Alice Coltrane albums POLLED (now fixed)

Finally got it right. Dismiss the other two polls. This is the correct one. I'm sorry, mods.

but what about this one?

ZING

that one has the wrong answer

jaxon, the albums with strings are my favorites. What don't you like about them?

Huntington Ashram Monastery was recently reissued and is available really cheaply through amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Huntington-Ashram-Monastery/dp/B000W09298

Journey In Satchidananda has possibly the best opening minute of anything ever recorded by anyone.

Yessssssssssssssssssssssss. However I still prefer World Galaxy & Universal Consciousness for their perpetual fucking lushness.

As much as I love Journey in Satchidananda, that album doesn't have those piercing fucking strings in "Oh Allah". Nor does it have Galaxy in Turiya-level transcendence.

I think it has been settled that she is God, btw.

she's made a ton of great music but there's no way it can't be 'satchidananda'

love those first six albs pretty unreservedly, but 'better than john', nah - and in fact, she earns demerit points for sanctioning the overdubs etc. on those posthumous JC albs.

which ph albums? (i'm curious, i only have one -steller regions - but i didn't know there were any overdubs on it)

Because she's better than John...

She isn't but was certainly great for while. I kind of like "A Monastic Trio" the best... maybe... great excuse to listen to these albums again!

I totally overdosed on "Satchidananda" when I first heard it, played it endlessly

Gotta be Universal Consciousness, there's the perfect balance between the grooves and the free improvisation and the stringy harmonies.

I too have always preferred her over John, maybe because I prefer collectivist groove over heroic solo improv. Plus her records have an incredible sound, one of the best in jazz.

i definitely prefer john over alice - i mean come on guys this is JOHN COLTRANE who made some of the best albums in jazz ever and is w/o doubt THE TENOR SAXOPHONIST!!!!!!! - but 'journey' will definitely stand up there as one of my favorite jazz albums for sure. i definitely prefer it to a lot of late period john stuff.

also i think 'journey' has the best work pharoah sanders ever did. and cecil mcbee's bass???!!!?? awesome!!

i am clearly enthusiastic about all this kind of stuff

Only have a few of these (the early ones), but Ptah, The El Daoud would be my pick of those.

sorry, shoulda said 'recordings' rather than 'albums'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Coltrane:_Infinity

I haven't heard any albums later than "Eternity", which I didn't like

i mean come on guys this is JOHN COLTRANE who made some of the best albums in jazz ever and is w/o doubt THE TENOR SAXOPHONIST!!!!!!!

Well, Alice Coltrane did some of the best albums ever in jazz too, and like I said, I've always preferred the more collective approach in Alice's music to John's solo heroics (even though he obviously was a brilliant player). Just because John undoubtedly was a better instrumentalist than Alice doesn't automatically mean Alice was inferior as a band leader/composer/recording artist.

Bit more to John than "solo heroics"

I guess so. To be honest the only John album I own is A Love Supreme, so maybe I'm making unfair comparisons due to being much more familiar with Alice's work.

tbh i never hear john as an overbearing soloist either (at least on recordings, performing live i heard was a completely different story) maybe in the very late stuff, but not totally - the live in japan album maybe (but again 'live' vs his studio albums).

the classic quartet was an incredible and cohesive band, too! while there is some bursting at the seams going around '65 or so when he was pushing the quartet to its limits, john was a pretty great band leader, brought out the best in his players for sure.

Amen to that... or Om to that, if you prefer

tuomas you should hear 'ole' and 'my favorite things'

I though My Favourite Things is all about Coltrane soloing?

it is and it isn't.

to my ears at least it's a long solo that is still very much a part of the fabric of this long vamping drift that they're playing: i mean, what i like about that record is that you can hear it both ways, depending on how you want to listen to it

Okay, maybe I should try to give John a chance.

Yeah, to me My Favourite Things is all about the stormy weather that the band are creating.

i don't dig alice's cosmic stuff all that much (ducks) but I love the weird-fusion groove of ETERNITY.

"because she's better that john" is world-class WTF in my book but hey, each to his own. peace.

i mean come on guys this is JOHN COLTRANE who made some of the best albums in jazz ever and is w/o doubt THE TENOR SAXOPHONIST!!!!!!!

1) I love John Coltrane but I listen to Sonny Rollins and Dexter Gordon more...John Coltrane is a phase you pass through and then someone you revisit from time to time throughout your life, but not someone whose music provides daily, easygoing listening pleasure.

2) As I said in one of the other AC threads, for me this is a tossup between Journey in Satchidananda and Transfiguration because I prefer her small group stuff to the strings.

3) However, Infinity (the infamous JC-with-posthumous-strings album) is awesome.

That's interesting. Save for "Prema", I care very little about Transfiguration.

Nah, the version of "Leo" is world-crushing.

this doesn't have to be a "take sides" pitting Alice vs. John, Jazz D-Bags! They both rule! In different ways! Also, some chatter over on the Jazz D-Bags rolling thread, but we should acknowledge the passing of Rashied Ali, who played with Alice & John ... RIP!

wow when did he die?

i was just thinking about elvin jones' death a few years back

also where did the term 'jazz d-bags' come from on ilx

lol, I think someone was complaining about their Jazz Douchebag roommate? Who was really into jazz? I can't really remember.

Just thought of one more album that I do love that she's on, which is McCoy Tyner's Extensions. Elvin Jones, Wayne Shorter, Ron Carter, Gary Bartz - really good!

WHEN DID RASHIED ALI DIE? :( WTF. RIP.

oh yeah, EXTENSIONS is a beaut (esp. the opening track), and Joe Henderson's THE ELEMENTS also w/ Alice is pretty sweet too - shame she didn't record more as a sideperson

could easily listen to JC daily, and have done for many months at a time - the idea that he's somehow less 'pleasurable' or 'easygoing' than dexter gordon or sonny rollins is seriously wtf (and gd luck listening to anything rollins recorded after abt 65, or to any of those interminable live dex recs post the blue note stuff)

John Coltrane is a phase you pass through and then someone you revisit from time to time throughout your life, but not someone whose music provides daily, easygoing listening pleasure.

speak for "your"self

Sometimes, I wake up and all I do is sing "Om Supreme" throughout the day.

Listening to music for pleasure and only pleasure is something I value less and less as the years go on (if I ever did this).

Tough to really compare. Alice went to places that John might have gone had he lived another five years.

I love the group they had together (that late quintet/sextet as heard on 'Live in japan' and the like)

She claims to have been visited by the ghost of Stravinsky during the recording sessions of Lord of Lords.

Listening to music for pleasure and only pleasure is something I value less and less as the years go on (if I ever did this).

After reading your comments here over the years, I have no idea what you get out of music.

No matter how many polls you start, you can't make me choose.

It was an accident. :(

in fact, she earns demerit points for sanctioning the overdubs etc. on those posthumous JC albs.

i only know infinity, and didn't know she'd done this with any others, but don't get this - you make it sound like she commissioned fat possum drum remixes of them; she just made something new out of some old tapes, you know? infinity's great, the first half especially, and at the very least i'd rather not have it than have it.

also: eternity's probably my #2. i like voting for rogue options in the polls as much as the next guy but sachidananda wins

rogue options?

accepting that something's gonna win and is really the best but that the value and undervaluedness of another option deserves recognition. like saying tabu is the best murnau film or something. it's really sunrise. just tabu is kinda innaresting.

Not really. Her music with strings is still better, sorry. :D

Yeah we get it.

Fuck off.

world galaxy or ptah, journey is really good but its never felt as immersive for me as either of those two. i've heard more of these than i can keep straight tbh

"After reading your comments here over the years, I have no idea what you get out of music."

Can what your or I get out of music, especially after posting here thousands upon thousands of times over nearly a decade on a variety of topics that possible produce contradictory statements, be summarized by a word or two?

C'mon, where's the love for Ptah? Probably the best anthem she did.

And it was Huntington that made me bump the tambourine/sleighbells thread (though I didn't really get the answer I wanted, since I wanted to come out of it and into some sort of '60s r&b shake—even a revivalist '60s r&b shake—but every song I remember with that sound actually starts differently, and HAM has such a great fade… Maybe I'll go into Black Root by Kirk…)

Yeah I think I prefer Ptah to Journey, actually! How can anyone deny "Blue Nile"?

see i feel like blue nile fits more w/ the vibe on journey

Man, Ali Rashied's playing is so menacing and propulsive on UC; esp. on "Battle At Armageddon" where it's literally battling with the organ.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

:D

wow!

World Galaxy in the house

Had a journey in satchidananda and world galaxy double header today, doldrums successfully vanquished. Fair reult on this poll, both stunningly beautiful but world galaxy does shade it.

Really wanna get a copy of 'Divine Songs' on Vinyl...from what I've heard of It it sounds fantastic...

I want to shout out for Huntington Ashram, that's a good record.

I prefer Lord of Lords when it comes to those albums with strings; it is the most majestic. Although her own playing has been submerged completely into the dense sound world by this point in her career I still find it unbeatable. Ptah is the one overall, though. I love her piano playing so much more than her harp and the opening of the album is just so perfect and dramatic.

Huntington Ashram is amazing, probably my third choice. Ron Carter's bass ostinato in the first song, with the low thump and then the slide back up, is just about the tastiest thing ever!

I'd probably rank them Journey, Ptah, Huntington as my first 3. I've never had a copy of world galaxy and I think my MP3 is a not-great vinyl rip. I've always liked Trancendence as well.

besides Journey, what are her vamp-iest albums, if you know what i mean?

All the small group ones, but Ptah probably exceeds Journey in straight up vamping

I am not especially familiar with Monastic Trio though my memory says it is characteristically good stuff.

"I prefer Lord of Lords when it comes to those albums with strings; it is the most majestic."
It's incredible, and certainly delivers majestic. Sounds like a collision between eastern influences, old movie soundtracks and Zorn. It is something else.