show etiquette

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so i got hardmanned at a Girls show tonight ()

so anyway this dude & girl standing in front of me were talking during the songs, like shouting into each others ears -- real stupid conversation shit -- a foot from my face, and it was kind of throwing off my whole vibe. so after like four songs i said "if you guys are gonna talk during every song, do you think you could go back to the bar" (with a little snark) and he stared me down all hardman style like he was mike tyson. anyway, i don't go to shows ALL that much, especially ones that are like <200 people, and i'm not sure if i was being a dick for asking them to stfu or if it's kind of people's way of expressing that their not digging the band and i should just stfu and move.

i ended up moving because lol @ the idea of me fighting someone, but who was in the wrong?

*all rise for judge judy*

jacka in the box (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 06:23 (5 years ago) Permalink

It's because you were at a Girls show.

Kat Bee, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 06:23 (5 years ago) Permalink

y'all can rate how bitchmade i am on a scale of 1-10 if you'd like, but i just want to know if i'm right or wrong

yeah see like i get the whole "lol this band sucks anyway" but like, why even go to the show?

jacka in the box (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 06:28 (5 years ago) Permalink

i wouldnt expect anything to come from shushing people like that at a bar w/o intimidation so in that sense its 'wrong'. shouting over them so much they have to ask YOU to shutup or move: worthy of the prince

smooth move, uncle kracker (tremendoid), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 06:49 (5 years ago) Permalink

etiquette-wise, I agree that the behavior described is annoying & stupid. Personally, unless the show had designated seating, or I had camped out stage-side from the beginning of the gig to get a prime viewing spot, I would likely just shuffle my placement in the crowd a bit & let someone else deal with them.

That said, I do love the fact that manned up & got stared down at a Girls show.

Screeching Weerasethakul (Pillbox), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 07:04 (5 years ago) Permalink

sarge ilu for graemlin

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 07:06 (5 years ago) Permalink

they was wrong and a reasonable motherfucker would have moved

they was dicks

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 07:06 (5 years ago) Permalink

word-- really this thread was just so i could get on some andy rooney soapbox

jacka in the box (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 07:09 (5 years ago) Permalink

since i'm a short dude i kind of get attached to any position where i have a good sightline -- i was kind of on some costanza shit tbh but there's never really the threat of physical harm on seinfeld

jacka in the box (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 07:10 (5 years ago) Permalink


GET ON MY LEVEL

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 07:10 (5 years ago) Permalink

yo is it true dickhead got sonned by a j0rdan after a etiquette beef??????

Screeching Weerasethakul (Pillbox), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 07:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

jacka in the box (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 07:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

i don't think you were being a dick, but people shouting into each other's ears like that during songs at a regular club show is as common as people lifting up their cell phones to take pictures. It can be annoying, but it's something that so many people do, it might come across to the people you called out, if they go to shows more often, that you're being oversensitive and/or don't get out much.

Moving is generally the best course of action, though it sucks if you have a good spot and the place is packed enough so that it's hard to find another good spot.

sarahel, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 09:07 (5 years ago) Permalink

j0rdan i don't want to live in a world where it is okay with talking loudly through a show: its so crazy rude, and shows such selfish disregard for anyone in the room who might want to hear the music, that it bums me out big time when it happens.

i also almost got in a fight, at a magnetic fields show, in such circumstances about a decade ago. this guy and two girls were singing through all the 69 Love Songs material, which was kind of annoying but i felt like a grouch for getting vexed, because hey they're just having a good time. but then they started talking loudly during the songs they didn't know, and my then-gf was getting visibly enraged, so i stood up (we were seated, they were stood behind us) and said, hey, do you mind not talking during the songs? i was real polite abt it, btw.

anyways, the guy, who seemed kind of an upper class ponce if his diction and accent were any clue, got all pouty and said, "why don't you fuck off home and listen to the record there?" which upped my vexation levels a thousandfold, and i said that since i'd bought tickets to see the show, why didn't he fuck off home and have his conversation there?

i sat down at this point, and they pretty much shut up, but between songs i could hear him lisping about how he was going to smack me at the end of the show. i don't think i've been in a real fight since i hit double figures, and thought i could probably 'take him' if it came down to it, but still didn't fancy a scrap. the show ended and i stood up, and the guy and his friends abruptly left w/out saying anything, and an old lady came up and thanked me for shutting them up, but it was a lame scene mostly.

i know, wite guy almost sonned at a mag fields show over a loud-talking beef...

preferred method is to beef w/ ned raggett (stevie), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 09:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

^had a similar experience at one of the 69 love songs shows. seemed like a bunch of people were only there to hear the one about bunny rabbits (which they loudly sang along to) and talked incessantly through the rest

trembling blue knees (electricsound), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 09:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

Talking during songs is inexcusable, as is bellowing tunelessly along (unless it's that kind of gig, y'know Pogues or suchlike). I don't know if this has got any better or worse in my many years of going to see live bands, but it certainly happens more if an artist is on an upward career curve, or is in some flavour-of-the-month phase just because the shows are full of people who aren't fans as such, or who've been dragged along etc. Bottom line though is that it's incredibly rude both to the performer(s) and other people who have paid to be there.

As noted, yr never going to meet with anything approaching a polite response if any attempt is made to shut them up. Disgusting savages, all of them.

Something else that pisses me off is when people who have been blessed with the genetic gift of tallness choose to stand directly in front of me and/or Mrs A even though we've staked a claim in a good spot early on. I'm only 5'10" so when some fucker who is well over 6 foot barges in my view is ruined. As is my mood.

Bill A, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 10:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

My enjoyment of a Tindersticks show a couple of years ago was pretty much ruined by one girl who talked loudly throughout the entire show, including the quiet songs. Stuart Staples doesn't normally say much to the audience but on this occasion he was moved at the end to say "it’s been great playing for you… except for that woman down there." But she didn't hear him. She just kept on talking.

anagram, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 10:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

genetic gift of tallness

I am five foot nothing and while I don't think this gives me an instant right to be at the front or anything (nor do I particularly want to any more, for most gigs I am at) I am amazed every gig at how people over a foot taller than me will arrive, note my presence, and then stand exactly in front of me. Happens even if the room is almost empty, though at least then they can be sidestepped (until the next lot). If they seem into the band that's one thing, but if they then get bored and chat and twitter all evening, fuck those guys

(sometimes I think indie women are shorter and less assertive than average and indie guys are taller and more oblivious than average, and curse the cruel fate that throws 10 of us and 200 of them into every gig together. this and other women-be-shopping observations are all I have to think about when I keenly arrive at a gig at the advertised door time to find that it doesn't start for 1.5 hours and it's too dark to reread the free month-old listings rag, etc)

canna kirk (a passing spacecadet), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 11:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

Back to the thread topic, those guys were jerks, don't be intimidated by them maybe going to more shows than you, most regular gig-goers I've known wd agree. Though I've never seen anything good come of a confrontation at the time, but I'd like to think they go home and think "I guess we were a bit annoying" and don't do it again. Past experience suggests not though.

(Once the hippest local band included a guy who was somehow able to get guestlisted for everything and would bellow the same injoke repeatedly at every band who came to town. So glad that guy left town.)

canna kirk (a passing spacecadet), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 11:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

you should never be made to feel like you're in the wrong by asking for a little courtesy and consideration.

m the g, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 11:19 (5 years ago) Permalink

xpost: I remember an old acquaintance telling us about the time that she and her friends were shushed at a Tindersticks gig.

"It was SO RUDE! How DARE they tell us what to do? We were at the back, so they could have just moved forwards!"

mike t-diva, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 11:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

The worst ones are when the chatter reaches critical mass, and everyone gives up and starts doing it themselves. As someone said upthread, this happens most often when the act is at the "flavour of the month" stage. I've witnessed it at Goldfrapp (around the time of "Ooh La La"), at Rodrigo Y Gabriela, and - perhaps more deservedly, because it was a ditchwater-dull show anyway - at Seasick Steve.

mike t-diva, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 12:01 (5 years ago) Permalink

a guy who was somehow able to get guestlisted for everything and would bellow the same injoke repeatedly at every band who came to town

"FREEBIRD!"?

Bill A, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 12:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

Have confronted people about this more times than I care to remember. A bit of chat is fine - it's a night out, after all; and chatting at the bar is fine - it's the bar. But talking all the way through a show when you're standing mid-crowd is unacceptable. I rarely get threatened, though, by virtue of being very tall and not at all skinny. And because by the time I tip over into telling them to be quiet, my rage is beyond containment. As a tall person, agree with those shorter than me who complain about the behaviour of tall latecomers fighting their way into the middle of the crowd regardless of who's behind me. When accompanied by someone short, I have been known to poor beer down the backs of those who come in very late and stand in front without paying any attention. Which makes me as much of an asshole as them.

ithappens, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 12:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

The situation was best handled at a Kathryn Williams show in a small stand-up venue, circa 2001, where the chatter had reached critical mass by the third song. (The same crowd had already talked right over the support slot from Turin Brakes.) The venue was jam-packed, and KW's self-admitted fear of crowds in enclosed spaces was kicking in. Between songs, a young guy in front of me motioned to KW that he wanted a word, so she asked him up on stage.

"I've got a request. Can everyone who's here to catch up with their mates over a drink please FUCK OFF DOWNSTAIRS so the rest of us can watch the show?"

Sustained applause. Total silence for the rest of the gig.

mike t-diva, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 12:17 (5 years ago) Permalink

I am v tall and try to be aware of getting in the way of shorter people, but it's often quite difficult to find anywhere to stand that isn't in someone's way. If I'm at somewhere like the Forum or Shepherd's Bush Empire I'll just stand in front of the mixing desk so there's no-one behind me.

Or I find some other tall bastard and stand behind him cos there's usually space there cos no-one else can see. But that can lead to a huge clump of lanky gits which probably just makes it worse.

But if I am there it is because I am watching the show not talking to people so pls don't hate me.

Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 12:31 (5 years ago) Permalink

Lanky gits do tend to clump, 'tis true...

mike t-diva, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 12:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

Sorry Colonel, I don't really hate the tall people. 99% of you are fine, just the ones who stand in front - I mean exactly in front like they deliberately lined up elbows, this is what makes it really odd how often it happens - of the smallest person for several metres even when there's plenty of other space, and then don't even seem interested.

I (used to) go to a lot of gigs more or less out of curiosity, so if I'm there just to see what's what and someone who likes the band wants to stand in front of me, no problem there. Though I tend to lurk near the back unless I like what I'm hearing or am really excited to see them. Actually there's often a spot at the very back where the shallower angle lets you see one or two band members between the heads, which is more than we shortarses get from most of the crowd.

canna kirk (a passing spacecadet), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 13:04 (5 years ago) Permalink

I go to tons of shows and it drives me nuts when everyone seems to be talking during the bands, but refreshingly I don't seem to see it super often -- maybe it's the shows I go to (either so small that there's not enough of the audience to out-chatter the band, or so big that the band drowns out anyone who is talking). I'd say what Jordan did was avoidable but I kinda applaud him for doing it, I totally fantasize about doing that kind of thing but never do. closest I got was at a movie once when a guy would not stop talking next to me, and I turned to him like I was going to say something important or friendly and just went 'SHUT THE FUCK UP' and amazingly he did for the rest of the movie, which was such a great moment.

goodness gracious great walls o gina (some dude), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 13:18 (5 years ago) Permalink

If you are in an assigned seat and can not move, then yeah, tell them to stfu.

If you can move, then move. always easiest first best choice.

nicky lo-fi, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 13:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

I turned to him like I was going to say something important or friendly and just went 'SHUT THE FUCK UP'

heh. I did this too, at a seated GYBE gig. the exact same words, the exact same effect.

I genuinely intended to be polite to the endlessly chattering gimps next to me, but all my pent-up rage just fell out of my face.

m the g, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 13:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

The first time Brian Wilson did Pet Sounds in London - the OPENING FUCKING NIGHT, his first involved gig here since before the old queen died and all - there were two fellas a couple of rows bag talking at normal conversational volume throughout. Finally leapt out of my seat and pleaded with them to let the music talk. One of them told me he'd been waiting 40 years for this night and I was not going to ruin it for him by making him be quiet. That he had paid for his ticket and he intended to savour every minute however he chose.
WTF do you say to people like that, who know they're ruining it for others but completely don't give any sort of a fuck?

ithappens, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 13:42 (5 years ago) Permalink

killing's too good for 'em...

preferred method is to beef w/ ned raggett (stevie), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 13:56 (5 years ago) Permalink

Typical Londoners. You wouldn't get that anywhere else in the UK.

anagram, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 13:59 (5 years ago) Permalink

Hard to know how much of an asshole one will be. I loathe bullying, so the staring-down bs just makes me want to goad them into action. The key is for them to swing, and you not be embarrassed to dodge or back off, so that it's obvious to security that those people need to be kicked out, and you get to stay. I've only accomplished that twice in 25 yrs of shows. Usually they'll back off. Another tactic is to push past them and say you figured they wouldn't mind since they don't seem into the show, ha ha. My best experiences are showing up early and staying right up front. If I come late, I hang in the back, since I'm 6'1"+. Also, it's helped that bands I've seen lately are way too loud to even attempt to talk over.

Fastnbulbous, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

I have heard people complain that they went to a gig where the band was so loud that they couldn't even have a decent conversation...

m the g, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:14 (5 years ago) Permalink

i prefer talking to people over going to concerts but its pretty lame that these people are paying $15 to talk in a loud bar

max, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

Stevie ... they were Glaswegians who'd come down to London for the opening night.

ithappens, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

last gig I went to (and I don't get to many these days) featured someone shouting I LOVE THIS SONG! repeatedly throughout about three quarters of the songs. AAAAAAAH.

FC Tom Tomsk Club (Merdeyeux), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

Ah, right. Good job you didn't try and fight them, then. Although, my name's not Stevie. xp

anagram, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:18 (5 years ago) Permalink

Sorry anagram. Misread which post I was replying to.

ithappens, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:22 (5 years ago) Permalink

I was not going to ruin it for him by making him be quiet. That he had paid for his ticket and he intended to savour every minute however he chose.

This level of selfish asshattery just boggles my brain. What a frightful human being.

At most other events (theatre, cinema, etc), you'd be able to get an attendant to give them them "you're spoiling it for other patrons" warning, but when faced with that kind of gibbering selfishness I doubt even that would work.

The biggest problem for me is that the talking itself is super distracting, then yr own irritation adds to this, THEN one's indignance and rage takes over with a final result that you're completely removed from the moment of enjoying the music, and it can take an age to get back into that mindset EVEN IF the yapping fuckwit does shut up when asked to. Which they rarely do, ime.

Bill A, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

Last year I went to see Neko Case at a seated show, and one girl in the audience was yelling shit loudly at the stage after every song -- nonsense stuff like "Neko, I want to have your baby!" to which Neko rightly responded with, "Uh, I think you're a little confused" -- until Neko finally asked her to please not ruin it for everyone else. Audience girl then called her a bitch, so Neko stopped the show and asked security to remove her, to thunderous applause.

El Poopo Loco (Pancakes Hackman), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

There was a pretty classic discussion about this here several years ago, btw, but no phrases I'm putting into the search engine ("Talking At Live Shows," etc.) are turning anything up. Maybe it was just part of a bigger thread, I'm not sure, but somebody else can find it. Definitely also delved into the phenomenon of tall people standing in front of short people at shows, fwiw.

xhuxk, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:43 (5 years ago) Permalink

Tall people look over the heads in a crowd and go "Oh look there's a hole in the crowd, nobody there!"

So they go into the spot, and see it's populated by shorter people.

And then go "oh. Oh well, it's better than over there" and STAY!

Mark G, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:45 (5 years ago) Permalink

The guy in front of you who insists on taking camera phone photos the whole time is just as annoying. I once had to watch an Animal Collective show through the camera of the jerk in front of me because it was packed and I couldn't move.

Also annoying to stand near: the freaky dancer.

Damn hippies.

Sam Weller, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 15:05 (5 years ago) Permalink

Dealt with to some extent on this thread (but apparently there was an earlier one that talked about it more, because I mention it here too):

people who doesnt like to go to shows , although they love music, and live in a place where it's available - c/d?

xhuxk, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 15:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

Last year I went to see Neko Case at a seated show, and one girl in the audience was yelling shit loudly at the stage after every song -- nonsense stuff like "Neko, I want to have your baby!" to which Neko rightly responded with, "Uh, I think you're a little confused" -- until Neko finally asked her to please not ruin it for everyone else. Audience girl then called her a bitch, so Neko stopped the show and asked security to remove her, to thunderous applause.

I actually really enjoy between song heckling, especially if it's at all witty. Though maybe this girl was just more obnoxious than anything. But if I could be disappointed in Neko case and her fans, if that were at all possible, I might be after reading this.

Mister Jim, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 19:45 (5 years ago) Permalink

I hope I never attend a show with you Master Jim. Between song heckling is almost never "witty".

you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 19:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

And even if it is, you have to choose your marks. For one thing, you don't do it after every song. For another, Neko Case?

El Poopo Loco (Pancakes Hackman), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 19:51 (5 years ago) Permalink

> b/c it was a non-smoking venue maybe

everywhere in england is, it's the law.

― koogs, Thursday, February 9, 2012 11:19 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wow didn't know this, kudos england

diln (k3vin k.), Thursday, 9 February 2012 16:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

> b/c it was a non-smoking venue maybe

everywhere in england is, it's the law.

yeah I know, I'm English too

ban this sick stunt (anagram), Thursday, 9 February 2012 16:37 (3 years ago) Permalink

the relatively new law

well, 5 years now! maybe my favourite piece of legislation of the past decade

i don't get why lex was so angry with the ppl smoking a cigarette

they didn't get it either. they were cunts

first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Thursday, 9 February 2012 17:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

i was v happy that the two women next to me joined in with me

first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Thursday, 9 February 2012 17:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

if it's against the rules, and someone complains, then they should either put it out or move elsewhere in the venue where they're not bothering anyone.

sarahell, Thursday, 9 February 2012 17:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

smoking indoors is the ultimate expression of how punk rock you are

owenf, Thursday, 9 February 2012 18:31 (3 years ago) Permalink

Where in America can you still go see a show at a smokey bar? (nb: I haven't seen a show in like 6 years).

beachville, Thursday, 9 February 2012 19:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

Maryland and Washington, D.C. have had bar/restaurant smoking bands since '07-'08, which is awesome, i sometimes forget how shitty the air in clubs used to be or that people in other states still have to put up with it

Alshipleyan Goalpostmover (some dude), Thursday, 9 February 2012 19:23 (3 years ago) Permalink

Detroit still allows smoking in bars, clubs and restaurants.

The Large Hardon Collider (Phil D.), Thursday, 9 February 2012 19:23 (3 years ago) Permalink

i went to belgium a couple of years after the england smoking ban came in, and i remember walking into a bar and feeling as though i'd been hit by a physical wall of smoke

first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Thursday, 9 February 2012 19:25 (3 years ago) Permalink

there were a few Low Life parties that were in the basement of this club that you could smoke in. Even as a smoker the novelty wore of in like 1 second.

owenf, Thursday, 9 February 2012 19:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

Interviewed Craig Finn the other day and we talked a bit about gig etiquette. He said:

There’s a weird thing as well of people who want to be front and centre whether they enjoy it or not. There was a girl in New Orleans. Her boyfriend was having the time of his life and they were front row centre. She was crying, storming off to get a reaction then coming back and crying, then being dramatically dejected and flopping down on the stage. We got between a song and I said: “You’re really distracting me. I would like for you to leave.” And the whole crowd started cheering. Then she said: “It’s his fault!” I was like, “It doesn’t look like it to me. You look like the problem.”

He was the one who dragged her along! Wasn’t it his fault?

He was fine for her to go! They probably got married. That’s my experience with those things. Those people find each other and stick together.

Viva Brother Beyond (ithappens), Thursday, 9 February 2012 20:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

2 years pass...

no tablets should be a given

i was a downy lad, and twee (stevie), Tuesday, 19 August 2014 19:06 (11 months ago) Permalink

where's peter grant and his heavies when you need them

i was a downy lad, and twee (stevie), Tuesday, 19 August 2014 19:06 (11 months ago) Permalink

Wait, people bring tablets to shows?

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 19 August 2014 19:08 (11 months ago) Permalink

Hogan's Bluff (wins), Tuesday, 19 August 2014 19:18 (11 months ago) Permalink

9 months pass...

so this fucking drunk asshole muscled his way in between me and this other guy at the front of the stage for Obituary yesterday. being in a less than stellar mood, I refused to budge because I'm tired of being bullied out of my spot. but he kept drunkenly stumbling, yelling in people's ear, and rudely jabbing people. a few times he stumbled into me and I had to shove him to get him to mind his space.

the show starts, and he starts smashing into people (whereas the mosh pit wasn't within 5 miles of where he was - he was thwacking unwitting people). I shoved him hard in anger and he shoved me back and then he crashes into the guy next to me who is HUGE and immediately tells him to fuck off and that he's going to knock his head off.

I walked away because I knew if I stayed there it was going to ruin my show. He wound up crashing into about 4 other people during the night who all told him to fuck off and even Jon Tardy looked at the situation concerned, getting distracted while he was vocalizing.

Not only did the guy not get thrown out, but one of the other dudes there asked us to "leave him alone". Like he was the victim! for being "too passionate" about the music!

between that and the 'press' people who kept shoving past to shoot the show right in front of us (there is no special barricade or anything), it was an aggravating evening that still turned out to be a great show.

I feel like in these seedier, metal or punk venues, these folks who are disruptive and aggressive get seen as "really passionate" about the music so the security/organizers won't address it because they "like their energy". Whereas there was a guy at a show two weeks ago who was outright just PUNCHING people in the moshpit. When he went to crowd surf, nobody caught him and he faceplanted.

I mean I know it's aggressive music and all but unless we're in the designated "fuck shit up" area, unless it's just an accidental surge, we should be free to mind our business, no?

grr.

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Sunday, 7 June 2015 20:26 (1 month ago) Permalink

I feel like in these seedier, metal or punk venues, these folks who are disruptive and aggressive get seen as "really passionate" about the music so the security/organizers won't address it because they "like their energy".

As someone who has been a show organizer/semi-security person at a "seedy" venue -- I don't think it has to do with "liking their energy" -- it's more like they don't want to be like aggro security people at more corporate venues. Was there any security or venue person who could even see what the dude was doing? Unless someone complains or the person is doing something that is likely to bring about actual physical injury to themself or others, it tends to be hands off.

Not to be a dick, but it's kinda part of the experience, just like $7 budweisers in plastic cups are at corporate venues, the asshole jabby oblivious dude is part of the divey metal/punk show experience.

Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Sunday, 7 June 2015 21:37 (1 month ago) Permalink

eh, i dunno? i mean, lots of things are "part of the experience" until they're not, y'know? norms change, it becomes understood that going around just assaulting people isn't cool or passionate or w/e. i guess we've already passed that point, since it sounds like HSB was in the majority in thinking this guy was an asshole. it just hasn't reached the point where you get kicked out for it even at seedy venues. like i think if the guy was setting off an air horn or trying to nail other people in the face with spray paint, he would be kicked out.

maybe i just feel obliged to stick up for riot grrl principles or something. there's a risk that accepting asshole dudes as "part of the experience" is on the continuum towards the show only being welcoming and feeling safe to certain people, or even being outright dangerous to others. i think the hope is that we're on the continuum away from that. like 10, 20, 30 years ago a different, i think much greater(?) quantity of asshole aggro masculine behavior was normal and part of the experience, and now it's not, or less so (?). not trying to say you're just excusing it obv!

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 7 June 2015 22:33 (1 month ago) Permalink

It may be a part of the experience, but it's one I'm growing tired of.

This guy almost knocked over a husband and wife who were deliberately tucked in the corner to avoid getting clobbered.

Obviously shit happens. When I take a collateral damage hit from a collective surge, I usually laugh about it and wear the bruises as battle scars.

This guy was not even trying to incite a mosh...he was just flailing about like it was his own private space. The lady in question SCREAMED at him and her husband almost swung on him.

Idk like...I often go to shows to throw elbows and don't usually get too up in arms about it but the dude last night just felt....diff I guess.

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Sunday, 7 June 2015 22:43 (1 month ago) Permalink

yeah, if it wasn't bro on bro aggro behavior, I would look on it a lot differently.

Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Sunday, 7 June 2015 22:44 (1 month ago) Permalink

yeah that stuff to me is all in good fun (and I like to join in often, less so now that my back is iffy). one of my fav memories was at Repulsion at Maryland Death Fest, going in a pit with guys that outweighed me by 100 pounds, getting flattened, falling in the street, cutting my knee and having blood gush from it, leading to an infection. we all laughed it about like friends afterwards and I wore my field dressing with pride.

can also be a cross-generational bit of fun - I remember starting a pit with a kid 15 years younger than me and although he could run circles around me (I'm out of shape) it was a blast. nice kid too.

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Sunday, 7 June 2015 22:52 (1 month ago) Permalink

between that and the 'press' people who kept shoving past to shoot the show right in front of us (there is no special barricade or anything),

These are even worse than the obnoxious "passionate" guys...

skip, Monday, 8 June 2015 03:59 (1 month ago) Permalink

what killed me is one of them didn't have any kind of quality equipment and was getting terrible angles so I'm like 'wtf is this *really* for'?

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Monday, 8 June 2015 04:15 (1 month ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

"...and the crowd were turning so you hear on the video they were whistling and it got very uncomfortable in the room."
Read more at http://www.nme.com/news/finley-quaye/86898#gZdRhYIhUYR3gz4L.99

Is whistling bad etiquette at concerts? I thought it signaled approval.

how's life, Tuesday, 21 July 2015 17:06 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

What kind of fucking show starts at 9pm sharp?

everything, Tuesday, 21 July 2015 17:40 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Quaye has encountered various problems in recent years. In 2012, he was found guilty of aggravated assault. The singer also admitted possession of cannabis in 2003.

What a troubled soul.

everything, Tuesday, 21 July 2015 17:42 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

"I am sorry, I will not sit here and pollute my venue with bullshit"

is this guy the Yngwie of promoters or

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 01:03 (1 week ago) Permalink

"And I considered that there could be magic, so that we would get him on."

when shameless fucks bite your display name (onimo), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 13:57 (1 week ago) Permalink

Am I the only one thinking the promoter was rather brave and OTM for pulling the show? If you watch the video, you can see why.

(no offence to people) (dog latin), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 14:00 (1 week ago) Permalink

lol definitely: https://youtu.be/FcdA_4FlKuw

example (crüt), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 15:14 (1 week ago) Permalink

4:13
"I suffer from alcoholism and stuff"
"Woohoo!"

#justanirreverentcivilrightshashtagletsbecool (onimo), Thursday, 23 July 2015 21:06 (1 week ago) Permalink

hahaha. I wonder how long that riff had been going before the video begins?

everything, Friday, 24 July 2015 00:07 (1 week ago) Permalink

It says in YouTube description: video is last 5 minutes of 30 odd minute set.

koogs, Friday, 24 July 2015 04:46 (1 week ago) Permalink

What kind of fucking show starts at 9pm sharp?

― everything, Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:40 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Uh, when do gigs usually start?

(no offence to people) (dog latin), Friday, 24 July 2015 08:05 (1 week ago) Permalink

Finley Quay's second album stiffed because he's such a dick that he pissed off everyone he worked with at the label, at distribution, in radio plugging, in his management team, that no one wanted to work with him anymore. So a promoter pulling him offstage 20 years after he had a bona fide hit - not a surprise.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 24 July 2015 08:14 (1 week ago) Permalink

xpost. Last three shows I was at (Young Fathers, Owen Pallett, Spriing) all came on close to 11:30pm maybe? Maybe this is a regional thing.

everything, Friday, 24 July 2015 08:20 (1 week ago) Permalink

an american thing, yes.

uk band shows still finish around 11 due to licencing laws. which usually means a 8 pm start.

koogs, Friday, 24 July 2015 08:23 (1 week ago) Permalink

Depends on the venue; the Cavern in Exeter was(is? I'm too old to go there now!) licensed until 1am or later as a nightclub, so bands would go on at 11pm when I went to shows there.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 24 July 2015 08:25 (1 week ago) Permalink

last night, at Rockstar Mayhem Fest, the show was so undersold that they decided to make it a General Admission show. This means that everybody who bought lawn tickets were upgraded to seats/pit, etc.

I bought a pit ticket, noticed this, and shrugged. Another fan blew up on social media and is publicly and loudly demanding a refund of the difference cos she paid premium price.

idk, what are thoughts on this? my thought is the promoter doesn't owe the fan anything if he/she got exactly what she paid for, and that this type of thing happens all the time (I got upgraded to a lower bowl seat at a Meek Mill show when I purchased upper for the same reason). Live Nation almost always offers a "pay $10 and upgrade to a seat" deal the day of for shows that haven't sold out, too. It seems to be arguing "other people should have paid MORE, so reimburse me!".

while I wouldn't argue with someone giving me back money, it seems a pretty o_O demand to make if your seats weren't downgraded.

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Thursday, 30 July 2015 14:49 (5 days ago) Permalink

(note the purchase of said pit ticket was months in advance - I didn't buy day of or anything, and neither did the fan that is complaining)

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Thursday, 30 July 2015 14:51 (5 days ago) Permalink

Yeah, feel like this is sorta like if you buy something that's 30% off and next week you go back and they've knocked them down to 50% off... that's the way it goes, and you got the benefit of securing the purchase early, which probably was worth something to you.

Gorefest Frump (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 30 July 2015 16:12 (5 days ago) Permalink

i dunno, i kind of empathise but i wouldn't throw a shit-fit. if i'd spent significantly more than the people who got upgraded for free, i'd kind of feel a bit annoyed.

(no offence to people) (dog latin), Thursday, 30 July 2015 16:15 (5 days ago) Permalink

My main source of annoyance would be my area suddenly being way more crowded than it would have been otherwise, more so than the cost.

Immediate Follower (NA), Thursday, 30 July 2015 16:18 (5 days ago) Permalink

people get upgraded on flights

eat the rich

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 30 July 2015 16:51 (5 days ago) Permalink

NA that I could see - in this case, it was so undersold that the pit was like 40% full, so it didn't really make a diff.

Doctor that was exactly my thought - I got the security of knowing I had a pit ticket on the day tickets went on sale (also paid extra for a 'souveneir' ticket). so some other people spent less. who cares.

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Thursday, 30 July 2015 17:02 (5 days ago) Permalink

yeah, if the pit wasn't even full after they let everyone else in, then it's hard to fault the venue.

skip, Thursday, 30 July 2015 17:14 (5 days ago) Permalink

side note: Atlanta heat in July is nothing to fuck with. I almost passed out during the first set and my shirt was covered in a slime that, while technically was just sweat, felt like the shit in the subway in Ghostbusters 2 probably felt.

Hammer Smashed Bagels, Thursday, 30 July 2015 17:16 (5 days ago) Permalink


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