (thirteen years ago) link
well then
― da croupier, Friday, 10 December 2010 19:47 (thirteen years ago) link
...
I should have deleted this board when I had the chance
― BO (DJP), Friday, 10 December 2010 19:48 (thirteen years ago) link
I've learned a lot about life.
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 December 2010 19:51 (thirteen years ago) link
― BO (DJP), Friday, December 10, 2010 2:30 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i've criticized a lot of the other vocal moments on the album on similar grounds -- specifically the line in "Monster" after the Napoleon Dynamite impression when he's rapping, not singing, but kind of grumbles intelligibly in a similar way. and i hate the sing-song flow on "Dark Fantasy" as much as you. i wouldn't say that those parts don't bother me just because I said the "Runaway" part is the nadir of the album instead of that.
― some dude, Friday, 10 December 2010 19:52 (thirteen years ago) link
Ha, okay. I can't fathom hating anything on the album as much as I hate "Dark Fantasy" tbh; there something especially galling about talking about how nice your flow is and then immediately pulling out that garbage (not to mention the "seance"/"parENCE" couplet). I pretty much thought I was going to hate the entire album up until "Power".
― BO (DJP), Friday, 10 December 2010 19:56 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah you won't catching me defending that song. it'd be better without the constant muppet choir interruptions, but even without them it'd be a pretty average Kanye rap song.
― some dude, Friday, 10 December 2010 19:59 (thirteen years ago) link
i almost feel like the first 2 tracks exist to make "Power" sound bigger and better than i thought it was before
actually since I apparently keep attempting to blot "Devil in a New Dress" from my memory, I actually hate that one more; at least I can laugh at "Dark Fantasy"
― BO (DJP), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:01 (thirteen years ago) link
i like dark fantasy for sounding like rza
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:02 (thirteen years ago) link
it does? i was kinda surprised when i found out he was involved in that track.
― some dude, Friday, 10 December 2010 20:09 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean there's a 'generic 90s rap piano loop' feel to it but nothing that jumped out to me as very rza-sounding
― some dude, Friday, 10 December 2010 20:10 (thirteen years ago) link
uh, the fact that the loop closes in on itself with no crossover is a very RZA thing (or a very muggs thing)
― in my world of young puppies (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:23 (thirteen years ago) link
the fact that ye can't this the notes it makes it more human, period.
for some reason i always think ilx is above this lame "this record is flawed but you know what, human beings are flawed WHOA" stuff
― k3vin k., Friday, 10 December 2010 20:26 (thirteen years ago) link
did you guys not have punk rock growing up?
― in my world of young puppies (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:29 (thirteen years ago) link
we had soulja boy
― gimme schefter (J0rdan S.), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:30 (thirteen years ago) link
I had punk rock growing up, and I hated a lot of it for being too incompetent and a little too playing-with-racism-y.
― BO (DJP), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:30 (thirteen years ago) link
(in fact, I am older than u)
the actual flaws in the record, kevin, is that he says dumb shit like "NNNAHHHHHHH PUT A PUSSY IN SARCOPHOPHOHGPGS" not that he's up on Jagjaguwar shit and knows that sometimes leaving in imperfections is an artistic choice for a lot of modern musicians
― in my world of young puppies (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:31 (thirteen years ago) link
that he's up on Jagjaguwar shit
okay, stop
― gimme schefter (J0rdan S.), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:32 (thirteen years ago) link
um
― in my world of young puppies (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:32 (thirteen years ago) link
next thing you're gonna try & explain him recording in hawaii because he's into underwater peoples
― gimme schefter (J0rdan S.), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:33 (thirteen years ago) link
Who do you thinks put out Bon Iver records?
― in my world of young puppies (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:33 (thirteen years ago) link
Pitchfork doesn't just gift them to the internet
― in my world of young puppies (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:34 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah but "purposefully singing poorly" is not something that kanye started doing on this album
― gimme schefter (J0rdan S.), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:34 (thirteen years ago) link
or something that he realized was okay because of bon iver
― gimme schefter (J0rdan S.), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:35 (thirteen years ago) link
wonder if kanye has been hipped to richard youngs
― call all destroyer, Friday, 10 December 2010 20:35 (thirteen years ago) link
(not to mention that there's no evidence that kanye has heard any bon iver song besides "the woods" considering that's the one he samples & that he has vernon singing thru auto tune on every song)
i'm just saying chicken or egg it's an aesthetic he clearly understands
― in my world of young puppies (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:36 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah but it's something he copped from lil wayne, not merge records
― gimme schefter (J0rdan S.), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:37 (thirteen years ago) link
intentionally singing poorly is a longstanding cross-genre thing & not rlly a big deal. this debate is confusing -- obvi al's problem is that this poor singing is employed as a strategy that doesnt work for him in this instance, and other people think it does work -- these are the terms on which this debate wd actually make sense. Also 'dark fantasy' struck me as rza esque immediately, so i knew it was his track as soon as i heard it. tonally-limited off-meter loop, its like the most rza sounding thing ever
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:41 (thirteen years ago) link
tim f says this a lot, its more helpful to think of these aesthetic approaches as 'strategies' that succeed or fail based on the listeners expectations, rather than automatically c or d techniques
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:43 (thirteen years ago) link
bon iver is a gayng member, maybe that's how kanye know him
― 311 did 4/20 (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:44 (thirteen years ago) link
http://lolosad.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/sad_pug_4.jpg
― in my world of young puppies (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:46 (thirteen years ago) link
pug lyfe
― 311 did 4/20 (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 10 December 2010 20:57 (thirteen years ago) link
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Friday, December 10, 2010 3:41 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Friday, December 10, 2010 3:43 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yeah true. i mean, i really don't like the singing on "Runaway" and even if you like it it shouldn't be that hard to figure out where i'm coming from. and yet here we are bringing Rough Trade and Jagjaguwar into it like that means anything at all.
― some dude, Friday, 10 December 2010 21:13 (thirteen years ago) link
I can get why someone wouldn't like "Runaway"; I was asking because the reasons you were giving didn't jibe with my experience with the song and I was curious if there was another layer that was fueling the antipathy.
― "Kiss Players♥" (DJP), Friday, 10 December 2010 21:15 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah...if anything the extra layer is that hearing the song on the VMAs i was like "okay, it's live, he's always a little shaky there" and then the studio version comes out and the vocals are even sloppier.
― some dude, Friday, 10 December 2010 21:16 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean Kanye has aggro songs like "Keep The Receipt" where he's hollering along with ODB, i'm not really going to sweat the perfection of the vocal performance there, but "Runaway" feels like it's aspiring to be a big pop moment but then you've got this one kinda weak verse, a chorus that could've been tightened up a little, an off-topic guest rap, and singing so half-assed it makes me grind my teeth.
― some dude, Friday, 10 December 2010 21:17 (thirteen years ago) link
in an utter coincidence, i borrowed my roommate's car an hour or so ago & he had 'late registration' in the cd player & i totally forgot how sweet & endearing kanye's singing on "hey mama" is
― gimme schefter (J0rdan S.), Friday, 10 December 2010 23:11 (thirteen years ago) link
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ld8h5wx63g1qe6dleo1_500.jpg
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Saturday, 11 December 2010 16:28 (thirteen years ago) link
it was the best of times, it was the ....blurst of times???
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Saturday, 11 December 2010 16:29 (thirteen years ago) link
i want poster!
― Saytin Saytin Saytin (Ioannis), Saturday, 11 December 2010 18:59 (thirteen years ago) link
Was out at a bar last night with one of those digital jukebox things and we played "Monster", got a pretty big reaction from the assembled crowd. Not as big as when we followed it up with "Hard in Da Paint" though.
― one pretty obvious guy in the obvious (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Saturday, 11 December 2010 19:37 (thirteen years ago) link
assembled crowd otm
― unemployed aerosmith fans I have shoved (bernard snowy), Saturday, 11 December 2010 22:32 (thirteen years ago) link
are you sure it wasn't free-shots-for-the-ladies night?
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 December 2010 22:36 (thirteen years ago) link