show etiquette

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so i got hardmanned at a Girls show tonight ()

so anyway this dude & girl standing in front of me were talking during the songs, like shouting into each others ears -- real stupid conversation shit -- a foot from my face, and it was kind of throwing off my whole vibe. so after like four songs i said "if you guys are gonna talk during every song, do you think you could go back to the bar" (with a little snark) and he stared me down all hardman style like he was mike tyson. anyway, i don't go to shows ALL that much, especially ones that are like <200 people, and i'm not sure if i was being a dick for asking them to stfu or if it's kind of people's way of expressing that their not digging the band and i should just stfu and move.

i ended up moving because lol @ the idea of me fighting someone, but who was in the wrong?

*all rise for judge judy*

jacka in the box (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 06:23 (5 years ago) Permalink

It's because you were at a Girls show.

Kat Bee, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 06:23 (5 years ago) Permalink

y'all can rate how bitchmade i am on a scale of 1-10 if you'd like, but i just want to know if i'm right or wrong

yeah see like i get the whole "lol this band sucks anyway" but like, why even go to the show?

jacka in the box (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 06:28 (5 years ago) Permalink

i wouldnt expect anything to come from shushing people like that at a bar w/o intimidation so in that sense its 'wrong'. shouting over them so much they have to ask YOU to shutup or move: worthy of the prince

smooth move, uncle kracker (tremendoid), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 06:49 (5 years ago) Permalink

etiquette-wise, I agree that the behavior described is annoying & stupid. Personally, unless the show had designated seating, or I had camped out stage-side from the beginning of the gig to get a prime viewing spot, I would likely just shuffle my placement in the crowd a bit & let someone else deal with them.

That said, I do love the fact that manned up & got stared down at a Girls show.

Screeching Weerasethakul (Pillbox), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 07:04 (5 years ago) Permalink

sarge ilu for graemlin

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 07:06 (5 years ago) Permalink

they was wrong and a reasonable motherfucker would have moved

they was dicks

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 07:06 (5 years ago) Permalink

word-- really this thread was just so i could get on some andy rooney soapbox

jacka in the box (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 07:09 (5 years ago) Permalink

since i'm a short dude i kind of get attached to any position where i have a good sightline -- i was kind of on some costanza shit tbh but there's never really the threat of physical harm on seinfeld

jacka in the box (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 07:10 (5 years ago) Permalink


BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 07:10 (5 years ago) Permalink

yo is it true dickhead got sonned by a j0rdan after a etiquette beef??????

Screeching Weerasethakul (Pillbox), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 07:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

jacka in the box (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 07:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

i don't think you were being a dick, but people shouting into each other's ears like that during songs at a regular club show is as common as people lifting up their cell phones to take pictures. It can be annoying, but it's something that so many people do, it might come across to the people you called out, if they go to shows more often, that you're being oversensitive and/or don't get out much.

Moving is generally the best course of action, though it sucks if you have a good spot and the place is packed enough so that it's hard to find another good spot.

sarahel, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 09:07 (5 years ago) Permalink

j0rdan i don't want to live in a world where it is okay with talking loudly through a show: its so crazy rude, and shows such selfish disregard for anyone in the room who might want to hear the music, that it bums me out big time when it happens.

i also almost got in a fight, at a magnetic fields show, in such circumstances about a decade ago. this guy and two girls were singing through all the 69 Love Songs material, which was kind of annoying but i felt like a grouch for getting vexed, because hey they're just having a good time. but then they started talking loudly during the songs they didn't know, and my then-gf was getting visibly enraged, so i stood up (we were seated, they were stood behind us) and said, hey, do you mind not talking during the songs? i was real polite abt it, btw.

anyways, the guy, who seemed kind of an upper class ponce if his diction and accent were any clue, got all pouty and said, "why don't you fuck off home and listen to the record there?" which upped my vexation levels a thousandfold, and i said that since i'd bought tickets to see the show, why didn't he fuck off home and have his conversation there?

i sat down at this point, and they pretty much shut up, but between songs i could hear him lisping about how he was going to smack me at the end of the show. i don't think i've been in a real fight since i hit double figures, and thought i could probably 'take him' if it came down to it, but still didn't fancy a scrap. the show ended and i stood up, and the guy and his friends abruptly left w/out saying anything, and an old lady came up and thanked me for shutting them up, but it was a lame scene mostly.

i know, wite guy almost sonned at a mag fields show over a loud-talking beef...

preferred method is to beef w/ ned raggett (stevie), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 09:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

^had a similar experience at one of the 69 love songs shows. seemed like a bunch of people were only there to hear the one about bunny rabbits (which they loudly sang along to) and talked incessantly through the rest

trembling blue knees (electricsound), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 09:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

Talking during songs is inexcusable, as is bellowing tunelessly along (unless it's that kind of gig, y'know Pogues or suchlike). I don't know if this has got any better or worse in my many years of going to see live bands, but it certainly happens more if an artist is on an upward career curve, or is in some flavour-of-the-month phase just because the shows are full of people who aren't fans as such, or who've been dragged along etc. Bottom line though is that it's incredibly rude both to the performer(s) and other people who have paid to be there.

As noted, yr never going to meet with anything approaching a polite response if any attempt is made to shut them up. Disgusting savages, all of them.

Something else that pisses me off is when people who have been blessed with the genetic gift of tallness choose to stand directly in front of me and/or Mrs A even though we've staked a claim in a good spot early on. I'm only 5'10" so when some fucker who is well over 6 foot barges in my view is ruined. As is my mood.

Bill A, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 10:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

My enjoyment of a Tindersticks show a couple of years ago was pretty much ruined by one girl who talked loudly throughout the entire show, including the quiet songs. Stuart Staples doesn't normally say much to the audience but on this occasion he was moved at the end to say "it’s been great playing for you… except for that woman down there." But she didn't hear him. She just kept on talking.

anagram, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 10:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

genetic gift of tallness

I am five foot nothing and while I don't think this gives me an instant right to be at the front or anything (nor do I particularly want to any more, for most gigs I am at) I am amazed every gig at how people over a foot taller than me will arrive, note my presence, and then stand exactly in front of me. Happens even if the room is almost empty, though at least then they can be sidestepped (until the next lot). If they seem into the band that's one thing, but if they then get bored and chat and twitter all evening, fuck those guys

(sometimes I think indie women are shorter and less assertive than average and indie guys are taller and more oblivious than average, and curse the cruel fate that throws 10 of us and 200 of them into every gig together. this and other women-be-shopping observations are all I have to think about when I keenly arrive at a gig at the advertised door time to find that it doesn't start for 1.5 hours and it's too dark to reread the free month-old listings rag, etc)

canna kirk (a passing spacecadet), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 11:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

Back to the thread topic, those guys were jerks, don't be intimidated by them maybe going to more shows than you, most regular gig-goers I've known wd agree. Though I've never seen anything good come of a confrontation at the time, but I'd like to think they go home and think "I guess we were a bit annoying" and don't do it again. Past experience suggests not though.

(Once the hippest local band included a guy who was somehow able to get guestlisted for everything and would bellow the same injoke repeatedly at every band who came to town. So glad that guy left town.)

canna kirk (a passing spacecadet), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 11:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

you should never be made to feel like you're in the wrong by asking for a little courtesy and consideration.

m the g, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 11:19 (5 years ago) Permalink

xpost: I remember an old acquaintance telling us about the time that she and her friends were shushed at a Tindersticks gig.

"It was SO RUDE! How DARE they tell us what to do? We were at the back, so they could have just moved forwards!"

mike t-diva, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 11:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

The worst ones are when the chatter reaches critical mass, and everyone gives up and starts doing it themselves. As someone said upthread, this happens most often when the act is at the "flavour of the month" stage. I've witnessed it at Goldfrapp (around the time of "Ooh La La"), at Rodrigo Y Gabriela, and - perhaps more deservedly, because it was a ditchwater-dull show anyway - at Seasick Steve.

mike t-diva, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 12:01 (5 years ago) Permalink

a guy who was somehow able to get guestlisted for everything and would bellow the same injoke repeatedly at every band who came to town


Bill A, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 12:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

Have confronted people about this more times than I care to remember. A bit of chat is fine - it's a night out, after all; and chatting at the bar is fine - it's the bar. But talking all the way through a show when you're standing mid-crowd is unacceptable. I rarely get threatened, though, by virtue of being very tall and not at all skinny. And because by the time I tip over into telling them to be quiet, my rage is beyond containment. As a tall person, agree with those shorter than me who complain about the behaviour of tall latecomers fighting their way into the middle of the crowd regardless of who's behind me. When accompanied by someone short, I have been known to poor beer down the backs of those who come in very late and stand in front without paying any attention. Which makes me as much of an asshole as them.

ithappens, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 12:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

The situation was best handled at a Kathryn Williams show in a small stand-up venue, circa 2001, where the chatter had reached critical mass by the third song. (The same crowd had already talked right over the support slot from Turin Brakes.) The venue was jam-packed, and KW's self-admitted fear of crowds in enclosed spaces was kicking in. Between songs, a young guy in front of me motioned to KW that he wanted a word, so she asked him up on stage.

"I've got a request. Can everyone who's here to catch up with their mates over a drink please FUCK OFF DOWNSTAIRS so the rest of us can watch the show?"

Sustained applause. Total silence for the rest of the gig.

mike t-diva, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 12:17 (5 years ago) Permalink

I am v tall and try to be aware of getting in the way of shorter people, but it's often quite difficult to find anywhere to stand that isn't in someone's way. If I'm at somewhere like the Forum or Shepherd's Bush Empire I'll just stand in front of the mixing desk so there's no-one behind me.

Or I find some other tall bastard and stand behind him cos there's usually space there cos no-one else can see. But that can lead to a huge clump of lanky gits which probably just makes it worse.

But if I am there it is because I am watching the show not talking to people so pls don't hate me.

Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 12:31 (5 years ago) Permalink

Lanky gits do tend to clump, 'tis true...

mike t-diva, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 12:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

Sorry Colonel, I don't really hate the tall people. 99% of you are fine, just the ones who stand in front - I mean exactly in front like they deliberately lined up elbows, this is what makes it really odd how often it happens - of the smallest person for several metres even when there's plenty of other space, and then don't even seem interested.

I (used to) go to a lot of gigs more or less out of curiosity, so if I'm there just to see what's what and someone who likes the band wants to stand in front of me, no problem there. Though I tend to lurk near the back unless I like what I'm hearing or am really excited to see them. Actually there's often a spot at the very back where the shallower angle lets you see one or two band members between the heads, which is more than we shortarses get from most of the crowd.

canna kirk (a passing spacecadet), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 13:04 (5 years ago) Permalink

I go to tons of shows and it drives me nuts when everyone seems to be talking during the bands, but refreshingly I don't seem to see it super often -- maybe it's the shows I go to (either so small that there's not enough of the audience to out-chatter the band, or so big that the band drowns out anyone who is talking). I'd say what Jordan did was avoidable but I kinda applaud him for doing it, I totally fantasize about doing that kind of thing but never do. closest I got was at a movie once when a guy would not stop talking next to me, and I turned to him like I was going to say something important or friendly and just went 'SHUT THE FUCK UP' and amazingly he did for the rest of the movie, which was such a great moment.

goodness gracious great walls o gina (some dude), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 13:18 (5 years ago) Permalink

If you are in an assigned seat and can not move, then yeah, tell them to stfu.

If you can move, then move. always easiest first best choice.

nicky lo-fi, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 13:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

I turned to him like I was going to say something important or friendly and just went 'SHUT THE FUCK UP'

heh. I did this too, at a seated GYBE gig. the exact same words, the exact same effect.

I genuinely intended to be polite to the endlessly chattering gimps next to me, but all my pent-up rage just fell out of my face.

m the g, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 13:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

The first time Brian Wilson did Pet Sounds in London - the OPENING FUCKING NIGHT, his first involved gig here since before the old queen died and all - there were two fellas a couple of rows bag talking at normal conversational volume throughout. Finally leapt out of my seat and pleaded with them to let the music talk. One of them told me he'd been waiting 40 years for this night and I was not going to ruin it for him by making him be quiet. That he had paid for his ticket and he intended to savour every minute however he chose.
WTF do you say to people like that, who know they're ruining it for others but completely don't give any sort of a fuck?

ithappens, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 13:42 (5 years ago) Permalink

killing's too good for 'em...

preferred method is to beef w/ ned raggett (stevie), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 13:56 (5 years ago) Permalink

Typical Londoners. You wouldn't get that anywhere else in the UK.

anagram, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 13:59 (5 years ago) Permalink

Hard to know how much of an asshole one will be. I loathe bullying, so the staring-down bs just makes me want to goad them into action. The key is for them to swing, and you not be embarrassed to dodge or back off, so that it's obvious to security that those people need to be kicked out, and you get to stay. I've only accomplished that twice in 25 yrs of shows. Usually they'll back off. Another tactic is to push past them and say you figured they wouldn't mind since they don't seem into the show, ha ha. My best experiences are showing up early and staying right up front. If I come late, I hang in the back, since I'm 6'1"+. Also, it's helped that bands I've seen lately are way too loud to even attempt to talk over.

Fastnbulbous, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

I have heard people complain that they went to a gig where the band was so loud that they couldn't even have a decent conversation...

m the g, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:14 (5 years ago) Permalink

i prefer talking to people over going to concerts but its pretty lame that these people are paying $15 to talk in a loud bar

max, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

Stevie ... they were Glaswegians who'd come down to London for the opening night.

ithappens, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

last gig I went to (and I don't get to many these days) featured someone shouting I LOVE THIS SONG! repeatedly throughout about three quarters of the songs. AAAAAAAH.

FC Tom Tomsk Club (Merdeyeux), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

Ah, right. Good job you didn't try and fight them, then. Although, my name's not Stevie. xp

anagram, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:18 (5 years ago) Permalink

Sorry anagram. Misread which post I was replying to.

ithappens, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:22 (5 years ago) Permalink

I was not going to ruin it for him by making him be quiet. That he had paid for his ticket and he intended to savour every minute however he chose.

This level of selfish asshattery just boggles my brain. What a frightful human being.

At most other events (theatre, cinema, etc), you'd be able to get an attendant to give them them "you're spoiling it for other patrons" warning, but when faced with that kind of gibbering selfishness I doubt even that would work.

The biggest problem for me is that the talking itself is super distracting, then yr own irritation adds to this, THEN one's indignance and rage takes over with a final result that you're completely removed from the moment of enjoying the music, and it can take an age to get back into that mindset EVEN IF the yapping fuckwit does shut up when asked to. Which they rarely do, ime.

Bill A, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

Last year I went to see Neko Case at a seated show, and one girl in the audience was yelling shit loudly at the stage after every song -- nonsense stuff like "Neko, I want to have your baby!" to which Neko rightly responded with, "Uh, I think you're a little confused" -- until Neko finally asked her to please not ruin it for everyone else. Audience girl then called her a bitch, so Neko stopped the show and asked security to remove her, to thunderous applause.

El Poopo Loco (Pancakes Hackman), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

There was a pretty classic discussion about this here several years ago, btw, but no phrases I'm putting into the search engine ("Talking At Live Shows," etc.) are turning anything up. Maybe it was just part of a bigger thread, I'm not sure, but somebody else can find it. Definitely also delved into the phenomenon of tall people standing in front of short people at shows, fwiw.

xhuxk, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:43 (5 years ago) Permalink

Tall people look over the heads in a crowd and go "Oh look there's a hole in the crowd, nobody there!"

So they go into the spot, and see it's populated by shorter people.

And then go "oh. Oh well, it's better than over there" and STAY!

Mark G, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:45 (5 years ago) Permalink

The guy in front of you who insists on taking camera phone photos the whole time is just as annoying. I once had to watch an Animal Collective show through the camera of the jerk in front of me because it was packed and I couldn't move.

Also annoying to stand near: the freaky dancer.

Damn hippies.

Sam Weller, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 15:05 (5 years ago) Permalink

Dealt with to some extent on this thread (but apparently there was an earlier one that talked about it more, because I mention it here too):

people who doesnt like to go to shows , although they love music, and live in a place where it's available - c/d?

xhuxk, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 15:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

Last year I went to see Neko Case at a seated show, and one girl in the audience was yelling shit loudly at the stage after every song -- nonsense stuff like "Neko, I want to have your baby!" to which Neko rightly responded with, "Uh, I think you're a little confused" -- until Neko finally asked her to please not ruin it for everyone else. Audience girl then called her a bitch, so Neko stopped the show and asked security to remove her, to thunderous applause.

I actually really enjoy between song heckling, especially if it's at all witty. Though maybe this girl was just more obnoxious than anything. But if I could be disappointed in Neko case and her fans, if that were at all possible, I might be after reading this.

Mister Jim, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 19:45 (5 years ago) Permalink

I hope I never attend a show with you Master Jim. Between song heckling is almost never "witty".

you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 19:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

And even if it is, you have to choose your marks. For one thing, you don't do it after every song. For another, Neko Case?

El Poopo Loco (Pancakes Hackman), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 19:51 (5 years ago) Permalink

eh, i dunno? i mean, lots of things are "part of the experience" until they're not, y'know? norms change, it becomes understood that going around just assaulting people isn't cool or passionate or w/e. i guess we've already passed that point, since it sounds like HSB was in the majority in thinking this guy was an asshole. it just hasn't reached the point where you get kicked out for it even at seedy venues. like i think if the guy was setting off an air horn or trying to nail other people in the face with spray paint, he would be kicked out.

maybe i just feel obliged to stick up for riot grrl principles or something. there's a risk that accepting asshole dudes as "part of the experience" is on the continuum towards the show only being welcoming and feeling safe to certain people, or even being outright dangerous to others. i think the hope is that we're on the continuum away from that. like 10, 20, 30 years ago a different, i think much greater(?) quantity of asshole aggro masculine behavior was normal and part of the experience, and now it's not, or less so (?). not trying to say you're just excusing it obv!

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 7 June 2015 22:33 (5 months ago) Permalink

It may be a part of the experience, but it's one I'm growing tired of.

This guy almost knocked over a husband and wife who were deliberately tucked in the corner to avoid getting clobbered.

Obviously shit happens. When I take a collateral damage hit from a collective surge, I usually laugh about it and wear the bruises as battle scars.

This guy was not even trying to incite a mosh...he was just flailing about like it was his own private space. The lady in question SCREAMED at him and her husband almost swung on him.

Idk like...I often go to shows to throw elbows and don't usually get too up in arms about it but the dude last night just felt....diff I guess.

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Sunday, 7 June 2015 22:43 (5 months ago) Permalink

yeah, if it wasn't bro on bro aggro behavior, I would look on it a lot differently.

Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Sunday, 7 June 2015 22:44 (5 months ago) Permalink

yeah that stuff to me is all in good fun (and I like to join in often, less so now that my back is iffy). one of my fav memories was at Repulsion at Maryland Death Fest, going in a pit with guys that outweighed me by 100 pounds, getting flattened, falling in the street, cutting my knee and having blood gush from it, leading to an infection. we all laughed it about like friends afterwards and I wore my field dressing with pride.

can also be a cross-generational bit of fun - I remember starting a pit with a kid 15 years younger than me and although he could run circles around me (I'm out of shape) it was a blast. nice kid too.

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Sunday, 7 June 2015 22:52 (5 months ago) Permalink

between that and the 'press' people who kept shoving past to shoot the show right in front of us (there is no special barricade or anything),

These are even worse than the obnoxious "passionate" guys...

skip, Monday, 8 June 2015 03:59 (5 months ago) Permalink

what killed me is one of them didn't have any kind of quality equipment and was getting terrible angles so I'm like 'wtf is this *really* for'?

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Monday, 8 June 2015 04:15 (5 months ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

"...and the crowd were turning so you hear on the video they were whistling and it got very uncomfortable in the room."

Is whistling bad etiquette at concerts? I thought it signaled approval.

how's life, Tuesday, 21 July 2015 17:06 (4 months ago) Permalink

What kind of fucking show starts at 9pm sharp?

everything, Tuesday, 21 July 2015 17:40 (4 months ago) Permalink

Quaye has encountered various problems in recent years. In 2012, he was found guilty of aggravated assault. The singer also admitted possession of cannabis in 2003.

What a troubled soul.

everything, Tuesday, 21 July 2015 17:42 (4 months ago) Permalink

"I am sorry, I will not sit here and pollute my venue with bullshit"

is this guy the Yngwie of promoters or

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 01:03 (4 months ago) Permalink

"And I considered that there could be magic, so that we would get him on."

when shameless fucks bite your display name (onimo), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 13:57 (4 months ago) Permalink

Am I the only one thinking the promoter was rather brave and OTM for pulling the show? If you watch the video, you can see why.

(no offence to people) (dog latin), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 14:00 (4 months ago) Permalink

lol definitely:

example (crüt), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 15:14 (4 months ago) Permalink

"I suffer from alcoholism and stuff"

#justanirreverentcivilrightshashtagletsbecool (onimo), Thursday, 23 July 2015 21:06 (4 months ago) Permalink

hahaha. I wonder how long that riff had been going before the video begins?

everything, Friday, 24 July 2015 00:07 (4 months ago) Permalink

It says in YouTube description: video is last 5 minutes of 30 odd minute set.

koogs, Friday, 24 July 2015 04:46 (4 months ago) Permalink

What kind of fucking show starts at 9pm sharp?

― everything, Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:40 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Uh, when do gigs usually start?

(no offence to people) (dog latin), Friday, 24 July 2015 08:05 (4 months ago) Permalink

Finley Quay's second album stiffed because he's such a dick that he pissed off everyone he worked with at the label, at distribution, in radio plugging, in his management team, that no one wanted to work with him anymore. So a promoter pulling him offstage 20 years after he had a bona fide hit - not a surprise.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 24 July 2015 08:14 (4 months ago) Permalink

xpost. Last three shows I was at (Young Fathers, Owen Pallett, Spriing) all came on close to 11:30pm maybe? Maybe this is a regional thing.

everything, Friday, 24 July 2015 08:20 (4 months ago) Permalink

an american thing, yes.

uk band shows still finish around 11 due to licencing laws. which usually means a 8 pm start.

koogs, Friday, 24 July 2015 08:23 (4 months ago) Permalink

Depends on the venue; the Cavern in Exeter was(is? I'm too old to go there now!) licensed until 1am or later as a nightclub, so bands would go on at 11pm when I went to shows there.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 24 July 2015 08:25 (4 months ago) Permalink

last night, at Rockstar Mayhem Fest, the show was so undersold that they decided to make it a General Admission show. This means that everybody who bought lawn tickets were upgraded to seats/pit, etc.

I bought a pit ticket, noticed this, and shrugged. Another fan blew up on social media and is publicly and loudly demanding a refund of the difference cos she paid premium price.

idk, what are thoughts on this? my thought is the promoter doesn't owe the fan anything if he/she got exactly what she paid for, and that this type of thing happens all the time (I got upgraded to a lower bowl seat at a Meek Mill show when I purchased upper for the same reason). Live Nation almost always offers a "pay $10 and upgrade to a seat" deal the day of for shows that haven't sold out, too. It seems to be arguing "other people should have paid MORE, so reimburse me!".

while I wouldn't argue with someone giving me back money, it seems a pretty o_O demand to make if your seats weren't downgraded.

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Thursday, 30 July 2015 14:49 (3 months ago) Permalink

(note the purchase of said pit ticket was months in advance - I didn't buy day of or anything, and neither did the fan that is complaining)

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Thursday, 30 July 2015 14:51 (3 months ago) Permalink

Yeah, feel like this is sorta like if you buy something that's 30% off and next week you go back and they've knocked them down to 50% off... that's the way it goes, and you got the benefit of securing the purchase early, which probably was worth something to you.

Gorefest Frump (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 30 July 2015 16:12 (3 months ago) Permalink

i dunno, i kind of empathise but i wouldn't throw a shit-fit. if i'd spent significantly more than the people who got upgraded for free, i'd kind of feel a bit annoyed.

(no offence to people) (dog latin), Thursday, 30 July 2015 16:15 (3 months ago) Permalink

My main source of annoyance would be my area suddenly being way more crowded than it would have been otherwise, more so than the cost.

Immediate Follower (NA), Thursday, 30 July 2015 16:18 (3 months ago) Permalink

people get upgraded on flights

eat the rich

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 30 July 2015 16:51 (3 months ago) Permalink

NA that I could see - in this case, it was so undersold that the pit was like 40% full, so it didn't really make a diff.

Doctor that was exactly my thought - I got the security of knowing I had a pit ticket on the day tickets went on sale (also paid extra for a 'souveneir' ticket). so some other people spent less. who cares.

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Thursday, 30 July 2015 17:02 (3 months ago) Permalink

yeah, if the pit wasn't even full after they let everyone else in, then it's hard to fault the venue.

skip, Thursday, 30 July 2015 17:14 (3 months ago) Permalink

side note: Atlanta heat in July is nothing to fuck with. I almost passed out during the first set and my shirt was covered in a slime that, while technically was just sweat, felt like the shit in the subway in Ghostbusters 2 probably felt.

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Thursday, 30 July 2015 17:16 (3 months ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Real difficult to enjoy a show when every 30 seconds some asshole and his entourage is trying to squeeze by you. This must be the eye of the needle thing they talked about in the Bible.

Ruined Anthrax's set for me.

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Saturday, 26 September 2015 02:09 (2 months ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

what's your alls opinion about requesting to know when a specific band goes onstage? Obviously this applies mostly to shows at smaller venues, and in this instance, I'm not talking about local shows, I'm talking about national touring acts with local openers.

lots of people, me included, have asked. one promoter often posts the set times in his FB invites. many local promoters here won't give them out. One has stated the reason being "they want to promote everybody supporting all of the bands". I can appreciate what they're trying to do, to make it worth the opener's while, but I didn't buy the ticket to see the local openers...and, being a frequent concertgoer, I've often seen the locals enough to know whether I like them or not. Additionally, I have a hard time sitting through 5 sets (my mind wanders, I get tired, I drink more due to boredom, etc). it depends on my mood - some nights I do stick around for the openers, but on nights where I just left work and am mentally gassed, I often only have the energy for two bands. seems kind of lame to be held hostage to watch a band simply because I guessed wrong when they might go on.

But, I do know they want to prevent situations where the openers play and nobody is around to watch them. they also aren't under any obligation to give that information to me, either.

but sometimes I also need to know because I might have other plans earlier in that night and need to know if the headliner is going to go on before I can get there (in that case they're often more accommodating).

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Monday, 12 October 2015 02:29 (1 month ago) Permalink

I always appreciate it very much when promoters post set times. And I would bet that it's beneficial for them to do so overall. Posting that information allows people who are on the fence about going, due either to time constraints or fatigue concerns, to make an informed choice. That choice could go either way, of course, but my hunch is that you'll get more people deciding to go based on that information than deciding to stay home.

And even if some people do stay home, that could still be good for the promoter in the long term. If a concertgoer ends up having to leave without catching the headliner's full set (because they have work in the morning, or have to catch the last bus/train, etc.), or shows up too late to catch the whole thing due to earlier commitments, then they might well develop some resentment for the promoter/venue and be less likely to come to shows in the future. It may actually be in the promoter's interests to let them know they should skip this one.

JRN, Monday, 12 October 2015 04:26 (1 month ago) Permalink

I would love it if all shows posted show times. I had to really badger a venue to let me know that a band was going on at 11.30pm. If I'd gotten there at 8pm I'd have gone home fuming by 10.30 (was heavily pregnant at the time). It definitely made me wary of going to that venue in future without finding out times.

kinder, Monday, 12 October 2015 09:51 (1 month ago) Permalink

I don't give out set times on the rare occasions I set up a show with multiple artists. Most of my shows as a promoter are single artist evenings -- if there is more than one artist on the bill, either they are touring together or it's a show where all the artists and I agree that the bill works as a whole evening. Frankly, I have to fight harder for and am a little more dependent on the goodwill of the artists than the punter who just wants one out of three acts in a three hour evening. Then again, I am not putting together pop shows and am doing them in theatres and halls that aren't primarily loud stinky places.

Three Word Username, Monday, 12 October 2015 10:31 (1 month ago) Permalink

I get the impression from upthread that US shows may have more variable timings than UK ones? B/c I get a bit annoyed by the badgering of promoters for exact set times - really "there are 3/4 bands, this is the running order, doors are at 8.00 and curfew is at 11.00" is all you need to work out roughly when you should be there, any extra information will probably turn out to be wrong due to amps blowing up or touring band getting stuck on the motorway or anything else that could possibly go wrong. If it's an early show or a late show then it's essential that the promoter tells you this (like, if the doors open at 9pm and you have one act who will go on at 1am... yeah, people need to know this). Also most people assume no bands go on until half an hour after doors, so if you know you've got to get things started before that, then give warning.

Mostly my annoyance is due to a certain sort of entitlement that permeates through the typical requester's post, though. Actually having full information can be great and useful. It's just the posts all reek of "I'm only going to see my friend's band, fuck the rest of your show and all your effort, you will cater for my every whim". It reminds me of the guy who tried to barter the door price with me because he only wanted to see the first band b/c it was his mate. NO, FUCK YOU.

emil.y, Monday, 12 October 2015 12:58 (1 month ago) Permalink

US shows vary wildly. Doors could open at 8 and nobody goes on til 10 and the last act isn't done til 1:30 or whatever. I hear where TWU is coming from, but I also think kinder and others make great points - it's not unreasonable for people in all kinds of circumstances to want to be able to plan their evenings a little more precisely than a five-hour block standing on a hard floor in a loud dark place. I don't know how to reconcile that with not wanting to screw the first act, who in a three-act bill probably "needs" the show more than anybody else and will obviously be the first to get trimmed if it's a completely a la carte kind of situation. I'd like to imagine JRN is right that in the end more business and goodwill would come to the promoter who makes all information available, but even if that is the case, it doesn't help the no-name local opener playing to an empty room.

I think the most useful might just to be extremely clear about when doors open and when the first act is really, no bullshit, supposed to go on. Let people do the math for the rest if they want to.

Gorefest Frump (Doctor Casino), Monday, 12 October 2015 14:09 (1 month ago) Permalink

emil.y otm, this is what normally happens (and I quite like when you get to a venue and set times are posted up). The 11.30 show time was a bar in the UK though (not a typical 'gig venue' but does put on a lot of shows. The same bar, I turned up for another gig at like 9pm and the headliner had already been on.
I went to see a support act in the US and thought I'd stick around for the headliner, luckily I asked when they'd be on because it was like 1am.

If this was typical I'd think long and hard about buying tickets for shows. I think as long as you have rough start and finish times for the whole thing that's enough - it's when this is lacking I get pissed off - and people on really tight schedules should be able to find out about a specific act.

kinder, Monday, 12 October 2015 15:40 (1 month ago) Permalink

I contact the FIRST band on the bill via either Twitter or Facebook and ask what time they go on. They will almost always answer before showtime (I think they know for sure after soundcheck) and just count out from there. In Seattle most shows are over by 12:30 in bars/clubs and much sooner in large venues.

the higgs, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 04:01 (1 month ago) Permalink

All I got to say is dive bar metal band bills kinda suck as they always want like five bands or more to play in a night. You got to have some real mental and alcohol constitution to hang through 5-6 hours of death metal with an odd hard rock or doom metal band thrown in and still be wanting to throw down at 2am. The shit that really sucks is that the guys that live an hour or two out of town get "headlining" bill which means you are playing to a couple freaks and the sound guys dog while the local guys are home playing Halo, smoking bowls and eating nachos when your dumb ass gets to the stage.

earlnash, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 04:26 (1 month ago) Permalink


Hammer Smashed Bagels, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 04:51 (1 month ago) Permalink

I hear you. I just think I'm doing more for everyone involved by doing well-thought-out, my personal guarantee that nobody sucks shows at non-shithole venues than I would by telling people that Yob is on at 1:48 am unless Jimmy's Chicken Shack goes long but hey there are $1 drafts all night.

Three Word Username, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 09:12 (1 month ago) Permalink

i've always wondered - in the US it seems de rigueur for gigs to go on significantly past midnight. is this just in cities with reliable night-time public transport? in most of the US cities i've visited, public transport's not that great in the day let alone at night. or do people just not drink so they can drive? or do they shell out for taxis?

(always want to know the stage times myself, i'm aware they might not be exact but people have lives to plan that might not involve drinking crap overpriced beer in scuzzy gig venues to the sound of bands they don't care about) (or alternatively if i assume the headliner's on at the usual 9-9.30pm time in the UK, i don't want to get there to find they actually started at 8pm)

lex pretend, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 09:50 (1 month ago) Permalink

I was actually hoping a promoter would respond to my query cos I was genuinely curious. I mean I get it - you have to do right by the bands you book or they won't want to book. for me I just have an issue sitting through that much music in one night.

I think that's why I prefer festivals where I can pick and choose.

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 10:58 (1 month ago) Permalink

or do people just not drink so they can drive? or do they shell out for taxis?

no they pretty much just drive drunk

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 10:59 (1 month ago) Permalink

when I went to Welcome to Rockville in Jacksonville this year, I was having trouble finding my car, and I was walking along the curb. Cop that's directing traffic was like "yo man I wouldn't be walking in the street like that, most of these drivers are drunker than Hell".

I was like well then I wouldn't be much safer on the sidewalk, would I?

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 11:00 (1 month ago) Permalink

In DC most (if not all) venues post set times on twitter. Very helpful.

skip, Wednesday, 14 October 2015 18:33 (1 month ago) Permalink

Promoters here don't post set times pretty much ever, and they delay start times waiting for people to show up, which gets into a vicious circle of people not showing up til later and later because bands start later and later. Sorry, fuckers, headliner starting at 1:30 on a weekend is hard to stomach; 1:30 on a weeknight is impossible. i've pretty much stopped going out to shows now. WHERE ARE MY SLIPPERS & BATHROBE?

hardcore dilettante, Wednesday, 14 October 2015 23:59 (1 month ago) Permalink

yeah where's my bathrobe, good question

brimstead, Thursday, 15 October 2015 00:04 (1 month ago) Permalink

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