i don't mind kanye, but mj/stevie comparisons make me hate him.
― bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:23 (thirteen years ago) link
It’s not simply Kanye’s ego that puts me in mind of crusty aristocrats: It’s also the drums, samples, melodies, and synths on this album. Crisp, graceful sounds keep bumping up against muddy, sweaty ones. Elegant minor-key melodies keep bumping up against rawness and ego. Opulence bumps up against grit, until the music begins to sound a little decayed, tragic, and under threat.
love this
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:23 (thirteen years ago) link
was a time when only hitting the lower reaches of the top 20 would have signaled the dimming of a once bright star, not the crowning of the new king of pop
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:15 (5 minutes ago) Permalink
except hes totally pushing this as an 'album art' type deal, not a comp of hot singles
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:24 (thirteen years ago) link
right, so he's not a pop star, he's a fuckin album rock artist
― questeon the answers (call all destroyer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:24 (thirteen years ago) link
which is pretty much the problem with this album
― questeon the answers (call all destroyer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:25 (thirteen years ago) link
well, no
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:25 (thirteen years ago) link
he's certainly a pop star
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:26 (thirteen years ago) link
and they make no sense. he just hasn't been a hitmaker on that level. he's come close, but no more so than a number of other artists over the past decade. not even sure i buy that he's been a culture shaper on a similar level. i see him more as a very clear and available mirror.
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:26 (thirteen years ago) link
xp no not completely but there is something abt the proceedings here that scream big-ass rock album to me
― questeon the answers (call all destroyer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:26 (thirteen years ago) link
Yes, I think with this album there is definitely "something about the proceedings here that scream big-ass rock album," and I think that's partially why the album's received so much praise, for better or worse.
― altered boners (rennavate), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:27 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah i mean bubba sparxx was a much better bubba sparxx idg why he needed that persona -- even from a marketing standpoint it feels redundent
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:29 (thirteen years ago) link
doh rong thread
haha i was having a lot of trouble parsing that
― BIG MUFFIN (gbx), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:30 (thirteen years ago) link
and this isn't gonna sell that much more than nicki's album apparently, & not even half as much as taylor swift― J0rdan S., Tuesday, November 23, 2010 4:21 PM (7 minutes ago)
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, November 23, 2010 4:21 PM (7 minutes ago)
I thought he'd do at least as well as Taylor! Yikes!
― markers, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:30 (thirteen years ago) link
he is a pop star, but what seems to make him relevant is that he manages to bridge the gap between the last decade or so of "reality" stars who generate nothing more than they own brand identities and our received ideas of what pop stardom is supposed to be ("important" in the dylan/mj sense).
and yes, this is definitely an aor-style "big rock album," just like the love below was. probably why i like them both so much. tusk!
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:32 (thirteen years ago) link
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 2:32 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
If you talk to a rock critic, they'll always say they like The Love Below more; rap critics will say they like Speakerboxxx more. I think that speaks volumes.
(And of course I'm generalizing here.)
― altered boners (rennavate), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:37 (thirteen years ago) link
oh for the love of god don't mention 'the love below'
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:39 (thirteen years ago) link
Flying Lotusflyinglotus Flying Lotuskanye is so good at being just good enough.
― bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:41 (thirteen years ago) link
you could maybe argue that the rush to embrace this album represents a retreat to a kind of aesthetic morality (important! visionary! risky! real! progressive!) in response to a pop culture that's become a bit too satisfied with pop artifice and superficiality. hence n's fascination with the grime beneath the polish.
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:49 (thirteen years ago) link
not "hence" so much as "for example"
wtf hence, anyway? what kind of word is that? it doesn't even look right. hence.
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:51 (thirteen years ago) link
and this isn't gonna sell that much more than nicki's album apparently, & not even half as much as taylor swift
Jumping back to this here (and maybe this has been discussed since, busy at work and can't really keep up with this thread), but didn't 808s get off to a slow sales start?
― "I am a fairly respected poster." (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:51 (thirteen years ago) link
― markers, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 3:30 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark
didnt she outsell the entire top 49 combined the week she went number 1?
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:54 (thirteen years ago) link
ill be honestly surprised if he does worse than nicki. maybe a gender gap in downloading lps manifests here?
somehow I am not at all surprised that it looks like the black egomaniac is going to be outsold by the wholesome white girl he shamed on national television
― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:55 (thirteen years ago) link
well to be fair she was selling more than he ever has even before the vmas thing
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:59 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah markers is trippin -- 'speak now''s first week numbers are the highest since carter III & will probably be the most for another few years or so
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:00 (thirteen years ago) link
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 3:49 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark
i don't think this is a retreat btw -- people have always been enamored w/ this kind of stuff
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:01 (thirteen years ago) link
how many copies did graduation sell? im seriously vv surprised hes supposedly going to sell so many fewer copies of this than speak now
― markers, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:03 (thirteen years ago) link
wikipedia sez 2,166,000
in the us
holy shit, alright, yeah, fearless had 6 mil + in the US, discussion over
― markers, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:04 (thirteen years ago) link
Why is that so surprising to you markers? Genuinely curious. I would have thought it'd be pretty obvious that T-Swift was going to obliterate pretty much everyone right now.
― "I am a fairly respected poster." (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:06 (thirteen years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, November 23, 2010 2:01 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark
yeah i know. was mentally framing that wr2 popism.
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:08 (thirteen years ago) link
I would have thought it'd be pretty obvious that T-Swift was going to obliterate pretty much everyone right now.
― "I am a fairly respected poster." (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 2:06 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
also obvious that kanye never really has been a massive pop star as measured by sales/hits. but his brand is "massive pop star" and apparently that's enough.
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:10 (thirteen years ago) link
if selling almost 20 million albums doesn't make you a massive pop star, I'm not sure what does
― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:12 (thirteen years ago) link
also obvious that kanye never really has been a massive pop star as measured by sales/hits.
this is also wrong
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:13 (thirteen years ago) link
depends on your metric. none of his albums have sold half what Eminem or 50 Cent's biggest albums sold, but he still obviously is a pretty big deal.
― some dude, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:16 (thirteen years ago) link
― "I am a fairly respected poster." (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:06
i dont really follow album sales at all! but i guess i feel like kanye is at least as famous, if not more so, than taylor and that he was probably on her level saleswise too? but i was obviously totally wrong
― markers, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:17 (thirteen years ago) link
Eminem didn't even score back to back #1's until this year.
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:17 (thirteen years ago) link
and this isn't gonna sell that much more than nicki's album apparently,
this is way more surprising than the t-swift comparison
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:18 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah a lot of people who don't follow country or adult contempo radio or read all the chart numbers barely had an inkling of who Swift was or that she was considered famous before the Kanye thing -- she definitely doesn't cut across as many youth culture demographics as he does, seems less visible overall
― some dude, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:18 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm still playing wait-and-see on the sales this week, i do find it somewhat hard to believe that Kanye isn't going to sell considerably more than Nicki
― some dude, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:19 (thirteen years ago) link
According to Soundscan / Nielsen both 'graduation' and '808s and a heartbreak' were the #7 best selling albums of 2007 and 2009 respectively. Can't find the exact sales figures but it's a pretty impressive feat.
http://en-us.nielsen.com/content/dam/nielsen/en_us/documents/pdf/Press%20Releases/2007/December/The%20Nielsen%20Company%20Issues%20Top%20Ten%20U.S.%20Lists%20for%202007.pdf
http://en-us.nielsen.com/content/dam/nielsen/en_us/documents/pdf/Press%20Releases/2009/December/The%20Nielsen%20Company%20Issues%20Top%20Ten%20U.S.%20Lists%20for%202009.pdf
depends on your metric. none of his albums have sold half what Eminem or 50 Cent's biggest albums sold, but he still obviously is a pretty big deal.― some dude
― some dude
Erm... actually:
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/2007/09/18/2007-09-18_report_kanye_west_worth_more_than_50_cen.html
(he also outsold eminem on 2009 according to the nielsen report I link to above)
― Moka, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:20 (thirteen years ago) link
for the lazy:
Top 10 Albums – thru Dec 2, 20071HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL 2SOUNDTRACK2DAUGHTRYDAUGHTRY3LINKIN PARKMINUTES TO MIDNIGHT4HANNAH MONTANA 2: MEET MILEY CYRUSSOUNDTRACK5FERGIEDUTCHESS6EAGLESLONG ROAD OUT OF EDEN7KANYE WESTGRADUATION8NICKELBACKALL THE RIGHT REASONS9AKONKONVICTED10JOSH GROBANNOELSource: Billboard 200 / Nielsen SoundScanNote: Data from Jan 1 – Dec 2 2007. Traditionally, album sales see significant increases during the holidays.Top 10 Albums 20091 Fearless Taylor Swift2 I am…Sasha Fierce Beyonce3 Dark Horse Nickelback4 Twilight Soundtrack5 Hannah Montana: The Movie Soundtrack6 Circus Britney Spears7 808s & Heartbreak Kanye West8 The Fame Lady Gaga9 Relapse Eminem10 The E.N.D. The Black Eyed PeasSource: Billboard 200 / The Nielsen CompanyNote: Data from Billboard issue dates Dec 6, 2008 issue through November 28, 2009(sales data from Nov. 17, 2008 through November 15, 2009).
1HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL 2SOUNDTRACK2DAUGHTRYDAUGHTRY3LINKIN PARKMINUTES TO MIDNIGHT4HANNAH MONTANA 2: MEET MILEY CYRUSSOUNDTRACK5FERGIEDUTCHESS6EAGLESLONG ROAD OUT OF EDEN7KANYE WESTGRADUATION8NICKELBACKALL THE RIGHT REASONS9AKONKONVICTED10JOSH GROBANNOEL
Source: Billboard 200 / Nielsen SoundScanNote: Data from Jan 1 – Dec 2 2007. Traditionally, album sales see significant increases during the holidays.
Top 10 Albums 2009
1 Fearless Taylor Swift2 I am…Sasha Fierce Beyonce3 Dark Horse Nickelback4 Twilight Soundtrack5 Hannah Montana: The Movie Soundtrack6 Circus Britney Spears7 808s & Heartbreak Kanye West8 The Fame Lady Gaga9 Relapse Eminem10 The E.N.D. The Black Eyed Peas
Source: Billboard 200 / The Nielsen CompanyNote: Data from Billboard issue dates Dec 6, 2008 issue through November 28, 2009(sales data from Nov. 17, 2008 through November 15, 2009).
― Moka, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:22 (thirteen years ago) link
xpost: sorry I just saw that you meant their biggest albums.
I meant exactly what I said: Kanye's biggest albums (the first 2, which sold 3 million each in the U.S.) haven't sold half of what Eminem's biggest album (MMLP, 9 million) or 50's biggest album (GRODT, 7 million) have sold.
xpost right, yeah
― some dude, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:25 (thirteen years ago) link
It seems that people under 14 and over 40 are the only ones really buying music anymore.
― Moka, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:26 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah a lot of people who don't follow country or adult contempo radio or read all the chart numbers barely had an inkling of who Swift was or that she was considered famous before the Kanye thing -- she definitely doesn't cut across as many youth culture demographics as he does, seems less visible overall― some dude, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 4:18 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark
― some dude, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 4:18 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark
i still have yet to hear a taylor swift song knowingly
― BIG MUFFIN (gbx), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:27 (thirteen years ago) link
well, kanye's done 3 mil per album in the US, with not much more around the world - up until 808s, which only did 2 mil US. not saying he's not a big deal, but he's not up there among the very biggest sellers of his era. otoh, he's running very close behind. again, this isn't to suggest that he isn't a star, isn't deserving, but rather that the supposed inevitability of MBDTF's ecstatic reception is a little strange.
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:28 (thirteen years ago) link
Hmm...certainly by the end of 2009 and start of 2009 the Fearless singles guaranteed someone somewhere had heard something by Swift. I was one of them; I'd barely heard "Tim McGraw" in 2006 or 2007.
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:29 (thirteen years ago) link