Captain Beefheart

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I'm playing "Doc at the Radar Station" this morning and it occurs to me why I don't listen to it more often: I don't really like it that much. I think this goes into my "Music it's good to have met" category. I find that bits and pieces of Capt. Beefheart's words will suddenly appear in my head even when I have not been listening to him for a while ("Send your mother home your navel!"), but I don't really have any need to actually listen to these songs any more. I don't find what's going on musically to be as interesting as Beefheart's words and delivery. (I especially don't like the way the rhythm drags along, almost like the band would rather not be playing at all.) I remember someone saying "Capt. Beefheart? Is that anything like Dr. Demento?" and in a way I think they are actually not so different (though I don't remember what Dr. Demento sounds like that this point). This music has a novelty feel to it. I still think "Tropical Hotdog Night" is actually a pretty good song. (I know TMR is generallly considered his masterpiece, but I've never liked anything I've heard from it.)

― DeRayMi, Thursday, 6 June 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

ha ha! tropical hotdog night is the only beefheart song i actually like!

― gareth, Thursday, 6 June 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

I don't listen to Doc as much as I used to, but that may just be because it's become more familiar, and I'm always finding new things to listen to. When I do listen to it, I still find it quite enjoyable. I don't think I'd ever tire of "Sue Egypt" or "Dirty Blue Gene". The Dr. Demento comparison is unjustified. Just because something sounds "weird" doesn't mean that it's a novelty. The thing about Beefheart is that you never get the feeling that he's just trying to be "weird".

― o. nate, Thursday, 6 June 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

I listen to "Lick My Decals Off, Baby" all the time. I don't listen to "Doc" that much.

And . . . uh . . . Dr. Demento is a DJ. He doesn't really make any music, he just plays records.

― J, Thursday, 6 June 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

doc at the radar station is great production, not such great songs lick my decals off baby, clear spot, safe as milk, these records are worth it

go listen to the last few seconds of 'petrified forest' from ..decals.., those are my favourite few seconds of any music ever does that count for anything I wonder

― sam, Thursday, 6 June 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

I just find it totally impossible not to enjoy 'Ella Guru' every time I hear it. What a pop song!

― Keith McD, Friday, 7 June 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

I knew I shouldn't mention Dr. Demento, since I can't remember what he even does or sounds like, but I thought that he actually had put out some records. Sorry about that.

I'd like to hear more Beefheart, but based on my ambivalence about what I have already heard, I'm not interested enough to actually go out and buy the stuff (and I'm not into downloading mp3s).

― DeRayMi, Saturday, 8 June 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

i think "ice cream for crow" is a beautifully produced refinement of TMreplica -- no boring straight songs like the ones that weigh down "doc.." and "bat .." so bad -- his last album and for me it's "this is what i wanted it to sound like, now i'll retire on high .. landscape yonder .."

maybe 'the real' bat chain puller ?? -- it's nice to know beefheart isn't completely over

that box set is fun career overview as is that book by zoot horn rollo what'sis name -- box and ice cream and kandy korn and decals 'n' stuff and "hey garland i dig your tweed coat" better than aggrivated penalty material like "moonbeams" and "necessarily retarded conversation with unfunny sunny dummy mojo bono on badumb human totum pole manure come home day"

― George Gosset, Sunday, 9 June 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

I always think of myself as a big beefheart fan but i never listen to him any more. i guess i've just absorbed it all. having said that - some of the live numbers offa the box set where the band sounds like the stretchheads are absolutely mindblowing. once you've run out of the captain's tunes to memorize and reminisce nostalgically over - if you can take the george duke era mothers - then get yourself "Trends & other diseases" by mats/morgan swedish nonsense which far exceeds its zappa tribute roots - pleasantly daffy, immensely motorik caveman drumming and him out of meshuggah guesting on chug & widdle guitar on a couple of tracks. dachau blues ? subtlety hardly the captains forté lyrically

― bob snoom, Thursday, 13 June 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

10 months pass...

REvIVe

Just heared TMR again, whats with all the hate fr it? yeah i agree that Decales is the better one and my personal fav, but i have much respect fr TMR. I got introduced to Don Vliet via Decales, maybe thats the reason why TMR makes perfect sense to me? though i'll admit to a few weak track here. first time i heared "frownland" i played it on endless repeats, also "fallin` ditch", "ella guru","hair pie: bake 2" deserve a special mention if i'm not leaving anything out. its one fantastic(Ugly) record.

― rex jr., Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:06 (10 years ago) Permalink

Decals is fantastic (how many times have i said that this year?). there's tons of ohter good stuff you missed out off tmr rex. but that's OK. its a flawed but really good rec. one of the few albs in the canon that are worth listening to bcz it leads to all sorts of things (though I'll prob only listen to this once a year).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:14 (10 years ago) Permalink

As far as post-Trout Mask stuff goes, I like to go a little later than that. Trout Mask cannot be topped in the bizarreness department, and Decals is but a pale shadow.

But Clear Spot is not to be missed. If you can find the CD with both Clear Spot and The Spotlight Kid, all the better. "Her Eyes are a Blue Million Miles" is one of my favorite love songs.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:15 (10 years ago) Permalink

clear spot is a good rec. but my decals is where the experiments on trout mask are fully realised. the production is better too.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:24 (10 years ago) Permalink

"Tropical Hotdog Night" isn't on "Doc At the Radar Station", has anyone mentioned this yet?

"Doc" is a great album - much better than "Ice Cream For Crow" where the Captain sounds old and exhausted and the band sound like some indie band. "Shiny Beast" is probably TOO polished, "Doc" combines the polish of "Shiny Beast" with the spikiness of "Ice Cream For Crow". Novelty music? Pah!

I confess to being amazed that anyone could possibly prefer "Lick My Decals Off" to "Trout Mask Replica" - "Trout Mask" just has so much more POWER, it's a ROCK album definitely. I like "Decals" but it has an air of charming and charmed eccentricity which makes it easier for Beefheart-detractors to dismiss it as mere obscurantist noodling and goonery. Plus the production stinks. It seems to easy to ignore "Decals" whereas "Trout Mask" is simply impossible to ignore.

― Dadaismus, Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:29 (10 years ago) Permalink

Excuse me - the production is better on "Decals"? Maybe if you want Beefheart to be some Derek Bailey like figure, sitting nobly on the margins of the music business. Beefheart needs to sound like a rock band not like Henry Cow or someone!

― Dadaismus, Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:32 (10 years ago) Permalink

really? my sense of good porduction must be completely fucked by listening to doggy recordings of 60s free jazz duuude!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:33 (10 years ago) Permalink

how the fuck does he sound like 'some derek bailey like figure'?!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:34 (10 years ago) Permalink

I actually Love Ice cream for crow, thats when he returned to his great 'bizzarness', i'v heared a couple of songs from Clear Spot, loved "Big Eyed Beans from Venus" but its not as interesting to me.

there's tons of ohter good stuff you missed out off tmr rex
yeah i know: "moonlight on vermont","veteran's day poppy","pachuco cadaver" and tons of others.

― rex jr., Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:37 (10 years ago) Permalink

Julio, listen to music with a bit of bottom for a change! On "Decals" where's the bass and why are the drums so pitter-pattery?

This reminds me of Ben Watson's (who I normally can't stand) dismissal of Henry Cow and "Rock In Opposition" (in opppsition to what? Selling records?) in his silly Zappa book.

― Dadaismus, Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:38 (10 years ago) Permalink

Dadaismis, yes I know that. I wasn't limiting myself to talking about Doc at the Radar Station.

― Rockist Scientist, Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:38 (10 years ago) Permalink

how the fuck does he sound like 'some derek bailey like figure'?!

I mean that "Decals" sounds less like a rock album (because all teh bottom's been taken out) and more like just more cerebral, sexless, "difficult" music for dwellers of musical ghettoes to consume. Actually I still love the album, esp. "Bellerin' Plain"

― Dadaismus, Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:41 (10 years ago) Permalink

so what if they are pitter-pattery? what does that fucking mean (though i think i know)? decals is better because the guitars/sax interplay is also much better.

I have never read that zappa book BTW and I like henry cow.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:42 (10 years ago) Permalink

difficult= sexless

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:44 (10 years ago) Permalink

the alb rocks and it has some good tunes actually. he is delivering as far as the vocals go as well.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:46 (10 years ago) Permalink

I like Henry Cow... a bit. But Henry Cow are disposable, Beefheart is the real deal. Beefheart is a rock musician, with blood and snot and semen etc etc, he don't inhabit no ghettoes.

― Dadaismus, Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:47 (10 years ago) Permalink

I hear and agree with Dadaismus's point re Decals, but still like Decals better. Perhaps the faulty statement is "Beefheart needs to sound like a rock band". Rocking out may be one of man's noblest ambitions, but why does Beefheart *need* to sound like a rock band? Really, despite it's rock context and roots, Beefheart really is a bit arty and difficult. Also, I'm guessing, but I don't think Zappa was going for a populist, "let's bring this to the CHARTS!" approach with Trout Mask, so the above point is further muddied.

― Sean (Sean), Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:48 (10 years ago) Permalink

the great thing abt trout mask is the fact that he does mess with rock forms. that's why I said he was the one that led me to other things.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:50 (10 years ago) Permalink

KCoyne's obsessive need to slag Derek Bailey off in every thread is getting yawnsome - we get the picture, already

"Beefheart needs to sound like a rock band" - great, just what the wrld needs, another fuckin' rock band. I like the sound of 'Decals' prob. because it's marginal and scratchy and 'bottomless' or whatever - v. 'punk', not rock. 'Clear Spot' sounds like a Van Morrison alb.

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:50 (10 years ago) Permalink

When I say he "needs to sound like a rock band". What I mean is that, to my mind, Beefheart's music sounds much better when it is "professionally" produced, particularly when the bass and drums are powerful as opposed to a (to borrow from Julio) a "dodgy mid-60s free jazz" production. If not, then his music can sound as whimsical and cerebral as Henry Cow (tho his compositions are of a far higher magnitude than anything Henry Cow were ever capable of). Another Beefheart album which strikes me as being badly produced is "The Spotlight Kid". Of course, the COMPOSITIONS are what counts and "Decals" has great compostions on it.

― Dadasimus, Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:55 (10 years ago) Permalink

Ha ha, I have no great need to "slag off Derek Bailey in very thread". I quite like the old boy as it happens, his name just came to mind.

"Trout Mask Replica" still SOUNDS like a wrong album, it's produced to SOUND like a rock album not something esoteric and avant-garde.

Andrew, if you think "Clear Spot" sounds like a Van Morrison album can you point me to which Van Morrison album and I will order forthwith.

― Dadaismus, Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:59 (10 years ago) Permalink

Best produced Beefheart album="Unconditionally Guaranteed" obv.

― Sean (Sean), Sunday, 20 April 2003 16:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

"Trout Mask Replica" still SOUNDS like a wrong album, it's produced to SOUND like a rock album not something esoteric and avant-garde.

Should read: "Trout Mask Replica" still SOUNDS like a ROCK album, it's produced to SOUND like a rock album not something esoteric and avant-garde.

(Freudian Slip)

Anyway, I even quite like "Unconditionally Guaranteed" and "Bluejeans and Moonbeams" - so what do I know?

― Dadaismus, Sunday, 20 April 2003 16:01 (10 years ago) Permalink

first time i'v heared "Peon" and "doctor dark" my mind was literary BLOWN to bits. i can't name a weak track on it, its an electric alb.

"Bellerin' Plain" is another electricfying track.

― rex jr., Sunday, 20 April 2003 16:02 (10 years ago) Permalink

''Best produced Beefheart album="Unconditionally Guaranteed" obv.''

hahaha!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 20 April 2003 16:03 (10 years ago) Permalink

Actually, I'd like to hear Van Morrison cover "Nowadays a Woman's Got to Hit a Man".

― Sean (Sean), Sunday, 20 April 2003 16:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

well 'clear spot' is OK (prob just thinking of the good tracks here, there are some duds) but its nowhere near trout, decals and safe as milk.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 20 April 2003 16:05 (10 years ago) Permalink

"Clear Spot" is fan-fucking-tastic. It's my No. 2 fave Beefheart album.

― Dadaismus, Sunday, 20 April 2003 16:07 (10 years ago) Permalink

literary
DOH DOH DOH DOH DOH!! that should read literally dammit.

― rex jr, Sunday, 20 April 2003 16:08 (10 years ago) Permalink

again, why does no-one like "ice cream for crow" ?

― george gosset (gegoss), Monday, 21 April 2003 03:45 (10 years ago) Permalink

Its the only song I like!

― SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Monday, 21 April 2003 04:17 (10 years ago) Permalink

again, why does no-one like "ice cream for crow" ?
Its a great album, i got it recently. its got pretty addictive tracks, i'v been listening to it a lot last week.

― rex jr., Monday, 21 April 2003 07:57 (10 years ago) Permalink

'ice cream' is a good rec (the title track is worth it on its own). a fine last album.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 21 April 2003 08:34 (10 years ago) Permalink

"Ice Cream For Crow" is great by anyone else's standards - I think it's only "good" by Beefheart's standards.

― Dadaismus, Monday, 21 April 2003 12:03 (10 years ago) Permalink

Man, i need to get Doc at the Radar Station! i don't think i heared a single song of it.

― rex jr., Monday, 21 April 2003 12:16 (10 years ago) Permalink

''I think it's only "good" by Beefheart's standards''

yup.

must get doc as well. its criminal that i haven't heard this yet.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 21 April 2003 17:07 (10 years ago) Permalink

"Doc" and "Crow" are both great.

I rank the Beefheart albums thusly:

1) Decals
2) Trout Mask
3) Strictly Personal
3) Clear Spot
4) Doc
5) Crow
6) Safe as Milk
7) Spotlight Kid
8) Mirror Man

I haven't heard "Unconditionally Guaranteed" or "Bluejeans and Moonbeams." I suspect they're not nearly as bad as everyone says, but I won't mind being wrong on that score.

Whoever said that "Decals" doesn't rock is insane. "Doctor Dark" is one of the rockinist songs EVAH. Plus the title track? Come ON! I do love TMR, but it's hard for me to swallow in one go. Plus, some of the instrumental 'house' versions of the TMR songs available on the "Grow Fins" boxset are more groovin' than the Zappa studio versions, particularly "Hobo Chang Ba."

― J (Jay), Monday, 21 April 2003 17:45 (10 years ago) Permalink

Doc is great - Hothead, Ashtray Heart, Best Batch Yet .. But I still like Ice Cream for Crow better overall... I think Doc probably sounds better & I can see why people would like it more .. but Crow .. I love everything on it.

Trout Mask .. genious, masterpice, etc.. but I think it sounds like a late 60's psychedelic album (which it is...) .But I mean, it sounds dated & sounds like he was trying to be weird.. Decals seems more *?sincere?* (not sure if that's the word I want...)

― dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 21 April 2003 17:54 (10 years ago) Permalink

What, no Shiny Beast?

― Chris P (Chris P), Monday, 21 April 2003 19:48 (10 years ago) Permalink

"do you still have the french import vinyl of beefheart's safe as milk?"

-- Customer Who Sucks (High Fidelity)

― j.a.e., Tuesday, 22 April 2003 01:28 (10 years ago) Permalink

as played by (wait for it)...

...Al Johnson of U.S. Maple.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 22 April 2003 01:29 (10 years ago) Permalink

Skipping 96 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Decals is prob a mite less accessible than Trout.

― my other pug is a stillsuit (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 6 December 2012 19:13 (5 months ago) Permalink

yeah and i guess the latter albums are probably not great to start with either -- i'd say just start at the beginning.

― tylerw, Thursday, 6 December 2012 19:15 (5 months ago) Permalink

See I'd tend to recommend Clear Spot as a starter.

― my other pug is a stillsuit (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 6 December 2012 19:27 (5 months ago) Permalink

It was kinda inevitable - XTC does a spot-on cover of "Ella Guru", the Blue Aeroplanes cover "Owed T Alex", and Robyn Hitchcock did a whole gig covering "Clear Spot". I'll circle back and check out the albums proper though looks like "Lick My Decals Off" is hard to find.

― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Thursday, 6 December 2012 20:01 (5 months ago) Permalink

I can hook you up with Decals as a single long mp3 file if all else fails you. It's p much impossible to get the CD last time I checked and unlike Starsailor it's not offered through legit download services.

― my other pug is a stillsuit (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 6 December 2012 20:11 (5 months ago) Permalink

Trout Mask is, despite the flaws, i.e. Zappa's production and what not his best, even if Lick My Decals is his actual best record.

You could easily start w/Safe as Milk, but dive in to Trout.... If you can't see what's good about it by just looking at the cover he's not for you. Its that simple.

― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 6 December 2012 20:11 (5 months ago) Permalink

Kids were p good.

― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 6 December 2012 20:13 (5 months ago) Permalink

hey Gerald I have Decals on CD, hit me up via ILXmail if you want a flac copy. And yes, I would say start with Safe As Milk or Clear Spot, although Doc is pretty damn good too.

― sleeve, Thursday, 6 December 2012 21:11 (5 months ago) Permalink

Scorpio did a 180gm edition of Decals that might still be kicking around.

― Big Sambola & The Tailspinners (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 6 December 2012 22:09 (5 months ago) Permalink

Decals is prob a mite less accessible than Trout.

― my other pug is a stillsuit (Jon Lewis), Thursday, December 6, 2012 2:13 PM (2 hours ago)

see I think the opposite, if I'd heard decals first I prolly would've gotten beefheart earlier

mainly cause the production job on trout mask is so raw

― CGI fridays (Edward III), Thursday, 6 December 2012 22:14 (5 months ago) Permalink

lick my decals is on itunes btw

― CGI fridays (Edward III), Thursday, 6 December 2012 22:15 (5 months ago) Permalink

and youtube

― CGI fridays (Edward III), Thursday, 6 December 2012 22:17 (5 months ago) Permalink

Scorpio did a 180gm edition of Decals that might still be kicking around.

Bought that from a rec shop a long time ago, when they existed.

― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 6 December 2012 22:52 (5 months ago) Permalink

last three albums are killer btw, if your first album is Clear Spot, those would not be horrible next steps...

― send Lawyers (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 7 December 2012 04:40 (5 months ago) Permalink

Decals has been one of my fave records for years, but Trout Mask's rep had always sorta scared me off from listening to it--Decals is purportedly *less* accessible than Trout Mask? I've been avoiding it for nothing?

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 7 December 2012 06:39 (5 months ago) Permalink

Decals is NOT less accessible than TMR, but TMR shouldn't present any great difficulty for anyone who likes Decals

― Ward Fowler, Friday, 7 December 2012 12:18 (5 months ago) Permalink

TMR has more variety.

It's a good album for doing other things to while listening.

― Mark G, Friday, 7 December 2012 12:26 (5 months ago) Permalink

I disagree with Julio fairly violently on this one, the production on "Decals" is abysmal whereas I can see nothing wrong with what Zappa did on TMR - what's not to like?

― Named locally as Tom D (Tom D.), Friday, 7 December 2012 13:04 (5 months ago) Permalink

Beefheart should never have been allowed to produce himself, he fucked up "The Spotlight Kid" too

― Named locally as Tom D (Tom D.), Friday, 7 December 2012 13:05 (5 months ago) Permalink

Its more what TMR's detractors say, as in they don't like what Zappa did -- or more what he didn't do because Beefheart didn't really allow Z to touch it apart from bits of button pushing (or so Z claimed).

Not really that good a judge on prodcution -- both sound fine and are his best recs.

― xyzzzz__, Friday, 7 December 2012 13:11 (5 months ago) Permalink

I could do without some of the spoken word/ field recordings bits that Zappa put in tbh

― Named locally as Tom D (Tom D.), Friday, 7 December 2012 13:16 (5 months ago) Permalink

what's wrong w/ the production on Decals, sounds fine to me??

― Ward Fowler, Friday, 7 December 2012 13:23 (5 months ago) Permalink

The drums sound like shit for a start. You've got two great drummers on the records, what a waste.

― Named locally as Tom D (Tom D.), Friday, 7 December 2012 13:27 (5 months ago) Permalink

well, it's a trebly-sounding alb, i'll give you that, but it's also a very guitar-y alb, so i don't really miss the bottom-end fug of TMR too much.

iirc from his bk, drumbo was p pleased w/ Decals as a rec - think the Magic Band even believed they'd made a much more 'commercial' object, after the alienating swamp of TMR

― Ward Fowler, Friday, 7 December 2012 13:31 (5 months ago) Permalink

It's just nowhere near as powerful and ballsy as the music deserves, it's all a bit meek and scuffly and "avant garde", I'd rather it was more Canned Heat than Henry Cow, to put it crudely. I've covered this before... possibly on this thread!

― Named locally as Tom D (Tom D.), Friday, 7 December 2012 13:32 (5 months ago) Permalink

yeah don't think we're gonna agree on this one - but they'd already made their Canned Heat alb(s) w/ eg Mirror Man, so decals is...something else

― Ward Fowler, Friday, 7 December 2012 13:34 (5 months ago) Permalink

No, that's not what I mean, TMR is like a Canned Heat record, it's well recorded and you can hear all the instruments and it has a bottom end, there's "rock" in there

― Named locally as Tom D (Tom D.), Friday, 7 December 2012 13:36 (5 months ago) Permalink

yr clarification only has me scratching my head even more!! i mean, there are a million albs by 60s blues-rock groups w/ plenty of bottom end, rock music chops, good clean production, seperation of instruments etc - i go to beefheart for something else, something that has as much in common w/ free jazz, exotica, the avant-garde, blahdiblah - and for me, decals is prob the ultimate expression of that.

― Ward Fowler, Friday, 7 December 2012 13:43 (5 months ago) Permalink

Shiny Beast was the first one I heard (thanks to a review in the Spin Albums Guide and its availability at my local library). I had never heard anything that sounded so wrong or made me so uncomfortable. I'm glad I persevered, though, because I love the Captain dearly now. And that particular album practically sounds like pop to me these days.

― Out Of Thyme (Old Lunch), Friday, 7 December 2012 13:55 (5 months ago) Permalink

i go to beefheart for something else, something that has as much in common w/ free jazz, exotica, the avant-garde, blahdiblah - and for me, decals is prob the ultimate expression of that.

Well there you go, I don't

― Named locally as Tom D (Tom D.), Friday, 7 December 2012 15:50 (5 months ago) Permalink

First one I heard was "Doc at the Radar Station", which retains much of the avant garde aspects but with a tad more oomph, so, perfect for me really

― Named locally as Tom D (Tom D.), Friday, 7 December 2012 15:52 (5 months ago) Permalink

lick my decals is on itunes btw

― CGI fridays (Edward III), Thursday, December 6, 2012 5:15 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Damn I did not know that! Goodbye, single unbroken long-ass mp3 file...

― my other pug is a stillsuit (Jon Lewis), Friday, 7 December 2012 15:53 (5 months ago) Permalink

It's just nowhere near as powerful and ballsy as the music deserves
i love the way these records sound, but if you talk to pretty much any of the magic band members, they'd agree with that, not necessarily production, but just the way he made the band play....there's a zoot horn rollo interview in the recent feeding back book where he says as much.
"when beefheart was singing, he'd turn into a little kid who was freaked out. and that really dictated what he did. So then Decals ... more of the same. Then his accusation was that we'd ruined his music; he needed to sing slower. So then we did Spotlight Kid where it's like we were in Night of the Living Dead the tempos were so slow. You listen to the mix and it's all vocal. He wiped the band out."
again, i'm not sure i'd want the albums to sound different, but there's testimony form a guy who was there.
he goes on to say "what the man could do in a room standing there singing was never recorded, period. Interviews, live gigs, I would say the best you ever saw of him was sixty to seventy percent. what he could do when he was relaxed would have scared you to death."

― tylerw, Friday, 7 December 2012 16:06 (5 months ago) Permalink

Yeah I agree w/Ward - think I always found straight rock music w/oomph as such to be kinda boring - maybe apart from 50s rock n roll but the 'roll' content is important. Love all the spoken word/field recordings in TMR and so on.

Don't think this stuff is about power or balls at all.

― xyzzzz__, Friday, 7 December 2012 16:47 (5 months ago) Permalink

to expand a little on my comment above, decals is more cleanly recorded. trout mask at first blush can sound like a mad rush of nonsense without the definition afforded by decals. you don't have to tell me that clean sound can blunt the immediacy of a recording (I am a connoisseur of garbage sound) but it's easier to appreciate the complexity and interplay of the magic band on decals. yeah, it's more "sterile" but it's a better entry point.

the best way into trout mask imo is to pick a handful of songs and get real familiar with them, the terrain gets less imposing if you recognize some landmarks - 'ella guru', 'moonlight on vermont', 'sugar n spikes', 'the blimp'.

if you're down with decals, trout mask will go down pretty easy. the material on both are *very* similar, it's just the engineering that differs. I guess trout mask does have more stuff that would strike the casual listener as filler - the field recordings, spoken word bits, free horn sprees - but that's like 20% of the album maybe?

― CGI fridays (Edward III), Friday, 7 December 2012 19:24 (5 months ago) Permalink

after struggling through the john french bk, i've def come down more heavily on the captain's side, rather than the magic band's side, in this imaginary oomph/avant dust-up - like, drumbo in his book is v caustic abt the captain's horn playing, saying how horrible untutored it is (and explicitly judged to be dud in w/ comparison the sophisticated musical chops of the magic band, honed in countless club/bar blues bands etc) - whereas i LOVE the sound of beefheart's sax, and am happy for him to obliterate the magic band as and when he sees fit - nothing these guys have done apart from beefheart has been worth a damm, really ('cept maybe the french/kaiser/thompson etc recs - and again, drumbo isn't too keen on those, too much 'improvisation' and not enough 'rock' whatsits)

but after this skirmish i'm raising the white flag, retreating to my bunker and spinning... i dunno... Mirror Man for the evening

― Ward Fowler, Friday, 7 December 2012 19:44 (5 months ago) Permalink

Beefheart was a v good saxophone player, had a great sound. As good as I dunno...the Pistols playing oomphy untutored rock.

Reading that zoot horn hollo comment above as 'recording unable to capture a wild live sound'. Well now that applies to so much great music! Par for the course..

― xyzzzz__, Friday, 7 December 2012 20:08 (5 months ago) Permalink

Even though Decals has more conventional-sounding rock sections than TMR, in all I think it's a more complex work. The amount of detail packed into "Doctor Dark" alone is mind boggling. I think the removal of the 2nd guitar opened things up a bit, allowing the bass to take a greater role in shaping the tune. I think Marc Boston is the unsung hero of this band--his lines on Decals and TMR are just sui generis, there is nothing else like them in rock.

As for production I think the debate is just a matter of taste. I think the squished sound of Decals fits the jam-packed nature of the compositions themselves. I wouldn't change a thing, except maybe removing the sax from "Flash Gordon's Ape".

― Johnny Hotcox, Friday, 7 December 2012 20:24 (5 months ago) Permalink

think I always found straight rock music w/oomph as such to be kinda boring

Beefheart w/oomph = not straight rock music

― Named locally as Tom D (Tom D.), Saturday, 8 December 2012 11:56 (5 months ago) Permalink

But, yeah, fair enough if you're more into jazz/avant than rock/pop then I can understand where you're coming from

― Named locally as Tom D (Tom D.), Saturday, 8 December 2012 11:57 (5 months ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

sooo... Sundazed has just reissued two of the Safe As Milk singles... in mono! I wanna buy them but otoh maybe I should just hope they eventually reissue the whole mono LP. I have fallen in love with that version, it is a revelation.

― sleeve, Friday, 4 January 2013 22:35 (4 months ago) Permalink

yeah it is the only version i listen to now!

― tylerw, Friday, 4 January 2013 23:38 (4 months ago) Permalink

You know what, I bought the original UK Pye single of "Yellow Brick Road", and an original UK promo of the same single..

for less than the price of the reissues, nice as they are..

― Mark G, Saturday, 5 January 2013 00:09 (4 months ago) Permalink

.. on ebay.

― Mark G, Saturday, 5 January 2013 00:10 (4 months ago) Permalink

huh, I don't think I've ever listened to the mono version (unless it's the Rhino or w/e version w/a clear spine that came out on CD w/bonus trax five years ago or so). I always think of Autumn's Child as one of those listen-to-it-when-you-get-a-new-pair-of-headphones jams that testifies to the aural satisfaction of dramatic-sixties-panning, like I can't really even imagine it in Mono (or can imagine it being different-different in a way I can't with like some new Beatles reish or w/e).

― kristof-profiting-from-a-childs-illiteracy.html (schlump), Saturday, 5 January 2013 00:13 (4 months ago) Permalink

One of my great regrets is getting rid of my old mono Safe As Milk CD (I think the label was One Way Records) when the stereo Rhino CD reissue came out. I don't like the hard-panned approach they went with on that one.

― o. nate, Saturday, 5 January 2013 00:54 (4 months ago) Permalink

this one?

http://www.discogs.com/Captain-Beefheart-Zig-Zag-Wanderer-The-O-Collection/release/1849216

Mark G, I am guessing that the singles you refer to are in stereo, not mono. The fact that these new ones are in mono is the main draw here.

― sleeve, Saturday, 5 January 2013 01:21 (4 months ago) Permalink

This one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-CAPTAIN-BEEFHEART-SAFE-AS-MILK-ONE-WAY-RECORDS-CD-/150641808707

I unloaded it for next to nothing at the time. Could kick myself.

― o. nate, Saturday, 5 January 2013 01:35 (4 months ago) Permalink

Did anyone pick up the "Bat Chain Puller" issued last year? I've yet to get it, mainly because it only appears to be available from the Zappa website and I'd rather pick it up for less money here in Europe. I've just spotted a copy on German eBay

― Duke, Saturday, 5 January 2013 17:46 (4 months ago) Permalink

I think the pye single(s) are mono. Also, the Marble Arch / pye album as well, will have to check.

― Mark G, Saturday, 5 January 2013 20:24 (4 months ago) Permalink

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