Will Oldham/Palace/Bonnie Prince Billie: S&D

and yeah, except for bob dylan, because he does the same thing. jam bands ~don't~. jazz dudes DO, but they're playing jazz, and that's sorta the point sometimes. but in the realm of rock and roll or w/e, i can't think of anyone that reinvents their back catalogue as frequently and as often as oldham.

i think with jam bands like the dead, it's about extending songs, exploring them in a more expansive manner, not necessarily really changing the actual skeleton of the song. with someone like dylan, he often really reimagines the songs. there was a version of girl from north country few years back that, to my ears, had a completely different chord structure than the original (sounded like friend of the devil, actually). don't know if oldham falls into this camp -- i'm not an obsessive fan, but it is pretty rare.

if the song is entirely re-structured, including chords, what makes it the same song? that the dude remembered to repeat a refrain every so often?

I mean, P-funk does that in their own peculiar jam-bandy way when they play live. They hit a groove and then George recites as many choruses from various songs as he can think of, for ex.

whether or not the song is a "version" of Tear the Roof Off, Get Off Your Ass and Jam, Mothership Connection, Sentimental Journey, etc. is kinda a moot point

if the song is entirely re-structured, including chords, what makes it the same song? that the dude remembered to repeat a refrain every so often?
yeah, i mean, sometimes it sorta seems like Dylan is just awkwardly fitting old words into a new song, but it works on occasion -- like an visual artist painting the same landscape from a different angle, you kinda get a new vibe from the rearrangements.

yeah that makes sense, esp given the v nature of a lot of parliament songs in general (~groovy~).

in the case of oldham, it's the "same song" because it's got the same lyrics, and that's about it. phrasing, chord structure (i ~think~), delivery, instrumentation, etc. are all different sometimes.

xps

I am going to leave it to GG to express my absolute antipathy towards Dylan, she does it more eloquently than even the biggest lektual on here could or indeed a working class spaz like me could. I personally despise him and consider him one of the most contrived and overrated bags of shite from 20th century music. Will Oldham certainly isn't perfect but he is worth a thousand Dylans.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/jun/30/popandrock.poetry

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/red/blue_pics/2008/09/12/germaine_greer.jpg

Dylan-haters are the equivalent of James Brown-haters imho

like if you hate him I kinda think you don't actually like/understand popular music in the latter half of the 20th century

gauntlet THROWN

oh shit.
i don't even get what that article is saying -- she doesn't think dylan's lyrics work as poetry? fair enough. do they work as lyrics? YES.
also, "not fit to tie woody guthrie's shoes?" was this written in 1962?

woody guthrie had SHOES?? what a sellout

germaine greer has some weird opinions + she loves telling everyone abt them

if the song is entirely re-structured, including chords, what makes it the same song? that the dude remembered to repeat a refrain every so often?

I mean, P-funk does that in their own peculiar jam-bandy way when they play live. They hit a groove and then George recites as many choruses from various songs as he can think of, for ex.

― goat, camel, horse, and water buffalo (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, December 2, 2010 2:10 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it's different than that though....

here's a pretty good example: tonight i'll be staying here with you original vs. the rolling thunder tour...one's jaunty pop country one is a raging 70s rocker but it's still fundamentally the same song, even if the arrangements and some of the chord voicings have been changed

like if you hate him I kinda think you don't actually like/understand popular music in the latter half of the 20th century

^^^^

i honestly can't think of many other contemporary artists (instrumentalists aside) that play it so fast and loose with their stuff.

Dan Bejar / Destroyer kinda does this but not to the same extent

I saw him on the tour for Your Blues and it was raggedy crazy electric versions of those songs (w/ Frog Eyes as the backing band)

Yep, Bejar definitely fits that category, and, FWIW, he's a far, far better songwriter than Bonnie at his best

there are recorded versions of those Your Blues reworks on the Notorious Lightning EP, fwiw.

I don't even have to make the Dylan comparisons or fuel the controversy anymore! My work here is done.

xpost - yep I almost mentioned that it became an EP. I think he used to do this kind of thing a lot more (friend who saw him at SXSW circa Streethawk/This Night barely recognized the songs until the choruses came in) and it was a little maddening b/c he didn't play out very much. nowadays he's kind of toned it down I think.

"like if you hate him I kinda think you don't actually like/understand popular music in the latter half of the 20th century"

[Disparaging Voice]Yes mate you are totally correct, the essence of 20th century popular music has simply passed me by because I dont like one strand off its entire fabric.

I hear more about the human condition in one simple song by luminaries such as Skip James or Lightning Hopkins than in Dylans entire back catalogue (and I have tried many of his albums).

Admittedly they arguably were making music in the early half of the 20th century, but quite close to his era.

Your response is just the archetypal Dylanapologist arrogance I would expect from folk who cant just settle for him being merely their own particular favoured strand of 20th century popular music. You have this pathological need to elevate him above everyone else in the world, sort of like inverted adult teenyboppers with yer Bobbie Williams. Are you suggesting he is the motherlode of all 20th century greatness? Very shortsighted, deluded and plain wrong.

Obviously because a lot of folk with pallid dungeon-tans and wavering eyes spend a lot of time disserting his greatness, he is obviously not a mere strand but a godlike enigma etc zzzzzzzzzzz. He isn't Mozart, do you realise this?

u mad

#Mozartapologist

first palace bros singles/rarities comp (lost blues) works for me as his most solid work.

― i love you but i have chosen snarkness (Steve Shasta), Thursday, December 2, 2010 1:00 PM Bookmark

^^^

Mozartapologist

Quack Quack Chortle!

the sound of a man choking on a message board post

Not really ballbag, just laughing at Mozartapologist.

u mad

Will Oldham certainly isn't perfect but he is worth a thousand Dylans.

like if you hate him I kinda think you don't actually like/understand popular music in the latter half of the 20th century

^ equally ridiculous

OTM

Your response is just the archetypal Dylanapologist arrogance I would expect from folk who cant just settle for him being merely their own particular favoured strand of 20th century popular music. You have this pathological need to elevate him above everyone else in the world, sort of like inverted adult teenyboppers with yer Bobbie Williams

huge lols at 'dylanapologist'

1) why make it one word? there's no trailing 'a' in dylan!
2) that a well-respected musician can even have 'apologists' is a fucking hilarious idea, and one that can only be held by someone who is taking shit way, way, waaaaaaaaaaay too seriously. apologists are for people that are actively making the world a worse place.
3) you might be right about dylan getting too much love, i dunno, i never got into him that much (tho you have prompted me to put on john wesley harding), but actively hating dylan and his place in the pantheon is webelos grade challoping, try harder.
4) u mad, doggy

Will Oldham certainly isn't perfect but he is worth a thousand Dylans.

like if you hate him I kinda think you don't actually like/understand popular music in the latter half of the 20th century

^ equally ridiculous

You might be right but that is my humble opinion and I am not going to tell you that you know nothing about 20th century music because you beg to differ. Its different with Zimmerman though, isn't it?

"zimmerman!"

*audible sneer*

dude is so phony he doesn't even use his real name

will oldham interviews r kelly - http://www.interviewmagazine.com/music/r-kelly/

ILM needs a revived Will Oldham thread like it needs a hole in its head, but fuck it. Arise Therefore is a weird, weird record, even more so than I remember.

this self-cover has been killing me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-xSxWX7_-4

love it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtX1RSKW4gI&feature=related

Can anyone ID the band in this, especially the singer to his right?

those outfits are the fucking best

The female singer is Angel Olsen. The backing band is the same as Wolfroy.

Angel Olsen

this self-cover has been killing me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-xSxWX7_-4&feature=player_embedded

― j., Sunday, July 15, 2012 7:48 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark

man what the hell did i just watch

been diggin' that all summer. initially because I was all "HEY IT IS ASHTON LANE AND BYRES ROAD IN GLASGOW" but then the song just took over.

yeah i love that video

this new everly brothers tribute CD is about half great, half meh. "kentucky" is gorgeous.

Weird question: does Will work in the food/bev industry now?

thought he was in the fragrance industry - http://sanaeintoxicants.bigcartel.com/product/bonnie-billy
y'all should check this song out, which features oldham on the chorus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wU_jF6okvQ
whole album is great