The 2009 Magazine Albums Of The Year Thread For Posting Lists and Discussion.

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Christgau is a fucking idiot.

Be polite.

kornrulez6969, Friday, 25 December 2009 02:32 (fourteen years ago) link

ok. Christgau is pretty lame and tired. Is that nicer?

Merry Xmas!

Emily's Cheese, Friday, 25 December 2009 04:45 (fourteen years ago) link

Those sleigh bells you hear over your roof is the sound of Santa skipping your house tonight. :-(

Cunga, Friday, 25 December 2009 06:31 (fourteen years ago) link

Mmm, lumps o' coal.

The Silent Ballet finished - http://www.thesilentballet.com/tsbt/2009/10_01.html

I actually heard half of their top ten, I'm doing better this year.

Fastnbulbous, Friday, 25 December 2009 15:07 (fourteen years ago) link

We sure do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNpZvJeTpAI

lex pretend, Friday, 25 December 2009 15:53 (fourteen years ago) link

So does anybody in the UK know if Stewart Lee (at the Sunday London Times I think?) published a top 10 this year? His "Left Field" Top 10 that somebody reprinted here last year had a few interesting recommendations on it, but Google isn't helping find a '09 list by him.

xhuxk, Friday, 25 December 2009 17:48 (fourteen years ago) link

It's spread over 3 pages from here with brief write-ups: http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article6942403.ece?token=null&offset=60&page=6

1 The Green Pajamas: Poison in the Russian Room (Hidden Agenda)
2 Trembling Bells:Carbeth (Honest Jon’s)
3 Darren Hayman: Pram Town (Track & Field)
4 Alan Wilkinson, John Edwards, Steve Noble: Live at Café Oto (Bo’Weavil)
5 Bo Ningen: Koroshitai Kimochi (Stolen)
6 Corb Lund: Losin’ Lately Gambler (New West)
7 Magic Christian: Evolver (Dirty Water)
8 Death: ... For the Whole World to See (Drag City)
9 13th Floor Elevators: Sign of the 3 Eyed Men (Charly)
10 Derek Bailey and Agusti Fernandez: A Silent Dance (Incus)

useless chamber, Saturday, 26 December 2009 17:28 (fourteen years ago) link

thanks! well, my top 10 and his had one album in common, at least. (really tried to like that corb lund CD -- definitely like the idea of it -- but couldn't get past how wooden his singing sounds.)

xhuxk, Saturday, 26 December 2009 19:34 (fourteen years ago) link

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/music/2009/12/24/the-top-10-jazz-albums-of-2009/#more-15561

Michael J. West of the Washington City Paper (and elsewhere) top 10 jazz. He likes not only the Vijay Iyer Trio (whose M.I.A. cover got a fair amount of attention) but also Ramsey Lewis, who he says just reinvented himself 50 years after first establishing his name

curmudgeon, Saturday, 26 December 2009 19:59 (fourteen years ago) link

UK Times online top 10 "world music"

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article6942403.ece?token=null&offset=84&page=8

1. Mulatu Astatke & the Heliocentrics: Inspiration/Information (Strut)(Ethiopia plus UK)

2. Kronos Quartet: Floodplain (Nonesuch)(US on Middle East & South Asia)

3. 3 Deolinda: Cancao ao Lado (World Connection) (Portuguese)

4. Radiokijada: Nuevos Sonidos Afro Peruanos (Wrasse)

5. Griselda Sanderson: Harpaphonics (Waulk) (Nordic on various locations)

6. CéU: Vagarosa (Six Degrees)(Brazilian bossa nova and triphop)

7. Lura: Eclipse (Lusafrica) (Cape Verde singer)

8. Paolo Conte: Psiche (Wrasse) (Italian singer)

9. Yasmin Levy: Sentir (World Village) (Israeli Ladino singer)

10. Bonga: Bairro (Lusafrica) (Angolan Afro-samba-soul singer)

curmudgeon, Saturday, 26 December 2009 20:59 (fourteen years ago) link

may as well link the FACT tracks of the year list:

http://www.factmagazine.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4164&Itemid=103

tom lea, Sunday, 27 December 2009 20:09 (fourteen years ago) link

POLL OF POLLS
1. Animal Collective - Merriweather Post Pavilion
2. Yeah Yeah Yeahs - It's Blitz
3. The XX - The XX
4. Dirty Projectors - Bitte Orca
5. Grizzly Bear - Veckatimest
6. Horrors - Primary Colours
7. Fever Ray - Fever Ray
8. Florence and the Machine - Lungs
9. Bat For Lashes - Two Suns
10. Wild Beasts - Two Dancers
Source: HMV

Pfunkboy : The Dronelord vs The Girly Metal Daleks (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 28 December 2009 01:50 (fourteen years ago) link

full list:

Here is the 2009 HMV Poll of Polls top 50:
http://bit.ly/5in6Ik

1. Animal Collective - Merriweather Post Pavilion
2. Yeah Yeah Yeahs - It's Blitz
3. The XX - The XX
4. Dirty Projectors - Bitte Orca
5. Grizzly Bear - Veckatimest
6. Horrors - Primary Colours
7. Fever Ray - Fever Ray
8. Florence And The Machine - Lungs
9. Bat For Lashes - Two Suns
10. Wild Beasts - Two Dancers
11. F*** Buttons - Tarot Sport
12. Girls - Album
13. Mastodon - Crack The Skye
14. Phoenix - Wolfgang Amadeus Phoenix
15. Manic Street Preachers - Journal for Plague Lovers
16. La Roux - La Roux
17. Arctic Monkeys - Humbug
18. Wilco - Wilco (The Album)
19. Pains of Being Pure at Heart - Pains of Being Pure at Heart
20. Jamie T - Kings & Queens
21. Doves - Kingdom Of Rust
22. Bob Dylan - Together Through Life
23. Sun O))) - Monoliths and Dimensions
24. Mos Def - The Ecstatic
25. Richard Hawley - Truelove's Gutter
26. Bruce Springsteen - Working On A Dream
27. Future Of The Left - Travels With Myself And Another
28. Low Anthem - Oh My God, Charlie Darwin
29. Kasabian - West Ryder Pauper Lunatic Asylum
30. Muse - The Resistance
31. Martyn - Great Lengths
32. Bombay Bicycle Club - I Had The Blues But I Shook Them Loose
33. Big Pink - A Brief History Of Love
34. White Denim - Fits
35. U2 - No Line On The Horizon
36. Passion Pit - Manners
37. HEALTH - Get Colour
38. Major Lazer - Guns Don't Kill People Lazers Do
39. Empire Of The Sun - Walking On A Dream
40. Madness - The Liberty Of Norton Folgate
41. Neko Case - Middle Cyclone
42. Lily Allen - It's Not Me, It's You
43. Noah And The Whale - The First Days Of Spring
44. Telepathe - Dance Mother
45. Micachu And The Shapes - Jewellery
46. Dead Weather - Horehound
47. Sonic Youth - The Eternal
48. Japandroids - Post-Nothing
49. Franz Ferdinand - Tonight: Franz Ferdinand
50. Gallows - Grey Britain

djmartian, Monday, 28 December 2009 13:37 (fourteen years ago) link

Exclaim, a Canadian website, has several genre lists including

Groove: Year in Review 2009

1. Georgia Anne Muldrow
2. Nino Moschella
3. Oumou Sangare
4. Mayer Hawthorne
5. Maxwell
6. The Very Best
7. PPP
8. Amadou and Mariam
9. Anthony Hamilton
10. Alice Russell

http://www.exclaim.ca/articles/multiarticlesub.aspx?csid1=139&csid2=864&fid1=42691

curmudgeon, Monday, 28 December 2009 17:35 (fourteen years ago) link

Boston Globe's Siddhartha Mitter's top world albums of 2009 with descriptions

http://www.boston.com/ae/music/articles/2009/12/20/siddhartha_mitters_top_world_albums_of_2009/

BURAKA SOM SISTEMA “Black Diamond’’

OTTO “Certa manhã acordei de sonhos intranquilos’’

STAFF BENDA BILILI “Très très fort’’

KAILASH KHER “Yatra’’

KHALED “Liberté’’

OUMOU SANGARÉ “Seya’’

BUIKA “El Ultimo Trago’’ The Spanish singer pairs with pianist Chucho Valdes

BLK JKS “After Robots’’

ASA “Asa’’

FRANCO “Francophonic Vol 2, 1980-1989’’

curmudgeon, Monday, 28 December 2009 17:45 (fourteen years ago) link

Tom Morgan of WWOZ in New Orleans Top 11 traditional New Orleans cds

Jimmy Carpenter - Toiling in Obscurity
Topsy Chapman - 3 in 1
Luther Kent - Bobby Bland Songbook
Los Po-Boy-Citos - New Orleans Latin Soul
Ingrid Lucia - St. Valentine's Day Massacre
Tom McDermott - New Orleans Duets
New Orleans Nightcrawlers - Slither Slice
Palmetto Bug Stompers - Live @ d.b.a.
Vic Shepherd - Crescent City Serenade
Allen Toussaint - Bright Mississippi (Nonesuch)
Luke Winslow-King - Old/New Baby (Fox On a Hill)

http://www.wwoz.org/new+orleans+community/best+cds+2009

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 29 December 2009 03:36 (fourteen years ago) link

LOPP's top 50 albums of 2009

1. Converge - Axe To Fall
2. Pavement Ist Rad & The Lots Of People Posting All Starr Band (Feat. Trai'd) - Sing Vampire Weekend's Contra
3. Sunn O))) - Monoliths & Dimensions
4. The-Dream - Love Vs. Money
5. Shackleton - Three EPs
6. Phoenix - Wolfgang Amadeus Phoenix
7. DJ Quik & Kurupt - BlaQKout
8. Weezer - Raditude
9. Animal Collective - Merriweather Post Pavilion
10. The XX - XX
11. Electrik Red - How To Be A Lady: Vol. 1
12. Micachu & The Shapes - Jewellery
13. Juan Maclean - The Future Will Come
14. Maxwell - BLACKsummers'night
15. Field - Yesterday & Today
16. Emeralds - Emeralds
17. Few Nolder - New Folder
18. Oneida - Rated O
19. James Blackshaw - The Glass Bead Game
20. Atom™ - Liedgut
21. Krallice - Dimensional Bleedthrough
22. Annie - Don’t Stop
23. Kevin Drumm - Imperial Horizon
24. Raekwon - Only Built 4 Cuban Linx II
25. Agoraphobic Nosebleed - Agorapocalypse
26. Sunset Rubdown - Dragonslayer
27. DJ Sprinkles - Midtown 120 Blues
28. DâM-FunK - Toeachizown
29. William Basinski - 92982
30. Bodycode - Immune
31. Up-Tight - The Beginning of the End
32. Dirty Projectors - Bitte Orca
33. Gucci Mane - The Burrprint (The Movie 3D)
34. Vivian Girls - Everything Goes Wrong
35. Tim Hecker - An Imaginary Country
36. Yeah Yeah Yeahs - It's Blitz
37. White Rainbow - New Clouds
38. Kaito - Trust
39. Cobalt - Gin
40. Grizzly Bear - Veckatimest
41. Ryan Leslie - Transition
42. Handsome Furs - Face Control
43. A Sunny Day in Glasgow - Ashes Grammar
44. Martyn - Great Lengths
45. Leyland Kirby - Sadly, The Future is No Longer What it Was
46. Mastodon - Crack The Skye
47. Morrissey - Years Of Refusal
48. Horrors - Primary Colours
49. Pet Shop Boys - Yes
50. Black To Comm - Alphabet

Mitchell Stirling, Tuesday, 29 December 2009 11:41 (fourteen years ago) link

The Zero Boys are fucking awesome.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Tuesday, 29 December 2009 12:19 (fourteen years ago) link

the ireallylovemusic list :

circlesquare - songs about dancing and drugs
rebotini - music components
cabaret voltaire : kora kora kora remixes
the black dog - further vexations
king cannibal - let the night roar
kid koala - the slew
the soundcarriers : harmonium
lindstrom & prins thomas : II
spektre : live at the glade
madness : liberty of norton folgate

mark e, Tuesday, 29 December 2009 12:19 (fourteen years ago) link

Madness? Madness. No Telefon Tel Aviv, The Field or Paul White, Mark?

Doran, Tuesday, 29 December 2009 12:32 (fourteen years ago) link

well john, madness are a throwback to my youth, and i cant ever let it go.
not heard telefon or the field albums, but yes, the paul white album was a close contender.

mark e, Tuesday, 29 December 2009 12:35 (fourteen years ago) link

what's LOPP? that's an interesting list.

pshrbrn, Tuesday, 29 December 2009 12:36 (fourteen years ago) link

1. Mulatu Astatke & the Heliocentrics: Inspiration/Information (Strut)(Ethiopia plus UK)

damn. forgot this was 2009 release. thought it was 2008.
consider this the real number 10 in my list as opposed to my nostalgia tinged entry.

mark e, Tuesday, 29 December 2009 12:39 (fourteen years ago) link

xp: Check outthis link

kingkongvsgodzilla, Tuesday, 29 December 2009 12:45 (fourteen years ago) link

! Found another clue!

kingkongvsgodzilla, Tuesday, 29 December 2009 12:47 (fourteen years ago) link

hmmm something about the LOPP list's #2 seems ever so slightly suspicious

autogoon collective (The Reverend), Tuesday, 29 December 2009 13:47 (fourteen years ago) link

Lots of People Posting

"LOPP---just not what it used to be"

http://lotsofpeopleposting.teensboards.com/prison-f4/lopp-just-not-what-it-used-to-be-t563-20.htm

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 29 December 2009 14:10 (fourteen years ago) link

I wish I'd listened to the Shit and Shine album more before I did all my end of year lists.

Doran, Tuesday, 29 December 2009 14:26 (fourteen years ago) link

http://passionweiss.com/2009/12/17/the-50-best-hip-hop-songs-of-2009-25-1/

A best hiphop songs list w/ videos and music links. Gucci only appears in the top 25 on the Big Boi cut

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 29 December 2009 15:10 (fourteen years ago) link

Have there been any lists of best remixes for this year? Speaking as a knackered old cheesy quaver, last year's lists, kindly reprinted here were very helpful.

Especially for introducing me to the wonder of Grindhouse (Dubfire remix) by Radio Slave, which has been the accompaniment to many a mid afternoon, armchair daymare over the last 12 months. (And it mixes in with everything really well. Especially the Optimo remix of Optimo by Liquid Liquid.)

Doran, Tuesday, 29 December 2009 15:16 (fourteen years ago) link

soundsxp.com writers poll:

Albums

1. Pains of Being Pure at Heart - Pains of Being Pure at Heart
2. Grizzly Bear – Vecktamist
3. Micachu - Jewellery
4. The Horrors - Primary Colours
5. The XX - XX
6. Port O’Brien – Threadbare
7. Fanfarlo - Reservoir
8. Let’s Wrestle - In the Court of the Wrestling Let’s
9. Future of the Left – Travels With Myself and Another
10. Mumford and Sons - Sigh No More
11. Sin Fang Bous - Clangour
12. Dirty Projectors - Bitte Orca
13. Camera Obscura - My Maudlin Career
14. Darren Hayman and the Secondary Modern - Pram Town
15. Titus Andronicus - The Airing of Grievances
16. Cate Le Bon - Me Oh My
17. Manic Street Preachers – Journal for Plague Lovers
18. 6 Day Riot - 6 Day Riot Have A Plan
19. Tyvek - s/t
20. God Help The Girl - God Help The Girl

Singles

1. Pains of Being Pure at Heart - Young Adult Fiction
2. The Humms – Are You Dead?
3. Mumford and Sons – Little Lion Man
4. The Rayographs - Francis
5. Fergus & Geronimo - Harder Than It’s Ever Been
6. Hockey - Too Fake
7. The Magic Kids - Hey Boy
8. God Help The Girl – Come Monday Night
9. Exlovers - Photobooth
10. Allo, Darlin' - Henry Rollins Don't Dance
11. Passion Pit – Chunk of Change EP
12. Betty and the Werewolves - David Cassidy
13. Animal Collective - My Girls
14. The Horrors - Sea Within A Sea
15. The School - And Suddenly
16. Wavves – So Bored
17. Nodzzz - Is She There
18. Micachu & the Shapes – Lips
19. Race Horses - Cake
20. The Breeders - Fate Not Fatal

tacoma chameleon (electricsound), Tuesday, 29 December 2009 22:05 (fourteen years ago) link

Sherbrooke, December 29, 2009 — The demanding music radio show Délire Actuel (CFLX-FM, Sherbrooke, Quebec) unveiled today its top 30 experimental music albums you shouldn’t have missed in 2009. This list culls 30 titles, the 2009 crème de la crème in demanding music, i.e. the avant-gardist or experimental fringe in every music genre (contemporary, avant-garde jazz, free improvisation, avant-rock, electronica, etc.).

“What I call demanding music covers the notions of experimental music, avant-garde music, innovative music, musique actuelle, etc.,” explained François Couture, producer of the show. “Obviously, I haven’t heard everything released in 2009! So, I am not pretending that these are THE best records of the year, but they are MY best 30 records of the year. And, since they were selected from somewhere around 6000 submissions, I hope that the artists and record labels can find a little pride in appearing on this Top 30.”

Délire Actuel’s 2009 Demanding Music Top 30
http://blog.monsieurdelire.com/2009/12/le-top-30-des-musiques-exigeantes-2009.html

1. Henry Cow The Road: Volumes 1-5 + Volumes 6-10 ReR Megacorp

2. Magma Ëmëhntëtt-Rê Seventh Records

3. Supersilent 9 Rune Grammofon

4. Vainio, Mika Aíneen Musta Puhelin (Black Telephone of Matter) Touch

5. Kreng L’autopsie phénoménale de Dieu MIasmah

6. Bouhalassa, Ned Gratte-cité empreintes DIGITALes

7. Furt Sense Psi

8. Derome, Jean Plates-formes et traquenards Disques Victo

9. Dixon, Bill Tapestries for Small Orchestra Firehouse 12

10. Miriodor Avanti! Cuneiform

11. Alva Noto - Ryuchi Sakamoto - Ensemble Modern Utp_ Raster-Noton

12. Brady, Tim My 20th Century Ambiances Magnétiques

13. Victor Ensemble, Fay The Freesong Suite Greene Avenue Music

14. Hildegard lernt fliegen ...vom fernen Kern der Sache Unit Records

15. Rubin, Justin Nostalgia Innova Recordings

16. Vialka Succès planétaire international Vialka

17. Speak Easy Backchats Creative Sources

18. Quatuor Bozzini Hozhro Collection QB

19. Kinit Her Glyms or Beame of Radicall Truthes Hinterzimmer Records

20. Led Bib Sensible Shoes Cuneiform

21. Rothkamm ALT Baskaru

22. Rodéoscopique Rodéoscopique Audiogram

23. Mirthkon Vehicle AltrOck

24. Rupp, Olaf - Marino Pliakas - Michael Wertmüller Too Much is Not Enough FMP

25. Pateras, Anthony - Robin Fox End of Daze Editions Mego

26. Jones Trio, Darius Man’ish Boy (A Raw & Beautiful Thing) AUM Fidelity

27. MC Maguire Trash of Civilizations Innova Recordings

28. Agnel, Sophie Capsizing Moments Emanem

29. Mezei Wind Quartet, Szilárd We Were Watching the Rain Leo Records

30. Martin, Aaron Chautauqua Preservation

djmartian, Wednesday, 30 December 2009 12:11 (fourteen years ago) link

Demanding formatting.

_Rudipherous_, Wednesday, 30 December 2009 14:10 (fourteen years ago) link

I've never heard of Demanding Formatting. Are they on Ghost Box?

Doran, Wednesday, 30 December 2009 15:03 (fourteen years ago) link

re: Demanding formatting.

see the link, the artists are in bold
http://blog.monsieurdelire.com/2009/12/le-top-30-des-musiques-exigeantes-2009.html

djmartian, Wednesday, 30 December 2009 15:56 (fourteen years ago) link

Thanks. I did not mean it as a serious complaint.

AAJ is now starting to post its EOY lists:

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=35090
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=35149
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=35115
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=35091

_Rudipherous_, Wednesday, 30 December 2009 16:03 (fourteen years ago) link

Time Out New York writers' lists:
http://newyork.timeout.com/articles/music/81522/best-and-worst-music-of-2009

o. nate, Thursday, 31 December 2009 15:08 (fourteen years ago) link

i love those guys, but some of those lists are really wha?

lazy cold meat and chocolate seasonal mentality (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 31 December 2009 15:10 (fourteen years ago) link

Terrorizer Top 40 Albums of 2009

so another Terrorizer album of the year award goes to Converge

1: Converge - Axe To Fall
2: Cobalt - Gin
3: Kylesa - Static Tensions
4: Blut aus Nord - Memoria Vetusta II: Dialogue With the Stars
5: Napalm Death - Time Waits No Slave
6: Mastodon - Crack The Skye
7: Megadeth – Endgame
8: Agoraphobic Nosebleed - Agorapocalypse
9: Funeral Mist - Maranatha
10: Immortal - All Shall Fall
11: Drudkh - Microcosmos
12: Beherit - Engram
13: Portal - Swarth
14: Sunn o))) - Monoliths & Dimensions
15: Marduk - Wormwood
16: Absu - Absu
17: Tombs - Winter Hours
18: Burnt By The Sun - Heart Of Darkness
19: Heaven & Hell - The Devil You Know
20: Anaal Nathrakh - In The Constellation Of The Black Widow
21: Arckanum - ÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞ
22: Baroness - Blue Record
23: Madder Mortem - Eight Ways
24: The Devil's Blood - The Time of No Time Evermore
25: Archgoat - the Light Devouring Darkness
26: Shining - VI - Klagopsalmer
27: Candlemass - Death Magic Doom
28: Hacride - Lazarus
29: Fuckpig - Spewings from A Selfish Nation
30: Amorphis - Skyforger
31: Brutal Truth - Evolution Through Revolution
32: Grey Machine - Disconnected
33: Behemoth - Evangelion
34: Unanimated - In the Light of Darkness
35: Obscura - Cosmogenesis
36: Gnaw Their Tongues - All the Dread Magnificence of Perversity
37: Shrinebuilder - S/T
38: Teitanblood - Seven Chalices
39: Gorgoroth - Quantos Possunt ad Satanitatem Trahunt
40: Evile - Infected Nations

djmartian, Thursday, 31 December 2009 15:15 (fourteen years ago) link

After a year of tweets...

My Top 100 records of 2009: http://bit.ly/5x6xPv

Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 31 December 2009 15:28 (fourteen years ago) link

i love those guys, but some of those lists are really wha?

I like that one of them has the Tanya Morgan album at #1. I feel that one hasn't gotten enough love in these year-end lists.

o. nate, Thursday, 31 December 2009 15:34 (fourteen years ago) link

props for listing that 8ball album xp

deej, Thursday, 31 December 2009 16:07 (fourteen years ago) link

props for not taking me to task for my placement of gucci mane ;)

Results 1 - 10 of about 28,300 for mountain goat man cock (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 31 December 2009 16:11 (fourteen years ago) link

eh its cool no need for miranda lambert fans to dilute the fanbase

deej, Thursday, 31 December 2009 16:21 (fourteen years ago) link

The Terrorizer readers' poll is hysterical - Behemoth won literally 10 or 11 of 13 or 14 'best' categories and their album just scraped into the writers' top 40

Ferry Aid was a popular appeal and it still is (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 31 December 2009 16:24 (fourteen years ago) link

thats the readers for you. its the same with Kerrang. The readers polls are always totally different and much lamer than the writers polls.

Pfunkboy : The Dronelord vs The Girly Metal Daleks (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 31 December 2009 16:27 (fourteen years ago) link

though the Kerrang writers polls are totally lame now mostly too

Pfunkboy : The Dronelord vs The Girly Metal Daleks (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 31 December 2009 16:28 (fourteen years ago) link

glad somebody else remembers scale-a-ton!

lazy cold meat and chocolate seasonal mentality (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 31 December 2009 16:33 (fourteen years ago) link


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