so deej argues that these two aspects -- an ambitious album as an artistic work & an ambitious album as, essentially, a gesture of pop-cultural pertinence -- are "inseparable"; I'm internally conditioned to have deep suspicions of any assertion that content is inseparable from anything, ever, that smacks of discredited late-90s crit-theory claims to me
i dont think they're ALWAYS inseparable, but when kanye is a transmedia figure like he is, how can they not be? its a celeb album
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:10 (thirteen years ago) link
RIP Good Ass Job
― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:11 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah i'm kinda chasing my own tail here i think
― BIG MUFFIN (gbx), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:11 (thirteen years ago) link
deep suspicions of any assertion that content is inseparable from anything, ever, that smacks of discredited late-90s crit-theory claims to me
!!!
― max, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:11 (thirteen years ago) link
context is totally affecting how we even argue about this!
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:11 (thirteen years ago) link
there is a power vid? i must have missed that, my bad.
― wheezy f baby (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:12 (thirteen years ago) link
they're not inseparable, they're just both present, is my argument - there's a narrative that comes with the album. maybe they're difficult to separate out during the release week, but it's not really asking much of a critic or commenter to separate all that out, I don't think
― aerosmith: the acid house years (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:12 (thirteen years ago) link
finally a rapper has captured the spirit of tumblr
― surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:12 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L53gjP-TtGE
― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:13 (thirteen years ago) link
called good ass job and has a bear on the cover in /my/ itunes anyway
― mo loko (cozen), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:13 (thirteen years ago) link
i know i already said this but i could easily see this exact same album being called Good Ass Job and having a bear on the cover.
AND it would be just as big a deal w/the public and critics if that was the case
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:10 PM (43 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
it would get great reviews just like his other albums, but it wouldn't be a 5 star 10/10 album, was my argument. My Beautiful Dark Twisted Naked Phoenix On The Couch Fantasy is the "weird" album everyone's decided belongs on Mt. Olympus.
― some dude, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:13 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah, see, the thing is is that the context is the ONLY thing we're talking about right now!
― BIG MUFFIN (gbx), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:13 (thirteen years ago) link
― some dude, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:13 PM (31 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
dude this is some mind-reading fanfic horseshit
― max, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:14 (thirteen years ago) link
mainly I was just gunnin for the triple-stonk from max here, got what I wanted & thankful for it, gotta get back to work now
― aerosmith: the acid house years (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:14 (thirteen years ago) link
but "context is everything" and "the framing is inseparable from the art" isn't a particularly interesting things in themselves, they apply to any pop star of a certain stature - they apply to taylor swift, lady gaga, nicki minaj - it's about HOW the framing and the content work together.
i mean, i think nicki minaj is a super-interesting artist and character and pop culture figure, and that framing totally affects pink friday, but it doesn't stop pink friday itself from being a kinda average and not especially interesting cop-out for half its length. it's exactly the same deal with kanye, except w/different signifiers, and the dullness extended across the whole of the album.
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:14 (thirteen years ago) link
not really? i mean i don't think this album is better than Graduation, and Graduation's "great but not OMG AMAZING MASTERPIECE" reviews were more appropriate to its quality partly because it was just kind of presented as oh another Kanye album with a little bit of new ideas but mostly the Kanye you already know. (xpost to max)
― some dude, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:16 (thirteen years ago) link
so you guys dont like the framing. how is that affecting your pure, unhindered views of the music?
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:16 (thirteen years ago) link
i don't feel strongly about the framing either way! and i'm not saying my view of the music is more "pure" than anyone else's! i just don't especially like the music!
― some dude, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:17 (thirteen years ago) link
― some dude, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:16 AM (13 seconds ago) Bookmark
this sounds a lot more ambitious, a lot further afield, a lot more about kanye than about songs, a lot more personal, a lot more biographically driven, more star-studded, there are a whole bunch of other reasons why this would get more critical attention
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:17 (thirteen years ago) link
― some dude, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:17 AM (22 seconds ago) Bookmark
neither do i, but we're disagreeing about something, right?
EVERY one of these apart from "star-studded" applies to 808s!
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:18 (thirteen years ago) link
what i'm saying is i care more about the drums sounding kind of weak here and there or the rhymes at times being poorly written or obnoxiously delivered. but those details don't seem to bother the reviewers who write 800 words about Kanye's career and his twitter and one or two paragraphs about individual songs.
― some dude, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:18 (thirteen years ago) link
this sounds a lot more ambitious, a lot further afield, a lot more about kanye than about songs, a lot more personal, a lot more biographically driven, more star-studded, there are a whole bunch of other reasons why this would get more critical attention― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:17 AM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:17 AM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark
critical attn, sure, but critical accolades?
― BIG MUFFIN (gbx), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:19 (thirteen years ago) link
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:18 AM (7 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
except that was 'weirder', less of an event record & more of a left turn
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:19 (thirteen years ago) link
― some dude, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:16 PM (52 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
ok? i mean im sure you think that! but its a weak argument--we wont ever actually know how much the title of this album mesmerized ryan dombal vs "good ass job"
― max, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:19 (thirteen years ago) link
Sure, but 808s IS a better album than this. IMO.
― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:20 (thirteen years ago) link
well, Dombal would lobby for every Kanye album to get a 10, i'm sure, this is just the time he got the greenlight for it.
― some dude, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:20 (thirteen years ago) link
i should probably bow out of this until i actually hear the album, but frankly the expectation that i ought to find this album important ambitious and interesting is already making it seem like a drag
― BIG MUFFIN (gbx), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:20 (thirteen years ago) link
― BIG MUFFIN (gbx), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:19 AM (18 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
lames like lame stuff? ppl be loving celebrity culture? anyone vaguely art-y gets artiste plaudits. not rlly surprising! esp when he's managed to deliver a record w a context of 'art' that papers over any 'flaws' (& encourages/embraces them) in the name of said art
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:21 (thirteen years ago) link
gbx, this album is neither as good as the rhapsodic reviews or as bad as the pans; it's basically an expectation-satisfying Kanye album with a couple of amazing tracks and a couple of really, really terrible ones and most of the material on it will earworm you to death
― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:23 (thirteen years ago) link
this, we agree on
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:23 (thirteen years ago) link
i think this is way better than 808s & i dont even think this is that good!
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:23 (thirteen years ago) link
― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:23 AM (31 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
generally agree with this except I think most of the tracks are at least good and the worst tracks are at the end so it's easy to avoid them
also 808s was pretty boring
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:24 (thirteen years ago) link
might have to poll 808s vs the xx...
the material on it will earworm you to death
Runaway has been doing this to me today FUCK U KANYE
― Noel 1 Kanye 10.0 (blueski), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:25 (thirteen years ago) link
I'd put both 808s and Late Registration over this; it's about on par with Graduation for me
― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:26 (thirteen years ago) link
lames like lame stuff? ppl be loving celebrity culture? anyone vaguely art-y gets artiste plaudits. not rlly surprising! esp when he's managed to deliver a record w a context of 'art' that papers over any 'flaws' (& encourages/embraces them) in the name of said art― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:21 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:21 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
haha i dont know why, but for some reason this post makes me think that really everyone was sorta on the same page for the last little bit here.
― BIG MUFFIN (gbx), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:26 (thirteen years ago) link
if pfork hadnt given this a 10 im not so sure ppl would be remembering 808s so fondly
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:27 (thirteen years ago) link
if i didn't strongly dislike this album i wouldn't have something to compare 808s favorably to
― some dude, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:28 (thirteen years ago) link
if pfork hadnt given this a 10 im not so sure ppl would be remembering the phantom menace so fondly
― Noel 1 Kanye 10.0 (blueski), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:29 (thirteen years ago) link
seriously though, this is me being a big music nerd but the whole "Hell of a Life" polyrhythm 2 against 3 against whatever tuple that arpeggio sample is in is making me freak the fuck out
which "ppl" are you talking about here, because I have been a massive booster of 808s since its release
― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:29 (thirteen years ago) link
also I think people are really misusing the terms "minimalist" and "maximalist"
― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:31 (thirteen years ago) link
i was just trying to fit in
― BIG MUFFIN (gbx), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:32 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm a maximalist, think his gawker posts are pretty good
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:33 (thirteen years ago) link
max i'ma list
― Noel 1 Kanye 10.0 (blueski), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:34 (thirteen years ago) link
― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:29 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
not u then...but the attitude towards this record was far more favorable on ilx until that review dropped
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:35 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean, al wasnt gonna like it either way
dont get me wrong
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:36 (thirteen years ago) link
ok i just STOLE this
― BIG MUFFIN (gbx), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:36 (thirteen years ago) link
okay the Chris Rock skit works a lot better the second time around because I know how long it is
― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:39 (thirteen years ago) link
also "Lost in the World" could be called many things but I don't get how it's boring
― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 17:44 (thirteen years ago) link