should i give the grateful dead a chance?

the *stylistic*, sonic sensibility, I meant, even if convivial lyrics make her a little uncomfortable (so why do that song)

(I've never seen Verlaine or Lloyd crediting Garcia or live VU or Creedence jams, but think V did mention John Cippolina, and Blues Project-era Danny Kalb's sick solos---whatever; it's more a matter of great mynds rising to converge)

yeah would be shocking if verlaine liked the Dead (don't know about the rest of the guys in the band), but he did like Quicksilver (and Moby Grape) so there's definitely some west coast psych influence there. occasionally on some "other one"s I get a tightly wound Television vibe. think it was greil marcus who derisively called Television the Dead of the CBGB scene.

1972.08.27 and 1970.02.13 are my standbys. i also like 1972.05.11 and anything else from '72 as well as 1970.05.08, but the latter is a truly abysmal audience recording and therefore i wouldn't recommend it to anyone. never got into the '68/'69 ones.

Ha, I think that might've been Dave Marsh -- he likened Verlaine's playing to Garcia's in the RS Record Guide.

xp

maybe marcus borrowed it from marsh -- http://www.furious.com/perfect/marcus.html
i think lester bangs said something to that effect too. they must've all had a conference call about it.

Maybe that was part of their appeal for xgau, since he liked the Dead (and dig into his site's archives for late 60s discussions of the Dead, incl. when they finally started playing the East Coast, and supposedly wanted to put Pigpen and Weir into a subsidiary band...also early LP reviews etc---he covers some shows I found on archive.org)

yeah i think christgau says those fillmore east shows in the early 70s were the best shows he's ever been to?

I know I've read Verlaine extol Lifetime and have seen QMS cited by Television. Wasn't there something about the timing of them splitting tied into QMS's timing.

As to truly stunning Dead sets May 70 and August 68 are both great periods. I think there must be a stretch in 69 but can't think. Possibly February.

& Veneta 72 is pretty outstanding.

For some older rock listeners (and I guess younger too, if you count *self-proclaimed* punks, who didn't come along 'til the mid-70s, and subsequent s-p and other ATDD, caffeinated, phonehead, and/or just-plain-antsy individuals), the whole idea of songs getting long was disconcerting. As a kiddie who was still starting to really (kind of) pay attention to hits on the radio, I was startled to discover the *long* version of "Light My Fire," even before I got to "The End." And being expected to write about this long-ass jam compared to that long-ass jam, impressionistic and/or technical descriptions of approximately infinite guitar solos? Even much later, more wide-ranging editors have been known to ditch such things, lemmetellya.
So can see why Marcus and Marsh and Bangs (who did like his Horrible Noise jazz) could get put off (never saw those guys in Musician or 90s guitar mags,) though young xgau worked it in (tended to summarize though, I think).

And it's not just the writers and editors, of course. They can try, but for instance, in the Voice, rather than a guitar mag, a rock writer-musician friend of mine provided a very concise breakdown of a math-rock band's approach, and even mathless me could understand it. But a self-proclaimed fan of the band wrote a letter, published of course, "Boo, no fun, buzzkill lecture!" And that was the end of that kind of coverage, for quite a while, I think.

yeah i think bangs in particular did not like that television (or at least Verlaine) appeared to *gasp* take themselves seriously.
anyway, there are a few 90s/00s Television live things where they actually do sound pretty Dead-ish.

I went to see Television live circa 2004 and I was digging the more 'improvised' bits, a little bored by the more disengaged run-throughs of staple material, and I thought to myself, well who else sound like this but have more improvised bits, and I semi-reluctantly decided upon the Dead, chiefly because of the similarities between Verlaine and Garcia's actual gtr sound, at certain periods of their playing (holy trinity completed by Richard Thompson, who again can sound like JG or vice versa at times (shared folkie b/ground)) It was Live/Dead, and esp the 'Dark Star' on that got me on a pretty intense Dead-hunting period, which has died away now, tho' I still love listening to primo Dead and would always rec LD as the best place to start for aspiring Dheads. Anyway, fwiw, here's some of my faves, easy-to get Dark Stars:

*Dick's Picks #4 - Fillmore East 13/2/1970
*Dick's Picks #19 - Fairground Arena Oklahoma City 10/19/73
*Ladies and Gentlemen #19 - Fillmore East 4/28/71 (not an especially long or cosmic DS but it's the start of a sequence of some of the Dead's best music - Dark Star>St Stephen>Not Fade Away>Goin' Down the Road Feeling Bad>Not Fade Away)
*Europe 72: The Lyceum London 5/25/1972

you guys are the best.

And being expected to write about this long-ass jam compared to that long-ass jam, impressionistic and/or technical descriptions of approximately infinite guitar solos? Even much later, more wide-ranging editors have been known to ditch such things, lemmetellya.
So can see why Marcus and Marsh and Bangs (who did like his Horrible Noise jazz) could get put off (never saw those guys in Musician or 90s guitar mags,) though young xgau worked it in (tended to summarize though, I think).

Marsh loved Sun Ra (but didn't write about him) and the MC5's shows (which he did write about), so lengthy pieces were never a problem for him. His main gripe (or one of many) with the Dead was that their renditions of things like "Johnny B. Goode" were decidedly limp. In the second (blue) RS guide he gave grudging praise to Live/Dead and Europe '72.

And I did see Marsh's byline in a '90s guitar mag exactly once: a late-'96 issue of Guitar World, where he gave a five-star review to the Who's Live at the Isle of Wight.

I know yall aren't helpless, but can't resist linking xgau's page of Dead album reviews---I don't agree with all of it (haven't heard alll of these, for one thing), but I can dig where he's coming from, to say the least (at very botton of said page: links to a bunch of his early newspaper articles about the Dead)
http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_artist2.php?id=1445

plus a (relative) few Garcia sidetrips:
http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?name=Jerry+Garcia

i'm only fitfully into the dead, for the longest time I only really liked one show (pembroke pines 77, the version of "sugaree" made total sense of the dead all at once) but i'm listening to veneta 72 aka sunshine daydream which I understand is a classic, well-known show but I just wanted to register how much I think it rules, especially the total jazz fusion center of "playing in the band"

quite possibly my favorite Dead show. No "Dark Star" compares and yes, totally agree about the excellent version of PITB. Keith added so much, doesn't get nearly the respect he deserves.

Check out the 3 or 4 Berkeley shows from the run just prior to that Oregon show. More of the same awesomeness.

Check out the 3 or 4 Berkeley shows from the run just prior to that Oregon show. More of the same awesomeness.

Check out the 3 or 4 Berkeley shows from the run just prior to that Oregon show. More of the same awesomeness.

More of the same awesomeness.

Remember when awesome and awful meant the same thing?

You want more of the same awesomeness? Check out the 3 or 4 Berkeley shows from the run just prior to that Oregon show.

That Sunshine Daydream box was a great buy since from extended listening yes that is a peak performance. Plus it came with the much delayed official release of the film.
From other periods when they're hot they're hot for a while. So you get August 68, February 69, May 70. Not sure what else is around the time of Veneta other than that Berkeley is there anything else US, European tour isn't that far away timewise. Is Veneta 27/8/72 or 28/7 or something?

I feel like we're all on more or less the same page re those Berkeley shows. Awesomeness

very awesome, yes. and yes, sunshine daydream is a great deal, and has to be the best thing for a Dead newbie, i think.
i'm doing this summer of dead thing again -- in reverse, god help me! http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/tagged/summer-of-dead
if anyone is inspired to write something get in touch at tywilc @ gmail.com -- got a few random guest submissions coming up.

Okay lol at deadlistening.com re: Berkeley '72:

And in listening to the more exploratory expanses of this fine show I am continually brought to the state of mind where my eyes can no longer perceive the physical space around me. The vivid imagery which floods my vision while my eyes are closed tight suffuses everything continually. And in that vision where light burns around shadows and perspective swims in a sea of joy, I am repeatedly exposed to a musical journey which seems to travel through a landscape constructed of a Mandelbrot set fractal.

EXACTLY

If that's not awesomeness what the fuck is

okay but this sugaree song here is pretty incredible eh

NO! I've been trying every five years or so since I went to boarding school and had to hear it every where I went...I have gone in each time with open ears, never ever regretted not liking them. AVOID!

well, you're missing out on a musical journey which seems to travel through a landscape constructed of a Mandelbrot set fractal, man

prefer the julia set tbh

BOB WEIR SIGNS TO COLUMBIA/LEGACY RECORDINGS, SET TO RELEASE BLUE MOUNTAIN SEPTEMBER 30

FIRST ALBUM OF ENTIRELY NEW MATERIAL IN 30 YEARS

WEIR PARTNERS WITH PRODUCER JOSH KAUFMAN,
JOSH RITTER AND AARON DESSNER, BRYCE DESSNER
AND SCOTT DEVENDORF

FALL “CAMPFIRE TOUR” DATES CONFIRMED

​
For the first time in ten years, Bob Weir will release a new solo record, Blue Mountain, on September 30—marking his debut project since signing with Columbia/Legacy Recordings, a division of Sony Music Entertainment. The release is his first album of entirely original material in thirty years and will be available on CD, 2LP vinyl, and digital. Producer Josh Kaufman partnered with Weir on the album, which features songwriting collaboration with Josh Ritter and performances from guitarists Aaron Dessner and Bryce Dessner and bassist Scott Devendorf. Blue Mountain is now available for pre-order on CD HERE and digital HERE. Weir will be performing in support of the album this fall on his “Campfire Tour.” Pre-sale tickets will be available on August 9 at 10:00am local time and public on-sale on August 12 at 10:00am local time here: www.bobweir.net. Every online ticket order comes with one (1) physical CD of Bob Weir's new album Blue Mountain. A limited amount of Enhanced Experiences are available throughout the tour including two premium tickets in the first 2 rows, an invitation to attend soundcheck and more. For more information visit HERE See below for a full list of dates.

Drawing on his earlier experiences working on a ranch in Wyoming as a teenager, Weir joined with Ritter, the Dessners, Devendorf and Kaufman to celebrate those times with twelve new songs.

Adam Block, President of Legacy Recordings notes, “We’re so pleased to welcome Bob Weir to the Columbia/Legacy family and absolutely thrilled to partner with him to share these stories and this beautiful record with the world.”

Photo credit: Jay Blakesburg
The album was recorded at a variety of locations on both coasts, including studios in Woodstock, NY and San Rafael, CA over the spring and fall of 2015. A host of fellow musicians appear alongside Weir on Blue Mountain including Ray Rizzo (drums, harmonium, harmonica, backup vocals), Joe Russo (drums), Jon Shaw (upright bass, piano), Rob Burger (keyboard, accordion, tuned percussion), Sam Cohen (electric guitar and pedal steel), Nate Martinez (guitars, harmonium, backup vocals), Jay Lane (drums, vocals), Robin Sylvester (upright bass, vocals, hammond organ) and Steve Kimock (Lapsteel). Providing backup vocals are The Bandana Splits, comprised of Annie Nero, Lauren Balthrop and Dawn Landes. Kaufman produced the record with engineering by Dan Goodwin.

Weir is one of the founding members of the legendary Grateful Dead, which received a Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award in 2007. The band also appeared on Forbes’ list of top-grossing entertainers and in the early ‘90s were the highest-grossing concert attraction in the U.S. Since establishing the band in 1965, Weir has become one of rock’s finest and most distinctive rhythm guitarists. Earlier this year he received the inaugural Les Paul Spirit Award. Weir has also performed with many other acts including The Other Ones, Kingfish, Bob Weir Band, Bobby and the Midnites, Scaring the Children, Ratdog and Furthur, co-led by former Grateful Dead bassist Phil Lesh. His first solo album, Ace, was released in 1972. Most recently, Weir has been performing with Dead & Company, which features Grateful Dead members Mickey Hart and Bill Kreutzmann along with Grammy-winner John Mayer, Oteil Burbridge and Jeff Chimenti.
2014 saw the release of “The Other One: The Long, Strange Trip of Bob Weir,” created by Netflix which premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival. Additionally, an Amazon film series based on Steve Parish’s 2003 book, “Home Before Midnight: My Life on the Road with the Grateful Dead,” is currently in development with Weir serving as an executive producer.

BLUE MOUNTAIN TRACK LIST
1. Only A River
2. Cottonwood Lullaby
3. Gonesville
4. Lay My Lily Down
5. Gallop On The Run
6. Whatever Happened To Rose
7. What The Ghost Towns Know
8. Darkest Hour
9. Ki-Yi Bossie
10. Storm Country
11. Blue Mountain
12. One More River To Cross

BOB WEIR LIVE
October 7—Marin County Civic Center—San Rafael, CA
October 8—Fox Theater­—Oakland, CA
October 10—The Wiltern—Los Angeles, CA
October 12—Tower Theatre—Upper Darby, PA
October 14 & 15—Kings Theatre—Brooklyn, NY
October 16—The Capitol Theatre—Port Chester, NY
October 19—Ryman Auditorium—Nashville, TN

Estimated Prophet is all time but generally not a Bob fan

Josh fucking Ritter?

Yeah! All I know, other than his Dead tracks: Ace was unexpectedly good, though not perfect, Heaven Help The Fool was not as good, but he had some good songs w The Other Ones for inst---so I still kinda wonder...

Wimmels what's yr beef w/Ritter? he's all right.

just want to say that the instrumental sections on 'sugaree' on dicks picks vol 3 are so very wonderful

although i read a recent jesse jarnow bit that suggested the jams always drove towards some big crescendo when mickey hart rejoined which i can kinda see. oh well

yeah, 76-77 is when they started doing 10+-minute sugarees I think -- i love those.
i have some weird concept of doing a cover of "heroin" in the style of "sugaree". not sure why.

btw the summer of dead rolls on -- tarfumes just contributed an excellent guest post: http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/tagged/summer-of-dead
i'm listening to some 1985 show as we speak, there are like laser synth sounds on shakedown street.

we just moved to a new neighborhood and met some major deadheads who live up the street, they painted a whole dead scene with bears and terrapins and the europe 72 boot on their side fence. they live next to railroad tracks so of course put up a large "terrapin station" sign on their garage. i've had a steal your face sticker on my car for a while and when i introduced our selves the dude was like "oh cool we've been wanting to meet you" lol

#mellowslow

and here's the grateful dead covering robyn hitchcock in 1988

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWaJUpB6-Us

haha, yeah that is so random. it's almost pretty good ...

OK, that's some names-out-of-a-hat shit. Digging it (and the band seems to know the song...somewhat!)

wish somebody had taped their cover of "wading through a ventilator"